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Satera
08-11-2012, 05:24 PM
I'm not sure if anyone has seen this yet/posted yet (sorry if its been said), but it's very cool stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxGk8a1gRjs
Be great to eventually get this incorporated to lightwave, especially with Genoma's rigging. :P

evenflcw
08-11-2012, 05:39 PM
That is great news. That's one more thing to add to the want-list for LW12.

hrgiger
08-11-2012, 06:18 PM
Yes, no need to re-invent the wheel, this is one case where there's no need to be innovative. Its out there waiting to replace CC subdivision in LightWave.

hurley
08-11-2012, 06:59 PM
Definitely looks really well done.. I tried to make a Modeler tool with it without success... not sure what the problem is yet. They're estimating a release date around the end of the year.

-Steve

dblincoe
08-11-2012, 07:10 PM
Exactly what needs to be implemented to bring in a true representation of what is created in Zbrush thru GOZ.

Imagine hitting GOZ from Zbrush and getting this kind of sub-d resolution and the ability to push that poly count.

IgnusFast
08-11-2012, 07:10 PM
That's gorgeous, man! Hard to believe we're getting so close to real-time performance with that level of detail...

LW3D
08-11-2012, 07:57 PM
it looks great...

MAUROCOR
08-11-2012, 08:02 PM
Yes, no need to re-invent the wheel, this is one case where there's no need to be innovative. Its out there waiting to replace CC subdivision in LightWave.



:agree: +1


It is about time to get a CC subdivision in LW that works well! C'mon guys, please!!!

rcallicotte
08-11-2012, 09:55 PM
Someone email this to the Newtek developers. Quick. :D

robpowers3d
08-11-2012, 10:19 PM
Someone email this to the Newtek developers. Quick. :D

We have been looking at this for quite a while ;)

dblincoe
08-11-2012, 10:34 PM
We have been looking at this for quite a while ;)

Can we take this as being in 11.6??? :hey::hey::hey:

BTW...Great showing at Siggraph! Love your focus. It's refreshing to hear you talk about your past and how you got started, goals of empowering individual artists, and future of LW. Well done!

realgray
08-12-2012, 12:40 AM
Looks beautiful.

hrgiger
08-12-2012, 02:51 AM
We have been looking at this for quite a while ;)

Very good to hear Rob.

Nemoid
08-12-2012, 03:08 AM
cool technology !could Lw 12 have this ? :thumbsup:

Emmanuel
08-12-2012, 03:29 AM
I still dont get it, isnt that just a few inches away from "our" SubDs ? Whats so special and required for modeling about them ?

3DGFXStudios
08-12-2012, 04:18 AM
Must have feature for 11.6 ;)

metahumanity
08-12-2012, 04:38 AM
I still dont get it, isnt that just a few inches away from "our" SubDs ? Whats so special and required for modeling about them ?

The speed.

Emmanuel
08-12-2012, 04:46 AM
Isnt the speed in project messiah already better than LWs and do they use those Pixar algorithms ?

rcallicotte
08-12-2012, 08:05 AM
It's not anywhere close to LW 11.

The obvious differences - the exceptional speed, the fantastic texturing, the ability to do animation with such fantastic texturing without breaking a sweat, the brilliant promise of the best subdivision surfaces ever.




I still dont get it, isnt that just a few inches away from "our" SubDs ? Whats so special and required for modeling about them ?

rcallicotte
08-12-2012, 08:11 AM
And this - http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=129931

Thanks to LW3D.

jeric_synergy
08-12-2012, 08:37 AM
Speaking of which: I just did a Search on the dox for "Catmull/Clark" and the references are minimal at best.

I know there's some things that work/fail in CC, but I don't see them in the dox. Are they in there?

3DGFXStudios
08-12-2012, 10:09 AM
Not everything is in the dox...

Dexter2999
08-12-2012, 10:15 AM
So, Pixar invents C/C SubD's.

Now they give us something better? Pixar SubD's.

