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Richard Hebert
09-04-2012, 01:17 AM
Hi Guys,

I'm just about all SkyTracered out over here. Too many bugs not enough bang for the trouble. Any recommendations for an environmental plugin? I'm aware of Vue but not too many others that are compatible with LightWave. What are you guys using to produce these insanely realistic environments?

Cheerio
Richard

OFF
09-04-2012, 01:33 AM
Sunsky by Denis Pontonnier - Daylight Model
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/Sunsky.html
Ozone
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/ozone/ozone_6.0/

prometheus
09-04-2012, 02:21 AM
Hi Guys,

I'm just about all SkyTracered out over here. Too many bugs not enough bang for the trouble. Any recommendations for an environmental plugin? I'm aware of Vue but not too many others that are compatible with LightWave. What are you guys using to produce these insanely realistic environments?

Cheerio
Richard

Insanely realistic environments? that donīt come easy in lightwave really, most people probably use images mapped on textured environment or domes.

if you are using skytracer and want clouds in there..depending on cloudīs though, but you would need textured shadows to get good depth in there, and that is slower than most other things Ivé seen, besides ..skytracer isnīt truly fully volumetric.

Ozone can get the most realistic ones, but that depends on what cloud layer you choose or preset, but Ozone has some serious limits in tweaking clouds and you canīt use the editor and tweak and have VPR open at the same time.

Ogo Taiki is quite nice too, but has a more daunting UI, and hard to figure quality settings, but otherwise you can create pretty much anything with it, it isnīt developed anymore though it seems, and itīs only for 32 bit machines.

ogo taiki and ozone is the only ones with a true volumetric engine and air properties to follow...You can use hypervoxels or Turbulencefd
for clouds, but you will miss the general overall atmospherics.

I donīt see anything else out there apart from these really.
NatureFX had a tool for it ages ago, but donīt think that works anymore or that you can get hold of it.

Michael

prometheus
09-04-2012, 02:22 AM
Sunsky by Denis Pontonnier - Daylight Model
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/Sunsky.html
Ozone
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/ozone/ozone_6.0/


Sunsky is merely nice sunlight and some sky gradient procedural which looks good, but not a volumetric atmosphere engine, and it completly lacks clouds.

Michael

UnCommonGrafx
09-04-2012, 04:01 AM
Ogo Taiki.

It seems to be a lot faster nowadays within LW.

prometheus
09-04-2012, 05:26 AM
Ogo Taiki.

It seems to be a lot faster nowadays within LW.

Not quite sure about that for Lightwave final renders, VPR feedback is one thing...but final renders?

unfortunatly fog layers required for godrays in ogo taiki seems way slower than having godrays in ozone.

a 10-20 speedup in ogoīs volumetri engine, UI overhaul ...especially better overview of layers you currently work on, and 64 bit version and a better way to set up fog, air properties, then it would be great.

I have mentioned proīs and conīs between ogo taiki and ozone in many other threads.
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=126741&highlight=ozone

Michael

Philbert
09-04-2012, 06:13 AM
How about Smart IBL? The plugin works great in LightWave and there are a number of nice free environments in the sIBL archive.

http://www.hdrlabs.com/sibl/index.html

prometheus
09-04-2012, 06:14 AM
I just posted a feedback list to e-on, unfortunatly I am not eligable to post on forums.

point 1-5 is the most important to fix.


"The issues Im having with ozone is...

1. it is essential to be able to tweak cloud density functions, this can be done in vue, but not in ozone since there is no acess to those noise functions, neither rotation or position of the same.

2. ozone is missing the cloud density detail tab which is present in vue itself, therefore lack of control.

3. Finally thereīs a resizable preview window, thatīs better than before, but it feels contra productive trying to tweak the atmosphere without getting feedback on how it affects the rest of the scene, vue standalone can do this, but we can not do this with VPR open in Lightwave and edit at the same time which is sadly not good enough, If we take a look at the volumetric plugin ogo taiki for lightwave, that is fully doable.

4. planet point of view, this can be done in vue, but you can not get that within ozone, again if we take a look at the volumetric plugin ogo taiki, you can acheive that with ogo taiki.

5. godray doesnīt seem to affect and cast shadow rays from and on lightwave objects.

6. spectral (2)3 cloud layers are extremly slow compared to spectral 1 layers, which speed was acceptable, this is more the same in vue itself.

7. very shortly after installement of ozone 6, I couldnt get Lightwave to work and start up properly either, thus I got somewhat scared to install it again.

8. as mentioned by Markus Groeteke on ozone forum, moving camera or things in lightwave seems to have gone wrong, it is extremly slow and the same issue was not in ozone 5.

