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geo_n
10-01-2012, 09:58 PM
Some excellent renders.
http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23996
http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23997

Blog
http://render.otoy.com/newsblog/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9xwj6qsv88o

geo_n
10-01-2012, 10:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sWckCMfMi2Y


Any chance we see a plugin for lw.
This looks much better than the other gpu renderers out there.

erikals
10-02-2012, 12:37 AM
Maybe we need a kickstarter project for a LW-Octane plugin ?

nice instancing btw > http://render.otoy.com/newsblog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/MultiScatter41.jpg

erikals
10-02-2012, 01:23 AM
not sure what this is though > www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZb-oX1GPck#t=7m40s

medzo
10-02-2012, 03:04 AM
that would be nice to know what new renderers are coming to lightwave...

battery555
10-02-2012, 04:24 AM
Maybe we need a kickstarter project for a LW-Octane plugin ?
Been waiting for this to happen for the longest time. Yes, integrated with LW and possibly render LW sub patch objects like LW renderer. Render from freeze model is quite a pain.

erikals
10-02-2012, 05:45 AM
not sure what this is though > www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZb-oX1GPck#t=7m40s

this could be > Octane / Vray / LuxRender...

hard to say...

geo_n
10-03-2012, 12:59 AM
Maybe we need a kickstarter project for a LW-Octane plugin ?

nice instancing btw > http://render.otoy.com/newsblog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/MultiScatter41.jpg

They are looking for lw programmers to port it to lw and they're willing to pay.


That car animation is all CG
rendered with Octane for Max with instancing support
car model from evermotion scene
MadCar plugin animation
1280x720
600 frames
2x GTX590
25 hours
subframe motion blur

That's fast for that quality. 2.4min per frame. Bad thing is price of two gtx 590 is similar to price of two core I7 desktop which is more useful than dedicated gpu renderbox. Price of octane for max though is cheap. 99euro max plugin plus octane standalone total less than 200 euro. I might ask the boss to buy it for play.

erikals
10-03-2012, 04:03 AM
"They are looking for lw programmers to port it to lw and they're willing to pay."

think i'm gonna wait for this first, see what it is > www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZb-oX1GPck#t=7m40s
it might even be an Octane plugin, who knows... :]

tyrot
10-03-2012, 04:53 AM
i will go insane soon if nobody answers OTOY's call!.. Erikal - a kick start project would be so cool. I dont know how much is required for such task? ...

There are so many OCTANE haters here but it is all crazy. I rendered impossible projects in record time. If i still earn money from LW it is because of OCTANE.. Speed is the only thing i can offer over VRAY * directlighting in OCTANE is super for exterior video renders.

I am ready to contribute ... guys please.. :(

kopperdrake
10-03-2012, 05:08 AM
Can anyone show an example of an exterior animation using Octane renderer that they think is as good, if not better, than the default LightWave renderer? I'm very curious because, though the GTX590 cards aren't cheap, on a reasonable animation they would pay for themselves quite quickly.

I should clarify, when I say exterior, I mean a typical arch viz project. I'd just love to know how long a typical HD frame would take to render with MC bouncing everywhere.

tyrot
10-03-2012, 05:19 AM
kopper i ll send message soon...

geo_n
10-12-2012, 08:27 PM
tyrot - what gpu you use for your octane commercial projects? I upgraded to a low budget kepler 640gt that has 384 cuda cores and two gig mem. Not looking to use this card for paid projects its pretty low spec.

