PDA

View Full Version : Lattice!



erikals
08-01-2012, 12:47 PM
Maya has it
Max has it
xSI has it
C4D has it
Blender has it
Modo guys are requesting it

c'mon!...

 

drako
08-01-2012, 12:59 PM
yes yes please.......;

Sensei
08-01-2012, 01:49 PM
Does LW have modifier/history stack? Because I don't recall..

erikals
08-01-2012, 02:30 PM
no need for a modifier/history stack.

UnCommonGrafx
08-01-2012, 02:44 PM
Ok, I will ask...

Why such a response?
Why is it that you feel that's needed?


Does LW have modifier/history stack? Because I don't recall..

Sensei
08-01-2012, 02:47 PM
Without modifier/history stack this tool will be very limited..

Sensei
08-01-2012, 02:49 PM
Why is it that you feel that's needed?

Don't you want it to work with bones?
Don't you want it to work with other deformations?

erikals
08-01-2012, 02:51 PM
all you need is simple keyframes and it will work quite alright.
maybe not the ultimate solution, but still...

jeric_synergy
08-01-2012, 02:52 PM
??? I thought that Lattice (deformer) was an animation tool, not (especially) a modeling tool.

You don't need a history stack with an animation too.

How does a Lattice Deformer differ from an equivalent cage of Joints?

erikals
08-01-2012, 03:12 PM
 
this one works with bones, not sure about displacements on affected object.
(displacements on deformer object works though, use "before local displacement")

animating it is the tricky part...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdzYCKT9An4

quite possible for NT to do this easily i would think...
if it gets priority.
 

jeric_synergy
08-01-2012, 03:20 PM
If a cage's vertices were associated with the endpoints of a bunch of Joints (via expressions), and the cage subsequently deformed, wouldn't the Joints' endpoints match the cage's deformations?

And then you could use the Joints to deform an object?

erikals
08-01-2012, 04:08 PM
 
i just did ;]
and i use IKB to deform it quickly, so it's basically just click and drag.
http://youtu.be/Fkfijp2eJ-A

to make bones for each vertex there is a faulknermano plugin or one can use powergons.

need to test it a bit more, and with endomorphs / displacements.
it's easier and faster to use Z-bones than joints though... (in this case)

more testing needed...


NT could definitely make this work... hope they do.

 

jeric_synergy
08-01-2012, 04:15 PM
??? That video appears to be just standard rigging-- I'm not seeing the Lattice aspect.

erikals
08-01-2012, 04:18 PM
 
ok, endomorphs work, one to go > displacements...

 

erikals
08-01-2012, 04:20 PM
??? That video appears to be just standard rigging-- I'm not seeing the Lattice aspect.

it's not, ;] the rabbit's left ear is a low-cage object driving the highres mesh beneath.

edit: ok, tested some more it works with a displacement map on the highres mesh too...

so, looks like Sensei is wrong. ;]

 

erikals
08-01-2012, 04:24 PM
 
sorry Mac people, only 32 bit PC...

 

jeric_synergy
08-01-2012, 04:30 PM
it's not, ;] the rabbit's left ear is a low-cage object driving the highres mesh beneath. 
Ya lost me: is this MetaLink?

erikals
08-01-2012, 04:33 PM
nope, just tested this one a bit more...

FI's Deform Follower
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdzYCKT9An4

metalink is not realtime, but this plugin is.

will post a test scene and new video later on...

Sensei
08-01-2012, 04:35 PM
Not working, but "working". Unreliable working.
Normal vector is calculated just ONCE per deformation stage per vertex.
If displacement needs to use normal vector to properly calculate its job, it won't get correct normal in node.. it will get original normal vector..
The only way is nodal (but not the way it's now) or history/modifier stack way of working.
Modifier is generating whole mesh from child meshes and parameters, and sending new mesh to parent nodes in hierarchy. With proper normal vectors.

You see difference: sending single vector to parent node (like current), and sending whole mesh to parent node.. ?

Currently displacement handler/node can't even check what vertexes connected to evaluated vertex (on edge) have real positions.

erikals
08-01-2012, 04:38 PM
well, this definitely works for CA.

Sensei
08-01-2012, 04:41 PM
well, this definitely works for CA.

Then apply also normal map from Z-Brush..

Then apply also some MDD..

Then apply also morphing..

All at once.

Sensei
08-01-2012, 04:54 PM
Mine "not working" doesn't mean crashing or something like that..

