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Hail
09-02-2012, 11:15 AM
LightWave Development Update - 21 June 2011

"This month marks the first anniversary of my appointment to head up 3D development at NewTek. It has been an amazing time, and I think everyone can agree that LightWave has seen a ton of immediately useful enhancements in the past year. Also we have added a new UI designer, Matt Gorner, as well as Lino Grandi in the position of QA manager. Together they both bring years of LightWave experience and unique talents with them. We had a great SIGGRAPH in 2010, shipped LightWave 10 in December, and already have another great update approaching. LightWave 10 garnered a glowing review in Mays 3D Artist magazine (earning a full 10 for value, and 9 out of 10 overall) and LightWave 10.1 was honored with the Silver Edge Award at NAB 2011. I'm extremely proud of the accomplishments of this team, and equally excited about the direction of LightWave development.

Everyone wants clarity on our development direction and specifically on CORE and as a long time LightWave user myself I definitely understand this. Actually, I was among the first to join HardCORE when it was announced and yes, I paid to join with my own money. We all know that at times the HardCORE process has been a bumpy road. A collaborative approach to development is very tricky - the process has to be flexible. Caveats like "forward looking" were used repeatedly, but even so at times HC was very frustrating for some. We did learn a lot through the process, much of it from you. We feel that our shared experience, good and not so good, has refined our process and put us on the correct course for the future.

CORE represents an important ideal for many of us. One of the things that motivated me to originally join NewTek was the innovation CORE promised, how it would improve LightWave and provide new possibilities. We need intuitive and powerful tools to work with. A unified application with an innovative modeling workflow where I can make adjustments to geometry and model from camera perspective is very important to me. So are interactive rendering, easy and powerful interchange, flexibility, scriptability, a robust SDK, and artist-friendly workflows.

We all want these advancements sooner rather than later. Recently, the dev team and I very carefully reviewed the features and functionality users want, re-evaluating the best way to deliver them.

Contrary to what some expected, were now convinced that the very best route to do this is to use CORE as a development platform when appropriate as we have with VPR, the interchange tools and the stereoscopic features along with progressively rewriting LightWave itself. The beauty of this method is that it delivers benefits to you that can be used immediately at every step of the journey. Some worry it is impossible, or impractical, to bring about needed changes within the existing LightWave architecture. This is just not the case. I spent a lot of time considering all possibilities with the developers. Our review revealed that many so called "architectural limitations" are not as unyielding as originally thought. As changes to the underlying architecture are needed, we can make them. Some will be quick, others more involved, but there are no limits on what we can do.

It was said it would be extremely difficult or impossible to implement VPR in Layout. Yet we did so in a short timeframe, in time for SIGGRAPH 2010. VPR was an incredible addition to LightWave even in its early form, and its abilities grow with each update. Again, its no small thing that these new features are immediately useful. Numerous artists and studios have told us how much they appreciate having them right now.

That is just one example. You only need to look at what our third party developers have done to see what has been possible even within the constraints of the SDK. Consider how deeply Mike Wolf and Denis Pontonnier's Node plugins have enhanced LightWave's native functionality. Elmar's Volumedic plugin and Viktor's LWCAD also shows what can be done to integrate new functionality within the program, not to mention the fantastic work Worley and Hurley have done over the years. These are just a few that come to mind from our many developers. Even as far back as the late 1990's the original Messiah plugin showed how you could write almost an entirely new application off the back of the LightWave SDK...and the SDK today is much more powerful than that.

And of course NewTek has the ability to expand the SDK endlessly and leverage it fully. If the SDK needs changing, well change it. If we need new tools, well build them. We also value our third party developers and are thinking in terms of enhanced third party access whenever we discuss any architectural changes, new features, or feature workflow improvements. Our third party developers are amazing and we want to make it easier for them to create great supporting tools for future LightWave releases because that will benefit everyone.

Actually, were hard at work on other revisions and expansions at this very moment, to put real-world solutions into your hands as soon as possible, without taking our eyes off the longer term goals. We did not suddenly stop wanting an integrated application, or abandon the vision of working with incredibly large data sets. We didn't decide that making modeling adjustments from camera perspective is an unattainable dream, or that we don't need a robust scripting language with deep access to the program. These features are all on our minds for a reason. The team and I definitely understand why they are important. We can and will provide the innovations that our users need with our future development.

