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RTSchramm
07-16-2012, 11:28 PM
It's been awhile now that LW 11 has been out and I have some extra cash to burn on some plugins, or maybe even Maya 2013, but I'd like to know if there are any rumors of what's next for LW. I'm hoping for soft bullet dynamics, better hair, and maybe a liquid solver.

I'm not going to hold on to this cash forever.

Rich

jeric_synergy
07-16-2012, 11:37 PM
I'd say send some of that cash to Denis, if you haven't yet.

After that, 3dCoat.

Dodgy
07-17-2012, 01:35 AM
Given hard Bullet is in already, I would guess soft Bullet dynamics would be next.

erikals
07-17-2012, 03:04 AM
 
not rumors, but NT said they'd be showing some new stuff at Siggy :]

(20 days left) 

littlewaves
07-17-2012, 04:07 AM
my guess is more consolidation of existing features. I'm not saying that would be a bad thing BTW. Just not sure I'd get my hopes up for stunning new additions to the tool set.

But really who knows?

I guess eventually they have to do SOMETHING with Modeller right?

Shnoze Shmon
07-17-2012, 12:52 PM
Lot's of love to modeler! Lots and lots of love.

littlewaves
07-17-2012, 01:00 PM
I'm hoping for soft bullet dynamics, better hair, and maybe a liquid solver.

I think you'll get two out of three there. Soft bullet probably quite likely? Improvements to FFX almost obligatory. Very much doubt we'll be seeing a liquid solver this time around though.

kopperdrake
07-17-2012, 01:11 PM
soft body in 11.5 and fluids in 12 for me please :thumbsup:

zapper1998
07-17-2012, 01:29 PM
All panels "RESIZABLE".... YES ... Please ...Please ...Please ...Please ...Please ...Please ...

cresshead
07-17-2012, 02:09 PM
weight painting in layout, poly model editing in layout, morph creation in layout...maybe an update to a new function in modeller?

erikals
07-17-2012, 02:35 PM
soft body in 11.5 and fluids in 12 for me please :thumbsup:

as far as i recall, bullet softbodies doesn't support self-collision...
so, well... :l

...try Marvelous Designer instead, supposed to be super... (!)

fluids, nothing out there is close to RF...
these days you can rent RF though, which is great...

 

Sensei
07-17-2012, 05:38 PM
I'd say send some of that cash to Denis, if you haven't yet.


Better send whole dual-core machine... he has single-core..

jeric_synergy
07-17-2012, 08:08 PM
Better send whole dual-core machine... he has single-core..
I can't believe NewTek hasn't flown Rob Powers to Denis' house in France to hand-deliver one.

Seriously. :devil: They really should.


(Plus a 64bit compiler.)

Sensei
07-17-2012, 08:53 PM
I described many times how to compile 64 bit code on any Windows machine..
e.g. in this thread
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=116661

jeric_synergy
07-17-2012, 10:19 PM
There's some caveats at the end of that thread. Accurate?

Anyway, for some reason Marvin seems to be the go-to guy on this.

Sensei
07-17-2012, 10:24 PM
If they're getting wrong (too new) version, what to expect? Instruction is supposed to work with that version of files that's mentioned in the thread.. How to hell can I know whether it'll work with X or Y? I would have to screw up mine current working setup just to check it. You can't install these resources multiple times on single machine disk..

jeric_synergy
07-17-2012, 11:42 PM
Well then, perhaps Denis' setup is one of those on which this method does not work.

Sensei
07-17-2012, 11:46 PM
I don't think so his machine is so special.. ;)
I was compiling 64 bit execs even on Athlon XP 2000..

Rather he won't compile on platform that he can't test..

jeric_synergy
07-18-2012, 11:50 AM
I'm just saying that NewTek should ease Denis' path as much as possible.

Waves of light
07-18-2012, 12:20 PM
Yep, Modeler is like the 40 year old virgin... in need of some loving.

Would like to see some of the selection ideas that were part of core come through to Modeler.

Ricky.

silviotoledo
07-18-2012, 07:43 PM
:agree:

Newtek must hire Mr. DPont, so a lot of power throught nodes will be added to Lightwave.

Let's start the campaign!

Every company shows news at Siggraph. Let's wait!
I think LW 11.5 must be comming. Hope it is!

Silkrooster
07-19-2012, 12:30 AM
:agree:

Newtek must hire Mr. DPont, so a lot of power throught nodes will be added to Lightwave.

Let's start the campaign!

Every company shows news at Siggraph. Let's wait!
I think LW 11.5 must be comming. Hope it is!

Thats between Denis and Newtek. But I certainly would be in favor and I am sure most others would be as well.