The latest build is OctaneRender Beta 3.03 test. Hope it still works with the old lw plugin.
Thought I'd try playing with octane again and see how it compares to blender cycles(which looks super now)

erikals
10-12-2012, 08:48 PM
what about LuxRender though, which uses both CPU and GPU... ?

geo_n
10-12-2012, 09:50 PM
There's zero development for lw in luxrender.

erikals
10-13-2012, 05:38 AM
LuxRender is open source, and use both CPU and GPU, making it the fastest alternative,
why not integrate the free LuxRender into Lightwave... (?)

the LuxRender method also makes it possible to render high-poly-count scenes

LuxRender Source Code > http://www.luxrender.net/en_GB/source_code

interiors >
http://www.luxrender.net/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=10768&g2_serialNumber=2
http://www.luxrender.net/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=15257&g2_serialNumber=2
http://www.luxrender.net/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7823&g2_serialNumber=3
http://www.luxrender.net/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=16300&g2_serialNumber=2

AD owns part of Octane anyway, so we can pretty much predict where that is going.
(the modo guys got an offer they couldn't refuse, this will happen to Octane too)

another thread on LuxRender > http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?126013-Lightwave-and-LuxRender-0-9

and yet another > http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?112271-So-I-guess-we-re-SOL-for-LuxRender-then

unfinished exporters... :/
exporter 1 > http://www.luxrender.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=303
exporter 2 > http://www.luxrender.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1310

erikals
10-13-2012, 06:38 AM
Indigo looks cool but at €600, maybe a bit steep.
at that price Vray would make more sense...

CPU-GPU Indigo Renderer > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PccWJ-zxlQw
nudity > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RwmiCOqIR0

unfinished exporter... > http://www.indigorenderer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=641&start=30

xes
10-14-2012, 05:29 AM
The big problem with the GPU render is the memory, all works fine if your scene can be loaded into the graphic card memory. When you exceed this one, your render is dead. And the price of a GFX card with 4Gb or more, is very expensive!

dsol
10-14-2012, 08:36 AM
GPU rendering is a very tricky beast to get right. I'm quite interested in hybrid solutions though, like using the GPU to precalculate light maps. This does put a lot of limitations on the types of shaders you use (it's a more fixed-pipeline approach), but it is fast. I seem to remember reading that Weta used that approach on Avatar.

Bimdan
10-17-2012, 05:06 PM
I do hope some GPU or GPU+CPU optimised rendering/VPR comes to LW

Here's another one I've been looking at
http://www.randomcontrol.com/arion2

erikals
10-17-2012, 05:36 PM
hm, great price! €200

...would you know how it compares to the LuxRender? (posted above)

drag-n-drop textures looks nice > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-aKiNMzf24

Titus
10-17-2012, 06:24 PM
I've visited an independent Hollywood studio, they are rendering their movie using several nvidia cards and octane. The rendering is fast and good but they lack motion blur, so a little hack is needed.

Since Octane reads OBJ files, I really don't know why there's no exporter for LW.

geo_n
10-17-2012, 10:49 PM
LuxRender is open source, and use both CPU and GPU, making it the fastest alternative,
why not integrate the free LuxRender into Lightwave... (?)



Yes it looked good. But its really too bad there's too few lw userbase so interest faded away.

geo_n
10-17-2012, 10:56 PM
I've visited an independent Hollywood studio, they are rendering their movie using several nvidia cards and octane. The rendering is fast and good but they lack motion blur, so a little hack is needed.

Since Octane reads OBJ files, I really don't know why there's no exporter for LW.

There was an exporter made by walfridson. I tried to do some test animation with it the problem was the voxelation process needed to export lw scenes to octane takes time. Some early test I made

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4WX67JHh8A

If this was a real plugin for lightwave then it would really rock. Octane devs are looking for programmers to do a lw plugin version and willing to pay. There's even a poser plugin in development so its really a shame lw doesn't have one.

geo_n
10-17-2012, 11:01 PM
And another test. It rendered fast with an old 8800gts card but the voxelization process made it just as long to render like lw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4D7RjPU72g

Titus
10-18-2012, 10:01 AM
LuxRender is open source, and use both CPU and GPU, making it the fastest alternative,
why not integrate the free LuxRender into Lightwave... (?)

the LuxRender method also makes it possible to render high-poly-count scenes


unfinished exporters... :/
exporter 1 > http://www.luxrender.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=303
exporter 2 > http://www.luxrender.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1310

That second exporter is an Lscript, it must be a nightmare to get anything from that. The first one looks good, though.

