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Zarathustra
10-30-2003, 05:29 PM
I'm seeing a tremendous abuse of the cute tagline feature on this forum. I'm sure the original intent was for people to put web links, jokes, favorite movie lines, etc but never bible passages or opinions on the Iraq war, the environment, what have you.
We're all here for what? For Lightwave. For whatever reason we use Lightwave and love seeing other's work, learning from their techniques, and just being around other 'wavers. Now, there has been issues of flame wars and I think most of us would certainly like to see that behavior extinguished; yet, no one sees the potential problem of having a provocative tagline.

Am I alone in seeing this as a problem?

I think it's all well and good to post your ideology in a general forum, but seeing stuff about Bush or "the liberal media" when I'm enjoying a thread on someone's great new imagery is just wrong and it sours the artist's work as well. It's tantamont to hijacking the thread.

Jimzip
10-30-2003, 05:58 PM
Hear hear.
Now lock the thread!


Jimzip :D

prospector
10-30-2003, 07:46 PM
absolutly!!

Matt
10-31-2003, 02:04 AM
some tags do seem a bit 'intense'! ;)

Lightwolf
10-31-2003, 03:28 AM
Before the thread gets locked ;)
I might be on my own here, but ... I don't really mind, as long as it stays subtle and doesn't (visually) detract from the message.

After all "It is in poor taste to use this forum for spouting religious or sociopolitical viewpoints" who is to judge on taste?

Cheers,
Mike - stay tuned for the ad ;)

hrgiger
10-31-2003, 04:32 AM
I agree Zarathrusta. I personally think that any pc bashing or mac bashing taglines shouldn't be allowed, I've seen that one start more then a few arguments. It's not that I'm for censorship but I just hate it when a thread gets hijacked and becomes a mac vs. pc argument become someone put in a tagline like that. I generally bite my tongue when I see them but you can't expect everyone to do that.

Matt
10-31-2003, 04:41 AM
I think the worst offender has to be LightWolf, the thought of sheep inheriting the grass really disturbs me and keeps me awake at night!

;)

Matt
10-31-2003, 04:43 AM
actually, althought some do spout off a bit, I'm not really bothered at all when I think about it!

Lightwolf
10-31-2003, 04:45 AM
rotfl... he, he, he.... :D
Actually, this is a quote from a song by james (anybody remember them? late 80s, great band) about religion, and esp. tv evangelists.
I plead guilty under the "religious viewpoint" act ;)

Cheers,
Mike - Matt, have some warm beer, that _should_ put you to sleep :p

Matt
10-31-2003, 04:47 AM
:eek: Warm beer eurgh!

hrgiger
10-31-2003, 05:40 AM
James is great, but I would have used a line from Laid.;)

Zarathustra
10-31-2003, 07:13 AM
Well, if in the middle of my posting I started going off on the, say, California Recall then I'm labelled an A-hole; but, if I make the same remarks in my tagline then I'm immune. That's total BS.

I've been butting heads with NT over this topic. They told me:
"The whole POINT of taglines is that they're 'optional reading'."
then when I expressed my opinion of all that recently they deleted my tagline.

I mean, what kind of statement does that make? Oh it's optional and you just have to learn to ignore it - oh wait, you can't say THAT...

Lightwolf
10-31-2003, 07:31 AM
Hi Zarathustra...
Well, if you rant about the Recall, and you do it in General Discussion, I think that's fine with almost everyone around here (just look at the long winded war thread, which flames on and off).
If you go off topic on any thread, you abuse it (just as Matt and I did a couple of posts ago), and the question is where the tolerance level is.
The same goes for taglines as well I guess, except that everyone knows they can be off topic (just as your avatar is, or your member description for that matter).
It is a completely different matter if the tagline is offensive, but that is a question of taste.
I don't know what you had in your tagline, so I can't really judge on NTs decision, however, from all that has been going on in the forum (especially this year), I've seen no action so far that I thought was out of proportion.
I guess, the main problem with taglines is that they are not a discussion topic, so someone who might be offended can't reply as he can to a normal post.
my 2 cents...
Cheers,
Mike

Jim_C
10-31-2003, 08:17 AM
Its the First Ammendment,

Don't like it, turn it off.

Zarathustra
10-31-2003, 11:00 AM
Its the First Ammendment,

Don't like it, turn it off.

Yeah, I know. I had a hard time with this issue. I guess what's sad is you can't expect everyone to have basic common sense. Chances are you're not gonna wear a t-shirt that says "Bush sucks" to a job interview or one that says "down with the liberal media" to a wedding, etc. That's all freedom of speech but common sense tells you to pick the right moments to express your beliefs.

<sigh> Perhaps the only answer is to turn off the tags in the prefs. That's sad because you now lose ALL of them, including those with links and what not.

Jim_C
10-31-2003, 11:20 AM
I do agree about the abuse. It is risiculous and only lowers the perceived mentality of the person tagging such ridiculous things, but as they saying goes..
"I may not agree with what you are saying, but I agree with the right for you to say it"


jim


ps..being mostly a Toaster dude from over on the other side of the forums I'll have to say, you LW guys are characters. More personality in mosts posts.

Steve Thompson
10-31-2003, 11:32 AM
"Don't make me choose between my God and you because you just can't win!"