BeeVee
07-19-2012, 01:42 AM
Not sure Denis would be... ;)

B

littlewaves
07-19-2012, 04:28 AM
I think LW 11.5 must be comming. Hope it is!

I reckon it'll be LW12. They need your money!

And if it's good enough I might finally upgrade from 9.6

Sensei
07-19-2012, 04:31 AM
I reckon it'll be LW12. They need your money!

And if it's good enough I might finally upgrade from 9.6

If either 10 nor 11 didn't encourage you to get them, I don't know what could do it..

colkai
07-19-2012, 04:36 AM
Nope, we need Denis and others to remain outside of Newtek. History has shown all to clearly what happens to plugins which become "integrated" and it ain't pretty.

I'd rather have the uber-fast turn-around to problems and features that Denis and others provide vs what happened to Rounder.

Long may Denis, Sensei, Viktor and such remain outside of Newtek control.

Given how long Modeller has been "abandoned" development wise, if the 3rd party plugs were absorbed, who knows how long it would be before new and cool feature for modelling became available? How many years has it been now?

littlewaves
07-19-2012, 04:55 AM
If either 10 nor 11 didn't encourage you to get them, I don't know what could do it..

well it's simple really. Each of them had new and impressive features but like every financial decision I have to weigh up if I NEED those new features or if I can stand to wait for the next release and get more for my upgrade price.

I'm not saying I don't think 10 and 11 are worth it generally just possibly not worth it to me.

I can still do most things I NEED to do in LW9.6 but sure eventually as the new features add up it makes the upgrade more and more worth it.

Of course I have Newtek's very fair upgrade policy to thank for the fact that I'm not penalised unduly for skipping versions.

So really it might not take much for me to upgrade to LW12 when you consider there's already the combined additions of 10 and 11.

Lewis
07-19-2012, 07:03 AM
If either 10 nor 11 didn't encourage you to get them, I don't know what could do it..

somethign what 10 nor 11 had/have, hmmmmm a modeling update maybe :D?

Cageman
07-19-2012, 08:14 AM
Thats between Denis and Newtek. But I certainly would be in favor and I am sure most others would be as well.

To be totally honest... no... I wouldn't like that... Denis has a certain freedom in his ways of developing tools... If NT pick him up, Denis will most likely have to conform to a certain way of working etc.

I also think that Denis is a valuable asset for NewTek as it is, since he is abusing the SDK and as such, he tests that part of LW quite much.

So... no... I honestly think that both Denis and NewTek are exactly where they should be, and both parties are winning on it, but most of all; we as users picks the biggest slice of the cake.

I like that!

Sensei
07-19-2012, 08:27 PM
somethign what 10 nor 11 had/have, hmmmmm a modeling update maybe :D?

There are two modeling packs already... :p

We don't need unfair competition.. :D

Lewis
07-20-2012, 12:22 AM
There are two modeling packs already... :p

We don't need unfair competition.. :D

"packs" is little stretched, neither of our modeling "packs" is fully workable/fixed or to say full pack ;).

Shnoze Shmon
07-20-2012, 10:36 AM
"packs" is little stretched, neither of our modeling "packs" is fully workable/fixed or to say full pack ;).

Still, what we got with 10 has saved me tons of time.

If NewTek does for modeler in 12 what they did for layout in 11 I'll start begging for the pre-release now.

I'd like to see weld points expanded. For situations where you need to weld multiple sets of 2 or 3 points. An option to limit the distance points can be from each other to be welded. Then if you had 2 loops of 24 points each to weld instead of welding 2 points 24 times you could select them all, input a distance limiter, and do all 24 operations at once.

Oh yeah. And then there's rounder...

Lewis
07-20-2012, 10:43 AM
Still, what we got with 10 has saved me tons of time.

True but that is totally of the point i posted 'coz 10 didn't bring any measurable update to modeling so 10 couldn't save you on modeling time :) :). Layout yes, but for modeler nothing and believe it or not some of LWModelers (few who still left with LW after all those years of neglect) still use 9.x or even 7-8.x for modeling due fact they don't see any considerable/important modeling upgrade in 10/11 to shell out cash for new versions. For us who use layout also yes but for modelers mainly not really, sad but true :(.

jeric_synergy
07-20-2012, 10:44 AM
"packs" is little stretched, neither of our modeling "packs" is fully workable/fixed or to say full pack ;).
Since everyone is being so damnably coy, are we talking about:


Trueart's Modeling Pack (http://www.trueart.pl/?URIType=Directory&URI=Products/Plug-Ins/TrueArt%20Modeling%20Pack)


and

LWCad (http://www.wtools3d.com/)?

What do you feel is missing?

