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View Full Version : Autodesk loses 22% of stock value/ Lays off 7% of staff (500 Laid Off)



robertoortiz
08-24-2012, 06:20 AM
Quote:
"Design software firm*Autodesk*has lost 22 percent of its value in after-hours trading on the NASDAQ exchange after a particularly bad*earnings report*for its fiscal second quarter.Autodesk is a leading maker of 3D design and engineering software. It recently agreed to*acquire fast growing video app Socialcam for $60 million*to help it stay relevant.The company’s second-quarter profit fell 9.3 percent year-over-year. Revenue was $569 million, a paltry increase of 4 percent year-over-year. Wall Street analysts were expecting revenue of $601 million, according to Thomson Reuters.“Our own execution challenges, combined with an imogen global economy, resulted in disappointing revenue results for the quarter,” Autodesk CEO Carl Bass said in a statement. “Organizational changes we made within the company earlier this year slowed us down during the quarter. Despite our second quarter results, the changes better position Autodesk to meet the needs of our customers. We are focused on working through our internal challenges as rapidly as possible.”Additionally, Autodesk cut its full-year sales growth forecast. On top of its prior layoffs, it plans to cut more staff to help deal with its financial woes.At the time of post’s publication, Autodesk shares are*trading*at $27.80, down $7.91 (or 22.1 percent) from its closing price today of $35.71. The drop in price more than eliminates the*18 percent gain*the stock made
this year."

http://www.rttnews.com/1953342/autodesk-results-miss-estimates-outlook-weak.aspx?pageNum=1


""

http://mashable.com/2012/08/23/autodesk-lays-off-7-of-entire-staff/

50one
08-24-2012, 07:35 AM
...Yet they bought another cool 3D tech so no-one else will lay his/her hands on it...

zapper1998
08-24-2012, 09:02 AM
Autodesk the WalMart of software...

:)

stiff paper
08-24-2012, 10:57 AM
It would be interesting to know whether AD's problems are caused by a general falloff in "Entertainment Creation" software sales or if it's just that they're a bloated, top-heavy mess. If it's a general falloff, that could be the start of a rough patch for everyone.

As it is, it's certainly a bad thing for the people they've let go.

jeric_synergy
08-24-2012, 11:41 AM
I suspect (ha! I'm sitting here munching popcorn) that they are expriencing the OPPOSITE of what LightWave is enjoying right now.

WE got a leader with actual experience;

in the field, and
leading groups of people to
accomplish something complex
with tight deadlines,


who has a real passion for the product.

I don't know who AD has, but they've hired bean-counters in the past who've killed products because they Just Don't Understand.

zarti
08-24-2012, 12:22 PM
22% is a good start .

7% is good too .

the future is bright .

when will 'ose sell XSI ?

souzou
08-24-2012, 12:33 PM
Quote:
On top of its prior layoffs, it plans to cut more staff to help deal with its financial woes.

Financial woes? The world of large corporates makes no sense to me. When you look at their figures, they still made $92million QUARTERLY pre-tax profit on revenue of $568million, with revenue growth of 4% (compared to US growth of what, 2%?). Oh and they have $1bn cash in the bank. So in response to these dire financial figures they make 7% of their staff redundant. Way to go.

Verlon
08-24-2012, 03:58 PM
Corporations often use poor economic times in general as a way to lay off workers. I feel for the people losing their livelihood, as there is no good time for that to happen.

While I am no fan of Autodesk, they have made their own contributions to 3D, and I do hope the talent they are shedding lands safely (economically speaking).

If a couple of really killer programmers find work improving applications I DO use, even better.

tyrot
08-24-2012, 07:29 PM
[QUOTE=jeric_synergy;1267228]I suspect (ha! I'm sitting here munching popcorn) that they are expriencing the OPPOSITE of what LightWave is enjoying right now.

rest of the post i totally agree..but i like your actual response to this thread - munching pop corn :) i loved it.)

autodesk goes bankrupt!
response
munching more pop-corn using lightwave with happy face :)


THanks Rob for the positive waves ...really
also i gotta mention his name - after Matt joins newtek - WHOLE design of lightwave has changed and updated. I believe from a visual stand point - iMatt entered that building...and Lightwave started to look awesome..

So after all these dark years of lightwave - i am really munching pop corn over Autodesk condition... the goliath has finally started to eat itself ..

robpowers3d
08-24-2012, 07:46 PM
Thanks for your kind words everyone. We ultimately hate to see good developers loose their jobs. A company is nothing but the people that make it up and I am so lucky to have such a great team to work with. I wish the 500 people laid off at Autodesk the best in this difficult time.

Snosrap
08-24-2012, 07:55 PM
It would be interesting to know whether AD's problems are caused by a general falloff in "Entertainment Creation" software sales
DDC sales are probably a very small portion of AD's overall business. Not so much on units sold, but dollars brought in. AD is huge and most of their employees probably have never even heard of Maya.

Titus
08-24-2012, 07:59 PM
500 is a lot of people and families, I feel really sad for everyone. However, with so many aquisitions in the past years maybe there's a lot of redundancy. Of course (IMO) this was done more to please investors than anything.

This for sure will mark a slowdown in their development, for NT it's an opportunity to keep innovating and gain positions in this game.

tyrot
08-24-2012, 08:04 PM
.This for sure will mark a slowdown in their development, for NT it's an opportunity to keep innovating and gain positions in this game.

totally agree

I just remembered the XSI guys when they swallowed by Autodesk.. they were really so depressed but not saying anything bad.. I hope they are ok.. :(

lwanmtr
08-24-2012, 11:20 PM
Pretty sad about the 500 employees (ill bet the XSI guys went first).

AD was trying to expand to far to grab up every technology they could and it's now coming back on them. Proves that sometimes smaller is better.

zarti
08-25-2012, 01:44 AM
if that 7% is xsi staff , this could b a great opportunity or a 'new' investor to buy xsi code and its coders . ( maybe thats because they bought Nayad , to get particles fom it not xsi )

xsi doesnt deserve to be where it is actually .

if it was 'free' , that could be not good for lw , but it wd be absolutely a good thing .

that wd return the smile over its users' face , which have invested a lot on it too .



.cheers

stiff paper
08-25-2012, 04:21 AM
Financial woes? The world of large corporates makes no sense to me. When you look at their figures, they still made $92million QUARTERLY pre-tax profit on revenue of $568million...

This is the glory of The Market at work. Once upon a time (i.e. before the early 1980s) it was enough to run your business, employ your employees, sell what you sell, and if you come in at the end of every year with enough money to cover everything and then still have some decent pure profit on top of that... well, you were pretty much doing fine.

Now, because of the way everything has been maneuvered since the start of the 1980s with regards to shareholders and The Market, you have to pay out more money, and then more money, and more, and more... and every year more... and you have to keep going every year paying out more and more money to the shareholders. Forever. Until one year you don't make enough profit (in this case "only" $92 million) to please your shareholders and The Market, and so in order to make all your numbers work, the only thing to do is to sack 500 people to buy yourself some time, because the money you save will look good on the bottom line to the shareholders.

And this is called EFFICIENCY and COMPETITIVENESS. And don't you dare disagree and say that's not what it looks like to you.


when will 'ose sell XSI ?
I suppose it's possible that they'll sell off XSI, but I really can't see it happening. They'd essentially be setting up a competitor with a ready-made platform. If they want to stop devoting resources to XSI then it makes far more sense from their point of view to simply kill it off and bury it. Very sad, but also pretty obvious.

mouse_art
08-25-2012, 04:51 AM
Actually and sadly most of the XSI Devs. are now working on Maya, and XSI got an almost(no one knows the exact number) new Dev. team in/from malaysia.

Edit: And quite a few quit entirely.


totally agree

I just remembered the XSI guys when they swallowed by Autodesk.. they were really so depressed but not saying anything bad.. I hope they are ok.. :(

kfinla
08-25-2012, 06:18 AM
Ya limitless growth isn't really a sustainable model. I think I recall the DCC entertainment space was about 300K users. The CAD space, perhaps between 1M-2M users.

Likely the userbases needs to grow 10% every year to keep up with shareholder profit demands. So until Grandma stops doing her fluid sims in blender, and switches to Nparticles its a problem.

jeric_synergy
08-25-2012, 10:07 AM
So until Grandma stops doing her fluid sims in blender, and switches to Nparticles its a problem.
Good thing some people are trying to cut her benefits and medical coverage. That'll get the old bat out of the way for new customers.

stiff paper
08-25-2012, 10:27 AM
Well my grandma does all her fluid sims in Naiad... so HAH!