Unfortunatly thereīs so many issues with ozone and lightwave, that I have given advice to people to look in to ogo taiki which has some benifits compared to ozone, such as working with VPR while editing, working with native lightwave procedurals for cloud density which are a little better than ozoneīs function noises that are based on older noise functions not designed for cloud density.
ogo taiki can use point clusters or particles for clouds, ogo taiki has air refraction for heat shimmer.

Not expecting ozone to have all that, but some of the points mentioned needs to be adressed if checking the point issue order."

prometheus
09-04-2012, 06:15 AM
How about Smart IBL? The plugin works great in LightWave and there are a number of nice free environments in the sIBL archive.

http://www.hdrlabs.com/sibl/index.html

how do you animate the clouds in sIBL:D and wheres fog and haze:D

Serious rework of skytracer or ogo taiki implementation is about time.

Being obnoxious today.

Philbert
09-04-2012, 06:23 AM
You don't. But in many situations you don't need that. Richard only said he wanted realistic environments. Not what he was doing with them.

prometheus
09-04-2012, 06:36 AM
You don't. But in many situations you don't need that. Richard only said he wanted realistic environments. Not what he was doing with them.

Yah...thatīs the route, generally if one can get away with image backdrops ..thatīs the way to go and avoiding long rendertimes such as generated sky atmospherics is demanding.

Seeing though that he mentions skytracer and vue, it could be suspected that he might need/want a truly volumetric engine with full control of lighting that can be set anyware and clouds in any shape and anywhere needed.

which method to use is defined by type of shot of course.

Extremly fun to be a god over your environments though, and being able to create it with full artistic freedom only limited by your imagination and skills on how to use it.

sIBL with animated cloud time lapse would be nice, and tools to match the environment sun location with a Lightwave physical sunlight that also can be volumetric would be great to have.

Ogo taiki site...
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~pq1a-ogs/taiki_e.html

Michael

sadkkf
09-04-2012, 08:31 AM
Terragen also creates some very realistic skies and terrain.

http://www.planetside.co.uk/

Philbert
09-04-2012, 01:23 PM
If I recall correctly, Jen Hachigian said they used Terragen for environments in Terra Nova.

Richard Hebert
09-05-2012, 01:20 AM
Are you guys familiar with Terragen bugs and Lightwave? BTW, while I didn't go into detail about environments (my fault) I am looking for environmental effects to eventually go into the project... godrays etc. But for the moment SmartIBL will work until then. Thanks for the info. on Ozone. I was considering it but will put the brakes on it for now.

Richard

prometheus
09-05-2012, 02:27 AM
Terragen isnīt for me anyway, I donīt feel I can be creative and work with a fast workflow due to itīs very slow previewer and renderer.
You would of course have to setup pipeline to transfer between the two programs.

The only thing I like about Terragen is its cloud density fractals which are way better than vue, and Terragen might have slightly better light and air scattering algorithms.

I rather go with full vue infinite implementation though before Terragen since working in vue is a breeze and faster to preview and render, even though it is slower in AA than lightwave.

Ozone is out of the question for the moment as I mentioned, but I could think of working with Vue infinite and lightwave perhaps, thatīs another thing since you can get instant feedback over the whole scene in vue while tweaking, and you have those cloud controls, such as noise function density and cloud detail tab that is missing in ozone.

I rather see a complete working solution within Lightwave though, the only solution that comes close is ogo taiki, I have mailed the author of ogo taiki recently and asked if he will update it or get Newtek to work on it, or if it is a lost cause?
I donīt excpect to get any response really since he seems gone from the site, but at least I brought forward the interest.


Michael

prometheus
09-05-2012, 02:50 AM
some of my first cloud tests in ozone, before I lost interest in it..


http://vimeo.com/39122792
http://vimeo.com/39072395
http://vimeo.com/21359403
http://vimeo.com/21242230

Ozone 6 got my Lightwave to crash completly and there was no way to get Lightwave starting again, I think It was due to ozone 6 since the issue started right there and then.

Michael

rcallicotte
09-05-2012, 07:14 AM
Yes, this was verified on the Planetside forums.



If I recall correctly, Jen Hachigian said they used Terragen for environments in Terra Nova.

Areyos Alektor
09-05-2012, 08:05 AM
And Bryce?

It's an interesting tool, and it goes very well with LightWave.

http://www.daz3d.com/products/bryce/bryce-what-is-bryce

prometheus
09-05-2012, 08:11 AM
And Bryce?

It's an interesting tool, and it goes very well with LightWave.

http://www.daz3d.com/products/bryce/bryce-what-is-bryce

And itīs free...for a limited time that is.
Bryce was a long long time since I tried it out.

goes well with lightwave? camera and light matching, import objects and exports of objects?
Volumetric clouds and godrays?