When I took this job, I promised to myself that I would look at all options with an open mind, and be completely honest about what I discovered with myself, with NewTek management, HardCORE, and with users at large. Really, this is the only way I can proceed. Software development of a complex 3D application is no small task. To be successful, the team and I must fully believe in the project. Some expect me to stay on a particular course no matter what. But smart leaders make course corrections as they gain more information based on research, facts and experience. So what does this mean for you?

Moving forward, we are focusing on providing you amazing tools and an expanded architecture within LightWave, using CORE technology and frameworks to bring the functionality we all need and want to you in the quickest manner possible. CORE may serve interim roles in the development process where it seems appropriate, but ultimately its about delivering accessible real-world functionality to you. The plan has always been that incremental development would lead to a next generation LightWave. This has not changed. As artists and users, its about the destination and the journey along the way. Well continue to use CORE technology to develop when it makes sense to do so, but the ultimate delivery vehicle will be LightWave, not CORE 1.0.

Just to be clear the overall goal for the functionality and features that we all want has not changed, merely the product in which we will deliver them. Does it mean all the work on CORE has been wasted? Absolutely not: CORE delivered new technology, much of which we have implemented into LightWave 10, and this will continue to be the case. CORE will serve to refine and deliver new LightWave technology, and we will expand the current architecture to allow us to do the things that users expect and even innovative things that they don't expect.

Let's also talk about communication for a moment. One of the biggest problems for me personally has been with talking about a product or feature prematurely. My personal view as head of LightWave development is that this is not the best approach. It often leads to unrealistic expectations not based on actual development timeframes, or any sense of reality. Actually, it can stifle creativity and compromise originality if we feel were locked into every idea that may or may not pan out.

Ultimately we want you to know that we place a very high value on you, the LightWave user. I am one of you. We also totally understand that this is a change for CORE, if after we release 10.1 you feel that we have not delivered value for your original CORE subscription then we will offer you a refund. We want the functionality which we all need to be a reality as quickly as possible, and were sure were on the best path to do that. The entire 3D team here at NewTek is truly excited about our direction and future and we want you to be part of that journey with us.

LightWave is a tool that has been so important to us as artists. There is just something special about what LightWave brings to our creative process and I know that for me, I would not have been able to respond as visually and as quickly and to take advantage of the unique opportunities in my career without LightWave in my toolkit. LightWave rocks out the Emmy's every year and has pretty much dominated television visual effects for over twenty years. I can't wait until the fall premiere of Terra Nova to see the amazing work being done at Pixomondo on this new Steven Spielberg television series. Any show with cool dinosaurs and amazing visual effects is alright by me! The early clips I've seen from the show have been mind blowing!

Just today I was reminded of what really makes LightWave such a special tool when I was given an exclusive sneak peak of the new independent short film "Abiogenesis" by Richard Mans, an independent filmmaker in New Zealand. It is a magic moment when a director's vision soars on the screen in front of you. It is even more impressive when you realize that the work wasn't created by an army of animators at a huge studio using additional custom software but instead by a single artist using LightWave. This is what it is all about! This is what LightWave has enabled me to do as an artist...to visualize images in my mind's eye and quickly make them a reality without being forced to rely on anyone else. This special trait is just as useful at studios because a studio that has a strong and empowered team of artists is a stronger studio. Those of us who get it, get it...and those who don't yet, look at wonderful works like "Abiogenesis" and wonder how just one person can create something like that. We all know how. It's true that LightWave is an amazing value with its beautiful renderer and all of the other features included, but more importantly, LightWave is Creative Freedom for artists.

Until next time. "


Bumped into this n thought it would be interesting to read.:hey:

RudySchneider
09-02-2012, 02:00 PM
And what was your precise goal for dredging up this very old bit of dreck? Certainly NOT something positive! Get with the times!

KillMe
09-02-2012, 02:18 PM
yeah think someone is fishing for negativity - as if anyone else is like me core is still a sensitive subject - but remember the old adage "DO NOT FEED THE TROLL"

jeric_synergy
09-02-2012, 02:21 PM
Boring troll is boring.

Shove off, 24 posts.

Amurrell
09-02-2012, 09:26 PM
Hopefully this thread can be locked soon? Thank you.

snsmoore
09-02-2012, 10:37 PM
I'll choose to look at the positive aspects! The announcement of Matt and Lino joining Newtek! And the mention of Rob's 1st anniversary. Great people make a great company and an excellent product.

And with Lightwave 11.5, we are seeing great results! It's a wonderful time to be a Lightwave owner!