Oh... wait...

roboman
08-25-2012, 11:00 AM
It's probably an even mix of the economy and Solidworks taking a sizable chunk of their CAD business. They are still making a good profit, just not as much as expected. A huge problem Autodesk has is they the monster company in their niche and have no where to grow. Hate to see another 500 people getting layed off local to me, or any where for that matter. I don't think this is going to have a great effect on Lightwave. All the great stuff NT has done lately is much more relevant.

jeric_synergy
08-25-2012, 11:07 AM
Hopefully Solidworks can vacuum up some of those people. It's not nice to be unemployed, esp. when you're not used to it.

hrgiger
08-25-2012, 05:04 PM
Actually and sadly most of the XSI Devs. are now working on Maya, and XSI got an almost(no one knows the exact number) new Dev. team in/from malaysia.

Edit: And quite a few quit entirely.

Actually I think some of the original XSI guys are now building their own 3D development application called Fabric Engine http://fabricengine.com/ And it looks amazing.

cresshead
08-25-2012, 05:14 PM
Actually I think some of the original XSI guys are now building their own 3D development application called Fabric Engine http://fabricengine.com/ And it looks amazing.

seems to be a 3rd party plugin for maya actually from that page unless i'm mistaken.

hrgiger
08-25-2012, 05:21 PM
seems to be a 3rd party plugin for maya actually from that page unless i'm mistaken.

No, its not a plug-in. Its an application builder. There's just a maya integration that can utilize the high performance fabric engine core to do maya tasks.

m.d.
08-25-2012, 05:54 PM
feel free to integrate some fabric engine stuff Rob....

you guys dont have to write all the code :)

robertoortiz
08-26-2012, 05:38 AM
feel free to integrate some fabric engine stuff Rob....

you guys dont have to write all the code :)

this reminds me of the old proverb
"The enemy of my friend "

prometheus
08-26-2012, 06:10 AM
Thanks for your kind words everyone. We ultimately hate to see good developers loose their jobs. A company is nothing but the people that make it up and I am so lucky to have such a great team to work with. I wish the 500 people laid off at Autodesk the best in this difficult time.

8 months ago the swedish automobile manufacturer SAAB, went bankrupt and 2860 employees lost their jobs, it seems that more than 1750 of them has gone to new jobs where something around 1045 of the jobs are full time.

most important that they build network connections, and government helps out with resources education and other means to help out, then it´s a matter of your own strenght and endurance to keep searching and make connections.
Being at the right place at the right time is extremely important too...I know, how to work that out the best way is a mystery to me though.

Hopefully these guys from autodesk will find their way to other companies that are more willing to invest and has the resources to do so.
Maybe some really talented guys could be hired at newtek? :;
That is if Newtek´s own economics and current status allows it and the need is there, which I have no clue to how that is:D

A sad thing is when times are rough, cutting down on staff is one of the most effective ways to save money on, I whish there could be other ways.

Michael

jeric_synergy
08-26-2012, 09:05 AM
It's important not to confuse hrgiger and robpowers3d. The similar avatar gets me regularly (but I have no problem with that, HR!). Just saying... :)
I wish hr would make the difference more glaring: it's kinda creepy, like he wants to BE rob, in a horror/slasher movie kinda way. >I^P

I suggest coloring in the white areas over the shoulder, so we can perceive it without having to look. Isn't that the point of avatars? Not looking like other users.

jeric_synergy
08-26-2012, 09:06 AM
..., and government helps out with resources education and other means to help out, ...
Don't say that in Tampa this week. That's "the 'S' word".

prometheus
08-26-2012, 09:45 AM
I wish hr would make the difference more glaring: it's kinda creepy, like he wants to BE rob, in a horror/slasher movie kinda way. >I^P

I suggest coloring in the white areas over the shoulder, so we can perceive it without having to look. Isn't that the point of avatars? Not looking like other users.

I guess an avatar should really represent yourself as an icon representation in internet forums I guess, but since It´s way cooler to be something else ..that sometimes takes propertions of godlike avatars, unfortunatly some of them are more or less incarnations of others.

Aint it cool to fool yourself youre an beeing of light? ..incarnated in some Avatar when there´s darkness all around us.
(not sure I know what I´m talking about here, maybe something got lost in the transmission of me to Avatar me:))
I need to redo my Avatar soon by the way.

Michael

prometheus
08-26-2012, 09:47 AM
Don't say that in Tampa this week. That's "the 'S' word".

Aha..can´t quite follow that Im afraid, No help at all I suspect?

Michael

Cougar12dk
08-26-2012, 09:57 AM
this reminds me of the old proverb
"The enemy of my friend "

"the enemy of my enemy, is my friend"?

jeric_synergy
08-26-2012, 10:28 AM
Aha..can´t quite follow that Im afraid, No help at all I suspect?
Michael
It's a U.S. thing: count yourself lucky to not be here for the next couple months. :(

Come to think of it, Sweden in the fall sounds lovely. ::sigh::

prometheus
08-26-2012, 11:46 AM
It's a U.S. thing: count yourself lucky to not be here for the next couple months. :(

Come to think of it, Sweden in the fall sounds lovely. ::sigh::

Well..I just love autumn, or at least late summer august to late september..Im not fond of juli hot summer days really, this summer was an exeption since it was raining most time, and I love rain..but could have been a little warmer though, unfortunatly autumn is to short..I just love the red colors of the trees and the little colder fresher air that comes together with people starting their fireplaces at home and you fell that in the air with a mix from Annas famous gingerbread which is located in my commune.

The economics is still quite strong after all the crises around in europe, but still we do have some of the highest unemployment in the history of sweden, luckily my company I work for has only been getting stronger the last four years..seemingly unaffected of the crises.

Im lucky to be with a company doing well for the moment, doing marketing,web stuff,illustrations, computer management and some 3d renders of the machines ..so I hope it continues that way, we have goals to expand internationally, and we will most likely need to expand on personeel with sales, construction etc.

I know I will probably have full up showcasing full 3d gym plans, which we currently only provide with 2 overview illustrations, since requests from clients have been that they really want 3d plans of it.

Lightwave´s instancing will come handy when putting in several spinning machines or treadmills in the 3d plan´s, I would love to have sort of Modo´s cad loaders though.

A note about my employment, since I was regarded a long time unemployed, I was eligable for the state´s program of fonding, which ment that the state pays around 80% of my salery and the rest is up to the company to provide.
This was during a time span of around one and a half year, meantime I had the chance to prove my skills and and my working effort, and since then I am now full time employee even though the company now has to pay all of my salery.

Of course..this couldn´t have been possible without the very good finance and state budget acomplished mainly thanks to the former government...we were on the plus side at 2006, but now that has changed to a heavy minus account.
(oops..this isn´t the place for politics) sorry.

To sum it up anyway..there´s worse places to be than in sweden...we got Great tasting gingerbread, we got great looking girls..and we do not have any huge nature disasters coming our way such as hurricanes.:D

Knowledge of max,maya will give you more options of work in sweden though if your working with 3d.

Michael

jeric_synergy
08-26-2012, 12:26 PM
Knowledge of max,maya will give you more options of work in sweden though if your working with 3d.
Michael
>;^) I was holding out for the Czech Republic: that place is kahh-RAZY! And has a wacky animation heritage.

Plus: brunettes. :bday:

prometheus
08-26-2012, 12:46 PM
>;^) I was holding out for the Czech Republic: that place is kahh-RAZY! And has a wacky animation heritage.

Plus: brunettes. :bday:

yeah..I know about those too.:) norwegian,swedish and cech´s...that would be a fancy dinner.

Was checking some jobs at a good work site, and found some at the first page already, maya users prefered though and gaming related, jobs are described in english..there was one more with maya experience for net entertainment which delivers some big games, but that job list wasn´t in english so I rule that out here.

One thing to think about working overseas, not sure if czech republik has a culture of being able to speak and work within the english language?
In sweden that is probably not an issue, since many of us have english from second grade and up I think, but maybe that´s the same in Czech republik?

here´s some job listings of pretty much typical experience for many 3d related jobs in sweden, games, construction and vizualisation is mostly available, the job descriptions is in English, all stockholm based
game companies.

http://www.workey.se/jobb/id.1xrhr/t.3d-artist/

http://www.workey.se/jobb/id.1xfyx/t.artist-at-dice/

I so which for producers and television companies in Sweden to start doing cool series requiring some fast get it done vfx, but that aint happening here it seems, maybe some day.
It´s much cheaper to buy in to foreign series and only produce docu soap and different competition series.