Very good people over there.

cresshead
08-12-2012, 10:29 AM
looks great...so i guess Maya will have this in their product first..blender probably second!....then others will catch up in their next versions coming out like lightwave12, cinema 15 and 3dsmax 2014 (suite edition!)...then modo 701

MAUROCOR
08-12-2012, 11:01 AM
We have been looking at this for quite a while ;)

That sounds great, Rob!:thumbsup:

LW_Will
08-12-2012, 12:05 PM
Speaking of which: I just did a Search on the dox for "Catmull/Clark" and the references are minimal at best.

I know there's some things that work/fail in CC, but I don't see them in the dox. Are they in there?

Hmm... we were the first to have CC SubD's and much better than any other system IMHO. That's the TAB key, fellows.

I look forward to the Open source implementation.

MAUROCOR
08-12-2012, 12:34 PM
Hmm... we were the first to have CC SubD's and much better than any other system IMHO. That's the TAB key, fellows.

I look forward to the Open source implementation.

Noup, what LW had first was the regular Subpatch subdivision mode (TAB key) for 3 or 4 poly sides.

CC SubD´s is the Catmull Clark mode that allows you to apply in others poly than 3 or 4 sides (n-gons).

You can see more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catmull-Clark_subdivision_surface

jeric_synergy
08-12-2012, 01:37 PM
Not everything is in the dox...
It's really just my way of shaking BeeVee's cage. I'm sick of fogging them....

In LW, for instance, IIRC point weighting doesn't work w/CC subd's, which is something that users need to be reminded of. (I know there's something that's incompatible, if it ain't this.)

Lewis
08-12-2012, 03:29 PM
Amazing stuff and all on GPU :)

here is HD version of presentation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-3L9BOTEtw

KillMe
08-12-2012, 08:22 PM
That sounds great, Rob!:thumbsup:

dont get your hopes up just yet - he said looking at not busy implimenting - but is encouraging that they are at least thinking about it

Serling
08-12-2012, 08:40 PM
dont get your hopes up just yet - he said looking at not busy implimenting - but is encouraging that they are at least thinking about it

They'd be nuts not to get something like this into Modeler ASAP. The semi-sharp creases/edges alone would be the game changer for me. I hate modeling in sub-d's as they are now.

data3d
08-12-2012, 08:57 PM
looks great...so i guess Maya will have this in their product first..blender probably second!....then others will catch up in their next versions coming out like lightwave12, cinema 15 and 3dsmax 2014 (suite edition!)...then modo 701

I use both Lightwave and modo, and wanted to note that modo has had the option of Pixar Sub-D's since 501. Certainly not wanting to start any sort of flame war, but just wanted to cast my vote that it's awesome technology, and I hope Rob and his team can work to incorporate it quickly into 11.5!!

KillMe
08-12-2012, 09:18 PM
They'd be nuts not to get something like this into Modeler ASAP. The semi-sharp creases/edges alone would be the game changer for me. I hate modeling in sub-d's as they are now.

yeah they would be but look at the trouble with cc sud division surfaces in modeler - if they cant get that working right surely this will be even harder to sort out

Serling
08-12-2012, 09:34 PM
yeah they would be but look at the trouble with cc sud division surfaces in modeler - if they cant get that working right surely this will be even harder to sort out

I'm not a programmer, so I can't address what it takes to implement new code, but if they've been looking at this for awhile, there's hope that they've already figured out how to work it in. And while 11.5 may be too soon to release it, I'd put my money on 12.

Philbert
08-12-2012, 09:41 PM
I was excited when I first heard the news the other day, but after watching the video it doesn't really look that special. It has Ptex, but wouldn't that be part of the main app? I mean if LWG fixed the CC tearing issues that we have and added Ptex support to LW, we would basically have this.

DogBoy
08-13-2012, 01:41 AM
It would be nice if NT fixed the CC-SubDs as is, before adding this.

hrgiger
08-13-2012, 02:47 AM
It would be nice if NT fixed the CC-SubDs as is, before adding this.

