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starbase1
09-26-2012, 04:23 AM
I am getting into my first proper music video, and it's going rather well so far, though of course the devil is in the detail.

One of the tricky bits is that I need to add elements that pulse in time with the music, and of course it's not so convenient as to have beats that fall exactly on a frame.

I had previously tried working with the option to lock everything to integer frame numbers off, but the project rapidly degenerated into an unstable, hard to manage mess.

I don't need EVERYTHING to have fractional key frames, but it would be really handy for what I have in mind to be able to make a luminous surface pulse like that, or a glow. Anyone know if there's a good simple way to get what I am after, or a good method of staying organised with non integer frames enabled all over the shop?

Nick

RebelHill
09-26-2012, 04:34 AM
change teh scene frame rate as you go. Keep it in multiples of the actual rate for ease of management.

starbase1
09-26-2012, 05:52 AM
change teh scene frame rate as you go. Keep it in multiples of the actual rate for ease of management.

I don't think I understand this - a variable frame rate sounds like a nightmare to organise?
Nick

RebelHill
09-26-2012, 08:04 AM
Im assuming that you're wanting some stuff to be keyed at regular frame intervals... but certain things to be able to key on fractional frames... One of the main headaches I find if just using straight fractional frames is dealing with the decimal numbers of frame numbers, as well as ofc having things keyed at different fractions. So basically... just animate away at whatever your normal framerate is, then when animating something that needs a finer time scale... just increase your scene fps, key as required in the "finer" timeline... switch back. In many ways its really no different that switching in and out of fractional frames mode as you go... the main reason to do it the fps way is that your fractional keys will all occupy the same "fractions" of frames if you switch your fps to always be a multiple of your intended, final fps.

starbase1
09-26-2012, 09:08 AM
OK, I think I understand now. From what you say, dropping the frame rate should create fractional frame keys in the envelopes as it scales down.

Thing is, I require it to stay in line with a rapid beat for several minutes - this will quite literally mean 4 digit precision. Is it practical or possible to work at an FPS in the thousands, even temporarily?

fram
09-26-2012, 10:07 AM
Hi starbase1, unfortunately i can't help you with your problem but...can i ask you how to manage sound in lw?
I've try to make something but i found it very painful for my head.
you load the sound in the graph editor? I really would like to know a good workflow.

Thank you, sorry for bombing your post.:)

starbase1
09-26-2012, 10:27 AM
No problem!

No - I don't know how to do that. I'd also like to know how to get some feed from a sound file, so I could automatically use (say) volume to drive an LW parameter...

I'm just trying to make elements I can combine and slide around to match the audio in my video editing prog, (I'm using Vegas...)

Ryan Roye
09-26-2012, 10:29 AM
You can use Stretch and Snap keys to help you time your animation depending on what you are animating. You can make it so that this plugin works on envelopes, but it must be attached to a null in 3d space. If you set it to "None" mode, it will create fractional keyframes but will time your animation *exactly* how you want it... if you set it to "Round", it will snap keyframes to the nearest whole number (NOTE: if you speed up animation and the keyframes are too dense and you use "Round" mode, overlapping will result in erased keyframes).

Here is a tutorial on how to use this time-modifying plugin:

Tanadrine Studios Lightwave Tutorials: Slow Motion Effect (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhzlt-edr1k) (YouTube)

Plugin download: http://www.lwplugindb.com/Plugins/098c288f/StretchSnapKeys0_2_0.zip

Give it a try, you might find this plugin handy. Would be cool if it had an undo function though.


One other option that may help you with the beats is to attach nulls to motion mixer. One thing about motion mixer i've always liked is how easy it is to adjust the number of frames in the animation you attach to it.

dwburman
09-26-2012, 01:32 PM
You CAN drive an envelope with an audio file. I'm not at my computer right now, so i can't look up what it's called or where it's located, but i'd start by looking in the channel modifiers in the graph editor.

starbase1
09-26-2012, 01:57 PM
There was an old one years back, that was absolutely uselress...

dwburman
09-26-2012, 03:08 PM
Here it is: Audio Channel in the Modifier section of the Graph Editor. It's a simple amplitude thing, so the louder your sound is the higher the value will be. If you want, say, a bass drum to drive one thing and a snare to drive another, you'll have to use an audio editing app (like the free Audacity app) to isolate that particular frequency using an EQ or notch filter... or just get isolated instrument tracks from the band.

108128

Ryan Roye
09-26-2012, 03:15 PM
William's audio channel modifier tutorial. This specific one covers a muzzle flash using a light, but you can just as easily apply it to other aspects of an object.

If you're going this route, it will definitely help to have the various aspects of the music chopped up into different layers so you can use this method effectively.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMap1jQe2Wc

starbase1
09-26-2012, 04:05 PM
Thanks for the suggestions - I can see I must work through some of these at the weekend!

For those who are interested, the current version (minus pulsing in time etc) is on youtube:

http://youtu.be/r09wvQG__0I

Its 1080p resolution, four and a bit minutes long.

The album title is Psychedelic Voyage, and the musician has already approved the cover images, which are heavily sixties trippy dippy hippy!
All graphics done in Lightwave.