Michael

jeric_synergy
08-26-2012, 04:55 PM
One thing to think about working overseas, not sure if czech republik has a culture of being able to speak and work within the english language?
I don't know either. Everyone in the tourist zone sure spoke good English, better than me for the most part.
[QUOTE=prometheus;1267690]here´s some job listings of pretty much typical experience for many 3d related jobs in sweden, games, construction and vizualisation is mostly available, the job descriptions is in English, all stockholm based
game companies.

http://www.workey.se/jobb/id.1xrhr/t.3d-artist/

http://www.workey.se/jobb/id.1xfyx/t.artist-at-dice/

I so which for producers and television companies in Sweden to start doing cool series requiring some fast get it done vfx, but that aint happening here it seems, maybe some day.
It´s much cheaper to buy in to foreign series and only produce docu soap and different competition series.
Michael
"Soap"?? "Competition series"??

::sigh:: I'm going to expend my energy on getting up to speed on C4D, as that seems the most likely route to gigs locally. Once/if I get stabilized, I'll look into Maya. LOL, one step at a time. :hey:

It's not like my LW chops set the world on fire after all: I couldn't get work on "Iron Sky", for instance, and rightly so. --That woulda been a hell of a learning experience, had I survived.

Thanks for the leads!

m.d.
08-27-2012, 12:50 AM
It's important not to confuse hrgiger and robpowers3d. The similar avatar gets me regularly (but I have no problem with that, HR!). Just saying... :)

ha i noticed that after and felt like an idiot.....but let it ride hoping no one would notice....thanks oliver:thumbsup:

meshpig
08-27-2012, 06:43 AM
I suspect (ha! I'm sitting here munching popcorn) that they are expriencing the OPPOSITE of what LightWave is enjoying right now.

WE got a leader with actual experience;

in the field, and
leading groups of people to
accomplish something complex
with tight deadlines,


who has a real passion for the product.

I don't know who AD has, but they've hired bean-counters in the past who've killed products because they Just Don't Understand.

Yep, the whole point of capitalism is monopoly and just about anything will do. LIke my telco can't fix my phone but can give me cheap shirt deals for xmas. It's a f*cking joke really:)

shrox
08-27-2012, 12:01 PM
If AutoDesk hadn't jumped the shark by going from 3DStudio to 3DMax V.1 beta, I'd might have never been introduced to Lightwave 4.0.

MarkJoel60
08-27-2012, 04:08 PM
Actually, this whole thing smacks of "Forced Ranking" or "Stacked Ranking" -- which is a stupid Orwellian practice that is very popular by a lot of large mega corporations. (Microsoft being one of the most obvious...) AD certainly qualifies, and if that is what this is, the creativity of the company will quickly spiral downhill, that's for sure.

The "Bad Economy" is probably an excuse. I worked for a company once that did this... The good news for those who got laid off -- if you can call it that -- is that it truly wasn't personal... They didn't even really get laid off because they were bad performers... it's just reverse evolution-ism at its worst.

John C. Dvorak explains it better than I can:

Evils of Stack Ranking (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2406673,00.asp)

But, it is doubtful that all XSI or all MAX or all anyone was laid off. This is probably across the board...

Ryan Roye
08-27-2012, 04:32 PM
I feel for the employees who lost their jobs... I know what its like to be laid off due to downsizing.

As far as the business itself... I'm not too worried. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhKBp61OhJg&feature=g-u-u)

robertoortiz
08-27-2012, 10:08 PM
This might be of interest:
Quote:
"Autodesk is shifting away from traditional desktop-based computing and toward applications that can be delivered over the Web. As the largest seller of engineering software, its products have been used in everything from bridge design to the special effects in the movie “Avatar.”

Last month, the company said it’s spending $60 million to purchase Socialcam Inc. as it expands in the consumer market. Socialcam offers a smartphone application and Web-based service that lets users capture, edit and share videos.

“Despite our second quarter results, the changes better position Autodesk to meet the needs of our customers,” Bass said. "

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-08-23/autodesk-lowers-annual-forecast-cuts-jobs-in-restructuring-plan

prometheus
08-28-2012, 01:43 AM
This might be of interest:
Quote:
"Autodesk is shifting away from traditional desktop-based computing and toward applications that can be delivered over the Web. A[/url]

Oh my, I hate to see business and applications going that route, Personally I believe their are digging their own grave doing such thing, just my thoughts.

Michael

lwanmtr
08-28-2012, 03:13 AM
Apple did the same thing with Final Cut...killed it.

Verlon
08-28-2012, 05:57 AM
I like the apple app store system. I do not need to look for disks or serial numbers or activation keys or call Microsoft to explain why I need to reinstall the software I paid for on my own computer. I just log in and download. One stop shopping for software updates is also pretty nice. Once it is installed, I just run it.

cresshead
08-28-2012, 06:44 AM
I like the apple app store system. I do not need to look for disks or serial numbers or activation keys or call Microsoft to explain why I need to reinstall the software I paid for on my own computer. I just log in and download. One stop shopping for software updates is also pretty nice. Once it is installed, I just run it.

yup i like the apple app store for ipad and imac...works so simply:thumbsup:

rcallicotte
08-28-2012, 07:26 AM
I don't mind not getting a disk for installation. But, running an application over the web is a stupid idea and begins to take away the ownership of the buyer. If we can't see it, then it will happen - business works that way.

robertoortiz
08-28-2012, 08:55 AM
Quote:
"Our future lies online: Autodesk CEO Carl Bass, interviewed by TechCrunch’s Andrew Keen in April" (video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J7R1BuJYK8&feature=player_embedded#!

Titus
08-28-2012, 10:00 AM
I don't mind not getting a disk for installation. But, running an application over the web is a stupid idea and begins to take away the ownership of the buyer. If we can't see it, then it will happen - business works that way.

You, me, all. We have never been owners of the software, we only get a license to use it, not to own it. But yes, before the license was for the person, and now is for the machine. Every day our options are narrower, and I don't like it, doesn't matter how easy is to get the software.

robertoortiz
08-28-2012, 10:34 AM
In the past i have posted a long list of issues that I have with the cloud.
So I AM ON RECORD for being against this.
What concerns me right now is that, like it or not, we are being collectively herded into it.
I guess the question is, will the vast majority of pro users comply? Or do we have another
FINAL CUT X scenario in our hands?

Celshader
08-28-2012, 11:48 AM
Quote:
"Our future lies online: Autodesk CEO Carl Bass, interviewed by TechCrunch’s Andrew Keen in April" (video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J7R1BuJYK8&feature=player_embedded#!

Anyone else listen to this?

From http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J7R1BuJYK8#t=02m23s

Autodesk CEO Carl Bass: "I'd say two to three years from now, every one of our products will be used online. The ONLY way to use them will be online."

ShadowMystic
08-28-2012, 11:58 AM
I have harddisks of all my professional software. Steam I don't mind. But my work is how I live I must beable to install JIC

DigitalSorcery8
08-28-2012, 01:38 PM
It will be interesting to see how this transpires. I can't see big studios being online all of the time just to use the software. "I'm" not a big studio and I don't have my workstations online and won't. This may end up being an opportunity for the smaller providers - ie. Newtek, Maxon, Lux - to continue to provide topnotch software NOT on the cloud where studios can use it as they wish. I'd love to see several years into "the cloud" where AD does a complete 180 because they are "listening to their customers and our customers say they don't want the cloud." Of course had they listened to them before they went that route...

robertoortiz
08-28-2012, 01:46 PM
Well ican tell you point blank that there is no way in this God's green earth that in a classifed enviroment they will allow a cloud based program.
Most of the people I know here inthe DC area are blown away that AD is going in this direction.

DigitalSorcery8
08-28-2012, 01:54 PM
Well... unless there is something that we all don't KNOW about "the cloud" and they have a different way of using it... I agree, I can't see studios OR government agencies agreeing to go this route. No matter how "secure" they end up stating it will be, it can't be as secure as NOT being connected online.

Titus
08-28-2012, 01:55 PM
I've had some hints from friends working at MS, it seems Windows at some moment in the future will be also cloud based.

DigitalSorcery8
08-28-2012, 01:56 PM
I've had some hints from friends working at MS, it seems Windows at some moment in the future will be also cloud based.

Looks like Linux may end up being seriously mainstream. :)

robertoortiz
08-28-2012, 02:01 PM
My friends in the DC are used to ask me ALL THE TIME, why I still supported Lightwave.
And these are top of the line users. They do things from forensice animation, classified work for DOD to animations for CBTs.
The funny thing is that about a year ago, the jokes of why I made my studio a LW shop have stopped. And trust me wgen i say that they are scared.

jeric_synergy
08-28-2012, 02:35 PM
??? Unless you get some overwhelming advantage, I don't see the point. Until you can distribute processing, no thanks.

robertoortiz
08-28-2012, 02:52 PM
Wow this is scary in terms of the state of the industry:

http://gfxspeak.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/ADSK-2Q13-quarterly-by-division-e1345770000973.jpg
"Revenue by product divisions

Revenue from the Platform Solutions and Emerging Business segment was $218 million, up 10% compared to the second quarter last year. Bass said AutoCAD and AutoCAD LT sales were stronger than expected in most regions. At the start of the last recession sales of AutoCAD and AutoCAD LT plummeted before other Autodesk products.

