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Akoenders
08-18-2012, 12:20 PM
How can i make realistic fluids in lightwave 3d without realflow or blender?

SonicMotion
08-18-2012, 12:23 PM
you can get away with a few things using hypervoxels, but if you want to make splashes, you might be out of luck.

what kind of fluids are you trying to do? - i mean are you trying to do like an ocean, stream, splash of water in a cup?

Akoenders
08-18-2012, 12:46 PM
Mixing fluids, or water in a cup. Its possible with realflow of course.
Its a shame that newtek not implement it in lightwave 3d.

Blender have a fluid engine (not so good as realflow).

SonicMotion
08-18-2012, 12:48 PM
not as good but you can at least get decent results if you put up with the interface. plus there is a plugin to import the sim data straight into lightwave if you need to go that route:

http://www.lwplugindb.com/Plugin.aspx?id=cf608b03

Dexter2999
08-18-2012, 12:53 PM
Blender (FREE) have a fluid engine (not so good as realflow ($6360).

Wonder why?

erikals
08-18-2012, 04:53 PM
 
RealFlow is now $6300  ? :/

thank goodness for $250 Learning Edition and $250-one-week RealFlow OnDemand

(phew!)

 

Dexter2999
08-18-2012, 05:39 PM
http://www.realflow.com/images/tabla_pricing_starter_kit.jpg

Well, this is the "starter kit".
This is the first thing I saw when I clicked on Buy-Price List.
If you click on Buy Direct, you find this.
"RealFlow 2012 - Standard (new) 3995$"

Nodes are listed as $500 each.
RenderKits (another tab) are listed as $200 each.
But RF2012 comes with one free kit included so....the math of the kit compares to:
RF seat $3995
plus nodes $1000
plus kits $800 (5 kits -1 included kit)
totaling $5750

So for $610 more you get a year of support and Maint.

Point being, top notch fluids cost a bundle. All I can afford is the LE version.

Titus
08-18-2012, 06:27 PM
How can i make realistic fluids in lightwave 3d without realflow or blender?

What do you need?

Blender is more basic in terms of what you can create: start the liquid put some obstacles and let it flow. With RF you can create fluids and make a path, let it stop, then transform into a specific shape, etc. It can take you literally days to get what you want, but the final sim can be nearly spectacular.

Akoenders
08-21-2012, 11:53 AM
I think that lightwave is a bit "old" in liquid. Not from this time.
I know there is realflow, but in maya or max there is a good fluid simulation out of the box.

I hope they implent it in version 11.5

Dodgy
08-21-2012, 07:39 PM
<sigh> Liquids in LW..... yummy..... <sigh>

jwiede
08-21-2012, 09:19 PM
LW needs many things, generally-improved particle capabilities among them. I just think there are a bunch of things LW needs more "emergently" than fluids right now, and until those are addressed, effort towards fluids would be misplaced in priority. I'd love to see fluids in LW, but I think features like ubiquitous, reliable undo, etc. need to come first.

prometheus
08-22-2012, 12:47 AM
I would of course also really see a solution in lightwave rather than using blender, or a very expensive real flow, but the sad part is that to get top notch fluids it will take some serious resources, which would mean hiring a couple of guys working solely on this I suspect.

The closest thing I could see coming, that would be if Jascha can overcome obstacles for this and finally deliver some Liquid fluids within that turbulenceFD, not sure whatīs going on there..maybe itīs to difficult now or maybe he has a lot to fix with the smoke and fire fluids
still.

I donīt think Anyone else is working on Liquid fluids for now and for Lighwave, unless their working in the shadows with it at this time.

Maya, houdini, soft image perhaps is the big ones with included liquids as I know of, 3d max, cinema3d,modo and lightwave doesnīt have any, and those three with native fluids are the top notch applications for Advanced fx with particles leaving others behind in the wake.

I suspect it wonīt be long until 3dmax is bundling or implementing Naiad too.

As people has mentioned...there might be more important things to adress than fluids, but then again that very question will always arise, and in such case we will never get Liquid fluids adressed, So I would
call for newtek to do some more research right now and not wait for someone else to make it happen.

I did that call for them many years ago when I saw Flowline, and here we are several years later and nothing has advanced in that area, so even if thereīs more important things to adress, you can not neglect the power of such innovative fx tool as fluids, if you want to compete and give artist a broader toolbox, out of the box.


Michael

Dodgy
08-22-2012, 01:14 AM
LW needs many things, generally-improved particle capabilities among them. I just think there are a bunch of things LW needs more "emergently" than fluids right now, and until those are addressed, effort towards fluids would be misplaced in priority. I'd love to see fluids in LW, but I think features like ubiquitous, reliable undo, etc. need to come first.

I disagree. I've been able to work with LW's limited undo until now, but I've never been able to do convincing liquids so that makes it higher priority for me :) I can do pretty much anything else in LW to a reasonable extent, character animation, hard body animation, dynamics, fire, all that stuff but realistic liquids are completely out.

