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jeric_synergy
09-22-2012, 10:45 PM
I see the looping construct "foreach" used in various lscripts, but I don't see any documentation for that in the WebHelp.

Where might I find dox for "foreach"?


Tnx.

EDIT: and an exhaustive and definitive list of LScript commands?

nickdigital
09-22-2012, 11:38 PM
It's generally accepted that dodgy's sites is the more complete lscript reference.

http://www.mikegreen.name/Lscript/Lscript%20Index.html

There are two documents references from NewTek. There's the reference and the user guide. I'd recommend looking through both as I've definitely had to do that when scripting.

jeric_synergy
09-23-2012, 08:17 AM
There are two documents references from NewTek. There's the reference and the user guide. I'd recommend looking through both as I've definitely had to do that when scripting.
Are those separate from the WebHelp (actually just html)? I seem to recall something that was pretty much the same content as the webhelp, but better organized.

The webhelp is frustrating in that it is A) incomplete, and B) not organized in a progressive or cumulative manner, it's just a big pile of factoids.


It's generally accepted that dodgy's sites is the more complete lscript reference.

http://www.mikegreen.name/Lscript/Lscript%20Index.html
NewTek should be ashamed. :devil:

Mike's site is indeed more complete than the webhelp: I found "foreach" there in seconds. Thanks for the link.

nickdigital
09-23-2012, 09:16 AM
Not sure what Web help you're talking about. The NewTek docs I have are two pdf docs. They might be the same but just in pdf. They should be in your registration downloads. Doing a Google search should find them too.

jeric_synergy
09-23-2012, 10:23 AM
Not sure what Web help you're talking about. The NewTek docs I have are two pdf docs. They might be the same but just in pdf. They should be in your registration downloads. Doing a Google search should find them too.
The help that pops up when you hit (default) F1. (NewTek/LightWave11.0/docs/Help/WebHelp/lightwave_10_help_file.htm) I checked the registration downloads yesterday-- LScript dox were not apparent as separate pdf dl's.

Do you have a specific filename? That may facilitate locating them. (EDIT: nothing found in regular install under "LScr*.pdf")(EDIT2: first pass came up with a 2002 ref by Scott Wheeler & Brian Marshall....)

Dodgy's dox seem to be a superset of the html dox I mentioned. For instance, the looping construct reference is the same, but WITH the (proper) addition of 'foreach'.

Thanks Nick.

nickdigital
09-23-2012, 10:32 AM
First two hits on Google searching for "lightwave lscript pdf"

ftp://ftp.newtek.com/products/LightWave/SDK/LScriptUserGuide.pdf
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/products/LightWave/SDK/LScriptReference.pdf

jeric_synergy
09-23-2012, 10:45 AM
Yeah, we're prolly cross posting... yes, the LScriptReference.PDF seems to be the 2002 doc by SWheeler and BMarshall.

In conjunction with Dodgy's that'll probably do: I think it would make sense for these resources to be in a sticky at the top of this particular forum, plus any others that pop up.

xchrisx
09-23-2012, 11:01 AM
I would agree the documentation should be updated in a clearer more sensible fashion. Also it would be nice if there was almost some form of community repository (whether it be on the forums or on LW website) where code could be published for others to share. I know several times I have come to the forums and after an hour of digging I find a post someone made with the code I needed. It would be cool if we could figure out a way to consolidate that stuff and put it in a more organized space.

jeric_synergy
09-23-2012, 12:16 PM
I would agree the documentation should be updated in a clearer more sensible fashion. Also it would be nice if there was almost some form of community repository (whether it be on the forums or on LW website) where code could be published for others to share. I know several times I have come to the forums and after an hour of digging I find a post someone made with the code I needed. It would be cool if we could figure out a way to consolidate that stuff and put it in a more organized space.
Yes, the organization of the HTML is severely lacking: I believe it was lifted from the PDFs, but lost their linearity in the process (!). that is: the linearity of the PDF imposed a logical progressive order that the random access nature of the html is lacking. For instance, in the html version, it's hard to know where to even start one's exploration of LScript, especially with limited programming experience.