AEC revenue was $161 million, up 2% from a year earlier. Bass noted the transition to BIM continues to be a multi-year process. During the quarter Autodesk introduced a set of online tools for AEC project management called BIM 360, and acquired Vela Systems for BIM tools related to construction management.

Manufacturing revenue was $141 million, up 4% from a year ago.

Revenue from the Media and Entertainment business segment was $49 million, down 10% from a year ago. Bass did not offer any explanation for the unit’s poor results during the analysts’ conference call.

Revenue from Flagship Products (primarily AutoCAD and AutoCAD LT) was $318 million, up 3% from a year earlier. Revenue from Suites was $166 million, up 5% from 2Q12. Revenue from New and Adjacent products was $85 million, up 5% from a year ago.

Cash per share (CPS) on July 31, 2012 was $4.04, continuing a downward trend going back 12 months when CPS was $6.72. In addition to costs associated with the reorganization and the push into cloud and mobile technologies, Autodesk acquired Vela Systems for an unstated amount and mobile video utility Socialcam for $60 million. If Autodesk has not purchased Socialcam its CPS would be $4.34.

"
http://gfxspeak.com/2012/08/23/autodesk-execution-challenges-lead-to-flat-second-quarter/

Celshader
08-28-2012, 03:06 PM
My friends in the DC are used to ask me ALL THE TIME, why I still supported Lightwave.
And these are top of the line users. They do things from forensice animation, classified work for DOD to animations for CBTs.
The funny thing is that about a year ago, the jokes of why I made my studio a LW shop have stopped. And trust me wgen i say that they are scared.

Do any of them know how the cloud-based Max and Maya platforms will work with third-party software plug-ins like VRay, Rayfire, Krakatoa, and FumeFX?

Or how Pixologic's GoZ will integrate with cloud-based Autodesk software?

cresshead
08-28-2012, 03:11 PM
Do any of them know how the cloud-based Max and Maya platforms will work with third-party software plug-ins like VRay, Rayfire, Krakatoa, and FumeFX?

Or how Pixologic's GoZ will integrate with cloud-based Autodesk software?

you'll need em installed on the host machine the other side of your screen in their data centre!

as for zbrush...they'll say no...you need mudbox!:goodluck:

DigitalSorcery8
08-28-2012, 03:13 PM
as for zbrush...they'll say no...you need mudbox!:goodluck:
The polar opposite of the attitude Newtek now has - which is play nice with other apps.

Cryonic
08-28-2012, 03:41 PM
I could see AD releasing a cloud version of their apps for government work and such where the firm buying the software runs their own, private cloud.

The advantage of the cloud is that the apps only need to be kept up to date in one location rather than at each desktop, but the desktop is the system doing the work when running the app (like a mixed mode between the old dummy terminals and mainframes vs the current desktop models). It would also allow an administrator to control who could access which apps and giving someone access to an app would be far simpler than having to actually go install it on their system.

lwanmtr
08-28-2012, 03:47 PM
Problem with cloud based apps is that you cannot work if you arent connected to the network.

I for one, prefer to have my apps local, then I can control all the aspects of it.

AbstractTech3D
08-28-2012, 03:57 PM
Actually I think some of the original XSI guys are now building their own 3D development application called Fabric Engine http://fabricengine.com/ And it looks amazing.


I really would like to know more about this in general terms... but finding the info over my head.

……..

I'd like to see NT pick up any XSI brains looking for work.

DigitalSorcery8
08-28-2012, 03:58 PM
And another big problem would be bugs in the software. They update the software and scenes that worked perfectly before are now broken. Can you imagine a highend studio putting up with that? Can you iimageine ANYONE putting up with that?

robertoortiz
08-28-2012, 04:13 PM
I could see AD releasing a cloud version of their apps for government work and such where the firm buying the software runs their own, private cloud.

The advantage of the cloud is that the apps only need to be kept up to date in one location rather than at each desktop, but the desktop is the system doing the work when running the app (like a mixed mode between the old dummy terminals and mainframes vs the current desktop models). It would also allow an administrator to control who could access which apps and giving someone access to an app would be far simpler than having to actually go install it on their system.
Ill give you a little secret that most people working doing graphics in DC will never admit it.


A big chuck of government employed graphics professional don't trust their network people.
Working doing graphics for the government is like steeping through the looking glass in Alice in wonderland.
Keep in mind that these people work with VERY strict guidelines of what is allowed or not in the network. These guidelines come from above their pay grades, VERY DRACONIAN and they tend to be quite universal.

Keep in mind that there is an IMMENSE amount of politics in terms of getting an application into a government network. And even then they view these applications with suspicion since they take up huge resources.
The reason Macs spread like wildfire in the design dept of government agencies is that the CIO's had little control over them. (that is until Apple pulled that MORONIC EPEAT stunt (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/07/apple-leaving-green-product-registry-epeat-was-a-mistake/). Now word on the street is that a lot of agencies have been instructed to drop all MAC products.)

By having a 3D app running from the network it means that the CIO has a direct say so in how you do your job. And trust me when I say that they could care less about 3D graphics. They only see that you are a resource hog.
If you value your long term prospects for your carrer you wont ask for a tool that is cloud based. If you do so, you are asking for sure trouble, and a lot of grey hair)

shrox
08-28-2012, 04:33 PM
Dear NewTek,

Please stay with discs and dongles. OK, I can download the program, but I don't want cloud or other authentication schemes. I am planning on moving to place that doesn't always have internet. By choice.

Shrox

lwanmtr
08-28-2012, 04:35 PM
Dear NewTek,

Please stay with discs and dongles. OK, I can download the program, but I don't want cloud or other authentication schemes. I am planning on moving to place that doesn't always have internet. By choice.


Agree 100% :thumbsup:

robertoortiz
08-28-2012, 04:38 PM
Agree 100% :thumbsup:

My workstation at home IS NOT connected to a network, by choice.

So I can relate.

PixelDust
08-28-2012, 04:52 PM
Another thing about the cloud is that not everybody has broadband. I just got high-speed DSL last year, and some of my neighbors less than a mile away don't have it available to them yet - their only options are dial-up or satellite. Just because of where you live, you could get excluded from using certain software. Not a smart way to expand your user base, IMO.

lwanmtr
08-28-2012, 04:58 PM
And if something happens on the other end you could lose all your work....If I lose my work cause I didnt save before hitting the merge points button, its my fault...but I dont want to rely on a system 100 miles away that could have any manner of failure from hardware to connection or even gremlins....no thank you.

ShadowMystic
08-28-2012, 05:09 PM
And if something happens on the other end you could lose all your work....If I lose my work cause I didnt save before hitting the merge points button, its my fault...but I dont want to rely on a system 100 miles away that could have any manner of failure from hardware to connection or even gremlins....no thank you.

My problem is usually edge bevel or rounder. Gremlins got me there. Less so now with better system at home and newer Lw version

lwanmtr
08-28-2012, 05:17 PM
Yeah, I cringe when I hit rounder and simultaneously remember there are edges not connected...and hope it doesnt crash..lol

cresshead
08-28-2012, 05:17 PM
My workstation at home IS NOT connected to a network, by choice.

So I can relate.

yup same here, my workstation ONLY connects like maybe twice a year for updates on apps such as zbrush or 3dsmax...then unplugged from the net as soon as it is done!

zarti
08-28-2012, 05:44 PM
fax !

.. the next logical step for workstation-makers 2years after pcComputing enters aparently should be :

to sell computers without HDD . .. =}-

{ voiceover of an tv add }

" why use an HDD ? why not to put two additinal graphic cards in the place you had HDD before ? or , why not lower power consumption and buy some food with the money you spared ? why not reduce the noise the HDDs make on 4AM ? what if your HDD gets damaged permanently ? what you are going to do with an old HDD when a faster HDD has been on market for 1 year ? Why you shold even buy an HDD ??

be smart ! buy a pc without HDD ! get away from a stone-HDDed days .. "



iFear

lwanmtr
08-28-2012, 05:49 PM
PC without HDD.....you mean a Macbook Air? lol

robertoortiz
08-28-2012, 06:50 PM
This might be of interest:

Autodesk Continues Strategic Investment in Product Lifecycle Management with Acquisition of Inforbix



"SAN FRANCISCO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 28, 2012-- Autodesk, Inc., (NASDAQ: ADSK) a world leader in 3D design, engineering and entertainment software, continued its strategic investment in product lifecycle management (PLM) and has announced it has acquired certain assets of Inforbix, LLC. Inforbix is a software company focused on cloud-based SaaS solutions aimed at increasing the value of product data, productivity, and improved decision making for manufacturing-based companies. Terms of the transaction were not disclosed. As a part of this acquisition, Autodesk also announced that it appointed Oleg Shilovitsky as Senior Director of PLM and Data Management. Shilovitsky is a co-founder of Inforbix, LLC.