It would be better for them just to replace it with this. We'd be losing nothing and gaining everything.

zarti
08-13-2012, 09:37 AM
It would be better for them just to replace it with this. We'd be losing nothing and gaining everything.

not a real reply to your post but just wanted to say ;

your new avatar looks a lot better than the official one .

it simply .. makes sense , when one starts thinking .

Nice touch !




.cheers

rcallicotte
08-13-2012, 10:38 AM
:agree:


It would be better for them just to replace it with this. We'd be losing nothing and gaining everything.

cagey5
08-13-2012, 12:04 PM
not a real reply to your post but just wanted to say ;

your new avatar looks a lot better than the official one .

it simply .. makes sense , when one starts thinking .

Nice touch !




.cheers

Agreed. And so adaptable. Just think how they could modify it to show off the latest FiberFX improvements.

wyattharris
08-13-2012, 12:32 PM
Agreed. And so adaptable. Just think how they could modify it to show off the latest FiberFX improvements.
Lol, you win.

LW_Will
08-13-2012, 12:48 PM
Noup, what LW had first was the regular Subpatch subdivision mode (TAB key) for 3 or 4 poly sides.

CC SubD´s is the Catmull Clark mode that allows you to apply in others poly than 3 or 4 sides (n-gons).

You can see more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catmull-Clark_subdivision_surface

Okay... maybe they weren't CC subdivision, but I don't think the original version of subds weren't either. Thing is, you don't want to make CC Subds from many 5 points plus. You want to make things with 4 points...

I'm very happy that this change is happening!

Lewis
08-13-2012, 01:08 PM
Okay... maybe they weren't CC subdivision, but I don't think the original version of subds weren't either. Thing is, you don't want to make CC Subds from many 5 points plus. You want to make things with 4 points...

That really depend son what you are building, Ngons with CCs/PixarSdS work just fine on flat areas, even on some curved so they are usable in those subDs unlike LW native SubPatches. Ngons aren't for characters/deforming stuff but for some industrial stuff they work pretty well.

Tobian
08-13-2012, 01:14 PM
Here's hoping it makes it into LW, it would really help witht he display of subdivision objects.. I wonder how well it would behave with instancing?

hrgiger
08-13-2012, 01:32 PM
Thanks Zarti.

Come to think of it, with the kind of performance we're seeing with Pixar Open Subdiv, it would pretty much make not only CC subdivision obsolete, but also traditional LightWave subpatches. Better performance, ngons, hard creases... why use anytihng else?

Sensei
08-13-2012, 01:35 PM
For backward compatibility? Loading old scenes without distortion?

Tobian
08-13-2012, 01:36 PM
...because your model doesn't magic it's self to being Pixar subD's... Even if they added this I am sure there would be gotchas, like there are with CC subd's (like broken UV maps and edge weights etc). So until it's fully implemented, you may want to stick with what's there. It will also change the look of the curvatures, to, no doubt superior, but if you need to keep the old version around for compatibility...

MAUROCOR
08-13-2012, 01:37 PM
That really depend son what you are building, Ngons with CCs/PixarSdS work just fine on flat areas, even on some curved so they are usable in those subDs unlike LW native SubPatches. Ngons aren't for characters/deforming stuff but for some industrial stuff they work pretty well.

Even characters can have more than 3 or 4 sides if used in a wise way. It is important to keep in mind they don´t have to be used in regions that bends too much. Other than that it is ok.

In the CC Pixar SubD case it looks much more advanced in so many ways like having more control on the creases and a much better performance.

My vote goes to change the current CC subd for this new one!

Have it in LW 12 would be great.

hrgiger
08-13-2012, 01:49 PM
@ Tobian and Sensei-

True true. Backwards compatability yes.... Although I admit I wasn't even thinking of older projects, just newer ones when I said why use anything else. If Open Subdiv was added to LightWave, I could see never using LW subpatches and certainly not CC subdivision ever again...

