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prometheus
09-16-2012, 12:08 PM
Anyone seen any good free pine needle texture with alpha mask somewhere!?

Ivé just started to work and test Dp verdure tree pack out, and I will share some findings and tips on how to shape trees in a special tips and guide thread later on, but I need some help with leaf textures to get going.

Thanks!

Michael

XswampyX
09-16-2012, 01:40 PM
Xfrog have a good (free) pine tree to download. :) You could 'borrow' the textures from that?

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/X-FrogTree.jpg

http://xfrog.com/product/X-05.html

prometheus
09-16-2012, 02:02 PM
Thanks XswampyX! Should have checked that, I just didnīt know which tree to look at.

I would like to render out all those samples from the free xfrog trees someday when I get the time to create an index.
I was about to set up a simple branch and add fiber fx to it in order to render out some artificial pine needles:)

Im still wrestling with getting the leaf branch connection correct, as I get them now they seem to float in the air, need to check how to fix that.

the image attached is a simple disc extruded and then I used dp verdure, setting branch and trunk deviation to zero to get a straight trunk, seems to work decently to get a pine tree, should have tapered the extruded disc at the top
though to be more realistic, the leaves was a quite poor texture, and as mentioned, the leaves arenīt aligned correctly to branches.

I will post the tree and also preset for dp verdure once I get this right.

SBowie
09-16-2012, 02:30 PM
I don't suppose it matters, but just in case it does, those are not pine needles; conifer yes, possibly fir or yew ... but definitely not pine.

prometheus
09-16-2012, 03:01 PM
I don't suppose it matters, but just in case it does, those are not pine needles; conifer yes, possibly fir or yew ... but definitely not pine.

You might indeed be right about that, but the two species are somewhat similar, and I find it hard to destinct them from each other, I guess I need to study it closer and do some indexes over it.

I tested these needles anyway, but I got a along way still to get desired results, right now my trees looks to thin with the leaves, and I need to find a way to have them look as the needle branches goes out
from each side of the stem branches, as they mostly do in real world.

Michael

SBowie
09-16-2012, 04:54 PM
You might indeed be right about that, but the two species are somewhat similar ... Not if you were raised by wolves in a boreal forest they aren't. ;)

If your needles had two white stomatal stripes on the bottom and I came on them in the bush where I grew up, I'd be looking at Abies Balsamea (a.k.a, Balsam Fir), rather than a pine.
Pine needles typically grow in fascicles with 2-5 needles in a bundle, and are radial around the twig. This is a fairly typical example:

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Again, this probably doesn't matter for your purposes, but someone who is acquainted with trees in a given locale will see it. Even between pines, the characteristic needle types gives them very distinctive appearances even at substantial distances. It affects the entire appearance of the branches and silhouette of the tree (the upward and downward sweep of the branches at different heights on the trunk help, too). It's child's play, for example, to distinguish a jack pine from a scotch pine, or a red pine from a white pine, etc. I'm pretty sure I could do it from a mile away with the unaided eye in most cases - much less a spruce from a pine, cedar, fir, etc.

I admit to being a bit of a tree lover, sorry to go on about it. But since I am, at the end of the day you just can't beat good old pinus strobus:

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prometheus
09-17-2012, 02:30 PM
Just found this, seems to be free and a lot of leaf textures, some with alphas and some not, some are mostly gif so converting to png might be best to do first or otherwis lightwave wont recognize it.
http://www.burningwell.org/gallery2/v/textures/plants/leavesAndBranches/?g2_page=2

Anyway, my first tests with dp verdure treeīs and foliage came out with to little leaves or maybe to small leaves, need a lot more clusters in there, and that was 10000 leaves for a single tree, I didnt use the suggested so called pine or fir
leaf texture from x-frog, I took one acacia looking leaf style, which is not correct but just for testing, the fir tree needles looked worse, but I will test some more of the textures from the site link later.

Michael

ncr100
09-17-2012, 02:35 PM
... possibly fir ...

Yes fir - there were tons of these trees in my backyard.

SBowie
09-17-2012, 03:19 PM
I generally suck at LW, but I was wondering whether it might not be entirely crazy to use FiberFX for pine needles?

prometheus
09-17-2012, 04:02 PM
I generally suck at LW, but I was wondering whether it might not be entirely crazy to use FiberFX for pine needles?

Im sure it can be done, just a matter of time, and using the proper method, either model branch, and use fiber fx modeler and grow fiber, or just use fiberfx directly in layout, all that would matter is the end render
and you can easy set up alpha.

Michael

prometheus
09-17-2012, 04:07 PM
Very easy to setup in seconds in modeler with full gravity control slope and lenght and lots of other options, but I really got to get my 7 hours of sleep before work now.


Michael

jwiede
09-17-2012, 07:14 PM
Hehe, what Steve said. Also, you're putting too much "bare" area at the bottom of the trees such that the trees kind of look ill, and could use denser branching in general. If there were massively dense undergrowth, perhaps, but that wouldn't generally be the case for conifers like those discussed -- even lodgepole pine don't have that kind of "bare" area at base normally.

- - - Updated - - -


Very easy to setup in seconds in modeler with full gravity control slope and lenght and lots of other options, but I really got to get my 7 hours of sleep before work now.
Results look quite promising, only catch is those still are easily identifiable as not being pine needles (still looks like a fir of some sort), but I'm guessing you don't mind. ;) I'm not sure FFX could really do believable pine needles, precisely because of the way the needles originate in clusters that unwrap/split apart slightly away from the branch surface. Clearly should be able to do decent firs though, as your example demonstrates.

