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Taro Yoshimoto
06-25-2012, 05:12 AM
Hi, I've got a little ninja character to animate in a cartoony way but I'm a real *** for character animation. Any keyframing I do turn to artefacts party after a while. Shoulders jerking, elbows everywhere... a nightmare.

I've read that IKboost was a good tool to save full poses of a character but that it is broken in the last lightwave versions.

What could I use? I'm a motion designer and can do miracle in After Effects but LW ca is like dark arcane for me.

Any third party software that could help me?

thanks

SplineGod
06-25-2012, 05:22 AM
IKBoost works fine. Im using it in LW11 with no issues. Heres some videos that you might find useful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf9zIdMC2MU&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFQzmXJVT_s&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KjsV3Cb8YQ&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3EJ8Wpa888&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pHqyB-nBEs&feature=plcp

RebelHill
06-25-2012, 05:28 AM
Gah, no, not the IKboost... its AWFUL! Seriously.

Sounds to me like what you've got is just a bad rig that's making things difficult to control... so a better rig is probably the first part of the answer.

However, if as you say CA is unknown to you... then it could well just be that. Takes a bit of time and practice to get right, learn all the pitfalls and how to avoid them. Nothing you can do there but put some time in Im afraid.

SplineGod
06-25-2012, 05:56 AM
Sorry, but Im going to disagree about IKB. It may not be useful for some people but that logic works the same for pretty much any type of rig.
Give things a try and see what works for you. Also make sure that youre using tools properly which is key. :)

RebelHill
06-25-2012, 06:06 AM
I know you're going to disagree, mate... but again Im afriad you're in a VERY small minority. IKB has NEVER taken off with anyone seriously, and just about anyone who has been serious about character work in LW has tried and rejected it... this idea that they "didnt know how to use it properly" is just plain nonsense.

IKB is GREAT for those who need to be able to spit out not very good animation fast, cos it does let you just slap any ol garbage together and it more or less moves... but its a FAR cry from a decent usable system...

Again... can you provide ANY examples of decent, quality work done using IKB... cos Ive asked you this many times before, and each and every time, you refuse to answer... yet keep asserting how great IKB is, without anything to back that claim up.

As a simple keyframe/dopetrack system, sure its great, very managable, etc... But as a rigging and CA system, it sucks beyond belief. Prove me wrong.

SplineGod
06-25-2012, 06:10 AM
Lets just agree to disagree then. :)

RebelHill
06-25-2012, 06:21 AM
Yeah, sure thing, lol.

Look, mate. Im not trying to have a go at you here, really Im not... BUT, I can only assume that your response, like those in previous time equates to...

"Can you show an example of something good done in IKB?"
"No."

Which speaks VOLUMES to me about IKBs efficacy.

Larry, please, dont take this personal in any way... its IKB I have the issue with, cos its garbage, and most of all... the fact that users who don't know one way or the other will waste god only knows how long trying and failing, only to be finally driven to taking a wholly different approach that doesnt involve IKB.

I know you love it, I know you do. But that simply isnt enough, and it doesnt make it good, and Im sorry, really I am... but unless you can actually DEMONSTRATE that the things you keep asserting are true, then Im gonna have to cry foul.

Ryan Roye
06-25-2012, 06:27 AM
I know you love it, I know you do. But that simply isnt enough, and it doesnt make it good, and Im sorry, really I am... but unless you can actually DEMONSTRATE that the things you keep asserting are true, then Im gonna have to cry foul.

To each their own. Keep in mind that not everyone brings a chainsaw to cut their steak at dinner.

IKB's fundemental advantage is to reduce the number of user commands required to achieve a single action... it isn't that difficult to figure out why IKB is a production tool. the less commands you have to do, the more that can be done in a shorter amount of time. It is that simple.

As far as quality animation goes... I believe it has far more to do with the user's skill than the tools they use (or the needs of the production in question).

Taro Yoshimoto
06-25-2012, 06:32 AM
Oh... heu... ok! Well, I've tried the normal LW rig and also bought Maestro and some other auto-rig in the past. It did the job but barely because, well I expect too much with too few effort I guess.

I'll check IKboost. Glad to ear it work in lw11. I'll make a quick test just to see how it goes. You cannot use skelegons with IKboost?

If that doesnt work, I'll try making a new rig the usual way.

thanks for your replies.

one precision; there's no walk cycle to do. just jumping and rolling around in a cartoony way. The final product must look 2D.

