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View Full Version : Consolidate the tools PLEASE!! And other nit-picks.



Lamont
10-29-2003, 12:09 AM
Yesterday I was making a 3DS Max-ish layout for Modeler, so I opened up every tool and tinkered with it.

I open Dragnet, then Drag, and then Move. Those are the same tools. I found tons (ok, not "tons" but many) of tools that are the same just flick the falloff type.

Rest on Ground, Align and the one you get when you hit "Cntr+V". They do the same thing.

The names need to be changed for some as well.

Oh, please do something about the Rove tool. A great start but needs to have those features in the appropriate tool. Someone said the blue needs to go, well, it can get confusing.

Mouse menus need to be looked at again. Make use of the "menu preset" when you edit menus and keys. I tried looking on the net to see if I can add to that (cfg file or something..). But "6.0" style is all that's there. I want to be able to add to that.

I am sure someone has mentioned this, so I'll leave it at that.

edges..

jin choung
10-29-2003, 12:20 AM
absolutely,

the whole interface needs a really good 'once over'....

but it's a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG task.

hope they're up to it or get it up to get up to it.


jin

Matt
10-29-2003, 03:10 AM
absolutely - lamont you've hit the nail right on the head!

the whole interface could be sooooooo much leaner/meaner if you did this!

I posted a question asking if you could add to the preset config menus a while ago too, seems silly not being able to add to it.

Lamont
10-29-2003, 03:54 AM
Originally posted by jin choung
hope they're up to it or get it up to get up to it.Hahaha!! That`s funny!!

Yeah, I came across a bunch of stuff because normally I don`t have the menu shown, and the tools I need are hot-keys and mouse menus.

It`s like you have 3 cars, all are the same, but you drive one in reverse, one is left in park and the other drives forward.

I noticed students selecting point(s) and then picking the "Move" tool, and not just using drag. So I guess it`s not intuitive enough.

edges.

KillMe
10-29-2003, 03:07 PM
now becareful what you ask for the move and drag tool are NOT the same tool you grad a load of point and hit move the all go with drag it jstu places a limit on what you can tweak and i find it very very very useful to have those two particular tools but i agree with the sentiment that things could be consolidated - jsut think of beveling and the number of tools that you got and thats not including any you might have downloaded imagine bevel ++ with magic bevel and smooth shift all in one tool - ahhhhhh

anyway just one more thing to say - you were makinga maxish layout in modeler? damn if i knew where you lived i'd get a wet trout and come of and slap you in teh face with it =)

max is horible - thankfully i down think the modeler can eb twisted into such a horrible form

Dodgy
10-30-2003, 03:12 AM
On interface editing, I'd like to be able to copy and paste sub menus around in the menu system. As is, you have to duplicate them an item at a time, and this can take ages....

Matt
10-30-2003, 03:33 AM
The menu editor needs a total overhaul IMO, like you say it's a hassle to copy menus around.

Searching still needs work too.

- - -

On the config front, it would be nice if the edit plugins menu had a 'drop box' for plugins/lscripts that allowed you to drag a new plugin onto it, LW then copies it to the relevant folder in your LW directory, adds it to a menu along with a button.

The menu would be specified by you. This behaviour could also be turned off it you so wished.

Lamont
11-01-2003, 08:27 PM
Yeah,

If you come down and hit me with any type of fish, you better be buying me a drink after.

I was just thinking how cool it would be to drag and drop things on the interface a few minutes ago... that would be candy.

Elmar Moelzer
11-02-2003, 06:51 AM
Control-v does not do the same as rest on ground.
Control- v moves all selected thigs to the very coordinates you specify (its more like a stretch as you model would be distorted), while rest on ground does not distort the model.
Drag and Dragnet are not the same as move.
I agree though that some tools need an overwhole.
Right now there are too many tools that either halfbaked or that could be merged into one, etc, etc.
Especially the Vertex- map- tools come to my mind here.
There are too many of them and there are still a lot of things that cant be done with them.
We also have to many bevel- tools.
A lot of things could be fixed by simply adding edges as a selectionmode.
BTW, I really have to wonder who the hell would want to make Modeler more Maxish?
CU
Elmar

Lamont
11-02-2003, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by Elmar Moelzer
Control-v does not do the same as rest on ground.
Control- v moves all selected thigs to the very coordinates you specify (its more like a stretch as you model would be distorted), while rest on ground does not distort the model.Cntrol-V does distort, it's setting an absolute value of something, the "Info" tool should the place to do that (With a cleaner interface too please...) and the Info tool should be non-modal (?).

Rest on ground will, you guessed it, rest on ground, how ever you define what "Ground" is (+/- X/Y/Z).

Align will do all of those. It should be exspanded a bit. Get rid of Set Value and Rest on Ground.


Originally posted by Elmar Moelzer
Drag and Dragnet are not the same as Move.

Drag.. ok, now Numeric Panel, change the fall-off to none. You have the Move tool in default. Get the Move tool, change the fall-off to Point, you got the Drag tool.

Change the fall-off of Drag/Move to Radial, LMB drag a circle... Dragnet.

Something else I ran into... I forgot. I had to pack away my comp...I'll see it again in a few days.

I should post in another thread about the next item...

Dodgy
11-03-2003, 02:57 AM
The point with drag move etc, is they're already setup for you to go. You could just clean the whole interface yourself to get rid of them...

Elmar Moelzer
11-03-2003, 08:50 AM
Exactly Dodgy!
I would not want to loose these tools as separate ones as they all come in handy, are used often and can have their own shortcuts.
I dont see why I would want to do that with the info- tool.
Set Value is good for this and it has its own short cut so I dont need to fiddle arround with the much too large info- panel.
I prefer having one tool that does one thing, for those tools that I use often. There are other tools though that I use less often, that could really be merged into one. Especially tools that require the user to adjust settings in a panel.
I really have to wonder why solid drill and drill need to be two tools. They open their own panel anyway. So why not have one panel with settings for both?
I think the area that really needs a cleanup is the vertex- map- tools. There are sooo many tools in there and all of them are soso.
It would be clever to merge some of them where necessary and get rid of some others simply because they either dont work anyway, or because their functionality could be included elsewhere.
Another thing that really comes to my mind is that true edge- support as a selection- mode would help getting rid of a lot of tools in Modeler as well (all those pseudo- edge- tools).
Also ideally a future version of LW would allow users to create shortcuts/buttons for tools with special settings.
CU
Elmar

Dodgy
11-03-2003, 09:19 AM
I think the vertex tools were probably thrown in with not as much thought as the other tools had. So they ended up not as polished. For instance, the UV quantize tool never remembers settings between invocations. I rewrote it as an Lscript and now it is a bit more useful.
A bit more revision on the plugins would improve them no end...

Quad UV mapping could be included in the apply/make UV requester, and the two if those do the same job anyway, so they could be reduced to one.