“Oleg Shilovitsky is an established PLM thought leader who brings deep industry experience and a history of innovation to his new role at Autodesk,”? said Buzz Kross, senior vice president, Design, Lifecycle and Simulation at Autodesk. “Since the launch of Autodesk PLM 360 last year, we have introduced thousands of new users to the power of cloud-based PLM. We are thrilled to welcome Oleg and under his leadership look forward to continued innovation and driving greater adoption of Autodesk PLM 360.”?


Autodesk plans to incorporate Inforbix technology for indexing, search, personalization and data visualization into Autodesk PLM360, which will help to accelerate the vision for the Autodesk 360 cloud services.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/news/article.asp?docKey=600-201208280805BIZWIRE_USPRX____BW5355-1&params=timestamp%7C%7C08/28/2012%208:05%20AM%20ET%7C%7Cheadline%7C%7CAutodesk% 20Continues%20Strategic%20Investment%20in%20Produc t%20Lifecycle%20Management%20with%20Acquisition%20 of%20Inforbix%7C%7CdocSource%7C%7CBusiness%20Wire% 7C%7Cprovider%7C%7CACQUIREMEDIA%7C%7Cbridgesymbol% 7C%7CUS;ADSK&ticker=ADSK

DigitalSorcery8
08-28-2012, 07:00 PM
PC without HDD.....you mean a Macbook Air? lol

The first computer I bought - a Texas Instruments TI-99 - had no harddrive. Everything ran off of RAM. I don't think there were any floppy ports either. I know I used a cassette tape recorder with a special connector to save any programs. And the computer after that - an Amstrad - had floppy drives but no harddrive. I believe I still have these computers in my attic. And... they probably still work. :)

shrox
08-28-2012, 07:25 PM
It's dead Jim...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7SVSAcj5xz4/TRNPDsBytDI/AAAAAAAAC0s/qWKgnzxWFC0/s320/Devil1.jpg

Verlon
08-28-2012, 07:38 PM
Well the Apple App store isn't cloud based applications. It is simply a unified online store for sales and software updates. My Mac works just fine with no internet.

Cloud based applications are a last ditch move for me. If I *need* something and that is the only wa to do it, then sure. But I would not want to work in 3D like that. The last thing I would want is to lose work because somone else on another node hit rounder with unconnected edges, or some other bug.

What about DOS attacks against you or your server? "Sorry, no rendering today, Autodesk got hit by the BigFoolz virus." I could see something like Adobe, where you have the option of buying the suite or paying a monthly sub scription, but online only? Ugg. I only tolerate that with games.

m.d.
08-28-2012, 08:02 PM
some of adobe's apps....muse for example is only a monthly/yearly rental...

it has already started...ive been kinda afraid of this for a while....
the way to increase profits will be through subscription....

a little different from complete cloud computing...but still going with the trend of never physically owning your software

jeric_synergy
08-28-2012, 09:08 PM
It's dead Jim...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7SVSAcj5xz4/TRNPDsBytDI/AAAAAAAAC0s/qWKgnzxWFC0/s320/Devil1.jpg
That's not what he said there.

If memory serves, he says something like "I believe I can cure a rainy day!"

jeric_synergy
08-28-2012, 09:09 PM
Well the Apple App store isn't cloud based applications. It is simply a unified online store for sales and software updates.
Yeah, I don't really get why people were saying that.

Titus
08-28-2012, 09:29 PM
Well the Apple App store isn't cloud based applications. It is simply a unified online store for sales and software updates. My Mac works just fine with no internet.


The app store may not be the cloud, but it locks you into a walled garden. It's a different kind of poison.

roboman
08-28-2012, 09:59 PM
Cloud based software is a really bad idea.
I don't need a version change in the middle of a project or worse yet in the middle of a render.
I don't hook my render computers to the internet.
I paid for ver 11 and get to use it the rest of my life, I don't need 'rented' software that goes away
I don't have to worry about the software on my hd no longer working because the company decided to support a different software or go out of business.
I don't with to give an outside company the ability to shut down my business.
I don't wish to trust an outside company to keep all my data secure over the net.

Basically I see almost no gain (other then a fairly small amount of money and time) in having the software, I might be counting on to make a living, being hosted and maintained at some location I have no control over and only have internet access to if I keep paying. I see a huge downside and a total loss of control over what my business would be based on. It's a great deal for AD. They get to demand you pay what ever they want or they shut your business down and you either have no access to your data or if it's stored local it's now worthless with out software to run it through. I would change software, or change the business I was in, before I ran my business on cloud software. Guess it's a good thing I like Lightwave better then Max or Maya :)

Rayek
08-28-2012, 11:48 PM
Cloud computing has its pros and cons, like every other solution. I enjoy using Google Docs, and the simplicity in sharing my work with others.

However, working in the cloud (just another new term for something that already has existed since the beginning of networks: recall the terminal-server setups in the eighties?) demands a *fast* network with sufficient bandwidth.

Basically, the cpu is no longer the bottleneck, but your bandwidth speed is - in my experience Google Docs is absolutely horrible to work in whenever the network is capped. And this naturally happens at the colleges I teach, and is also the case in many larger companies with a great number of employees.

With a capped bandwidth even Google Docs feels as if I am back in time working on a i286 and MS Office. No wait, that actually felt much faster ;-)

I suppose for most companies like Autodesk and Adobe "the cloud" merely means "users must be online at all times so we can track, protect, and kill the use of our app, and we will provide some online server space to save their work". Going one step further, and we will not be able to save local versions of the actual source files, and we will be completely dependent on those online 'creative cloud' type server spaces. I foresee the day a psd will only be available online, and only the final published files might be exported locally.

In the worst case scenario we will no longer own our own source files - just like the software.

Oh, and p.s. (sorry for the hijack here, but I cannot sit by idly when Muse is mentioned): Adobe Muse is the beginning of a new black plague on the net for web developers and designers. Flash all over again. Adobe just does *NOT* get it. And they never shall.

http://sustainablevirtualdesign.wordpress.com/2012/05/14/adobe-muse-damages-the-earth/

Danner
08-29-2012, 03:36 AM
I really don't see how Adobe and Autodesk can keep their ridiculously high pricing structure much longer, there are some amazing free tools now and they keep getting better and better. If they go cloud only, my guess is that some "pirate" clouds will appear. It's going to get interesting.

robertoortiz
08-29-2012, 08:30 AM
In the worst case scenario we will no longer own our own source files - just like the software.

Oh, and p.s. (sorry for the hijack here, but I cannot sit by idly when Muse is
There are legal issues with not having source files on your machine.
If yo uare doing work for a 3rd party, who is LIABLE if the files are either lost of stolen?

Imagine that COMPANY X is doing a big marketing push, and they share source assets files with you to render some stills. And trhe cloud where the files were hosted is hacked, and next thing you know stills from that secret project yo uwere working on go public.

Who is liable?

Red_Oddity
08-29-2012, 09:02 AM
The advantage of the cloud is that the apps only need to be kept up to date in one location rather than at each desktop.
Which is a bullsh!t reason/feature, as we run desktop versions of everything, and almost all software (Maya, LW, Fusion, VRay, MR, Deadline, etc) allows for having 'master' configs on a server (including plugins and scripts), which is how we've kept everything up to date and synced for the past 7 years.

Also, what happens when AD suddenly decides to update the Maya core, breaking all your custom scripts plugins etc (if that even is possible with cloud based systems) because API calls change, in the middle of production this is a sure recipe for disaster (loosing hours fixing and updating, which might even prevent you from making deadlines.)

I shudder at the thought of these bullcrap 'cloud' prediction made by boneheaded CEO that have lost all touch with both their user base and reality in general to ever become reality in our field of work.

Verlon
08-29-2012, 09:08 AM
The app store may not be the cloud, but it locks you into a walled garden. It's a different kind of poison.
:cursin:

Seriously, that again? Lightwave isn't in the app store, and I use it just fine. I really do not get why people can't get that the "walled garden" isn't a prison cell. I have choices, including the choice to run Windows. I just happen to like OSX. I would use Ubuntu if Lightwaveranon it, or,aybe Amiga OS (the new one) for nostalgia. If Apple is a walled garden, Windows is a vast landfill without so much as a night watchman.