Lewis
07-20-2012, 11:02 AM
What do you feel is missing?

Are you serious ? you really want me to tell you what's the problem with this/modeler even with those plugins?

Well even if we disregard combined price of your proposal (which is BTW 600$ for those two so it's hard to disregard price tag) none of those will help you with SLOW and destructive modeling. None of that will help you to model with CatmullClark Subds properly/fast (when you hit TAB with 200K polys model you need to wait 15-20 sec to see results i.e. unworkable). None of that will help you snap on 1 million polys mesh interactively (it'll be slow and drag like snail). None of that will help you to work nondestructive with stack/parametric tools, none of that will give you animatable modeling operations, none will show you bump maps or displacement sin openGL or use GFX card for shaders, neither will give us ability to Sculpt with brushes or make nice and fast UVs, none will enable you to select edge sat UV window, etc. etc. i.e none of those can change the fact that modeler is damn old and slow dinosaur with tons of overlapping tools/plugins which don't communicate with each other and every tool has it's own set of falloffs and some even work on different ways :).

Really i though we are pass over this debate what's wrong with modeler long ago ? I've reported and explained tons of problems with modeling in LW long ago and it's up to NT will they solve that or not, not up to 3rd party to fix holes/gaps/bugs within LWM. None of plugins can speedup LWM feedback/interaction with hi-poly stuff or subDs, that's something NT has to fix internally and that's problem at least 10 years by now.

So let's wait little more to see do they understand that or we will again get quick fix without deeper though and integration or buyout of few plugins that get forgotten after buyout (like rounder).

Cageman
07-20-2012, 12:11 PM
I don't think for a second that people aren't aware of the state of Modeler as it is... I rather would want to think of the proposals and hints towards what plugins to purchase is to make LW a better experience now. This certanly do not fix the underlaying bugs or limitations which NT has to adress at some point (and I know they will).

We shouldn't forget that there are a lot of people using other much more developed modelingpackages, and despite their much more advanced state, still lacks some of the tools that are avaliable in Modeler. The two most prominent ones that I can think about are of course LWCad, but also Rope Editor. Fantastic tools and I understand why Modeler is "attractive" to use, even if you only use it when you need those tools.

:)

Lewis
07-20-2012, 12:40 PM
, but also Rope Editor. Fantastic tools and I understand why Modeler is "attractive" to use, even if you only use it when you need those tools.

:)

That's cool and dandy (and i agree with most of it) but consider how many people need RopeEditor(s) comparing to Fast interactive OpenGL editing ? Or Knife tool that work in perspective window, or Gizmos, or ability to model all the time in perspective window etc. etc.. Really percentage rope editor vs that is massive difference :).

LWCAD is great tool and i like it a lot but for instance it doesn't give me anything desirable (what's not already covered with some other free plugin) need in modeling cars/SubDs. For Arch-Viz it's indispensable but then not all work there and not all want to shell-out 300$ and then realize that LWcad can't work fast on heavy arch-viz mesh (I'm having 1.8 Mill polys currently in modeler) regardless of 300$ price tag :). Also the fact that I'd have more workflow boost (in Arch-Viz projects) from ability to model in camera view than All other plugins together and yet we can't :).

Core of modeler is old/broken (in some long standing bugs) and until that is fixed any none plugin can help us to work efficiently on hi-poly stuff :(. I'm having 8-10 sec between each "magnet" LMB move dragging some points on my mesh in effort to try to do basic Sculpt in LWM :(.

jeric_synergy
07-20-2012, 12:44 PM
Does Hiding improve Modeler performance at all?

Lewis
07-20-2012, 12:54 PM
Does Hiding improve Modeler performance at all?

Very very little, that's one of things/problems that modeler don't work only with polys/points/edges visible in zoom/view but calculates them all anyway :(. Also it works even slower when you have BG layer on (which is needed sometime for snapping (with LWCAD or any other like SP move). Also LScript plugins are toons slower and mostly non interactive so if is me I'd "ban" them for anything other than importing/exporting stuff and really non core/important stuff or some simple tools that need too much or none interaction whit mouse :)

jeric_synergy
07-20-2012, 01:10 PM
Dude, you seem angry enough that you must be using Modo as a better alternative.

(And it is shameful how many years Modeler has been neglected.)
(My question was what were the modeling packs missing, as modeling packs. I know LWM's intrinsic shortcomings.)

Lewis
07-20-2012, 01:18 PM
Dude, you seem angry enough that you must be using Modo as a better alternative.

Nope not angry, just correcting (with facts) some misinterpretations that some still thing that buyign plugin can solve most/all LWM problems :).