At the mo, Layout has undos for move/rotate/scale, a graph editor undo, IKB has its own undo stack (which is handy!), the Node editor has its own undo stack. Some how I've not really needed undos elsewhere. Clearing items has a check, and attribute changes can be undone by the user. I'm not saying it wouldn't be ideal, just that not having undos everywhere doesn't force me to go to another package, being able to do any kind of liquids does mean I do have to go to another package. (of course people say painting meshes etc forces them to go to another package, but that doesn't need to be in the environment where you're animating)

Besides, working on the undo system can be done by a different programmer to a fluid system :)

prometheus
08-22-2012, 01:24 AM
I disagree. I've been able to work with LW's limited undo until now, but I've never been able to do convincing liquids so that makes it higher priority for me :) I can do pretty much anything else in LW to a reasonable extent, character animation, hard body animation, dynamics, fire, all that stuff but realistic liquids are completely out.

At the mo, Layout has undos for move/rotate/scale, a graph editor undo, IKB has its own undo stack (which is handy!), the Node editor has its own undo stack. Some how I've not really needed undos elsewhere. Clearing items has a check, and attribute changes can be undone by the user. I'm not saying it wouldn't be ideal, just that not having undos everywhere doesn't force me to go to another package, being able to do any kind of liquids does mean I do have to go to another package. (of course people say painting meshes etc forces them to go to another package, but that doesn't need to be in the environment where you're animating)

Besides, working on the undo system can be done by a different programmer to a fluid system :)

Pretty much how I would phrase it too, liquids is one of the few things that are quite impossible to get realistic or at least match blender or real flow, in fact it is lousy in terms of what you get as end results from lightwave, a few artist can probably get better looking than someone less skilled, but the toolset within Lightwave for this stuff is an obstacle as it is.

Michael

kopperdrake
08-22-2012, 02:33 AM
I disagree. I've been able to work with LW's limited undo until now, but I've never been able to do convincing liquids so that makes it higher priority for me :) I can do pretty much anything else in LW to a reasonable extent, character animation, hard body animation, dynamics, fire, all that stuff but realistic liquids are completely out.

At the mo, Layout has undos for move/rotate/scale, a graph editor undo, IKB has its own undo stack (which is handy!), the Node editor has its own undo stack. Some how I've not really needed undos elsewhere. Clearing items has a check, and attribute changes can be undone by the user. I'm not saying it wouldn't be ideal, just that not having undos everywhere doesn't force me to go to another package, being able to do any kind of liquids does mean I do have to go to another package. (of course people say painting meshes etc forces them to go to another package, but that doesn't need to be in the environment where you're animating)

Besides, working on the undo system can be done by a different programmer to a fluid system :)

Quoted for agreement. I really can't remember the last time I thought 'I wish I had an undo' in Layout - but then I am an avid scene increment saver. I do know that I've wanted liquids for a long time though, and have turned projects away in the past due to the lack of liquids, or have had to fudge scenes to avoid anything remotely droplet-like when it comes to liquids.

hrgiger
08-22-2012, 02:46 AM
Supposedly there will be fluids with Bullet eventually but that won't be for some time.

Dodgy
08-22-2012, 04:21 AM
Supposedly there will be fluids with Bullet eventually but that won't be for some time.

Someone's already got fluid particles working, so it might not be so far away!

prometheus
08-22-2012, 05:09 AM
Supposedly there will be fluids with Bullet eventually but that won't be for some time.


Someone's already got fluid particles working, so it might not be so far away!

Great info, now I know it might happen, and I know it will happen some day...I think:D

Michael

hrgiger
08-22-2012, 02:18 PM
Someone's already got fluid particles working, so it might not be so far away!

Well 11.5 won't be out til the end of the year so we're probably looking at another year and a half or so at least from this point for LW12.

Dodgy
08-22-2012, 04:09 PM
Well 11.5 won't be out til the end of the year so we're probably looking at another year and a half or so at least from this point for LW12.

So they have lots of time to get it sorted for 12 :)

jeric_synergy
08-22-2012, 04:14 PM
Is RF more expensive than an entire Maya license?

erikals
08-22-2012, 05:06 PM
about the same, a bit more... ($3500 or so)
you can rent RealFlow though, you can't rent Maya...

our best bet right now is that the Turbulence4D programer creates water fluids in the next version...

Titus
08-22-2012, 05:13 PM
Fluid simulation isn't a simple task. I think it's easier to solve the UV pelting tools first. Just look how Liquid Pack development seems to be stalled, it was a great promise: LW plug-in, GPU accelerated, inexpensive, etc.

jeric_synergy
08-22-2012, 05:53 PM
Maybe too inexpensive, and they moved to more lucrative fields.

erikals
08-23-2012, 12:43 AM
...and they moved to more lucrative fields.

they did...?

(yep, it takes more than fast particles to create good fluids...)

jeric_synergy
08-23-2012, 08:32 AM
MAYBE. sheesh.