I had hoped that LightWIKI would be more like Wikipedia and hence more of a straight reference (really, an expanded, superior, evolving version of the manuals), but they chose a different path.

LScript documentation is a bit of a dead letter, but I'm hoping that NewTek doesn't feel it's an adequate model for the more lively Python initiative, it's not. Here's NewTek's chance to do it right:

Document LightWave's Python implementation, then
put it online and
allow users to add code snippets, alternate explications, and links in a moderated manner.


For one thing, this would prevent situations like this current case, where FOREACH was apparently never documented at all. It's in Dodgy's material, but he's not even, TMK, an employee of NewTek.

iain_r
09-24-2012, 02:42 PM
You also need to read the Lscript release notes. They contain some interesting snippets that aren't covered by the pdf files. I've found a few bits in them that I've not found anywhere else. You could also try the mail archives.

Regards

Iain.

- - - Updated - - -

You also need to read the Lscript release notes. They contain some interesting snippets that aren't covered by the pdf files. I've found a few bits in them that I've not found anywhere else. You could also try the mail archives.

Regards

Iain.

jeric_synergy
09-24-2012, 02:55 PM
Thank you, iain_r. --Okay, I found the PDF files, but they are dated 2002 (dayum, that's a decade ago).

Where might these release notes be?

Here's the deal: I don't understand why everything isn't just right here (see jpg):108059

BeeVee
09-24-2012, 04:25 PM
I had hoped that LightWIKI would be more like Wikipedia and hence more of a straight reference (really, an expanded, superior, evolving version of the manuals), but they chose a different path.

No, LightWiki was always set up as a reference but Wikipedia would be nothing if it wasn't for all the people contributing to it and the same is true of LightWiki. Apart from a select few dedicated individuals, there was very little participation. Steph (OnlineRender) Scott has revitalised the site, but the wiki aspect has taken a secondary role because not enough people contributed.

B

jeric_synergy
09-24-2012, 04:45 PM
Perhaps the Wiki aspect can only be viable if it's NewTek Official Documentation, rather than a volunteer effort.

Did the wiki have the rights to use the LW manual? To me, that's the STARTING place, the full manual, and the wiki grows from that.

OnlineRender
09-24-2012, 05:27 PM
108064I can give you the exact figures on that! and Ben knows better than anyone who physically wrote for LightWiki , when we got the DB there was 210 legit users around 90 spam it takes time and effort to create a solid wiki and at most there was maybe only 10 people who actually gave solid information and spent time on the project and it was building up nicely until it shut down " I think people forgot that the wiki was nearly down for 1 year!" granted a few people had the source and I think was it glen that got it work again ? and I know Liberty also tried to get it going but couldn't get the DB to restore.
Ben fought tooth and nail to keep the wiki part the main focus and to a certain element it still is, I just convinced him that it could also be delivered in another format ...

take for example the downloads section we served 6000+ top quality and FREE models/scenes in under 3 months , we have over 200 video tutorials , we implemented CGNetwork and now sitting at 560 members and with the release of V2.0 its going to be bigger better stronger , in short LightWiki is only going to grow I have personally put in hundreds of hours and free time and spent a good few quid of my own money into making the site and I have no plans of slowing down {fact} now some users may not like the fact that I run it now and simply that is there own fault Ben called out several times for Help to get the site back up and nobody took up the offer! ...we had the site up and running and upgraded in terms of mediawiki in under 2 hours, the only reason it stayed on the .net was because I set that up quickly to test out if it was possible to restore it! the fact the .com was on a shared hosting threw a spanner in the works otherwise we would have set LightWiki and let it be,but like all good plans of mice and men... LightWiki can be anything the users want it to be, I can assure you LightWiki V2.0 will be the most advance LightWave3D website to date.

BeeVee
09-24-2012, 05:32 PM
What Steph has done with the site is nothing short of amazing and the things he has planned are going to add a new dimension to the whole thing (quide liderally folks!)... :)

B

jeric_synergy
09-24-2012, 07:57 PM
now some users may not like the fact that I run it now...
I never said that I didn't like LWiki, I think it is a very handsome site and an excellent resource. It's just not the resource that I myself am most interested in.