TheDAve
09-03-2012, 05:55 AM
I'd actually say this was quite a positive post.

Just over a year ago there was a general feeling that things did not look that great and this post marked a change in direction.

Now, just 15 months later, version 11 has been released with a favorable response.
Lightwave has just had a very successful Siggraph.
We are all awaiting 11.5 which is looking even better.

If this is the turnaround in such a short timespan things look very bright in the future.

DAve

djwaterman
09-03-2012, 06:36 AM
Since I never knew anything about core at the time, I've never understood the bad vibes around this chapter of Lightwave's development, anyone who never bought into it was out of the loop so it's a bit of a mystery to us.
I found this letter illuminating and it seems pretty positive stuff to me.

Lewis
09-03-2012, 06:43 AM
That was Day when CORE died (officially ;)). RIP CORE :(.

BTW also not sure is this post necessary ?

DogBoy
09-03-2012, 06:54 AM
BTW also not sure is this post necessary ?

Oh, it's totally unnecessary, but who cares! It gets us away from work for 30 seconds to reply ;)

Lewis
09-03-2012, 07:00 AM
Oh, it's totally unnecessary, but who cares! It gets us away from work for 30 seconds to reply ;)

Heeh yeah waiting in between renders or bandsaw pro to finish undoing :).

Hail
09-03-2012, 07:17 AM
Boring troll is boring.

Shove off, 24 posts.

you f**kn shove of dude, why are you soo quick to conclude its negetive when it is indeed rather positive especially to the direction lw is going? cant you see the rational behind this? or are you that blind?:cursin::mad:

Not too long ago there was a debate about whether the path newtek is taking will ever bring about modifcation of the lw architecture and therefore unifcation of lw and there was the arguement that unification doesn't seem like a priority to newtek which is incorrect. hence, the rational behind this post.
I m obviously not fishing for negetivity neither am i playing any sort of mischief here but seeking to clarify and re-afirm the position newtek has taken on this subject cos it seems alot of folks here still dont get it and Rob's statement explains it all here.

kopperdrake
09-03-2012, 07:27 AM
Crikey, I personally view your initial post as a positive one, yes it does show how far LW has come in little over a year. Your reply above does seem quite angry though - I'm pretty sure you've over-reacted, judging by your language.

Now - we're all in a happy place at the moment, let's try and stay there. No need for anyone to get upset these days, even the T-shirts are out:

https://www.lightwave3d.com/buy-lightwave-gear/

:)

Lewis
09-03-2012, 07:34 AM
Not too long ago there was a debate about whether the path newtek is taking will ever bring about modifcation of the lw architecture and therefore unifcation of lw and there was the arguement that unification doesn't seem like a priority to newtek which is incorrect. hence, the rational behind this post.

OK, I'll bite, can you explain me how does this new/current direction show or showed us unification priority in 10.x or 11.x ? What's changed in workflow/paradigm between modeling/animating in 9.x and 10.x/11.x ? I don't see it (unification) so maybe i need to hear it to check myself maybe i missed it :).

Thanks

Hail
09-03-2012, 08:17 AM
OK, I'll bite, can you explain me how does this new/current direction show or showed us unification priority in 10.x or 11.x ? What's changed in workflow/paradigm between modeling/animating in 9.x and 10.x/11.x ? I don't see it (unification) so maybe i need to hear it to check myself maybe i missed it :).

Thanks

"Actually, we’re hard at work on other revisions and expansions at this very moment, to put real-world solutions into your hands as soon as possible, without taking our eyes off the longer term goals. We did not suddenly stop wanting an integrated application, or abandon the vision of working with incredibly large data sets. We didn't decide that making modeling adjustments from camera perspective is an unattainable dream, or that we don't need a robust scripting language with deep access to the program. These features are all on our minds for a reason. The team and I definitely understand why they are important. We can and will provide the innovations that our users need with our future development.


Moving forward, we are focusing on providing you amazing tools and an expanded architecture within LightWave, using CORE technology and frameworks to bring the functionality we all need and want to you in the quickest manner possible. CORE may serve interim roles in the development process where it seems appropriate, but ultimately it’s about delivering accessible real-world functionality to you. The plan has always been that incremental development would lead to a next generation LightWave. This has not changed. As artists and users, it’s about the destination and the journey along the way. We’ll continue to use CORE technology to develop when it makes sense to do so, but the ultimate delivery vehicle will be LightWave, not CORE 1.0.