But yes, backwards compatability with past and present content is definitely a reason to keep LW subpatches around.... But for me, it would make LW subpatches into the next sock monkey.

Philbert
08-13-2012, 02:16 PM
I'm not sure I really see that much of a speed increase from the video shown. Also we have no idea what kind of horsepower was used in that computer.

zarti
08-13-2012, 02:34 PM
Agreed. And so adaptable. Just think how they could modify it to show off the latest FiberFX improvements.

agreed . but to demo FFX it wd be necessary to render it again .

and to adapt even better not to render an opening shirt , but his pants ..


;)

cagey5
08-13-2012, 02:46 PM
Now there's an image I'd rather not have in my head. :)

Lewis
08-13-2012, 02:52 PM
I'm not sure I really see that much of a speed increase from the video shown. Also we have no idea what kind of horsepower was used in that computer.

Hmm you didn't see speed ??? Guy had millions and millions of polys at GUI (Wireframe looked like contiguous mesh due so dense wire) and all that at 30+ FPS on GFX card - that frog thing was displayed with so many polys at openGL that it looked unreal and all that with spec/gloss/displacements and animating bones - try to animate such mesh in Layout with display subpatch (or CCs) at level 15 and then check that video again :D :).

I'd be happy to buy Quadro or FireGL (even in their current overpriced states) if LW would know to use them bit it doesn't so it's same for us 200$ or 2000$ GFX card (currently) :(.

hrgiger
08-13-2012, 03:00 PM
Hmm you didn't see speed ??? Guy had millions and millions of polys at GUI (Wireframe looked like contiguous mesh due so dense wire) and all that at 30+ FPS on GFX card - that frog thing was displayed with so many polys at openGL that it looked unreal and all that with spec/gloss/displacements and animating bones - try to animate such mesh in Layout with display subpatch (or CCs) at level 15 and then check that video again :D :).



Yeah, I was blown away by the performance. I've definitely never seen that kind of performance in LightWave.

Philbert
08-13-2012, 04:33 PM
Maybe I misheard something. It looked like a low poly object that he subdivided 5 times.

Lewis
08-14-2012, 01:08 AM
Maybe I misheard something. It looked like a low poly object that he subdivided 5 times.

Ofcourse it is low poly mesh subdivided (otherwise wouldn't have any sense in subDs) but look how many polys he is having after subdivision it. It's so dense and he can animate that live without any hiccups. Did you missed part where he shows/says "subdivided Interactively Real Time in GPU......as you can see now we have more vertices than pixels on monitor..."

Starting from 11m 25sec

and watch this HD version 'coz on low quality version i guess you can miss how dense the mesh actually is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-3L9BOTEtw

and then go to 14m 15s to see that he is deforming/animating this mesh with BONES in RT. Not low poly cage 0 or 1 as in LW but on same that Level 5 :).

Also remember that LW Subpatches level 5 has LOT Less polys than CatmulClarke (OpenSubdiv) subDs (that's why i said try to subdivide mesh 15 times in LW ;)). When i say LOT less i mean it :).

6 sided BOX subdivided to Level 5 Subpatches = 152 Quads
6 sided BOX subdivided to Level 5 CCs = 6146 Quads

1568 polys BOX subdivided to Level 5 subpatches = 38 400 Quads
1568 polys BOX subdivided to Level 5 CCs = 1 572 866 Quads (yes 1.5mil)

If that's not enough of difference to tell you how this thing performs then I'm sorry but yes you are missing the point somehow :).

Sensei
08-14-2012, 01:33 AM
If LW would start using multi-core while calculating sub-patches, it would immediately start working 8 times faster on Core i7 and 16 times faster on dual Xeon..

hrgiger
08-14-2012, 02:39 AM
If LW would start using multi-core while calculating sub-patches, it would immediately start working 8 times faster on Core i7 and 16 times faster on dual Xeon..