I think you should be compensated for your efforts on it too.

My interest is in making BeeVee's job easier and the outcome better: he already has to write the manual. That's a given.

I want to take that existing effort, and distribute the task of correcting errors and omissions, because in a document on a product as as complex as LW, there will always be errors and omissions.
Additionally, I want it centralized. I think only NTek can make that happen.
Plus I want it extensible: only a crowd can make that happen.
And I want some metrics on what doesn't work in the manual: what do users have to go back to over and over? What subject is looked up in the index most often? Only a software based document can do that.


One of the things that chaps my @ss currently is the lag time between finding an error and/or omission, and having the corrections appear in the dox. In the 21st Century, I think that should be 48 hours, tops. And users should be notified as these corrections get made.

BeeVee
09-25-2012, 03:45 AM
One of the things that chaps my @ss currently is the lag time between finding an error and/or omission, and having the corrections appear in the dox. In the 21st Century, I think that should be 48 hours, tops. And users should be notified as these corrections get made.

If errors are reported through FogBugz they get an email when I fix the problem and sometimes that's within minutes, let alone 48 hours. Any problems reported with 10 documentation are on hiatus until I revisit redoing the whole manual.

B

jeric_synergy
09-25-2012, 08:44 AM
If errors are reported through FogBugz they get an email when I fix the problem and sometimes that's within minutes, let alone 48 hours. Any problems reported with 10 documentation are on hiatus until I revisit redoing the whole manual.
B
And when do they get distributed? I'd be ecstatic if revisions were going out on a weekly basis and I'd somehow been missing the announcements all these months.

xchrisx
09-25-2012, 11:02 AM
One cool thing that I would love to see happen to the documentation is see it hosted on a Newtek server somewhere similar to what maya's documentation did. It is great to have that reference without having to install it for every version of LW especially if you keep upgrading the dot releases. It would also allow for updates to the documentation be corrected faster, rather than waiting until the next release to see the updated docs.

jeric_synergy
09-25-2012, 11:23 AM
One cool thing that I would love to see happen to the documentation is see it hosted on a Newtek server somewhere similar to what maya's documentation did. It is great to have that reference without having to install it for every version of LW especially if you keep upgrading the dot releases. It would also allow for updates to the documentation be corrected faster, rather than waiting until the next release to see the updated docs.
Yep, that's pretty much what I've been suggesting for years.

Throw in moderated crowd-sourced additions, and that's pretty much it.

Centralized. Evolving. Extensible.

iain_r
09-25-2012, 02:02 PM
Ok Jeric, on my machine the release notes for version 11 are in C:\LightWave64Bit11.0\sdk\html\lscript. I tend to still use 9.6, so I also have them here C:\Lightwave64Bit9.6\SDK\html\lscript, also got them in C:\Lightwave64Bit9.6\Documentation\lscript.

Regards

Iain.

jeric_synergy
09-25-2012, 02:45 PM
Ok Jeric, on my machine the release notes for version 11 are in C:\LightWave64Bit11.0\sdk\html\lscript. I tend to still use 9.6, so I also have them here C:\Lightwave64Bit9.6\SDK\html\lscript, also got them in C:\Lightwave64Bit9.6\Documentation\lscript.
Regards
Iain.
Thanks, Iain. On my totally vanilla 11.0.3 install, in the sdk folder there are 3 zipped files: lwcoresdk11.0.zip, lwsdk11.0.zip, and pdbs.zip I'll have a look in them and see what pops out.

Knowing the folder/filename is a big help.

+++
I don't know why this stuff seems to be so hidden. Seriously, finding this information feels like nothing less than a nasty hazing ritual.

I think the location of these resources definitely warrant a 'sticky' at the top of this forum. Just one location alone, Dodgy's reference, deserves a sticky, let alone the ftp addresses.

iain_r
09-27-2012, 03:24 AM
They should be in lwsdk11.0.zip in the html\lscript directory.

Regards

Iain.