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torturebori007
08-06-2012, 08:39 PM
Well actually Im not sure how to start if you see the attached image. I want to make that A neon sign.

Glowing and all.

But where I am stuck is thinking of the process I need to take.

Do I model the tubes and then the inner lighting?

I want to eventually animate this, maybe having a close shot starting from behind the sign, with it flickering and them zooming out to show the lite sign.

But I want to model this right the first time to help the animating process later.

Any help would be great.

Dexter2999
08-07-2012, 02:15 AM
This might help
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEzcsk9r4zY&playnext=1&list=PLBBB2816C9F9F2199&feature=results_video

Waves of light
08-07-2012, 03:03 AM
This might help
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEzcsk9r4zY&playnext=1&list=PLBBB2816C9F9F2199&feature=results_video

Lol, beat me to it.

@torturebori007: If you require your text to actually have tube thickness, you could always make a spline along the contours of each letter, then use rail extrude to get this result (see attached)

zardoz
08-07-2012, 04:11 AM
well some years ago I did a few neons.
I modelled the outside tube and an inside one to fake the light from the gas.
so probably the best would be to look for references on the web, to decide what to model.

https://www.google.pt/search?num=10&hl=en&safe=off&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1192&bih=939&q=neon&oq=neon&gs_l=img.3..0l10.1558.1972.0.2251.4.4.0.0.0.0.89.3 23.4.4.0...0.0...1ac.aBaqZWsHjTU

http://www.illusive.pt/image/work/18core/core01.jpg
http://www.illusive.pt/image/work/18core/core02.jpg
http://www.illusive.pt/image/work/18core/core03.jpg
http://www.illusive.pt/image/work/18core/core04.jpg
http://www.illusive.pt/image/work/18core/core05.jpg
http://www.illusive.pt/image/work/18core/core06.jpg

Waves of light
08-07-2012, 04:13 AM
@zardoz: wow, nice setup. So outer tubing is just transparent material, inside tube hi luminosity?

zardoz
08-07-2012, 04:21 AM
yes. the outer tube has a glass material with a reflection map. The inner tube has some turbulence in the transparency, multiplied with a gradient to make it more solid in the front and more transparent in the sides, also it has the edge transparency shader applied. I also created zones with an opaque surface to simulate some of the bends. And some pins to add some credibility.
The color is an incidence gradient, ex. the red light has a gradient from white, to yellow, orange and red.
I had to use lots of small linear lights to get this effect because I wasn't getting it with gi alone. And the client wanted a white background only to make it more difficult.

torturebori007
08-07-2012, 04:22 AM
Dexter - Thanks I saw that video by William like 5 times. But I want a more real effect since I plan on having a close up of the lights.

Waves of light - very nice thats something I like to do

zardos - Thats exactly what I would like to accomplish. Care to share some hints, please

Waves of light
08-07-2012, 04:24 AM
@zardoz: Thanks for the share.

@torturebori007: Go with zardoz's ideas, the results look amazing.

torturebori007
08-07-2012, 04:30 AM
holy crap, the more i look at it. Its so cool, lol.

Hmm Zardos explanation was good, but he lost me when he went into the node section.
I will try to decipher what he said...I will take a go at this, I am by no means a pro but I am willing to put in the time.

stay tuned I am sure to have more questions

Thanks guys

zardoz
08-07-2012, 04:31 AM
it has no nodes...it was done in lw8 ;) (I don't remember if lw8 already had nodes...)

Waves of light
08-07-2012, 04:51 AM
it has no nodes...it was done in lw8 ;)

Lol - old school.

zardoz
08-07-2012, 04:59 AM
actually I am a big liar. I just found the scenes and it has nodes, but it can perfectly be done without it.
and I was sure I was using edge transparency...well no. lol my nose is really getting bigger. I guess I'm getting old and my little grey cells are starting to fail on me.

This is a project from 2007 so it's a bit old now. It needs optimization for sure but now I can't do it.
So I am sharing it here so you guys can see what's there. I simply tried a test render and it is a bit slow.

Waves of light
08-07-2012, 05:00 AM
actually I am a big liar. I just found the scenes and it has nodes, but it can perfectly be done without it.
and I was sure I was using edge transparency...well no. lol my nose is really getting bigger. I guess I'm getting old and my little grey cells are starting to fail on me.

This is a project from 2007 so it's a bit old now. It needs optimization for sure but now I can't do it.
So I am sharing it here so you guys can see what's there. I simply tried a test render and it is a bit slow.