And no I'm not using modo (i used demo of 501 for few days, then some urgent project come in and when i got back to free time demo expired already so i didn't have time for new testdrive :)). I'm using 3DSMAX for some problems/shortcomings i can't solve in LWM.

cresshead
07-20-2012, 03:28 PM
Lewis, modeler is a dead horse development wise...it passed on years ago...Newtek isn't interested in modelling updates, that's been clear since lightwave 8

Lewis
07-20-2012, 03:32 PM
Lewis, modeler is a dead horse development wise...it passed on years ago...Newtek isn't interested in modelling updates, that's been clear since lightwave 8

They "claim" otherwise so I'm still waiting to see that renewal of modeling not just modeler but modeling in general i.e. unification ;). Let's wait and see what they plan for Siggraph or end of year or so.

silviotoledo
07-20-2012, 04:30 PM
back to speculate...

So will it be LW 11.5 or Lw 12.0 ?

WICH FEATURES?

bobakabob
07-20-2012, 04:39 PM
They "claim" otherwise so I'm still waiting to see that renewal of modeling not just modeler but modeling in general i.e. unification ;). Let's wait and see what they plan for Siggraph or end of year or so.

Agree with all your comments Lewis. I really hope the dev team are addressing Modeler's issues especially memory / speed / subdivisions.

Cageman
07-20-2012, 05:34 PM
They "claim" otherwise so I'm still waiting to see that renewal of modeling not just modeler but modeling in general i.e. unification ;). Let's wait and see what they plan for Siggraph or end of year or so.

Well... both you and me know that the devs are capable of speeding things up, as was shown with CORE. So, the "claim" isn't really a claim... it has, sort of, allready been proven. CORE was a good proof of concept regarding modeling speedup and how it could handle large ammounts of polygons without slowing down much. Give the devs some time to figure out how to get that type of speed into LW...

Interactivity is just one part of the problem, as you say... being able to model in cameraview is important... but not as important as adjusting a model in cameraview, and that sort of stuff could be implemented in LW today.

The notion that modeling artists are working from the cameraview is quite out there to be honest. 95% of highres models today are done in ZBrush and similar applications, and you can not simply sculpt those things based on where the camera is. Adjusting models from cameraview is a completely different thing, and that is really what is needed in LW today. And, we all know how customers change their mind, so there is really no point in "modeling from camera angle" today... it is better to spend some extra time doing a proper model that works from all angles (especially characters, cars etc) and adjust them for each shot.

cresshead
07-20-2012, 05:57 PM
back to speculate...

So will it be LW 11.5 or Lw 12.0 ?

WICH FEATURES?

i'll punt for lightwave 12.0 as that will bring in new revenue whereas 11.5 is a freeby for those who stumped up for 11.0

Lewis
07-20-2012, 06:12 PM
The notion that modeling artists are working from the cameraview is quite out there to be honest. 95% of highres models today are done in ZBrush and similar applications, and you can not simply sculpt those things based on where the camera is.

Maybe in your bussines but in my not at all, Zbrush don't do anything to do here in Hi-res car models/business for Broadcast/movies/games (LODs). especially in ultra-hi res stuff where all is subDs and has to have clean Geometry (no pinches/bumps/dents in CC subDs). you are doing different things than me so you aren't looking things from same perspective so that's why you might not understand this need.

As for camera in modeling i'd have to show you how you can map points on 3-4 different photos in 3DSMAX so you model from LOCKED camera view/position (with live tracking points like for animation/camera tracking in compositing packages) and you get perfect model in all views so client can change it's mid all day long but model i still 99.9% perfect (in my case used mostly for Car headlight/taillight inside lenses which can't be scanned within inside without breaking them and car dealers aren't keen on allowing that when you rent car for 2-3 days ;)). I'ts completely different story than just regular camera view while modeling. I was in WOW for days when i got touted how to use this option in MAX:).

As for Devs being able to do fast interactive tools that is not in question - I'm sure they can make it, we've sen some fast and nice in CORE, thing is how to do it in this current old code and not break stuff for backwards compatibility. IMHO I don't think it's possible (not just tools but stack/history/parametric/nodal modeling) and yet if they break it (which I'm all for it but it has to be done properly and integrated without tons of plugins like now for basic stuff = native integrated tools centralized) then they could do it in CORE too and it would probably be faster route then by now, coz if you look at this it's now being a 2 years since that decision so it's not "overnight" anymore and unification is not visible on the horizon so far so maybe it's still far far away :).

But like i said let's hope they have something serious for siggraph to show us :).

jwiede
07-20-2012, 06:44 PM
Does Hiding improve Modeler performance at all?
Sure, if you're hiding with a laptop containing Mo...err...never mind. :devil:

Sensei
07-20-2012, 08:47 PM
Or Knife tool that work in perspective window, (...) or ability to model all the time in perspective window etc. etc..