SBowie
09-17-2012, 07:19 PM
That's closer to a spruce look, actually.

jwiede
09-17-2012, 07:29 PM
That's closer to a spruce look, actually.
Yep, my bad.

prometheus
09-17-2012, 11:16 PM
Hehe, what Steve said. Also, you're putting too much "bare" area at the bottom of the trees such that the trees kind of look ill, and could use denser branching in general. If there were massively dense undergrowth, perhaps, but that wouldn't generally be the case for conifers like those discussed -- even lodgepole pine don't have that kind of "bare" area at base normally.

- - - Updated - - -


Results look quite promising, only catch is those still are easily identifiable as not being pine needles (still looks like a fir of some sort), but I'm guessing you don't mind. ;) I'm not sure FFX could really do believable pine needles, precisely because of the way the needles originate in clusters that unwrap/split apart slightly away from the branch surface. Clearly should be able to do decent firs though, as your example demonstrates.

Yeah I got a lot to work on to get it decent, not sure of the bare area thou, if you mean the base trunk without branches ...when I look in the real world at some of the trees here, I donīt see any branches at all originated until very high up,
with a few exception.,I tried the other way around too...have to study that a little more.

what I noticed yesterday was that I had no branchlets, which I should have, and it is those that should be covered with leaves, not the branches themself reaching out, so it looked a little better once adding that, but still I have
to work on the leaf size and coverage and placement along with type of needle texture.

Michael

SBowie
09-18-2012, 06:03 AM
Two things, if you're going for realism ...

First, on the general topic of branching, the height of the lower branches changes over time and with local environmental factors. A young pine will normally branch close to the ground, but these lower branches tend to get broken off over time, and of course the tree grows taller - so a branch that was once perhaps six feet from the ground may now be 30 feet in the air. This is all the more true if examples are exposed to harsh weather - which accounts for the classic wilderness silhouette of a few solitary white pines on a point jutting out into a frozen lake. They look windswept, brooding and lonely, but at the same time somehow noble and commanding respect for taking the worst nature throws at them and continuing to stand sentinel. A younger tree, or one in a protected location, will be much fuller.

At one time Northern Ontario was covered with White Pine as a lawn is covered with grass, but the lumber barons got almost all of it long ago, leaving something that is much 'less' in so many ways. It's rare to find old growth specimens beyond a few preserves, but if you ever have the experience of being in such a forest, it's something you'll never forget. The trunks can reach 125-150 feet, straight as an I-beam, clear of branches for 2/3 of their height ... perfect for serving as the masts of sailing vessels, which is where so many of them went in colonial days. The ground underneath will be a bed of dried needles 8 inches thick, trees perhaps 50 feet apart, the sun filtering through the canopy high above; no sound at all, other than the creaking of branches, the wind in the tree tops, the muted flutter of whiskeyjacks and the occasional drumming of a partridge.

The other thing - fascicles of needles are very distinctive, as I mentioned earlier. The number of needles in each fascicle and their length play a huge part in defining the appearance of different pines, making them distinctive from one another and very different from other conifers. If the single needles in the 'spruce-like' example that was posted were replaced with bundles of two needles, oh say 5-8" long, inclined toward the end of their branches and drooping somewhat toward the ground, you'd be well on the way to a red pine. From a distance, the branches of a red pine always put me in mind of a squirrel's tail. A white pine, with 5 much shorter needless per fascicle is quite different.

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Notice how the branches incline upward in youth (above), but in an older tree bow downward (below).

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p.s, I know this is more than you likely ever wanted or needed to know, I'm just a fan of trees. :)

SBowie
09-18-2012, 07:40 AM
(Sorry for the OT post.) Feeling a little nostalgic now ... the mood was crying out for music, and there was only ever one song that properly addressed the time "when the green, dark forest was too silent to be real."


http://youtu.be/NjoU1Qkeizs
(Edit: found a version I like better).

prometheus
09-24-2012, 04:33 AM
Yeah...this image from you is more of the type Im looking for and what is seen mostly here in sweden too..
108052

For more tree loving...I collected the conifer tree images from speedtree and put them in a compiled sheet.
Im also lookin for a nice oak tree matching some swedish ones, but couldnīt find any in the speedtree broadleafs.

In the conifer librarys from speedtree, the scots pine and sample conifer is close to the trees Im looking for ..but not quite the same.

SpeedTree site...
http://www.speedtree.com/trees/

Michael

SBowie
09-24-2012, 07:30 AM
Yeah...this image from you is more of the type Im looking for and what is seen mostly here in sweden too..I'm not surprised. At that latitude, I expect that the natural forest in Sweden is quite similar to the Canadian boreal forest. That's a classic white pine (pinus strobus) type.


In the conifer librarys from speedtree, the scots pine and sample conifer is close to the trees Im looking for ..but not quite the same.[/url]Scotch Pine (pinus sylvestris) is not native to Canada, but was heavily used for reforestation after the white pine was decimated. It's superior to the native jack pine (pinus banksiana) in many ways, fares well in the environment (tends to maintain a nice, full shape), and grows faster than white pine - though by no means a match for the latter in terms of quality, if you ask me.

Scotch pine, jack pine, and red pine are 'two needle' pines, where white pine is a '5 needle' type. This gives white pine foliage a denser, tufted, almost spray-like look by comparison with its siblings that affects the profile of the tree even when the number of branches becomes sparse.


You might also find this site interesting: http://www.forestryimages.org/