True but why would you want that if you could transfer the load of subdivision surfaces to the GPU like open subdiv does since LightWave uses the CPU for rendering?

Sensei
08-14-2012, 02:51 AM
You don't have these two things simultaneously!

In LW freezing sub-patches is made at beginning of every frame. Then there is needed to prepare kd-trees basing on vertex positions that are received from freezing sub-patches..

Using GPU acceleration is completely against bucket rendering and dynamic generation of meshes during ray-tracing when ray is flying through scene..

GPU efficiency is pure result of using so many GPU cores. Single GPU core is SLOW. But if you will have 96 like in GF 430 or 240 in some other GF, it's huge number slow cores parallel working together. But task must be easily transportable to multi-threading. With sub-patches one GPU/CPU core can take one sub-patch and process it and output final frozen polygons. So 240 GPU cores will be outputting 240*3*3=2160 polygons at the same time from 240 source sub-patches 3x3 (traditional LW one lets say).

ps. In previous post, I was talking about Modeler. Making freezing sub-patches is change in just one-two functions polygonhandler->genMesh()/update().

DogBoy
08-14-2012, 05:10 AM
My concern is that everything shown is the equivalent of Layouts sub-division, but much faster. What would it be like in Modeler where the mesh is not necessarily being just deformed by bones or images? Modeler may possibly have a problem.

We'll see.

zarti
08-14-2012, 06:23 AM
as far as i could remember from the video , the real mesh was FaithFully generated following the displacement map applied for rendering . that means that , what you were able to see on a rendered image , now you are able to see in viewport as a mesh . and at a great performance . thats adorable . you can see in realtime your final result , while you animate or light or whateva ..



.cheers

SAHiN
08-14-2012, 07:01 AM
We have been looking at this for quite a while ;)

Great news Rob..
I wish we had that now.. Being right in the middle of producing a full feature animated film it would really help :)

tburbage
08-15-2012, 06:15 PM
It's really just my way of shaking BeeVee's cage. I'm sick of fogging them....

In LW, for instance, IIRC point weighting doesn't work w/CC subd's, which is something that users need to be reminded of. (I know there's something that's incompatible, if it ain't this.)

LW's CC does support edge weighting while the original Subpatch does not, although a good modeler toolset for manipulating edge weights was never completed.

Pixar SDS supports local subdivision density (adaptive subdivision), not just uniform subdivision, so greater density can be put just where needed.

This tantalizing little mention was also made on the "Beta and Release Information" page as supported:
"Ptex texture color and displacement.

As speculated on in another thread before I knew of this one, if LW could do a really good job of integrating this and providing good tool support, and for example if Autodesk were also to embrace and add support in .FBX, then there really could be a good transport story for SDS models across apps -- and hopefully, into LW for rendering... Don't know about ZB, but I could easily see Andrew over at 3D-Coat taking this and running with it as well.

Philbert
08-15-2012, 07:04 PM
Personally I've always tried to avoid using edge weighting anyway, in the event that the model needs to go into another program or something the weighting may not be recognized.

jeric_synergy
08-15-2012, 08:17 PM
?? Did we really have edge weighting? I thought just point weighting.

Sensei
08-15-2012, 08:40 PM
Of course.

Traditional sub-patch has point weighting.
Catmull-Clark sub-patch has edge weighting.
It works fine.

But the all modeling tools, except EasySplit, have no idea about how to handle this weight map (because they were written in times there was no CC and edge weighting, so how they could support it?), and if they're cutting polygon, they are making 2 (or more) new polygons, and removing old reference source polygon and edge weighting is gone. Deleted information together with source polygon.
And people constantly are saying (incorrectly) "CC edge weighting is still broken!", "when they will fix it?!"..
No. CC edge weighting routines are completely fine..
Just the all modeling tools have no idea about existence of such data attached to polygons..
And they will never "fix it"..

