PDA

View Full Version : Naiad (Liquid Sim) sold to Autodesk



robertoortiz
08-13-2012, 09:36 AM
From an e-mai lmaking the rounds in studios:

Here's the official email:

Dear Naiad customer,
Please be aware that Autodesk has acquired the Naiad fluid simulation
technology in order to accelerate their research and development of
simulation technologies for visual effects.

The Naiad technology, along with the engineering expertise of the
founders of Exotic Matter, are anticipated to benefit not only
Autodesk’s Digital Entertainment Creation solutions, but also Autodesk
research into cloud services for the Media & Entertainment industry.

Your involvement has been crucial to the success of Naiad and I would
like to thank you for supporting Naiad and being a part of the
development of the technology.

As part of the Naiad technology being acquired by Autodesk, you need
to be aware that:

* After Naiad 0.6.1 is released, all further Naiad development will cease.
* The current maintenance term will be the last one offered by Exotic
Matter. All maintenance contracts will be terminated after the current
term expires.
* The full source code for Naiad Studio, Naiad Command Line, and all
Naiad Buddies will be included as part of the Naiad 0.6.1 release.
Due to the development transition to Autodesk, Exotic Matter support
for open-source code will no longer be provided.
* New Naiad licenses are not available through Exotic Matter.
Inquiries should be directed to Autodesk.

I am very excited about the future of the Naiad technology. It is
anticipated that certain Naiad technology may find its way into future
Autodesk offerings and we look forward to working with you to make
this happen.

Sincerely,
Marcus Nordenstam


http://www.exoticmatter.com/
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?id=20307972&siteID=123112

Titus
08-13-2012, 10:03 AM
The Evil Company(TM) is restless.

zarti
08-13-2012, 10:41 AM
eehhh ! .. Naiad, Naiad ..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NibQO7lGwDU




=)

cresshead
08-13-2012, 11:23 AM
it's one of the last things yet to be added into 3dsmax - fluid sims
and they can say the 45% increase in subscriptions is down to acquiring this technology..but i would not put it past autodesk to make this a suite only add on...

50one
08-13-2012, 11:38 AM
being a 3dsmax user this is a great news..., heard it like two weeks ago as a rumour and now it's officially confirmed. Why Autodesk can't buy Solidangle too, I would love to have it too:)

cresshead
08-13-2012, 11:40 AM
being a 3dsmax user this is a great news..., heard it like two weeks ago as a rumour and now it's officially confirmed. Why Autodesk can't buy Solidangle too, I would love to have it too:)

it's on their list....so might modo and lightwave be as well!

50one
08-13-2012, 11:56 AM
it's on their list....so might modo and lightwave be as well!

Lightwave, Modo? Maybe in the future. If only Luxology will do something about the workflow and Viewport performance(so more studios will be using it) than probably Autodesk will start noticing them.

I don't like their Shopping spree but Arnold would be a great addition or "instead of MR" option:)

I wonder if there's anything like buying limit, let's be honest they've got now like 80% of the market covered?Do you think that they're gonna be always the leaders or the giant will fall one day?

Celshader
08-13-2012, 12:04 PM
Will Autodesk maintain Naiad's support (http://www.exoticmatter.com/rendering-options/) for Houdini?

robertoortiz
08-13-2012, 12:10 PM
I am SURE that the answer for that is
no.

Why would they?



I wonder if there's anything like buying limit, let's be honest they've got now like 80% of the market covered?Do you think that they're gonna be always the leaders or the giant will fall one day?



And yes they will fall.
They have a mile wide blind spot in term of the real time market.
I kept hearing at the conference how big studios are looking into adding realtime time tools to at least do their pre vis.
(Dreamworks seems to be on their way to do this)

And to be fair, they seem to be catering WAY TOO MUCH towards the needs of big studios.
-R

Matt
08-13-2012, 12:23 PM
This is why I dislike Autodesk. Innovation should not simply be how deep your pockets are.

50one
08-13-2012, 02:17 PM
Copied from other thread over @ Cgtalk:

http://zipmeme.com/uploads/generated/g1344818475867372055.jpg

Love this image hehe:)

kopperdrake
08-13-2012, 03:34 PM
Their subscription policy makes me avoid them like the plague.

Cageman
08-13-2012, 03:50 PM
Their subscription policy makes me avoid them like the plague.

Like it or not, but subscription IS a good thing for larger companies where it isn't so much about money, rather, it is allways in the budget.