Meanwhile, back on topic, I am sure AD has an army of lawyers to protect them from any liability. If they lost your files, they would probably sue you for illegally allowing distribution of their IP.

Also,for as big as AD is, it is hard to believe they only took in. $49 million in all Od 3d animation.

Titus
08-29-2012, 09:46 AM
Which is a bullsh!t reason/feature, as we run desktop versions of everything, and almost all software (Maya, LW, Fusion, VRay, MR, Deadline, etc) allows for having 'master' configs on a server (including plugins and scripts), which is how we've kept everything up to date and synced for the past 7 years.

Also, what happens when AD suddenly decides to update the Maya core, breaking all your custom scripts plugins etc (if that even is possible with cloud based systems) because API calls change, in the middle of production this is a sure recipe for disaster (loosing hours fixing and updating, which might even prevent you from making deadlines.)


Or what happens if the company shutdown their servers? I can still using Shake right now, sure, I won't get any updates but I can still using it.

Titus
08-29-2012, 10:00 AM
:cursin:

Seriously, that again? Lightwave isn't in the app store, and I use it just fine. I really do not get why people can't get that the "walled garden" isn't a prison cell.

Who said you can't use other tools?


I have choices, including the choice to run Windows. I just happen to like OSX. I would use Ubuntu if Lightwaveranon it, or,aybe Amiga OS (the new one) for nostalgia.


Wow! Don't take it personal, I don't care what choices you have taken. I only was pointing that these new "options" we have are walling our freedom as users, customers and even developers.



If Apple is a walled garden, Windows is a vast landfill without so much as a night watchman.


Maybe you're right, what's your point?

shrox
08-29-2012, 11:25 AM
That's not what he said there.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7SVSAcj5xz4/TRNPDsBytDI/AAAAAAAAC0s/qWKgnzxWFC0/s320/Devil1.jpg

If memory serves, he says something like "I believe I can cure a rainy day!"

Forgive the man, he was giddy on a silicon concrete mixture.

DigitalSorcery8
08-29-2012, 03:49 PM
There are legal issues with not having source files on your machine.
If yo uare doing work for a 3rd party, who is LIABLE if the files are either lost of stolen?

Imagine that COMPANY X is doing a big marketing push, and they share source assets files with you to render some stills. And trhe cloud where the files were hosted is hacked, and next thing you know stills from that secret project yo uwere working on go public.

Who is liable?

YOU will be.

Why?

Because Autodesk will make sure you sign over all potential liability will be yours. They will place it most likely in the EULA and if you want to use the software, they will end up with ZERO liability.

Intuition
08-29-2012, 05:26 PM
Only in the USA could you have a 4% increase from the year before and everyone panics and the stock loses 22% of its value.

Oh dear. Its $562 million instead of $602 million.... a roughly 6% difference in expectation....quickly... sell it all... bleeaaarg!

I always defend capitalism but... sadly.... educated consumers and more importantly.... educated investors are the rarest commodity.

:cursin:

Cryonic
08-29-2012, 06:33 PM
Which is a bullsh!t reason/feature, as we run desktop versions of everything, and almost all software (Maya, LW, Fusion, VRay, MR, Deadline, etc) allows for having 'master' configs on a server (including plugins and scripts), which is how we've kept everything up to date and synced for the past 7 years.

Also, what happens when AD suddenly decides to update the Maya core, breaking all your custom scripts plugins etc (if that even is possible with cloud based systems) because API calls change, in the middle of production this is a sure recipe for disaster (loosing hours fixing and updating, which might even prevent you from making deadlines.)

I shudder at the thought of these bullcrap 'cloud' prediction made by boneheaded CEO that have lost all touch with both their user base and reality in general to ever become reality in our field of work.

OK, I was referring to clouds in general... As in, you work at a company and they run their own cloud inside their own network. They install Maya/Max/Lightwave/etc... in one place and just grant users access to the apps by login. You are free to login anywhere to work on stuff and the apps follow you around (as well as scripts and plugins and configs). The app runs on your desktop (whichever one you happen to be at), but lives in the cloud for maintenance.
So, none of the software would be updated in the middle of a production run (unless IT isn't talking to any of the users to schedule things properly).

Celshader
08-29-2012, 06:58 PM
Only in the USA could you have a 4% increase from the year before and everyone panics and the stock loses 22% of its value.

Oh dear. Its $562 million instead of $602 million.... a roughly 6% difference in expectation....quickly... sell it all... bleeaaarg!

I always defend capitalism but... sadly.... educated consumers and more importantly.... educated investors are the rarest commodity.

:cursin:

If it cheers you up, there's a buyer and a seller for each stock transaction.

Look at it this way: a lot of investors thought Autodesk was well worth buying at 22%-off. :thumbsup:

Me, I index (http://lore.greeblegraphics.com/2012/01/08/retirement-saving-for-vfx-artists/).

Red_Oddity
08-30-2012, 06:35 AM
OK, I was referring to clouds in general... As in, you work at a company and they run their own cloud inside their own network. They install Maya/Max/Lightwave/etc... in one place and just grant users access to the apps by login. You are free to login anywhere to work on stuff and the apps follow you around (as well as scripts and plugins and configs). The app runs on your desktop (whichever one you happen to be at), but lives in the cloud for maintenance.
So, none of the software would be updated in the middle of a production run (unless IT isn't talking to any of the users to schedule things properly).

That has been around for quite some years, it's called Desktop Virtualization (with or without hardware virtualization)

The 'Cloud' has become such a marketing buzz word for stuff that has been around for ages, it's becoming ridiculous (same with 'HD', i swear, my parents have a washing machine with something like 'superHD' printed on it in big bold letters.)

jeric_synergy
08-30-2012, 08:21 AM
It's like the ancient Peanuts strip, and how they put "Hi-Fi" on EVERYTHING in the Fifties.

Verlon
08-30-2012, 08:58 AM
Who said you can't use other tools?



Wow! Don't take it personal, I don't care what choices you have taken. I only was pointing that these new "options" we have are walling our freedom as users, customers and even developers.



Maybe you're right, what's your point?

Because you called it poison...when you say you do not like my choice, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I am ok with people not liking what I like. When you call it poison, you are implying I am somehow unknowingly hurting myself. This is an insult to my intelligence, sanity, or both, and that is personal, so I take a moment to defend my choice/intelligence/sanity. Or maybe I am just spending too much time on tomshardware.com ;)

No worries.

Titus
08-30-2012, 10:07 AM
That has been around for quite some years, it's called Desktop Virtualization (with or without hardware virtualization)

The 'Cloud' has become such a marketing buzz word for stuff that has been around for ages, it's becoming ridiculous (same with 'HD', i swear, my parents have a washing machine with something like 'superHD' printed on it in big bold letters.)

You forgot the other buzzword: Big Data (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_data).

BTW, Pixar just sent me an offer to test their cloud rendering service, 50 hours for free. Everyone is jumping in.

jeric_synergy
08-30-2012, 01:24 PM
BTW, Pixar just sent me an offer to test their cloud rendering service, 50 hours for free. Everyone is jumping in.
A rendering service makes sense: a couple thousand cpus working on your scene? Who wouldn't want that?

But for realtime stuff on your machine? No point.

BTW, yonks ago I did the math for a rendering service: at that time the bandwidth just wasn't there. Now, obviously it is.

zarti
08-30-2012, 03:02 PM
(same with 'HD', i swear, my parents have a washing machine with something like 'superHD' printed on it in big bold letters.)

ha-Haa !

here is another one ; a laundry detergent in ****-3D ( ! )

lwanmtr
08-30-2012, 03:20 PM
HD is everywhere again....3D is being thrown around on items that there's no point....wonder what the next great one will be? lol

BigHache
08-30-2012, 06:26 PM
HD is everywhere again....3D is being thrown around on items that there's no point....wonder what the next great one will be? lol

We can make it up now and get an early start. How about XD? Bigger than HD and now in 4D! Shoot, let's just start with the second version and call it XD2.

BeeVee
08-31-2012, 04:45 AM
UHD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_High_Definition_Television).

B

robertoortiz
09-02-2012, 08:19 PM
Stephen Blair of xsisupport has been laid-off.
http://xsisupport.com/2012/08/31/friday-flashback-85/

There seems to be a mass exodus happening in Autodesk.

ianr
09-03-2012, 08:56 AM
Heh NewTek,
Some-one should collect a couple of coder staff!!!
(n.B. FaceRobot & Ice) Knowwaddamean!