Wow, that's really generous of you mate. Will download, pull apart and see what it's like in LW11. Cheers.

torturebori007
08-07-2012, 05:41 AM
Yes this is REALLY nice of you.
Like waves said, I will try to figure it out by looking into how you created it.

Waves of light - if you see something or think of something that might help me out please dont hold back, lol.

Waves without doing anything to the file can you tell me how long it takes you to render this file. please

as one frame took me 23 minutes on my machine. Now like i've said Im not expert

I am using a 27" IMac 16g Ram with 3.4 Intel Core I7

zardoz
08-07-2012, 05:48 AM
check the resolution please, this was for print. so it is probably around 3 or 4k pixels. and change the global illumination settings accordingly to the resolution.

torturebori007
08-07-2012, 06:00 AM
Oh please I hope you dont take that as complaining. Im just really new to this and there are certain things I dont know so I just ask a lot of questions.

By the way, very nice portfolio Zardos

zardoz
08-07-2012, 06:10 AM
no worries. feel free to ask anything.

Waves of light
08-07-2012, 06:16 AM
Just opened up the scene file. Res is 928x291 pixels - so approx 3 x 1 inches (at 300dpi) and 6 x 2 (a 150 dpi). Now I don't use or have the SG Ambient node, so that wasn't used when I loaded up the scene (don't know if that will make any difference to the render times).

Operating system: Win 7 64bit
Layout version: 11.0.3 64bit

Intel Q6660 @3ghz (OC) and 8G RAM

Time (F9 render): currently at 24% 15m in and still 30mins to go

Now, going back to modeling your version torturebori007. I would create a spline around the contours of each letter. Then create a disc and Rail Extrude to create your tubing. Then cut it up into segments (to get zardoz look) use this as your outer tube. Then copy and past to a new layer and reduce each section (inner tube).

Then break down Zardoz's textures for inner and outer and try to re-produce.

Ricky.

zardoz
08-07-2012, 06:56 AM
the final resolution probably is what I have in the camera settings at 100%
for the inner tube use Daz_Point normal move to create the new thinner tube

Waves of light
08-07-2012, 07:26 AM
Yes, camera was set to 25% multiplier.

Daz point normal. Not heard of that one. I was thinking of reusing the spline with a smaller disc and re rail extrude again. Will check your suggestion.

Cheers,

Ricky.

zardoz
08-07-2012, 07:46 AM
ok I checked the scene and of course having so many lights you pay a price. I changed the light samples from 8 to 1 and AA minsamples=1 maxsamples=8 AS=0.01. This reduces the time a lot (4x faster) and there isn't much difference in the render.

torturebori007
08-07-2012, 07:53 AM
Am at work now but I cat wait to get home and go at this...I should have called in, hahaha

Waves of light
08-07-2012, 08:00 AM
ok I checked the scene and of course having so many lights you pay a price. I changed the light samples from 8 to 1 and AA minsamples=1 maxsamples=8 AS=0.01. This reduces the time a lot (4x faster) and there isn't much difference in the render.

That's interesting. Thanks.

EDIT: I found 'Point Normal Move' through modelers edit menu section and assigned it to mouse button lists. Works well, maybe need to check ends and bends when done.

torturebori007
08-09-2012, 09:10 PM
Waves did you get anywhere with this?

If I can assume, you have way more experience then I do.

I hope to have something tomorrow night. Well Im in America. Im not the best at anyone thing in lightwave but I sure am trying.

But this is why I like this place, everyone helps each other out

jeric_synergy
08-09-2012, 09:22 PM
Zardoz, really nice of you to upload that sample, very generous. :thumbsup:

That's a gorgeous render: you just saved the OP a LOT of time.

Waves of light
08-10-2012, 01:52 AM
Waves did you get anywhere with this?

If I can assume, you have way more experience then I do.

I started playing with Zardoz's scene and taking the materials apart, then a job came in and the Siggraph live feeds took over way too much of my time, lol.

More experience, that depends... I use LW for about 20% of my overall work, would love it too be 100%. I can model, animate but I struggle with lighting and texturing - so I'm really happy when generous people like Zardoz hand out scenes, with lighting and texture setups. The best way to learn is to pull apart something that already works and see how it was done.

Be sure to check out Zardoz other bit of generosity (note - pay attention to the comments in the thread, how other users reduced the render times by changing just a couple of settings and the pros and cons behind these changes):

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=129817

I'll try and post something today, or over the weekend.

Looking forward to your version.

Ricky.