But that's what TrueArt's Modeling Pack is doing..
Knife in perspective viewport = EasySplit.
Modeling all the time in perspective viewport = EasyMesh + EasySplit + SwiftEdgeLoop + EasySpline's Spline Point..


Also the fact that I'd have more workflow boost (in Arch-Viz projects) from ability to model in camera view than All other plugins together and yet we can't :).

I don't understand this- modeling in perspective viewport is rather for somebody who is doing character/organic stuff.. Archiviz needs precision.



Core of modeler is old/broken (in some long standing bugs) and until that is fixed any none plugin can help us to work efficiently on hi-poly stuff :(. I'm having 8-10 sec between each "magnet" LMB move dragging some points on my mesh in effort to try to do basic Sculpt in LWM :(.

Magnet tool is probably doing sqrt(x*x+y*y+z*z) between clicked location and the all points in mesh. That's the quickest implementation for programmer to write. And sqrt() is one of the slowest math instruction.

To make magnet fast tool (as fast as moving points in range using Move Tool), there is needed rewrite which will put points in kd-tree/octree or other way instantly reduce number of points which are obviously outside of defined range.. And only those that will be really moved will be processed.
It can be fast tool really, there is just needed enough demand.. ;)

I tried it with 10,000 points and it was instant working.. hmmm..

Sensei
07-20-2012, 08:53 PM
Lewis, modeler is a dead horse development wise...it passed on years ago...Newtek isn't interested in modelling updates, that's been clear since lightwave 8

Modeling stuff is hard to sell to customers. There is no nice renders, nice videos showing how real-time interactive renderer or instances work.

Speed is something nobody see until paying and working.

Sensei
07-20-2012, 09:08 PM
I was in WOW for days when i got touted how to use this option in MAX:).

Then make video with simple example stuff and put on youtube..

Silkrooster
07-21-2012, 12:57 AM
To be totally honest... no... I wouldn't like that... Denis has a certain freedom in his ways of developing tools... If NT pick him up, Denis will most likely have to conform to a certain way of working etc.

I also think that Denis is a valuable asset for NewTek as it is, since he is abusing the SDK and as such, he tests that part of LW quite much.

So... no... I honestly think that both Denis and NewTek are exactly where they should be, and both parties are winning on it, but most of all; we as users picks the biggest slice of the cake.

I like that!
You have a good point. I wasn't thinking so much about the plugins but the extra man power Newtek would have for coding.

Lewis
07-21-2012, 03:29 AM
Then make video with simple example stuff and put on youtube..

Why should i put it on youtube ? Your clients allow you to put copyrighted/NDA materials on youtube ? Mine don't, sorry (and no, i don't have time for pointless videos with no feedback (not as "we know" but as included stuff in new versions/updates)) from NT. I've done that in past several times and made 2GB of videos for CORE and ideas/feature requests/bugs etc. etc. and we all know how that ended and how much of those modeling tools/principles live now in LW 10 or 11.

Sensei - stop arguing at my posts, I've showed and reported tons of stuff to NT / Bugbot/ Fogbugz and DEV directly over the years and years and they know what's broken/wrong to modeling in LW. As they say in USA "ball is in their court now" :).

BTW and NO, 10 000 points it's not HI-poly mesh or any kind of benchmark. Let me know when it starts working fast on 1 Million or more like when you get CAD data model for optimizing and it has 9 000 000 polys and you need to drag/select/move points or use it as background constrain to model on it (like re-topology certain parts and modeler drags like snail with ANY command you throw on it so you need to cutout mesh into small dozen of chunks to be able to work on it and later merge/weld parts. It has to work on millions and millions fast - that would be good benchmark, X0 000 and X00 000 are past and not considered as hi-poly nowdays :). Times of 64k polys limit per object are thing of 90's ;).

Lewis
07-21-2012, 03:44 AM
But that's what TrueArt's Modeling Pack is doing..
Knife in perspective viewport = EasySplit.
Modeling all the time in perspective viewport = EasyMesh + EasySplit + SwiftEdgeLoop + EasySpline's Spline Point..


Can you move/rotate/scale individual polys/meshes perspective view along point or poly normal with those tools i.e. having Local action center/constrain (like in layout) to multiple selected polys/meshes ?

silviotoledo
07-21-2012, 04:58 AM
Lightwave modeler needs improvements and support for heavy geometry, but I guess it's not the priority actually.

TureArt and LWCad did a great job at the modeler area, except optimization/speed, that must be done by Newtek.