Just to be clear the overall goal for the functionality and features that we all want has not changed, merely the product in which we will deliver them."


unification and major workflow overhauls are some of the long term goals Rob mentioned and as such 10x and 11x are WIPs so don't expect anything major towards unification at this stage but changes are on going under the hood regarding that.
And mind you, the goal has not changed only the vehicle has!!!

We are in for a big take though!

Waves of light
09-03-2012, 08:42 AM
I can see the positives in parts of that initial post. However, I can see how the post will bring anger from some when you have been a member on here since 2008 with only twenty odd posts. Plus you mentioned Core at a time when LightWave and the LightWave group are flying and don't really need to be reminded of past 'issues'.

Hail
09-03-2012, 08:52 AM
Crikey, I personally view your initial post as a positive one, yes it does show how far LW has come in little over a year. Your reply above does seem quite angry though - I'm pretty sure you've over-reacted, judging by your language.

Now - we're all in a happy place at the moment, let's try and stay there. No need for anyone to get upset these days, even the T-shirts are out:

https://www.lightwave3d.com/buy-lightwave-gear/

:)

Yeah perhaps I overeacted abit there but I hate getting acused wrongly, obviously not fair and it drives me mad.
Jeric did'nt read beyound the heading as it appears, but what can I say... I m cooling off now with chilled cozy bottle by my side:) can't get any better than this especially after a having volcano-ed? head.:beerchug:

Hail
09-03-2012, 09:17 AM
I can see the positives in parts of that initial post. However, I can see how the post will bring anger from some when you have been a member on here since 2008 with only twenty odd posts. Plus you mentioned Core at a time when LightWave and the LightWave group are flying and don't really need to be reminded of past 'issues'.

The angry times are over dude, quit living in the past for Christ SAKE these are happy days but its also worth looking at where we are coming from every once in a while to appreciate where we are and where we are going, atleast for me nothing makes me happier.

Plus some people are still sceptical about the direction the dev team is taking lw which is where Rob's statement of vision and direction comes in. For those sceptical it can be re-asuring of the future of lw.
As for the twenty posts its no big deal
Unlike some chaps who prefer to quickly fill up the forums with baseless arguements, I prefer filter mine down to logical and comprehensive discussions that others can benefit from and when I ve nothing worth reading to say.. I keep my mouth shut, so again no big deal about that yh?

In the mean time you might wanna grab yourself a bottle of beer cos its working magic here so no fuss:)

Lewis
09-03-2012, 10:13 AM
Hail - i think you are missing the point. I KNOW what they are/were saying/typing (new team, old team and few old teams before them 'coz I'm here for loong loong time by now, 18+ years and counting ;)).. Typing texts, statements and road-maps didn't get us unified LW many times in past s that's why i asked you to show me unified sign in 10.x or 11.x ?

I could show you completely different text/announcement before this one (and many of guys in charge now were back then too) and it would sound/look different so your quoted text don't mean anything really 'coz they can change team whenever they want and new new new one would/could say they aren't in charge for what previous one promised (which would be true) :). But as Rob once said "Proof is in the pudding". So until they deliver that pudding (unified, integrated, stack, history, parametric and animatable modeling tools) there is no proof (yet) :).

But still I'm quit positive abotu this New New team and their goal, just not sure how much of that is actually doable in LW code (without drastic changes to keep LW feel as some users were scared of any change), that's the key :) ;).

Hail
09-03-2012, 11:14 AM
I agree, too many of such promises had been made and broken in the past but lets not be sceptical, things have changed for better now.
10x 11x recieved alot of architectural changes that made once upon a time impossible to implement tools in lw possible today so that is one evidence of architectural modification there:) and as stated in the 10x 11x release notes there are more changes under the hood that have not been unveiled yet cos its still WIP but I guess it wont be long before we ll start seeing the true form of the new architecture. :)

Lewis
09-03-2012, 11:33 AM
10x 11x recieved alot of architectural changes that made once upon a time impossible to implement tools in lw possible today so that is one evidence of architectural modification there:)

That's not in question, no doubt they changed/added a LOT and LW 11 is best LW up to date (but then LW 6.x added a lot from 5.x, 7.x added a lot from 6.x, 8.x from 7.x, 9.x from 8 etc. etc.. you get the point ;)).

I'm just saying none of that showed any indication of unification so I'm just saying 10.x and 11.x do not show that or offer to users.