50one
09-03-2012, 09:30 AM
Heh NewTek,
Some-one should collect a couple of coder staff!!!
(n.B. FaceRobot & Ice) Knowwaddamean!

Don't think that Autodesk let them go easily:) but would be great to have some of the team here:)

jeric_synergy
09-03-2012, 09:32 AM
Don't think that Autodesk let them go easily:) but would be great to have some of the team here:)
y'know, even if NewTek couldn't straight out hire them, a nice phone call pointing out some marketing gaps in LightWave's lineup wouldn't go amiss.

robertoortiz
09-03-2012, 09:56 AM
Rumor: Autodesk is no longer going to develop 3dsmax and Motion Builder

Take with a grain of salt:
"Recently at Siggraph 2012 LA, Autodesk invited a small group of industry leads from different studios-the requirement being each studio had to have over a 1,000 employees- to a behind doors meeting. They were told to sign NDA's and were let in. I wasn't one of them but I heard from a friend who went.

From what I heard Autodesk is killing Motion Builder and instead going to build it into Maya. They also are no longer going to develop 3dsmax, at least on the animation side. I was told they were going to focus on a single solution for animation which will be Maya based. My friend wasn't sure if this meant for modeling as well since they only talked about animation, so maybe 3dsmax is dropping dev for animation and focusing on modeling, while Maya for animation. They didn't say anything about XSI.

This is all I know, has anyone else heard any other news about this is have they not announced it yet? I was wondering if this had anything to do with the recent layoffs at Autodesk as well.
"
http://www.reddit.com/r/vfx/comments/z8o09/autodesk_is_no_longer_going_to_develop_3dsmax_and/

EDITED

-R

shrox
09-03-2012, 10:38 AM
Rumor: Autodesk is no longer going to develop 3dsmax and Motion Builder

Take with a grain of salt:
"Recently at Siggraph 2012 LA, Autodesk invited a small group of industry leads from different studios-the requirement being each studio had to have over a 1,000 employees- to a behind doors meeting. They were told to sign NDA's and were let in. I wasn't one of them but I heard from a friend who went.

From what I heard Autodesk is killing Motion Builder and instead going to build it into Maya. They also are no longer going to develop 3dsmax, at least on the animation side. I was told they were going to focus on a single solution for animation which will be Maya based. My friend wasn't sure if this meant for modeling as well since they only talked about animation, so maybe 3dsmax is dropping dev for animation and focusing on modeling, while Maya for animation. They didn't say anything about XSI.

This is all I know, has anyone else heard any other news about this is have they not announced it yet? I was wondering if this had anything to do with the recent layoffs at Autodesk as well.
"
http://www.reddit.com/r/vfx/comments/z8o09/autodesk_is_no_longer_going_to_develop_3dsmax_and/

EDITED

-R


Wow, that's is going to greatly affect sites like IMVU and other user content based virtual life sites. I hope they switch to Lightwave.

renderwerx
09-03-2012, 10:47 AM
I still got an autograph from Carl Bass
might be putting it up for auction and f****g rich

AD was doing bad business over the past years, I had some insight.
They were hiring cheaper labor, support teams around the globe are a joke.
Seems it finally caught up on them.

I don't care if they go CLOUD. Hopefully sooner than never. Because nobody in the 3D industry is ever going to want it or use it.
If they do, it's again Java Applets and animated GIFs.
Congratulations, Adobe might re-invent Flash against HTML5.
The sooner AD is going up into the cloud, the sooner they die.

Though I don't like the dongle, but better a dongle than slow internet to wait 20 minutes to start downloading before you can fight with rotating a cube in Internet Explorer. More, if the connection drops, you loose ALL of your work or WHAT????

I embrace LightWave.

have a good day

erikals
09-03-2012, 10:54 AM
not sure, but it's been rumored for some time that they will stop developing either Max, Maya or SI. then move some of the technologies into application X.

they of course never cared for supporting all the apps, it was all about more power, for then to shut down divisions. (like they just did)

i'll give it 2-3 years, before application X is gone.

shrox
09-03-2012, 10:57 AM
not sure, but it's been rumored for some time that they will stop developing either Max, Maya or SI. then move some of the technologies into application X.

they of course never cared for supporting all the apps, it was all about more power, for then to shut down divisions. (like they just did)

i'll give it 2-3 years, before application X is gone.

Application SUX?

erikals
09-03-2012, 10:57 AM
renderwerx, note, LW11.03 doesn't need a dongle...

renderwerx
09-03-2012, 10:59 AM
renderwerx, note, LW11.03 doesn't need a dongle...

I'm an oldie, you should know :)
I got married with LW7.5
divorce is out of the question
sorry
I know where my loyalties are :)

zarti
09-03-2012, 11:16 AM
.. ohh .. MAXxx ! .. wait . where are you going ?

jeric_synergy
09-03-2012, 01:10 PM
they of course never cared for supporting all the apps, it was all about more power, for then to shut down divisions. (like they just did)
That must be something they teach in business school. (expletive!)

That software that started on the Amiga, then got ported to PC, that was a 2D animation program that had GREAT promise? I talked to the product manager for that product after AD axed it, and asked "WTH happened there?" He said their new bean-counter CEO asked "What's our core business?" --straight out of Dilbert-- heard "3D", and cut all 2D work.

Morons. (And you just KNOW he got a golden parachute later. They don't like to punish their own.)

zarti
09-03-2012, 02:49 PM
so if MB goes inside MAYA , will there be MB as a separate product ?

apparently , a lot of movement there .

let see how the flocking users is going to behave ..

{ simulation allready started }

cresshead
09-03-2012, 04:24 PM
imagine a world where you can no longer buy maya, 3dsmax or softimage?
ILM would be in trouble for one....you'd have to use OLD maya and then develop it themselves going forward.

you can't buy/sell second hand seats of maya, 3dsmax or softimage so no second hand market for new studios to invest in.

just leaves you with houdini, ligtwave, cinema4d and modo + blender of course!

houdini will wrap up the hi end work.

Celshader
09-03-2012, 04:58 PM
just leaves you with houdini, ligtwave, cinema4d and modo + blender of course

I just realized only one of those packages offers a pipeline-friendly, text-based file format. :oye:


houdini will wrap up the hi end work.

Pixar switched their VFX pipeline to Houdini, so at least one big studio relies heavily on it.

alexos
09-03-2012, 05:00 PM
Rumor: Autodesk is no longer going to develop 3dsmax...

Err... This is so utterly ridiculous it'll probably turn out to be true, but - really? I mean, really?! Stop developing (OK, on the animation side, but that'd still pretty much kill it) your best-selling 3D app which, incidentally, also happens to out-sell every other 3D app by orders of magnitude? What? Unless developing Max has become economically unsustainable and/or they've painted themselves into a corner with the core changes - and even then..! Besides, they already tried the "Max Lite" thing some years ago (I'd even bought the ghastly thing!) and it ended in tears. Come on, it can't be.

OTOH, Autodesk has been acting weird for a while now. They keep splitting Autocad into more and more different, "specialized" packages, former Wunderkind Revit has been getting little love, the GIS program is practically dead... I guess they could still surprise me. Hey, perhaps they want to turn Maya and Max into AD Layout and Modeler. XSI would be one hell of a Hub, too!

ADP.

shrox
09-03-2012, 07:25 PM
I'm an oldie, you should know :)
I got married with LW7.5
divorce is out of the question
sorry
I know where my loyalties are :)

My dongle makes me feel safe.

lwanmtr
09-03-2012, 08:28 PM
My dongle makes me feel safe.

Maybe someone should invent the dongle cozy

shrox
09-03-2012, 08:31 PM
Maybe someone should invent the dongle cozy

Sweet!

octopus2000
09-04-2012, 05:02 AM
newtek should purchase softimage and add liquids to lightwave

robertoortiz
09-04-2012, 08:04 AM
3dsMax Rumours – Response
Quote:
"Hi All

I wanted to share a statement from Autodesk’s Chris Vienneau, the Director of Product Management for the Media & Entertainment products. This relates the news which some of you may have found distracting around the recent false rumours of 3ds Max being discontinued. Many of you have contacted me over these myths and as such Chris has kindly allowed me to publicly re-share this with you all. This will certainly help set your mind at ease about their false nature.

Chris originally shared this on a web-forum/message board. For your reference, ‘EOL’ refers to ‘End Of Life’ and ‘PM’s’ relates to ‘Product Managers’. These, PM’s, are the people responsible for driving the powerful products we all care so much about."
http://jamiesjewels.typepad.com/jamies_jewels/

DigitalSorcery8
09-04-2012, 01:01 PM
LIES! It's from Autodesk. ;)

Actually.... who really knows? I know you were joking, but when you're talking about a corp. like ADSK, Chris Vienneau may not really KNOW. ADSK can easily change their collective mind and do something that Mr. Vienneau knew nothing about. I also think that many times the Board of Directors may have made or will make a decision which comes down suddenly and unexpectedly - like cutting people across the board. The Board may tell him this, but they may have other plans.