Marge Simpson :D

hrgiger
10-31-2003, 12:10 PM
Ok, except that it has been stated before that these forums are not about free speech and the first amendment doesn't hold much weight here. It is up to the moderators of this forum to monitor speech to ensure that people are following the rules of the boards and not the constitution of the United States.
If someone is using a tagline that starts flamewars, then it's the moderator's responsibility to kill it, IMHO.

Zarathustra
10-31-2003, 12:25 PM
I'm with you, hr. I think what steams me is the lack of guidelines by NT. I think they have to step up and spell out rules for this nonsense. It's their house, afterall.

When I discussed this matter, they had no idea there were rules posted (if you click 'Report this post to a moderator' you get the 3 no-nos). Then since they said I should just ignore others tags I posted a meany to get a rise out of them and it worked. I don't like having had done that but they don't seem to respond unless there's a fire. I can list other instances in the past (which I had no part of) where this has happened.

I think you can't cry about your guests messing up your house if you don't set rules before they enter.

Jim_C
10-31-2003, 12:56 PM
>>If someone is using a tagline that starts flamewars, then it's the moderator's responsibility to kill it, IMHO.

I hear ya, but maybe it's the responsibilty of the person reading to realize it is what it is. Free speech being exercised in a controlled forum by someone with different views, and not to take it so personally or to heart.
Is it not the person's fault who responds to the tagline for starting the flame?
If all who read taglines, said 'OK, I disagree with that, and as a matter of fact its rude BUT I will not respond because this is a forum about other things' than the tag line would become moot and would probably even disappear.

Zarathustra
10-31-2003, 01:06 PM
Well I was never one for 'turning the other cheek'.
How many times to you need for this priviledge to be abused? Once? Twice? Indefinitely?

Jim_C
10-31-2003, 01:10 PM
:D
Good luck with the cause. Peace Out!

hrgiger
10-31-2003, 01:11 PM
So what you're saying is Jim_C is that I should be able to make racist statements too because it's up to the people reading it to decide that my opinion is not worth them getting upset over. I mean, it would be my right as an american to like only white people and hate all other races and I should be allowed to express those views as long as I wasn't breaking any laws and that would be a-ok with you? Can we expect everyone not take it too personally or take it to heart then? I mean, they're just different views right?
My point is, everyone has their buttons no matter how trivial they are and there are bound to be some flaming over it. Perhaps the moderators should see a potential flamewar in the making and decide it's not worth it.

Jim_C
10-31-2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by hrgiger
So what you're saying is Jim_C is that I should be able to make racist statements too because it's up to the people reading it to decide that my opinion is not worth them getting upset over. I mean, it would be my right as an american to like only white people and hate all other races and I should be allowed to express those views as long as I wasn't breaking any laws and that would be a-ok with you? Can we expect everyone not take it too personally or take it to heart then? I mean, they're just different views right?



Yes.
Sometimes unfortunately, Yes.
In the big sense of the world yes.

But your last statement sums it up here
"Perhaps the moderators should see a potential flamewar in the making and decide it's not worth it."

Until that happens, exercise the first in good taste.

lone
10-31-2003, 08:48 PM
some people feel they just HAVE to make a political statement in everything they do - i have a friend who does that. it is really, really, really annoying. they don't seem to realize that they end up getting written off by everyone else as having a one-track mind. SUBTLETY - it's a word, look it up!

Zarathustra
10-31-2003, 10:13 PM
Perhaps the moderators should see a potential flamewar in the making and decide it's not worth it

I guess that's ultimately what I'm looking for. You can't count on common sense (ironic that "common" is exactly what it's not) so I think guidelines have to be established so that it's VERY CLEAR when someone's behaving incorrectly instead of random judgement calls by the moderators.

colkai
11-03-2003, 08:00 AM
I do think it is a problem.
I hate, as you say, reading about a great tip or a crit. on an image only to have sig lines offend me because of their forcing of folks own ideals on everyone else. Hey, what if I agree with the war, or I want to announce my preference for the occult - is that acceptable. Probably not, (btw these may *not* be my actual preferences - just making a point).

Whilst turning of tags does remove it, it also removes useful links and humorous tags, which sometimes help get ya through the day, or at least make ya chuckle. ;)

I think the simple truth is, if one was to write the same statement in every post they made, would it be blocked? If so, the same *should* apply to the tagline.
Just my 2p
OK yeah - it's "big brother", but these are moderated forums, otherwise I could cuss and decry folks under "free speech". I can't so a little 'level playing field' would be nice.

It may seem like a trivial thing, but you have to question the attitude that folks feel the need to force their perceptions.
Of course, being an old-timer, I always thought sigs were for funnies anyway. :D

Zarathustra
11-03-2003, 08:11 AM
I think the simple truth is, if one was to write the same statement in every post they made, would it be blocked? If so, the same *should* apply to the tagline.

That's perhaps the best definition so far - and I'm jealous I didn't write it. :mad:

Rei
11-03-2003, 01:52 PM
I agree with you, must be something up today. I see this place as a area for talk on LW, Toast and NT itself.

Now it would be boring as hell to have no personalityies here, they are what make a board alive, but they must be the right ones.

NT arnt afraid to ban people for overstepping the barriors, but Post Restrictions should be used to warn people of 'bad' behaviour

Just a thought, from a lil' more wary me.