As a private user of LW, I truly like the ease it is to upgrade LW whenever I feel I need or want to. However, I think NewTek should look into adding a subscription model for larger studios, where things are much more slow going.

lardbros
08-13-2012, 04:24 PM
Hmmm, such a shame... another small and innovative tool absorbed by the giant that doesn't innovate. :(

Oh well... at least Newtek looked nice and sporting at Siggy with Rob P always pointing in the direction of the Autodesk stand whenever he mentioned their tools. (Probably didn't even do it on purpose... but it was a good thing to do. You can't ignore them when they're 5 metres away :)

Amurrell
08-13-2012, 09:16 PM
This is why I dislike Autodesk. Innovation should not simply be how deep your pockets are.

Exactly. Acquisition does not equal innovation. It just equals buying up someone else's hard work. I don't know why they (Autodesk) don't go the way of partnerships, except other than to corner the market on certain technologies. In a partnership you could trade ideas and help each other out while only assuming a partial risk in ventures, and encourage innovation by those who have been a part of the development of that technology who share a continued passion for further evolution of the tech in familiar territory and surroundings.

geo_n
08-13-2012, 10:05 PM
Good for users. Bad for competition.

Celshader
08-13-2012, 10:15 PM
Good for users. Bad for competition.

This reminds me of the slogan on the back of Kaneda's jacket (http://www.flickr.com/photos/downtrodden_angel/235844228/):

Good for health. Bad for education.

That said, I agree it is bad for competition. RealFlow no longer has a competitor. :(

geo_n
08-13-2012, 10:31 PM
There's flowline and blender fluids not killed by AD. :D
Until other companies step up there's really nothing anyone can do.

erikals
08-13-2012, 11:10 PM
 
...and Glu3D, and Bullet is working on something (in time... (http://bulletphysics.org/Bullet/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4210))
the Turbulence4D developer had plans to integrate it, not sure if that is still a "go"...

i think the RealFlow price is fair though, especially now that one can rent it.

also there is no need to upgrade.
you can for example choose to use RealFlow for 5+ years without upgrading...
$3000 for 5+ years for good fluids isn't that bad...

RealFlow 2013 >
Alembic format will be available for both geometry AND particles (UNIQUE to RealFlow)
sounds cool too...

 

Ernest
08-13-2012, 11:57 PM
how can you make an acquisition this huge and announce it 2 (business) days after Siggraph ends?

lardbros
08-14-2012, 12:56 AM
It was probably negotiated at Siggraph or something?

Is Flowline actually available to buy as software? I always thought they were a service?

erikals
08-14-2012, 01:16 AM
Flowline is still an in-house tool i think, not for sale.

50one
08-14-2012, 01:22 AM
Hmmm, was thinking about this and to be fair, why only hate autodesk? Why not exotic matter it was them that choose the easiest path and filled their pocket with cash and gave rheir client one way ticket....

Red_Oddity
08-14-2012, 03:25 AM
Flowline is a service, Blender fluids are anything BUT useful in production in its current state (inaccurate, slow, no detail, etc.), not even close to what RF or Naiad can output quality wise.

But i'm sure it will see stellar updates from Autodesk, like they do with Motion Builder, Softimage, 5D Cyborg, ReelViz...oh wait...hahahaha, who am i kidding.

kopperdrake
08-14-2012, 05:05 AM
Like it or not, but subscription IS a good thing for larger companies where it isn't so much about money, rather, it is allways in the budget.

As a private user of LW, I truly like the ease it is to upgrade LW whenever I feel I need or want to. However, I think NewTek should look into adding a subscription model for larger studios, where things are much more slow going.

Oh I agree subscription can be a good thing for larger outfits - assuming you're buying into the software of choice for years ahead. So for something like Maya, with dedicated TDs to tinker with it and provide the artists with tools, then I can see it make sense.

But that negates the whole 'small studio' way of working. The small studio has the flexibility to alter software use much quicker than the larger studios. The decision makers answer to far fewer people, if anyone, the budgets are more transparent, those being affected can be brought in on a decision with less fear of a multitude disagreeing. If I wanted to move to SI, I would talk with a handful of people before making a decision. If a 400-strong studio wanted the same, then it could take months or years.

We do use one piece of AD software, the Inventor Suite, and we have toyed with the idea of subscription (mainly because the resellers keep phoning to re-offer the never-to-be-missed offers on a regular basis), but you just don't know what you will get from one subscription payment to the next, besides the same chunk of money leaving your bank account each year. For big studios that probably doesn't matter as much, for smaller guys you want to see the potential bang-for-buck before laying down those bucks. To me the subscription price with AD, and the penalties for missing out payments, are too great to warrant going that route. A known amount of money for an unknown amount of content in a new version is a bit too much trust in a company for my liking.