In several ocasions I've offered the source code for my LW->RIB exporter to be used as a base for luxrender. I'm confident someone more skilled may get a more interactive exporter.

erikals
10-18-2012, 10:10 AM
NT, just integrate the LuxRender into Layout already... heck, it's free! :boogiedow

tyrot
10-18-2012, 11:33 AM
Nt hello look here! Hello!!! Octane exporter! Please nt !!!

Rayek
10-19-2012, 03:51 PM
This looks nice as well: new Thea GPU render engine. And both CPU biased and unbiased engines are built-in, materials are shared across the different render engines, so no adjustments are necessary. I hope OpenCL GPU rendering will be supported as well - I would be very interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZUKi8tlycs

And why, oh why, again no connection to Lightwave available? I believe they are looking for developers to help them with that, but I kinda wonder why Lightwave is left out once more. :-( Is it that the user base of LW developers is too small?

Modo, Rhino, SKetchup, Blender, Max, softimage, etc, all integrated in Thea render. No lightwave, though, and Maya seems to be missing too (well, it does have its fair share of external rendering options).

What gives?

erikals
10-19-2012, 04:14 PM
note that he says "other renderers" not "another renderer"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZb-oX1GPck#t=7m40s

so there should be several,
let's see...

m.d.
10-19-2012, 05:25 PM
i would keep an eye on thea render....
probably the most advanced out there...unbiased/biased and soon to be GPU with various algorithms....

if i could get my $100 back from octane, I would put it towards thea

erikals
10-26-2012, 03:32 PM
another interesting one

FluidRay RT
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=1077049

m.d.
10-26-2012, 07:10 PM
nice find

Titus
10-27-2012, 10:02 AM
It looks you need to build your scene inside FluidRay, this is a major roadblock. But the more the merrier.

Pavlov
10-27-2012, 10:34 AM
just curious, i missed this thread.
Recently i saw a iRay demo and it was impressive. Maxwell quality in seconds into max, and perfectly integrated.
Honestly i'd like a lot to have a GPU engine into LW - along with improved shading, we still dont have a full BSDF node and this is a shame.
And no, i dont think integrating first free GPU engine around is a good idea. I'd prefer to pay more and get the best on market. Or get a good proprietary GPU engine.
Quality demand is so high lately, that a "good" engine is not enough.

Paolo

erikals
10-27-2012, 04:18 PM
what price is iRay though, is it free?... i searched quite a bit, but couldn't find any info...

tyrot
10-27-2012, 04:36 PM
paolo :) it is enough - it is so fast...thank you ...
check octane forums - gallery section for super fast and 100 times better than LW's own native rendering - Direct lighting renders

geo_n
10-28-2012, 02:37 AM
kepler 660 ti seems to be bang for the buck cuda card. Not so power hungry too and cheap.

Pavlov
10-28-2012, 04:47 AM
iRay is nVidia's proprietary engine and it's free with 3dsMAX - you get it with latest releases. It's not sold as standalone afaik, and anyway standalone is not the way to go - integrate or nothing.
Octane is awesome - i have a license - but not useable with LW, obj export workflow is ridiculous at best. Your scene is exported as unique OBJ and you have to bould everything into Octane's gui , which is nearly unuseable. I stress this, today standards are so high and timeframes for productions are so tight, that you cant play around. An external engine is not a choice, at leas t here. Octane is probably one of the best GPU engines around, but you know, Autodesk will make it hard to get it integrated into LW. Unless NT manages a relationship miracle there, it's better if NT codes one on their own, or with a tight cooperation with a 3rd part developer (Worley ?). I'm not a coder but reading here and there it seems unbiased engines are not hard to code - not as an advanced biased engine like Kray or Vray. Afterall, you see how many unbiased engines are popping out (CPU or GPU).

Paolo

geo_n
10-28-2012, 06:24 AM
Ototoy is open to create native plugin for lw. Problem is
1. Are there enough users in lw for plugin developer to profit.
2. Are there enough users who are willing to pay for such plugin
3. Is lw userbase still a good platform for design and archiviz people who use CAD programs that are potential clients for octane

Its a shame but I think there's already some development for native plugin for c4d, blender and poser.