Here my small list of fature requests to Modeler and a suggestion to 3rd part developers:

1) handles ( size, move, rotate ) and that midle point at the center of polys Blender has. This turns more efficient to modelate in perspective view. Hability to turn on and of these.

2) IVY Generator - with edge generation option instead of polys. This will require a shader like hypervoxels to prevent use of too much polys.

and here what I will need and will be able to pay for soon. Hope this will come on LW 12:

1) Bullet Softbodies and Cloth
2) Mocap retarget
3) layer animation
4) Nodal skin deform throught weightmaps and influence objects

djwaterman
07-21-2012, 05:29 AM
And something akin to the interactive split tool in Maya. You shouldn't have to use three different tools to make specific divisions to your mesh.

BTW, the add edges tool in LW...is there a way to have all the blue dots only appear on the camera side of the geometry? It would make it much easier to use.

Sensei
07-21-2012, 05:45 AM
And something akin to the interactive split tool in Maya. You shouldn't have to use three different tools to make specific divisions to your mesh.

BTW, the add edges tool in LW...is there a way to have all the blue dots only appear on the camera side of the geometry? It would make it much easier to use.

http://easysplit.trueart.pl

djwaterman
07-22-2012, 11:26 PM
Not the same unfortunately.

erikals
07-23-2012, 01:36 AM
btw, the add edges tool in lw...is there a way to have all the blue dots only appear on the camera side of the geometry? It would make it much easier to use.

+5

silviotoledo
07-23-2012, 06:43 AM
The cool news is that we will have Lightwave update during Siggraph :).

Not sure about what will be comming, but can't wait to see the new additions! Finger crosseds!

Really enjoy Lightwave updates since 9.5!

littlewaves
07-23-2012, 06:51 AM
The cool news is that we will have Lightwave update during Siggraph :).

if you mean we'll have an update regarding LW during Siggraph then I'm sure you're correct.

If however you think LW will itself be updated during Siggraph then i'm less optimistic.

I'm expecting the usual "available Q4" epilogue to any announcement.

Maybe they'll surprise us though

silviotoledo
07-23-2012, 06:54 AM
:D Damn. Just forgot about that Q4 thing!

Sensei
07-23-2012, 07:11 AM
Wasn't v11.0.2 just released? What can be done in 1 month?

erikals
07-23-2012, 07:13 AM
they're working simultaneously on another upgrade,
when that will be released however, no idea.

just a week now...

littlewaves
07-23-2012, 07:44 AM
Wasn't v11.0.2 just released? What can be done in 1 month?

a press release starting with "Lightwave 12" and ending with "available Q4".

That's what.
:D

erikals
07-23-2012, 07:53 AM
they said they wouldn't show LW12 at Siggy,
but i guess that doesn't mean they couldn't show parts of it...

we'll see, they did say they'll show some new stuff though...

littlewaves
07-23-2012, 08:06 AM
they said they wouldn't show LW12 at Siggy,
but i guess that doesn't mean they couldn't show parts of it...

we'll see, they did say they'll show some new stuff though...

oh well in that case...

a press release starting with "Lightwave 11.5" and ending with "available Q4"

( I figure that if I cover enough eventualities then at some point one of my un-informed predictions will come true)

erikals
07-23-2012, 08:23 AM
11.2 ?

\:]

Niel
07-24-2012, 12:13 AM
[QUOTE=Lewis;1257200]...And no I'm not using modo ...QUOTE]

also: the spline modeling tools in modo are not on par with LW's.

prometheus
07-25-2012, 02:37 AM
[QUOTE=Lewis;1257200]...And no I'm not using modo ...QUOTE]

also: the spline modeling tools in modo are not on par with LW's.

Yes...those are not so good in modo.


Michael

lino.grandi
07-25-2012, 04:15 AM
as far as i recall, bullet softbodies doesn't support self-collision...
so, well... :l
 

Bullet SoftBodies supports self-collision, afaik.

littlewaves
07-25-2012, 04:22 AM
Bullet SoftBodies supports self-collision, afaik.

ah but how well? (not very afaik)

erikals
07-25-2012, 05:48 AM
   
can't say, but according to this post it looks like it can be problematic?
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?p=1255940#post1255940

   

lardbros
07-25-2012, 06:04 AM
I'd love tonnes of stuff... but realistically... giving me a fracture tool like we have, that works on ANYTHING! Would be amazing. The free plugin for 3ds max seems to cope with anything you throw at it (aside from shelled objects... which is VERY impressive with the LW one... even RayFire couldn't do this in the last version I tried.)

I want Fracture to cope with objects that don't have a uniform distribution of polygons, and still do a lovely job.

kopperdrake
07-25-2012, 08:23 AM
That would be nice - on a current job I struggled to get something workable from fracture and ended up building my own bits to blow up.