Philbert
08-15-2012, 09:07 PM
?? Did we really have edge weighting? I thought just point weighting.

Yeah make some CC sub-Ds, select an edge an look under Detail > Set Sharpness. 100% makes it nice and crisp unfortunately if you try to do anything like cut across it with Knife it falls apart.

rcallicotte
08-15-2012, 09:26 PM
Thanks for the explanation. I've heard this was broken for so long, I had assumed it was a correct assessment. This makes sense.

Hopefully, the tools will be revamped or changed or made into something useful and creative...and even wonderful.



Of course.

Traditional sub-patch has point weighting.
Catmull-Clark sub-patch has edge weighting.
It works fine.

But the all modeling tools, except EasySplit, have no idea about how to handle this weight map (because they were written in times there was no CC and edge weighting, so how they could support it?), and if they're cutting polygon, they are making 2 (or more) new polygons, and removing old reference source polygon and edge weighting is gone. Deleted information together with source polygon.
And people constantly are saying (incorrectly) "CC edge weighting is still broken!", "when they will fix it?!"..
No. CC edge weighting routines are completely fine..
Just the all modeling tools have no idea about existence of such data attached to polygons..
And they will never "fix it"..

Snosrap
08-15-2012, 09:36 PM
Yeah make some CC sub-Ds, select an edge an look under Detail > Set Sharpness. 100% makes it nice and crisp unfortunately if you try to do anything like cut across it with Knife it falls apart.

Catmull-Clark subD's only suport edge weights and LW Subpatches only support point weighting. Pixar SubD's support edge weighting AND point weighting. NT needs to implement, and as Sensei points out, they need to re-write their tools. Another reason why they need to just start over with a new modeler.

jeric_synergy
08-16-2012, 12:46 AM
Thanks for the education, Sensei, Snosrap.

Tobian
08-16-2012, 02:15 AM
So... if they implement Pixar SubD's... all the tools won't work with those either. Oh joy :-( They could at least try and fix knife and the mirror tools to respect edges: that would fix 99% of my problems with CC edges?

kopperdrake
08-16-2012, 02:31 AM
Well, as Rob himself said (with a wink I might add), that the LightWave Group (LWG rather than NT for me from now on), have been looking at this technology for a while now, it makes me think that if they have, then they are also painfully aware of the limitations of their own Modeler toolset when it comes to hacking and slashing their own CCs.

Now, to me, I'm sure it makes much more sense, if they are thinking of integrating this technology, then it will also mean a compliant toolset as well. If you are going to rewrite the toolset in order to work with a sub-division tech, then it makes much more sense to do so for the latest and greatest sub-division tech.

Following this chain of thought through, adding in the 'we've only just started to work on Modeler' type comments, makes me wonder if indeed, Modeler is going through some major changes for LW12.

I can only hope so - many, many people would be truly happy with that news

Tobian
08-16-2012, 02:39 AM
Well certainly they have shown the new chamfer to is edge aware... so...

Sensei
08-16-2012, 02:41 AM
So... if they implement Pixar SubD's... all the tools won't work with those either. Oh joy :-(

Cutting tools-true.

Tools just modifying vertex positions, leaving polygons intact, would work fine (those in Modify tab).


They could at least try and fix knife and the mirror tools to respect edges: that would fix 99% of my problems with CC edges?

http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/EasySplit/Graphics/Movies/EasySplit_Edge_Weight_Preserved_1.mov

DogBoy
08-16-2012, 03:09 AM
So... if they implement Pixar SubD's... all the tools won't work with those either. Oh joy :-( They could at least try and fix knife and the mirror tools to respect edges: that would fix 99% of my problems with CC edges?