Pavlov
10-28-2012, 09:07 AM
eh. The endless story. The same which affects Vray thing, and i guess many other engines or plugins.
So again here's my pov: or NT does the move itself and get in touch with them to develop the plugin - eventually, yes, paying - or simply we'll stay here guessing with nothing in hands, while other app gets the tools and more users will be attracted to other softs.


EDIT - yes i think octane is so cheap and good that i would guess many users will buy it, not just archviz ones. Afterall anyone has to render, sooner or later, and a GPU engine like Octane is universally good.
LW needs to catch both GPU and Vray in a short time, for different reasons. GPU is a production boost, Vray is the industry standard. Not having access to these harms both LW and its users.

Paolo

erikals
10-28-2012, 10:16 AM
...it seems unbiased engines are not hard to code - not as an advanced biased engine like Kray or Vray. Afterall, you see how many unbiased engines are popping out (CPU or GPU).

i've noticed this too, there are so many of them emerging... (how many are there now... 10?... 20?...)
hope to see a LW integrated unbiased render engine in one soon...

erikals
10-28-2012, 10:22 AM
an interesting read from VFXguide, see the render engine notes from Mike Seymour under > Challenges and Summary

http://www.fxguide.com/featured/rob-powers-the-guy-at-the-wheel-of-the-new-newtek-lightwave

Pavlov
10-28-2012, 11:35 AM
yes, interesting.. let's see, hopefully soon.

Paolo

geo_n
10-31-2012, 09:49 AM
Another unbiased renderer
http://corona-renderer.com/

tyrot
10-31-2012, 04:29 PM
come on NT - just send an email to OTOY -it is not that hard... lemme help you

Hi OTOY

It is NT.. Our some GPU rendering freaks want us to export Lightwave Scene files to OCTANE directly - What do you need?

Best and Fast..

See that is it..

Just like NT's new AE link, Zbrush link , FBX export, Unity link - Octane Link would be very very cool. OTOY soon will announce their GPU render farms - so things will be pretty fast down there .. come on !



soon they will announce their GPU render farm service as well...

gristle
11-01-2012, 12:42 PM
come on NT - just send an email to OTOY -it is not that hard... lemme help you

Hi OTOY

It is NT.. Our some GPU rendering freaks want us to export Lightwave Scene files to OCTANE directly - What do you need?

l...

Would'nt you want them to go one step further than exporting scenes to Octane and actually integrate the renderer into LW as they are with other programes? This is the main reason I won't touch Octane - having to export then setup in the standalone application.

geo_n
11-02-2012, 01:03 AM
Yes the export time is a killer. A complex scene would export for minutes voxelizing. So the rendertime saved becomes useless. A native plugin would be best.

Pavlov
11-02-2012, 04:13 AM
i agree. In production we just cant use anything that is not inside Layout.
These days process is not reducible to model-surface-light-render. It's more model-surface-light-render-light-model-surface-render-render-light-model-render-model-light-render, and so forward and backward.
Thats why an engine outside host app is just a toy. And that's why it's so important Lw gets the largest number possible of engines on the market, btw starting from industry standard ones.

Paolo

geo_n
11-02-2012, 05:30 AM
kickstarter project?

tyrot
11-02-2012, 05:49 AM
Octane has an amazingly fast surfacing tool. And you make it just once .. make your own .OCS file. And all your related texture-surfacing data is there. All you need to export is your OBJ with not changing surface name.

I hope Worley comes with a cool CUDAish new Renderer. It is time. Otherwise give me Octane for LW please..

Pavlov
11-02-2012, 05:50 AM
what's a kickstarter project ? sorry :)

geo_n
11-02-2012, 08:46 PM
what's a kickstarter project ? sorry :)

User funded project. So someone can start funding for octane lw plugin.

erikals
11-02-2012, 09:07 PM
think i'm loosing interest in an external render, integrated is the new way everybody is following.