Shnoze Shmon
07-25-2012, 09:21 AM
True but that is totally of the point i posted 'coz 10 didn't bring any measurable update to modeling so 10 couldn't save you on modeling time

EXCUSE ME! Lewis (Mr I haven't touched LW 10 so I wouldn't know.)

But there were improvements on modeler in 10, and though few they were significant, AND they have saved me tons of time working in modeler.

It's not smart or nice to tell someone their own experiences never happened. Especially when you have no comparable experiences of your own.

Lewis
07-25-2012, 10:20 AM
EXCUSE ME! Lewis (Mr I haven't touched LW 10 so I wouldn't know.)

But there were improvements on modeler in 10, and though few they were significant, AND they have saved me tons of time working in modeler.

It's not smart or nice to tell someone their own experiences never happened. Especially when you have no comparable experiences of your own.

Can you name which modeler features were so significant? Thanks.

Also where did you get idea I've not used/using modeler 10.x so i have no experience to compare it?

Nicolas Jordan
07-25-2012, 10:44 AM
I would like to see some serious improvements to modeler along with all the stuff we have been regularly getting in Layout. I still use modeler only to host lwcad. I have been using modo for organic modeling tasks for a couple years now and in my opinion it has very elegant modeling tools in comparison to modeler which is still adequate but is feeling very dated in many ways. I'm guessing we won't any significant improvements to modeler in the next Lightwave update and the way things are going maybe never. I think the past is often the best way to predict the future.

jeric_synergy
07-25-2012, 11:07 AM
If LWM doesn't receive a significan facelift, I'm pretty sure plenty of LW user will be .... reinforcing their modeling via other applications, whatever they may be, with MODO leading the pack.

Just a prediction, worth every dime I got paid for it.

Oedo 808
07-25-2012, 08:30 PM
Can you name which modeler features were so significant? Thanks.

Would be quite interested to find these out, they seemed to have passed me by. Perhaps I already had plug-ins that covered such functionality.

I was thinking that Modeler might need a bit of promoting at Siggy, I came up with this slogan:

NewTek's LightWave Modeler, as good as it's always been.

erikals
07-25-2012, 09:34 PM
LW10 EdgePack > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhWjLStDypo

Lewis
07-26-2012, 01:00 AM
LW10 EdgePack > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhWjLStDypo

That was free plugin from James Willmot long long before LW10 so I guess when he started to work for NT he included them in LWM.

So no, that's not somethign 10 has over 9.x 'coz i use(d) it much earlier :)

littlewaves
07-26-2012, 04:53 AM
11.2 ?

\:]

maybe.

jwiede
07-26-2012, 05:38 AM
I too would be really interested to hear of the significant Modeler improvements LW10 brought? The only thing I can think of is EdgePack, and it had been freely available well prior to LW10. In fact, since CORE had drawn in many of us looking for modeling improvements, it was the explicit lack of Modeler improvements in LW10 that caused much of the upset at the time.

Nicolas Jordan
07-26-2012, 06:47 AM
I was thinking that Modeler might need a bit of promoting at Siggy, I came up with this slogan:

NewTek's LightWave Modeler, as good as it's always been.

Yep, it's so good it just needs to be maintained as it is. :D

Tobian
07-26-2012, 09:12 AM
Edge pack is superb, and I have been using it for nearly as long as it's been made (James, you rock!) and I now have no idea where it is on the LW menu, because I have been using it in my own custom menu for so long, but yeah the modeler tweaks are just tweaks...

Edge pack still suffers from the same problem as the rest of modeler: if you have a huge model loaded (well in Modeler terms) using it can be incredibly slow, select an edge loop. disolve loop - go do your knitting, read war and piece, yatch round the world, and oh look it's all done :) I often revert to using bandglue, even though it can only do one at a time, as it's just about bearable...

Actually in 10 and 11 there have been a number of modeller improvements, not all of which were welcome...

Hitting the delete key while an edge(s) is selected deletes the edges - sweet!
Using the arrow keys is backwards, and now needs to have the shift key pressed down - BUGGER (I changed the former round)
right arrow loop select - sweet (shame it takes away from viewport navigation though)
Aligner tool - remembers previous settings and is improved - sweet!
There's also of course all the other shared stuff, like the CS, nodes and image handling, which is a mixed blessing, as I prefer to work without CS in modeler and with CS in Layout.. so meh :) BUT that is not to take away from all the hard work that the staff have put in, it's just not modeling tools improvements.

That's all I can think of, other than create rows which I have never used.
I don't want to use the plane alignment tools because LW rotations don't have enough decimal places: they aren't accurate enough for me to trust them. Accuracy and alignment in LW are big problems for me but you have to have encountered it to understand why.

