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jeric_synergy
08-07-2012, 11:30 PM
So, following a tutorial on patching (Thanks, Larry!):

SIMPLE, simple object. (attached) Won't patch in one section as is. Now, divide (and smooth) the last spline at the point indicated on the jpeg, then it patches.

WHY is that?

Is it something you just have to shrug and live with, or am I doing something wrong?

Waves of light
08-08-2012, 01:05 AM
It patches for me, but I have to select them in a specific order (see attached)

Cheers,

Ricky.

jeric_synergy
08-08-2012, 01:32 AM
It patches for me, but I have to select them in a specific order (see attached).
Now, that's interesting. And eff'd up: obviously it should always work, assuming the selection order is valid. Users should be able to select in any valid order and expect a successful patch.

Thanks for the research! :thumbsup:

Waves of light
08-08-2012, 01:38 AM
Now, that's interesting. And eff'd up: obviously it should always work, assuming the selection order is valid. Users should be able to select in any valid order and expect a successful patch.

Thanks for the research! :thumbsup:

Not a problem.

Come to think of it, I remember this being mentioned in one of Lewis' car tutorials... having to select the horizontal spline first and then the rest in clockwise, anti-clockwise order.

Eff'd up... like a lot of the little gotchas with LW and plugins.

Ricky.

nomad108
08-08-2012, 03:12 AM
The patch sequence is probably being confused by the fact that both the quad section in the back and the tri section in the front are valid patchable selections. That's why you have to split the bottom spline to make the tri section unselected.

jeric_synergy
08-08-2012, 08:55 AM
Come to think of it, I remember this being mentioned in one of Lewis' car tutorials... having to select the horizontal spline first and then the rest in clockwise, anti-clockwise order.

Eff'd up... like a lot of the little gotchas with LW and plugins.

YES! So many little speed bumps: it's hard to get momentum.

It's a rare modeling session where I don't find a 1) flat out bug or 2) very dodgy design 'decision'.

Hmmm, "horizontal"... I'm not sure how that's defined in this context: obviously everything could be in the XY plane. "Least variation"? "Most flat"?

Thanks man, good to know. Probably only going to come up in problem patching.
+++++++++++

The patch sequence is probably being confused by the fact that both the quad section in the back and the tri section in the front are valid patchable selections. That's why you have to split the bottom spline to make the tri section unselected.
Excellent point, Nomad: probably the "real" reason.

IMO, this situation should have a specific ERROR MESSAGE alerting the user as to WHY the patching operation is failing. Notice Nomad had to say "probably" above, because who can tell? Certainly the error message doesn't help.

VERILY, some of the messages seem designed to frustrate the user and defeat debugging of modeling operations. The msgs that say "a point is blah blah blah"-- why not INDICATE which point or which possible points are the issue?

With better error messages, I bet a lot more users would use Spline Patching.

Waves of light
08-08-2012, 11:32 AM
YES!

Hmmm, "horizontal"... I'm not sure how that's defined in this context: obviously everything could be in the XY plane. "Least variation"? "Most flat"?

Thanks man, good to know. Probably only going to come up in problem patching.
+++++++++++

Excellent point, Nomad: probably the "real" reason.



Yer, horizontal ain't going to work in an environmental where you can change your viewing angle, lol.

Nomads does sound like the real reason.

Oh well, I've learnt to sidestep some pitfalls, but I'm sure there will be more.

Don't let em get to you man, you seemed really steamed all the time, especially when it comes to LW. Hope versions 11.5 and 12 will bring some peace. :thumbsup:

jeric_synergy
08-08-2012, 12:43 PM
Don't let em get to you man, you seemed really steamed all the time, especially when it comes to LW.
They SAY do what you're good at, but they don't mean it. :hey:

FWIW, I think most software is pretty poorly designed, but I get the feeling that the LW devs rarely run stuff past average users, or put themselves in the shoes of someone who didn't actually code the stuff. To many extremely questionable UI decisions have been made over the decades to convince me of anything else.

I think Rob P. might be able to change that culture a bit. And I know there's some weird history of the code that the devs are fighting their way out from under: for instance, the repeated use of an "Activation" paradigm in various subsystems, and the dialog/response paradigm of many tools, in contrast with "hot" inputs (iow, input dialogs instead of just changing a displayed value where it lives).

AND, I don't think programmers are gods, and I really don't care about their convenience. Just 'cuz it's easy for them to make rubbish error messages, I don't think they should get a pass on it. I'm on the side of the users.

I live near Microsoft: I know what programmers can be like.

Waves of light
08-08-2012, 01:05 PM
Yer, agree that Mr Powers seems to be having a positive effect on new processes/directions, but I don't think we'll ever see all the bugs fixed, even though NT did say that point releases would only be for bug fixes. I don't think they could possibly squash everything, there's so many little things left behind in the code IMO.

New stuff will come in, because that's what sells. I wonder when/if we'll see a unified app, and if so, will that be the start of the code clearout.

I've been lucky enough to work with two amazing programmers, they taught me a lot, but yes, I bet living near the 'dark army' programmers is a different experience.

Ricky.

Sensei
08-08-2012, 04:57 PM
Is it something you just have to shrug and live with, or am I doing something wrong?

Loaded your object in Modeler v11.0.3.
Pressed EasySpline..
And it's screen-shot:

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106067&stc=1&d=1344466355

High lighting turned on. Yellow point means it's used by 2 or more splines. Red point means point is used by just one spline.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106068&stc=1&d=1344466438

jeric_synergy
08-09-2012, 09:14 PM
Sensei, that's very nice.