Things I already know I need to work on:


The camera movement needs smoothing out in the first slitscan rainbow sequence.
The hoops that pass over the viewpoint are too quick, and need thickening up. I wanted something that would 'bridge' the transitions, is this a good idea?
The final shot with Earth is basically a placeholder - I want a thinnner crescent, a rotating earth, and a low sun at the top of the Earth going behind it, (to match the track title of 'Sundown')



I'm toying with the idea of reflective chrome figures moving through at some points, (well it doesn't get much more cheesy 1960's than "Psychedelic Voyage"!)

Feedback would be VERY welcome as Ive not done a promotional music video for a new album before!
Nick

Ryan Roye
09-26-2012, 08:44 PM
Another tip if you have fractional frames to deal with:

-If you go into EDIT >> General options, and check "fractional frames"...

-Now, you can hold shift and press left/right to jump to fractional frames for editing. Pressing left/right will still scrub integer-frames, but mouse movement will cycle sub-frames. When done messing with fractional keyframes, I usually just tick it back off.

Obviously, you want to try not to go overboard with fractional frames, but knowing how to deal with them as needed helps.

starbase1
09-30-2012, 03:14 AM
Thanks for all the tips.

An updated version of the video, before I tackle the tricky stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUqdidtdyoE

Nick

bobakabob
09-30-2012, 08:46 AM
Beautiful homage to 2001. I've been messing with techniques to achieve a similar effect in LW for ages but nothing as good as this. Any tips, especially the rainbow kaleidoscope hues?

starbase1
09-30-2012, 11:30 AM
Beautiful homage to 2001. I've been messing with techniques to achieve a similar effect in LW for ages but nothing as good as this. Any tips, especially the rainbow kaleidoscope hues?

I've got some samples in the resources at Foundatioin 3d, search for slitscan. The round ones are basically the same effect applied to a tube.

In brief though, for the flat slitscan effect:


Model two large quads, a few hundred metres on a side, a few metres apart. Polygons should face in (or make them double sided if lazy)
Position the camera between them facing along the Z axis.
Apply a whizzy surface - mine where done mainly using rainbow gradients applied to an underlying texture.
Stretch the texture along the Z axis (assuming your camera points that way)
Attach the texture origin to a null
Pull the null along the camera's line of sight - with a fully 3d texture you can also add a smaller vertical motion so the pattern changes slowly as it approaches.



Thats all there is to it!
I find IFW2 sghaders have richer otions than the provided LW functions.
Oh, and for the spinning ones, I added two mirrors at 60 degrees, exactly like a kaleidoscope, and spin them slowly.

Let me know if you get stuck.

Nick

raw-m
09-30-2012, 12:48 PM
starbase1, great stuff! Really good execution and will look great with a bit of audio interaction. Would made a brilliant bg screen projection for any live stuff they do. My only crit is that the hoops still need a little work, perhaps they are a little too bold/need more colours as they aren't quite feeling part of it at the moment. How about a radial rainbow with a bit of feather/falloff towards the centre. Even a bit of MB on what you have might work, bit of glow?

When you get a sec, can you explain your kaleidoscope a little more, I'm not quite seeing it!

Please post the final piece.

starbase1
09-30-2012, 01:11 PM
starbase1, great stuff! Really good execution and will look great with a bit of audio interaction. Would made a brilliant bg screen projection for any live stuff they do. My only crit is that the hoops still need a little work, perhaps they are a little too bold/need more colours as they aren't quite feeling part of it at the moment. How about a radial rainbow with a bit of feather/falloff towards the centre. Even a bit of MB on what you have might work, bit of glow?

When you get a sec, can you explain your kaleidoscope a little more, I'm not quite seeing it!

Please post the final piece.

The hoops are motion blurred - the only thing it did was give them darker transparent edges!

I just tried adding pulsiong lights in the corners, it time with the rhythm - they looked a bit silly unfortunately, and drifted out of ime too!
:cursin:

For the kaleidoscope.
If you understand the tunnel with teh texture moving along the inside and the camera on the axis...

Now add a shape like an extruded V, with 100% mirror on the inside of the V, positioned so the point of the V goes just around the camera.
This gives the symetrical reflections, like you see in an old fashioned kaleidoscope.
If you then slowly turn it as the textures move, this gives the slow spin on the axis of symettry.

Nick

bobakabob
09-30-2012, 03:37 PM
Many thanks for the info and resources Nick. Looking forward to trying this out - the instant feedback you get in VPR makes texturing much more interesting. Btw, if you haven't already, download Sensei's special effects files he posted in a recent forum.

starbase1
09-30-2012, 04:17 PM
Many thanks for the info and resources Nick. Looking forward to trying this out - the instant feedback you get in VPR makes texturing much more interesting. Btw, if you haven't already, download Sensei's special effects files he posted in a recent forum.

Have you got a link? That sounds handy!

Sensei
10-07-2012, 05:22 PM
Tutorials I am sending to "LW - General Techniques, Tips & Tricks"

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?130212-TrueArt-LightWave-Tutorial-Special-Effects-1-Full-HD-video

Or simply subscribe to mine YouTube Channel.