Michael

Philbert
09-05-2012, 08:42 AM
I downloaded Bryce when they started offering it free and never touched it. It was actually the first 3D program I used back in like 1998.

jwiede
09-05-2012, 10:15 AM
Is it even possible for someone who doesn't already own an ogo taiki license to get a new one?

Richard Hebert
09-05-2012, 11:32 AM
It's a shame to see the best options fall by the wayside only to have the next best thing available.

Richard

Areyos Alektor
09-05-2012, 02:42 PM
And itīs free...for a limited time that is.
Bryce was a long long time since I tried it out.

goes well with lightwave? camera and light matching, import objects and exports of objects?
Volumetric clouds and godrays?

Michael

This isn't a perfect tool in an imperfect world, but:

- You can import/export in LWO/LWS.
- Volumetric Cloud, take a look :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlTioc_4OrY
- you can use IBL, produce HDRi, etc...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY1zip_DXm4
http://www.bryce-tutorials.info/bryce-tutorials.html

wesleycorgi
09-05-2012, 06:59 PM
Has anyone tried Bryce in a while? It's now free on Daz3D and specs say it exports to LW. The Mac version crashes on startup, so I am unable to try it out.

prometheus
09-07-2012, 12:00 PM
This isn't a perfect tool in an imperfect world, but:

- You can import/export in LWO/LWS.
- Volumetric Cloud, take a look :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlTioc_4OrY
- you can use IBL, produce HDRi, etc...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY1zip_DXm4
http://www.bryce-tutorials.info/bryce-tutorials.html

Cool...have to check, but UI workflow isnīt that nice to work with it seems, jumping in and out of material lab that way to see tweak by tweak, no wonder he says it took some (2-3 hours) to tweak the clouds?
I could with ease tweak some vue clouds within a couple of minutes to get desired results.

Michael

Areyos Alektor
09-08-2012, 07:17 PM
The interface is aging, and the program deserves more attention. But it's better than Hexagon, which itself had a better fate than Mimic ;) Their arrival in Daz still allowed to keep available. With some interesting additions, especially Bryce. Now they are free. It's always better than nothing.

I don't think Bryce can be compared to Vue. They don't address the same type of users. But as is often the same software that is mentioned it's good to recall that there are alternatives.

wesleycorgi
09-10-2012, 11:17 AM
I tried Bryce on an old Mac laptop (Snow Leopard OS, since it crashes like crazy on L/ML) this weekend. Objects/meshes export but the volumetric clouds do not. The same convoluted interface got in the way of doing anything useful — so I gave up.

prometheus
09-11-2012, 07:37 AM
I tried Bryce on an old Mac laptop (Snow Leopard OS, since it crashes like crazy on L/ML) this weekend. Objects/meshes export but the volumetric clouds do not. The same convoluted interface got in the way of doing anything useful — so I gave up.

never rely on Mac to do work with 3d tools developed on pcīs...still bitter truth after many many years, and still valid though macīs are excellent otherwise.

gerardstrada
09-13-2012, 12:24 PM
Hi Guys,

I'm just about all SkyTracered out over here. Too many bugs not enough bang for the trouble. Any recommendations for an environmental plugin? I'm aware of Vue but not too many others that are compatible with LightWave. What are you guys using to produce these insanely realistic environments?

Cheerio
Richard

There was a series of presets in Eki's PlugPak called SkyGen (http://www.kolumbus.fi/erkki.halkka/plugpak/SkyGen_frame.html) that might work well together with DP SunSky (http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/Sunsky.html). Though don't know if those scripts still are available or work in LW 11. Guess if you have LW 9.x you could save the presets as scenes.

There's also the Dutch Skies, awesome (http://www.bobgroothuis.com/blog/2011/05/order_page/) and (http://www.bobgroothuis.com/blog/2012/04/dutch-skies-360-order-page-volume-2/) high (http://www.bobgroothuis.com/blog/2011/01/volume-3-dvd-available-dutch-skies-360%C2%B0-295w/) quality (http://www.bobgroothuis.com/blog/2011/10/dutch-skies-360%C2%B0-preview-order-page-volume-4-316w/) panoramic (http://www.bobgroothuis.com/blog/2012/07/order-page-hdri-products-online-shop-338w/#C9) skies (http://www.bobgroothuis.com/blog/2012/07/order-page-hdri-products-online-shop-338w/#C10) by Bob Groothuis. Not only top notch HDR panoramas at high resolution, they come also ready for IBL thanks to Blochi's sIBL initiative (http://www.hdrlabs.com/sibl/index.html).



Gerardo