And no I'm not negative at all, i like this new team and guys/girls really work hard to provide us best tools they can. I just don't like when people "read" in between lines something what's not actually there (i.e. unification proof/concept) and then speculations start.

Hail
09-03-2012, 12:15 PM
"I'm just saying none of that showed any indication of unification so I'm just saying 10.x and 11.x do not show that or offer to users."

Is it not too early to expect such indications at this point considering the amount of work involved?
And for all you know the ground work has already been done if the "under the hood changes" statement is anything to go by:D

I love speculations!:)

Lewis
09-03-2012, 01:12 PM
Is it not too early to expect such indications at this point considering the amount of work involved?

Depends how you look at it, what's the start of that :)? VPR got included in LWHC which started 3+ years ago (mid 2009) :). So if that's indication of CORE tech in LW then it's already 3 years gone and no integration. Is that too early or not it's hard to say now but it's not "overnight" for sure.



And for all you know the ground work has already been done if the "under the hood changes" statement is anything to go by:D

I love speculations!:)

Yeah you love them (obviously :)) but they hurt more than you think. People then expect much more than they get and then NT don't get as many updates as they might if expectations are realistic/real.

Waves of light
09-03-2012, 01:43 PM
The angry times are over dude, quit living in the past for Christ SAKE these are happy days

At no point did I say I was one of those people living in the past, thank you very much. I've already upgraded, bought the t-shirt and I'm currently enjoying a beer. :beerchug:

50one
09-03-2012, 02:14 PM
This thread need some unicorns:

http://www.jeffgothelf.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/unicorn.jpg
http://cache2.allpostersimages.com/p/LRG/38/3862/C8GJF00Z/posters/unicorn.jpg

I'm upgrading next week:)

Waves of light
09-03-2012, 02:18 PM
Maybe I've had too many beers .... I'm seeing unicorns!

Oedo 808
09-03-2012, 02:38 PM
Maybe I've had too many beers

Outrageous statement, wash your mouth out with... more beers! :beerchug:

Hail
09-03-2012, 02:54 PM
At no point did I say I was one of those people living in the past, thank you very much. I've already upgraded, bought the t-shirt and I'm currently enjoying a beer. :beerchug:

on that note we ve disagreed to agree, :)
shall we ve a toast to many more happy light years ahead :beerchug:

Hail
09-03-2012, 02:55 PM
At no point did I say I was one of those people living in the past, thank you very much. I've already upgraded, bought the t-shirt and I'm currently enjoying a beer. :beerchug:

on that note we ve disagreed to agree, :)
shall we ve a toast to many more happy light years ahead then? :beerchug:

Hail
09-03-2012, 04:00 PM
Depends how you look at it, what's the start of that :)? VPR got included in LWHC which started 3+ years ago (mid 2009) :). So if that's indication of CORE tech in LW then it's already 3 years gone and no integration. Is that too early or not it's hard to say now but it's not "overnight" for sure.



Yeah you love them (obviously :)) but they hurt more than you think. People then expect much more than they get and then NT don't get as many updates as they might if expectations are realistic/real.

well.. realistically 3 years to turn classic lw into core is unrealistic looking at the amount of work that has to go into it. heck! even modo's animation tools are still half baked after nearly 10 years of dev? so it still too early in the game to draw such conclusions if you asked me. but I understeand your point however I d rather keep my hopes high since it is still on the to do list of the lw3d group. it also helps the moral of the dev guys better.
and for people's expectations I think nt has learnt to manage them better( learnt through the painful way though) and its has all been good ever since, atleast for the time being.

now back to rolling bottles.:)

Vong
09-03-2012, 04:36 PM
Wait... You can drink _TOO MANY_ beers? Why didn't I get the memo on that?

On topic... I believe that it was late last year or early this year that Rob said he had a 3 year road map for unifying classic LW, _NOT_ turning classic LW into Core. Those are 2 completely different problems. Unification may not be exactly how/what everyone wants in it's first iteration, but it will be unified. I'm willing to wait a few more versions/years to see if Rob and the Team can pull it off. They've proven to me they know what they're doing so far.

erikals
09-03-2012, 05:30 PM
Maybe I've had too many beers .... I'm seeing unicorns!

hm, so this Vodka ain't working, i only see two squirrels...
http://www.erikalstad.com/backup/SQ.png

kopperdrake
09-04-2012, 04:47 AM
Squirrels?

I can only see big pink floaty elephants...

...<swig>...