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View Full Version : Node groups: Fitt's Law: biggest possible target/wasted space



jeric_synergy
09-01-2012, 11:02 PM
reposting to the public area:
Fitt's Law essentially states that the bigger the target, the faster the access.

Lately LW has seemed very "fussy" to me. Case in point: the Node Editor node groupings. By fussy I mean that the target areas for mouse actions seem to be becoming smaller.

Currently you have to --'have' as in 'must'-- hit the small triangle at the edge of the group name to "twirl down" (to use Adobe nomenclature) or open the group, ie to see the nodes.

FITT'S LAW: which is easier/faster to hit, the small triangle or the entire group name (which includes the triangle)? Answer: the group name. Therefore dbl-clicking the group name should open the group.

Not only that, but the group name has ZERO interface function: you cannot drag it, you cannot rename it, you cannot delete it. That portion of the screen has no interactive function, SO IT MIGHT AS WELL OPEN THE GROUP.

+++

And I continue to be amazed one can't just DRAG a node into the editor. The Node Editor is SO 'clicky'. Yuck.

evenflcw
09-02-2012, 07:51 AM
+1

It's a good observation and motivation. I agree. It could likely be done by calling the expand tree node code from the list element selection callback (which should be triggered when you click the text portion).

Drag-and-droppin elements from one control to another would indeed be nice. But that is pretty advanced by LWs GUI standards as most everything is self-contained and not designed to play along with outside stimulus.

jeric_synergy
09-02-2012, 08:57 AM
+1

It's a good observation and motivation. I agree. It could likely be done by calling the expand tree node code from the list element selection callback (which should be triggered when you click the text portion).
Excellent! So happy there's a clear route to get to this capability.

I don't think there's much controversy as to whether this is a good idea, it's always nice when it's easier to do something. (Masochists can still force themselves to hit the triangle if they wish. :hey: )

Drag-and-droppin elements from one control to another would indeed be nice. But that is pretty advanced by LWs GUI standards as most everything is self-contained and not designed to play along with outside stimulus.
So, drag+drop isn't supported at a low level in the current panel SDK?

Ugh. Primitive --If the current ui were reimplemented in QT, would we gain such (basic) capabilities??

evenflcw
09-02-2012, 09:54 AM
Not supported. There's alot of fundamental groundwork that needs to be added to get there. With QT you might get the groundwork (proper object oriented controls), but there is alot of work involved in recreating existing controls and reimplement the sdk for QT controls. Nomatter what route, it's alot of work. It's hard to say which route is better.

jeric_synergy
09-02-2012, 10:23 AM
With QT you might get the groundwork (proper object oriented controls), but there is alot of work involved in recreating existing controls and reimplement the sdk for QT controls. Nomatter what route, it's alot of work. It's hard to say which route is better.
I think CORE revealed that the UI philosophy/style is popular, so might as well get started. :)

In actuality, I'm reasonably sure Rob, Matt, and the rest of the devs are far past that point.

The Node Editor is so patently improvable (i.e. there's just so many obvious weaknesses) that it attracts a lot of fire, especially since nodes are so powerful and we WANT to use them, despite the lameness of the editor.

(Some of the weaknesses are so alien to LW ("F" for fit? REALLY??? Idiocy. Makes me want to spit.) it's like the developer never used LW. :devil: Makes one appreciate Blender's unity of design. )

Jim M
09-04-2012, 04:40 AM
LW has group nodes?

evenflcw
09-04-2012, 05:09 AM
He means menu groups in the node menu to the left of the window.

But LW has group node through 3rd party TrueArts. This should not be discussed here. Search the forum.

Jim M
09-04-2012, 05:12 AM
Yes sir....