(Blender, Max, Maya,... etc)

Svenart
11-03-2012, 10:29 AM
Better integration of octanerender into lightwave would be fantastic.

jwiede
11-03-2012, 02:13 PM
(never mind)

m.d.
11-03-2012, 04:10 PM
well i for one would contribute to a kickstarter....
there is a few guys here that could do it, if we could make it financially viable

Pavlov
11-03-2012, 06:33 PM
i'd contribute too. I think if we are many, the cost per-person could be quite low.

Paolo

Svenart
11-03-2012, 07:04 PM
+1

tyrot
11-03-2012, 07:56 PM
+111111
Ok so who is volunteer? I guess DPONT can handle this project.. what do you say?

meatycheesyboy
11-03-2012, 08:10 PM
I was reading the Kickstarter faq and it seems like it can be a little tricky for software. To start a software project, you have to have a working prototype before you can ask for funding. So, we'd need to secure a developer and have them do some work up front to get a partially functional version before Kickstarter would accept the project.

geo_n
11-03-2012, 08:51 PM
Ah thats too bad. I think Lightwolf was interested to develop a thirdparty connection to a renderer but mentioned that it would rather be vray than octane since its the same amount of work. Time and cost to develop something like that would not be trivial and given the current number of lw user base I think he said its not feasable. It would need to sell 1000 units atleast. 1000 units in lw land is a lot.

battery555
11-03-2012, 11:12 PM
+1if there's Mac version I'm in too. :D

Pavlov
11-04-2012, 04:45 AM
well... 1000 units are a lot, but Lw has more than 30K licenses sold (so i seem to remember). An excellent engine is not like a volumetric plugin to make explosions, or a nice charanim tool, or whatever. I think you cant compare an engine sales with other plugin's.
Sooner or later you have to render, if you do 3d. And i guess something like Octane or Vray would be in the interest of nearly everyone using LW professionally. We already debated this, some thinks 100 are a lot. I think that one of these engines could sell much more than 1000, once integration is good.

Paolo

COBRASoft
11-04-2012, 07:19 AM
So, what would the contribution price be? 5, 10, 50? We can only guess for the moment. If lightwolf or dpont is interested in such a project, they have to say a price first. Once they have the requested amount, they can start developing. If they would 'fail', they have to pay back some amount (or all) to the contributors. Still interested? I'm in for a payment :)!

geo_n
11-04-2012, 07:40 AM
Agree, everyone has to render no matter what, that was my point in another thread. :D
So I am pro vray, pro octane, pro kray, pro fprime. Lw native renderer is great but choices are better not to mention the industry standard benefit.

Pavlov
11-04-2012, 07:47 AM
same POV :)

Paolo

silviotoledo
11-04-2012, 07:09 PM
If OTOY is looking for a LW developer for creating the plugin, can't Walfridson get the position?

It seems octane is really fast! Hope newtek will also take a look at this and port a solution.

m.d.
11-04-2012, 10:55 PM
Yup I definately in....whether through kick starter or just some mechanism, I will gladly pay upfront for a competent developer to do an octane plugin workflow.....
If we can twist somebody's arm to do it.....

gristle
11-05-2012, 11:19 AM
I'd imagine the developer would want to be in for the long haul as well. Both LW and Octane are constantly changing, one more so than the other.
Don't forget Octane is still in beta (as far as I can tell?). I remember way back when they said they would get the standalone to V1 before looking at integrating - nothing like user pressure!

tyrot
11-05-2012, 02:22 PM
gristle.... octane v1 is very very close...

m.d.
11-05-2012, 11:50 PM
they are up to release candidate now....
should be soon

Hail
11-06-2012, 03:52 AM
I m very interested in this too and wouldnt mind digging out some cash for a kickstarter project if one surfaces.
V ray would also be an interesting consideration ;)

juanjgon
11-11-2012, 01:50 PM
http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24959

:)

-Juanjo

amath
11-11-2012, 05:23 PM
This looks good.
How long before this is ready.
Instances and walk throughs?