Not working means vertex is in wrong position than it should be.

jeric_synergy
08-01-2012, 04:59 PM
Not working means vertex is in wrong position than it should be.
Unpredictably, or something an artist could learn to compensate for?

erikals
08-01-2012, 05:03 PM
it works good with bones / morphs / displacements at once.

haven't tested MDD yet...

geo_n
08-02-2012, 01:08 PM
??? I thought that Lattice (deformer) was an animation tool, not (especially) a modeling tool.

You don't need a history stack with an animation too.

How does a Lattice Deformer differ from an equivalent cage of Joints?

Its both a modelling tool and animation tool depending on the needs.
In concept probably they're similar but a cage of bones has a difference in influence than a real lattice. With a mod stack its also possible to instance a lattice deformer unlike a cage of bones so Sensei could be pointing one of many limitations of with lw having no mod stack.

I was testing this plugin before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X173Dq9HF8
same concept as Lernies bone cage.

jeric_synergy
08-02-2012, 03:21 PM
In concept probably they're similar but a cage of bones has a difference in influence than a real lattice.
I think we should be very precise about the difference between a Bone cage and a (hypothetical TMK) Joint cage.

I'm not the guy to figure this out, but it seems that Joints are more natural candidates for Lattice deformation emulation, since they can never disconnect spatially the way a Bone can. If the Joint endpoints are defined as the vertices of any given cage mesh, then no matter how the cage was distorted the Joints would remain contiguous. You could do that by altering the Rest Length of Bones, but it'd be a whole 'nother layer of complexity.

MSherak
08-02-2012, 03:27 PM
http://www2d.biglobe.ne.jp/~asagi/Lattice/

http://fault0d.at.webry.info/201109/article_1.html

Don't translate..

-MSherak

jeric_synergy
08-02-2012, 04:28 PM
http://www2d.biglobe.ne.jp/~asagi/Lattice/

http://fault0d.at.webry.info/201109/article_1.html

Don't translate..

-MSherak
Yeah, I didn't understand either of those. 8/

Sensei
08-02-2012, 05:59 PM
Do not you understand Japanese?! ;)

Ushiro mawashi keage jodan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RowI01y-QZk) is probably mine the favorite kick.. ;)

But recently I am using tobi yoko geri kekomi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeRCCHJtp3Q) for KO-ing people..

ianr
08-03-2012, 07:06 AM
Lattice Lobby 4 Twelve!

Should be a voting thread

in LARGE fonts!

whaddathink

jeric_synergy
08-03-2012, 09:15 AM
Do not you understand Japanese?! ;)

Ushiro mawashi keage jodan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RowI01y-QZk) is probably mine the favorite kick.. ;)
.
LOL, that last sentence might as well have been Japanese too! :D

Yes, we Americans are very bad with languages.

Sensei
08-03-2012, 09:21 AM
Might? It's Japanese..

It means "kick in the head after full rotation with not bended knee, leg is moving in an arc".

MSherak
08-03-2012, 10:19 AM
Yeah, I didn't understand either of those. 8/

Here.... Lattice Tool...

www.neko.ne.jp/~asagi/P2P/Plugins/AS_Lattice_DemoP12.zip

-MSherak

hrgiger
08-03-2012, 10:50 AM
I've been wanting them to add a lattice tool for the longest time. Yes, I would like a lattice tool as a modeling tool (very useful) but I would also want it as a deformation tool for animation.

But then I also want a modifier stack...

Tobian
08-03-2012, 07:41 PM
They really need to have a modifier stack before the lattice deformer would be of much use, as you can't stack displacements, except nodally, but then that kind of kills the interactive element (and subddivision level and bones aren't accessible nodally) Ideally it would be nice if they'd built the stack before implementing bullet as it's going to be hugely problematic to integrate all these disparate features.

I'd love to see the tool, and yes, I am sure there's several obscure, hard to read japanese limited versions of a latice deformer which doesn't play nicely with displacement, morphs or bones, and LW could do one too but.... :)

As a modelling tool, sure it would be very useful too of course, probably more useful than a layout version as Modeler has no stack whatsoever, but then you don't have to worry about the order of things, when there is none to worry about :)

geo_n
08-05-2012, 02:38 AM
dpont could probably make this faster than NT. Look what dpont did with splinetransform in dpkit. One request from a lw user and dpont did it in a couple of days.