Which is why the new stuff in Modeler 11.5 is a ray of hope.

kopperdrake
08-16-2012, 03:42 AM
Given the rapid changes to Layout we're seeing since Rob has taken the helm, I am more inclined to think that Modeler is in for some serious loving, either as a standalone or integrated in some capacity. Two years ago I wouldn't have thought it possible - these days it's much harder to figure out just what is up the LWG's collective sleeve and what is or isn't possible.

tburbage
08-19-2012, 03:45 PM
This is a blog post from Craig Barr of Mudbox with more info, and a video of the Pixar team's OpenSubdiv Project Siggraph presentation:

http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/craig/pixar--opensubdiv-with-mudbox-and-maya

tburbage
12-23-2017, 01:05 PM
Bumping this discussion, now 5 years old. I had hoped the recent meshing engine update might include an update of CC Subdiv to Open Subdiv. Even 5 years ago in its initial introduction to Maya it looked blazingly fast, and now the library has had 5 years to mature and be optimized. I wonder if there's any chance to see Open Subdiv in LightWave in the near future...

gar26lw
12-23-2017, 03:46 PM
rob said they were looking at it. maybe that was literally what he meant? they looked.

tburbage
12-26-2017, 11:44 AM
rob said they were looking at it. maybe that was literally what he meant? they looked.

Yeah, "looking at" is pretty vague... I find it depressing that the LWO format actually got changed (not backward compatible) without including a strategic update to LW's subdivision surfaces tech. IMHO, this is just as important in the long run as the shading and rendering pipeline update, and together, would bring LW's foundations up a very modern state (UI and undo/history stack aside).

If any 2018 beta testers read this, I was wondering, can you toggle on SubD for a mesh from Layout now at least? e.g. you import a model or scene from Maya or Modo via FBX with meshes that had been SubD in those apps, you still have to go through Modeler to enable SubD? Having to go to Modeler just to do this seems so clunky...

Ztreem
12-26-2017, 02:03 PM
If any 2018 beta testers read this, I was wondering, can you toggle on SubD for a mesh from Layout now at least? e.g. you import a model or scene from Maya or Modo via FBX with meshes that had been SubD in those apps, you still have to go through Modeler to enable SubD? Having to go to Modeler just to do this seems so clunky...

You’ve been able to do this since at least lw 9.6, maybe even earlier...

Snosrap
12-26-2017, 05:39 PM
I find it depressing that the LWO format actually got changed (not backward compatible) without including a strategic update to LW's subdivision surfaces tech. IMHO, this is just as important in the long run as the shading and rendering pipeline update, and together, would bring LW's foundations up a very modern state (UI and undo/history stack aside).

Maybe they did update the .lwo format for new subdivision schemes. Actually I can't imagine that they didn't. Core had different schemes available. As far as history stack, I doubt we'll ever see it. :)

hrgiger
12-26-2017, 06:33 PM
OD copy and paste will keep subD's on if you're copying and pasting from Modo to LW. It also respects if you're using regular SubDs or CC SubD's even though Modo has the Pixar SubDs, they're both implementations of Catmull Clark.

Modo also has OpenSubdiv support (3.0 in Modo 11) but its more used for mesh deformations in animation rather than for modeling SubDs. It uses the Pixar SubDs for modeling.

tburbage
12-31-2017, 01:07 AM
You’ve been able to do this since at least lw 9.6, maybe even earlier...

Are you confusing being able to change subdivision display and render levels for a mesh already in SubD mode with being able to enable SubD on an ordinary mesh? If you know a way to do the latter in Layout, can you explain?

hypersuperduper
12-31-2017, 01:36 AM
In the modeler tools tab in layout there is a toggle sub-d button.

Ztreem
12-31-2017, 04:22 AM
Are you confusing being able to change subdivision display and render levels for a mesh already in SubD mode with being able to enable SubD on an ordinary mesh? If you know a way to do the latter in Layout, can you explain?

No, its as hypersuperduper says, just select the object to subD and press the toggle subD button.

tburbage
01-01-2018, 10:51 AM
Thanks for the tip ZStreem and hyersuperduper - I never knew that was there. Unfortunately it toggles the old Subpatch and not Catmull-Clark...