I'd be very happy with modeler improvements which were evolutionary over revolutionary, if it simply added in some 'basics' which really are needed, like edge sliding and fixing rounder, and a bit of tool clean up, just so it was a bit more feature complete. I understand it would be heinous to add in stuff like workplanes without major changes behind the scenes, and handling huge numbers of polygons requires huge architectural changes, which are compounded by the whole core/merging apps issue, but throw us a bone please NT! :)

I really like modeler, I really do, I use it all the time, and I only occasionally look over the fence, so mostly my opinions of Modeler are not simply a grab-bag of whatever modo or mudbox or whatever did this week, but just the basics of cleaning up the interface, unifying the tools, and bringing the speed of the app's interface up when using millions of polys (or even hundreds of thousands) to comfortable levels, then I would probably be happy. I feel Lewis' pain, it's a pain I share :)

jeric_synergy
07-26-2012, 10:17 AM
What I keep reading is that PERFORMANCE, versus features, is the main item on the wish list.

wesleycorgi
07-26-2012, 10:59 AM
The other day, when LW crashed on my laptop and I forgot my USB key at home on my nightstand, I was cursing NT for the bloody dongle. (Note: I always unplug my dongle from my laptop shortly after LW launches, because I've snapped off the dongle before on my laptop).

I was in the middle of doing a lot of pre-vis with colleagues when the crash happened. It was embarrassing that I had to drive 30 minutes home and then 30 minutes back during crunch time to get a project finished.

And this scenario plays itself out about once every two months: take work home, forget dongle, speedrace to get dongle back (as my Modo license mocks me).

So that would be nice to nix the dongle in LW 12. I would love to have to stop carrying around my "keychain" of Fusion, LW, and Messiah USB dongles.

prometheus
07-26-2012, 11:03 AM
To dongle or not dongle, that is the question:)

I think I rather see it go too, feels more comfortable in my pants and in my head not having to worry.

Michael

Sensei
07-26-2012, 11:07 AM
If somebody is forgetting such obvious thing as dongle, he will most likely forget USB memory stick with software license key.. They look the same.

colkai
07-26-2012, 11:22 AM
Then again, some of us have been known to actually bring our dongle but totally forget where we put it. Ahem, senior moment dontcha know! ;) :foreheads

dickbill
07-26-2012, 11:22 AM
The issue of speed is important too. I tried to model a realistic head using the point approach, starting from the eyes. After 10 minutes I was still in the eyes while zbrush or sculptris could do it in 20 seconds. But that's just because I wanted the realistic look, for simple characters and textures for cartoons, LW Modeler is plenty good and might actually make more sense than, say, zbrush, because of the clean topology that basically comes from using LW Modeler.

What about the other packages? Are the modelers in Maya, C4d or 3DMax so far ahead, or do you have to get something like zbrush anyway when you want to model complex shapes or textures?

Kuzey
07-26-2012, 11:59 AM
Hey...where did my post go?

Mmmm...I guess I must have imagined it or something :D

Kuzey

prometheus
07-26-2012, 12:11 PM
if somebody is forgetting such obvious thing as dongle, he will most likely forget usb memory stick with software license key.. They look the same.

:)

lardbros
07-26-2012, 02:00 PM
Well, remember Core... the plan was to remove the dongle, so lets hope, when they do... it'll be similar to Modo... or 3dCoat. I like relaxed licensing... it's always going to get cracked by someone, so why make it more difficult for us genuine purchasers?

Speed improvements would be very welcome, over more modeller features... but not sure they'll bother wasting their time, especially if Modeller isn't going to be around for the future? Anyone's guess though.

Waves of light
07-27-2012, 02:31 AM
Ok, so I woke up this morning to find an email with a link to a 'sneak peak' new features in LW. It would also appear that that post has been removed, so I'm not going to risk anything... I'll just say WOW and look forward to the announcments at Siggraph.

prometheus
07-27-2012, 03:37 AM
Ok, so I woke up this morning to find an email with a link to a 'sneak peak' new features in LW. It would also appear that that post has been removed, so I'm not going to risk anything... I'll just say WOW and look forward to the announcments at Siggraph.

Im not sure that could have been official, I havenīt seen any sneak peak link mail directly from Newtek anyway.

Have to wait, and in the meantime ..do your work.

Michael

Waves of light
07-27-2012, 04:40 AM
Im not sure that could have been official, I havenīt seen any sneak peak link mail directly from Newtek anyway.

Have to wait, and in the meantime ..do your work.

Michael

Yep, back to work and forget about some of the goodies I saw. It's going to be a long weekend now Micheal!