Just sayin'.... :2guns:

cresshead
09-04-2012, 02:09 PM
in his response he left out any mention of the fate due to fall upon motionbuilder....

however it's good like VERY good news to have Frank Deliese back in charge of 3dsmax product development.

zarti
09-04-2012, 02:31 PM
To be continued ..

Verlon
09-04-2012, 09:12 PM
That was a very interesting read:

"After rumors of our plans got out, our stock took such a beating that we certainly couldn't announce them. Instead, we would like to announce that we aren't annoucing anything. We laid off a bunch of people, but we also hired no less that TWO exciting names you might recognize. Despite allegations by Mitt Romney and judges as far back as the 19th century that 'corporations are people, too,' we would like to be clear that our corporation is not a person and does not do things that people do (like kill off product lines unexpectedly or lay off 500 of our work force). Our corporation is a happy family that loves each other and you, and it really hurts our feelings when people accuse us of doing stuff."

Or something like that.

I mean really, what did you expect would happen after a secret meeting and a big layoff? You have 3 product lines that step all over each other's toes in a relatively small market. Of course people think you are looking at merging them.

erikals
09-05-2012, 01:44 AM
 
it's simple,

it's not economically feasible to run the 3 apps.
one or two will have to go, mark my words.

some tech will be ported, but not all. some stuff will be lost.
i'm just curious, which one it will be.

when done, the AD monopoly will stand stronger, and can then do what is needed >
do the exactly same thing over again, and keep on ruling the 3D galaxy.

AD has been known to "make an offer we could not refuse", so this is likely to happen for some time...

the good thing though is that open source helps smaller companies, and can give a new boost to the competition, unlike before. Bullet / Blender / Pixar SubDs, much more.

 

cresshead
09-05-2012, 09:45 AM


some tech will be ported, but not all. some stuff will be lost.
i'm just curious, which one it will be.



i think

motion builder will get rolled into maya
softimage tech is going into maya so softimage's future is not bright...though it may last a few more releases
3dsmax user base is huge...i don't see that app disappearing any time soon.

i'd expect mudbox to get rolled into maya and 3dsmax

cresshead
09-05-2012, 03:33 PM
oh btw just like how Rob has turned around the fortunes of lightwave...autodesk has replaced the product mamanger for 3dsmax and brought back Frank Deliese who used to be product manager back in 3dsmax's early years when development was moving at a good pace which is really great news to hear.

geo_n
09-08-2012, 12:17 AM
i think

motion builder will get rolled into maya
softimage tech is going into maya so softimage's future is not bright...though it may last a few more releases
3dsmax user base is huge...i don't see that app disappearing any time soon.

i'd expect mudbox to get rolled into maya and 3dsmax

I doubt it. Atleast not in the next 5 years. They're developing so much of the individual software and can make more money with a suite. Look at 2013 features they're mind blowing.

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?130396-Rumors-swirling-about-the-competition&p=1270269#post1270269
Virtual production with real time mocap and dx11 viewport, crowd sim for softimage seamless integration with maya. I haven't checked the other 2013 videos yet but these looks impressive.

Netvudu
09-10-2012, 09:17 AM
It doesn´t matter that you like Softimage 2013 features geo_n. Those are the last product of a dev team, THAT HAS BEEN MOVED to be part of the Maya dev team. This means no more funky stuff like that. Softimage is going byebye in two more versions at most I predict, maybe just one.

geo_n
09-10-2012, 09:53 AM
When does it matter that any one person likes a particular software?
Point was development is still going strong, stronger than others. Unless we actually work at AD making the decisions, who's to know? I couldn't have guessed core would be killed but it was.
I gave it 5 years till they kill softimage but its a wild guess since a lot of game companies have adapted softimage.
3dmax, too many companies are using it. Not just big AAA companies but small companies.

Dexter2999
09-10-2012, 09:55 AM
Not that I particularly care one way or the other what AD does, I don't use any of their products, but I don't see the logic in what Cress said above from a business standpoint.

Folding Motion Builder and Mudbox into existing 3d packages would be wonderful for users but it gives added utility to the user and cuts profit to the company. Meanwhile it does nothing to address the redundancy in their product line which is also draining resources. What this seems to propose is a course of action that would cut revenue without cutting expenses, and that doesn't hold up from a business point of view.

Not saying it might not happen. They might be able to eliminate more marketing and support jobs and make their money back that way. But on the face of it, the math doesn't work.

Nope, Softimage will have to get gutted and killed off to clean up their product line and cut expenses properly.

Dexter2999
09-10-2012, 10:00 AM
I couldn't have guessed core would be killed but it was.

Oh, I saw that one coming six months out. They were too far over schedule with no realistic release candidate or sensible marketing strategy. Also, what they had alienated a large portion of the existing user base. When it happened, I didn't say "Wow!, surprise." I said, "Yep, there it is."

Airwaves
09-10-2012, 10:05 AM
Financial woes? The world of large corporates makes no sense to me. When you look at their figures, they still made $92million QUARTERLY pre-tax profit on revenue of $568million, with revenue growth of 4% (compared to US growth of what, 2%?). Oh and they have $1bn cash in the bank. So in response to these dire financial figures they make 7% of their staff redundant. Way to go.

Very interesting! I am an accountant by trade and to go along with what you said, large companies that have been in business a while tend to generate huge overhead costs which cause weak growth and instead of downsizing some of the overhead and higher up salaries they hit the small people. I have nothing against autodesk but I wish they would listen to accountants/cost accountants who know where to cut costs to keep people employed.

It would be interesting to see their financial statements but I am sure that would make everyone else bored!

geo_n
09-10-2012, 10:09 AM
Oh, I saw that one coming six months out. They were too far over schedule with no realistic release candidate or sensible marketing strategy. Also, what they had alienated a large portion of the existing user base. When it happened, I didn't say "Wow!, surprise." I said, "Yep, there it is."

I guess most just didn't expect it looking at the reaction of so many people. They're over at lux. :D
And this was software that was not even alpha compared to softimage. The way it was done was also abrupt and left many people blindsided. Seriously unless we are making the decisions who really knows?
Softimage is extremely ahead of other software at a price point that is very good. The jobs are also getting more and more diverse from low end to highend companies than what's available for the very rare houdini jobs which is the only software that competes on a tech level.

Dexter2999
09-10-2012, 10:21 AM
Softimage is extremely ahead of other software at a price point that is very good.

And I am sure many users agree with you on this. But, from a business standpoint the "best" doesn't always win. If the product doesn't have the established userbase (translated to marketshare/revenue generation) it will lose to an inferior product that the public has elected to use.

geo_n
09-10-2012, 10:59 AM
True. Like the betamax and vhs? Hopefully people are smarter consumers now than before.
Talking about marketshare lw has plummetted but its still alive. All the doomsday talk hasn't happened yet and its going in the right direction so far. All the promise of blender going mainstream hasn't happened yet. It will be interesting to see if softimage, mobu, etc will all be dead in two years. Hard to predict the future of software.

Netvudu
09-11-2012, 09:26 AM
The jobs are also getting more and more diverse from low end to highend companies than what's available for the very rare houdini jobs which is the only software that competes on a tech level.

Apparently you decide how the market is as opposed to looking at the real market. How curious! There are less and less Softimage positions out there, while Houdini job opportunities have exploded in the feature film sector in the last two years. Just take a look at any big production house FX department and see how many don´t ask for Houdini users. Tough to find...maybe MPC and Weta, whicha re famous pro-Maya facilities (and even then Weta does use Houdini albeit quite rarely)

geo_n
09-11-2012, 09:01 PM
Apparently you decide how the market is as opposed to looking at the real market. How curious! There are less and less Softimage positions out there, while Houdini job opportunities have exploded in the feature film sector in the last two years. Just take a look at any big production house FX department and see how many don´t ask for Houdini users. Tough to find...maybe MPC and Weta, whicha re famous pro-Maya facilities (and even then Weta does use Houdini albeit quite rarely)

I base mine on job posts from paid ads over here and talking to subcons and other studios where cg is as big as US and Canada, where cg is bigger than the auto industry. The typical ads lists maya, max, softimage. No modo, no lw, no c4d, no houdini.
And the studios, subcon or primary, that do cg, and the companies that gives out projects like Dentsu all prefer AD.
You can promote houdini since you're a houdini user but its far from a good alternative to AD software if you want to be relevant and have a good options career wise.