In conclusion, I agree with you - a subscription model for LW might not be a bad idea - it might even work for smaller studios if the price were right too. We have bought every iteration of LightWave since starting, but then we did buy it as and when we wanted to buy it. If the updates keep coming as thick and fast as they are at the moment, then we will no doubt continue to do so. But then, if you have a weak version, or a gap longer than expected between versions, and you discover you've paid more than simply just waiting and buying the new version when ready, then you will feel diddled.

I've just argued myself out of subscriptions again...doh! With the non-subscription method, especially as far as small studios are concerned, the onus is on the software provider to prove their software is worth buying AT EACH VERSION. With the subscription method, as far as smaller studios are concerned, the faith needs to be there that the software developer will deliver a worthy set of tools each year for the subscription cost. The danger, if this does not happen, is that the smaller studios begin to feel disgruntled and potentially look elsewhere.

Anyone here from a larger studio and have an opinion when it comes to LightWave and subscriptions?

prometheus
08-14-2012, 06:41 AM
Just found out today from www.creativetools.se

and I had no Idea Naiad was created by some swedes.

Another feather in the hat for Autodesk and they are getting bigger and bigger.

I remember several years ago before naiad existed, I suggested Newtek to get hold of the developers of flowline and get something going there, but obviously it can´t be easy, and especially since it was inhouse.

Im curious to what difficulties Jascha(jawset) is facing when looking in to liquid fluids for TurbulenceFD, rumours was that it seems harder than he expected to code?

water Liquids....one of the few remaining holy grails to solve, we can check smoke and fire to Lightwaves solved list, even though it is third party plugin.

Edit...Newtek aquires Natural motions Endorphin...that would be something wouldn´t it? :) but then again...when did Newtek aquire anything the last time?

Michael

robertoortiz
08-14-2012, 08:20 AM
Edit...Newtek aquires Natural motions Endorphin...that would be something wouldn´t it? :) but then again...when did Newtek aquire anything the last time?

Michael

Ok without thinking too hard...
I would bring into the fold:
LWCad,exrTrader,Worley tools & Turbulence4D
And I would develop strongler ties
with 3D coat, Unity 3d and hell the Blender community (This is not as hard as it seems).


ANYWAY, here is aarticle on the sale:

http://fxguide.com/quicktakes/death-of-naiad-horses-head-in-the-bed-or-vast-opportunity/

Anyone not owned by Autodesk should start joining forces.

Celshader
08-14-2012, 09:02 AM
Flowline is still an in-house tool i think, not for sale.

I heard Scanline sold one copy to CBS Studios, then decided it was better kept as a proprietary tool.


So celshader, why bother about Houdini.

Right now many big studios use Houdini when Maya can't solve the problem. Houdini is gaining more ground, too. Dreamworks bought a site license (http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2002&Itemid=66) of Houdini last year. At a VES screening for Brave, the Pixar VFX leads said they had replaced their older VFX pipeline with proprietary software resting on a backbone of Houdini.

RealFlow's good enough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiNdoCEgBOk) for Houdini work, but I would like to see Houdini maintain a choice of fluid solvers.

lardbros
08-15-2012, 12:35 PM
Hmmm... So, Naiad could be coming to 3dsmax? Interesting, that could be a slight game changer for some.

It was interesting at Siggraph how many studios were using Houdini... even choosing to implement Maya's NCloth and other dynamics tools into Houdini for better control. Also, saw some talks on using Houdini in game development... utilising it's powerful nodal architecture in order to help artists in procedurally generating race-tracks that would get them more than half of the way there.

Houdini is gaining some strong ground! :)

LW3D
08-19-2012, 11:32 AM
cmiVFX released, NAIAD training videos FREE to any and all registered users

http://www.cmivfx.com/tutorials/view/331/NAIAD+Simulating+Liquids+Volume+1

http://www.cmivfx.com/tutorials/view/411/NAIAD+Simulating+Liquids+Volume+2

zarti
08-19-2012, 05:15 PM
thanks for the info .




.cheers

Eagle66
08-20-2012, 11:55 AM
cmiVFX released, NAIAD training videos FREE to any and all registered users

http://www.cmivfx.com/tutorials/view/331/NAIAD+Simulating+Liquids+Volume+1

http://www.cmivfx.com/tutorials/view/411/NAIAD+Simulating+Liquids+Volume+2

Hmm, part three would be the interesting part: How to texture and render a photorealism water simulation from a NAIAD Simulation :hey:

lardbros
08-21-2012, 03:35 PM
Oooooh.... thanks for the heads up! :) Signed up and watching the free stuff :)