RebelHill
06-25-2012, 06:35 AM
Its not really each to their own... its like me having a pen in my hand, claiming it writes with blue ink... yet for some reason Im unable to just scribble something to prove that fact.

As for IKB, sure... it does do that... but that alone isnt enough. Fewer comands in a worse system doesnt make it better. Taking a crappy car that always breaks down, and removing the steering wheel and gearstick doesnt make it a better car to drive.

Ikb's fundamental PROBLEM however... is an issue. Namely that it doesnt contain ANY actual IK, everything has to be baked to FK keyframes, which then creates MORE work (not less) when you're trying to change things. It also means that blocking is less efficient, as you either have to view things with slidy IK during the first animation stages (distracting) or you have to do the whole bake thing).

There's been a couple guys who've setup regular LW rigs, IK, constraints, whatever... and simply used IKB to animate the controllers... GREAT! In that respect IKB is fine, its dopesheet/pose system/etc... all great.

But the actual character control, the "rigging" part of it... is dire beyond belief.

Ryan Roye
06-25-2012, 06:39 AM
Ikb's fundamental PROBLEM however... is an issue. Namely that it doesnt contain ANY actual IK, everything has to be baked to FK keyframes, which then creates MORE work (not less) when you're trying to change things.

This is false (concerning baking). You do not need to bake to use IK with IKB. IK/FK with a simple IK trigger script works just fine.

RebelHill
06-25-2012, 06:53 AM
Well that's interesting, then.

Can I see, can you elaborate? Where is this trigger thing, etc?

Ryan Roye
06-25-2012, 07:46 AM
The script I created uses the currently selected object and looks for the following bone/null names in the heiarchy:

"Arm_Upper_Left"
"Arm_Lower_Left"
"Arm_Upper_Right"
"Arm_Lower_Right"
"Arm_IK_Left"
"Arm_IK_Right"

It then toggles IK on or off (including any related targets, etc) depending on whether IK is on or off in the first place. I have the script hotkeyed so I can use it quickly as needed. Given that Lightwave lacks this function in the first place (only god knows why), the script is handy even if you aren't using IKBooster.

The cool thing about this is that the computer isn't wasting computation cycles every time you move the timeline around when you are not using upper body IK. I have a very slow computer, and snappiness is extremely important to me.

RebelHill
06-25-2012, 08:14 AM
Ok... so basically you're describing a system whereby you're using LWs regular IK in combination with IKB... and your switch simply turns off the LWIK, leaving you with FK, which you then control in IKB.

Great... but again... using LWs IK/rigging in combination with IKB does NOT mean that IKB itself has proper IK and doesnt require baking... that only applies IF you use LWs IK.

So as I said, as a keyframe/track system... yes IKB is fine, you can use it to simply control the null items of a regular LW rig... but still, as a character system itself... used vanilla... its awful. So you're still left in the position where, to get a proper, functional, predictable rig... you need the regular rigging tools, IKB cant cut it.

Again, it all comes down to SHOWING what can be done, and to date there is not ONE example of any quality work done using plain ol IKB... its ALL garbage.

With one exception... Scazzino's short... http://theautitonarchives.com/video/

That's the BEST Ive ever seen IKB produce, and even then, its not especially complex aniamtion by any standard, just a few walk cycles and heads bobbling about... very simple. You can also look up on SQ the threads of his rigging process with IKB... took him AGES to get the thing into the state where he was able to make this short.

So yes... obv, IKB can do some nice stuff (if VERY basic)... but i sure as hell can't see any time or efficiency saving that's been gained through it. And other than Scazzino and his DOGGED perseverance to beat IKB into submission... Ive still yet to see anything decent done in it by any regular animation user.

Ryan Roye
06-25-2012, 09:36 AM
So as I said, as a keyframe/track system... yes IKB is fine, you can use it to simply control the null items of a regular LW rig... but still, as a character system itself... used vanilla... its awful.

Saying that is like saying that an automobile should run without fuel, or that Lightwave should run entirely without plugins.

IKB is a supplemental tool to enhance production, it was never designed to be used as a replacement for regular IK... hence the term "Boost".

The single biggest problem with IKB is its poor documentation and few available resources for learning how to use it properly (SplineGod's content is definitely a good jumpstart though). This is why very few animations that use it are out there. This is why people run into problems and think they are bugs when they really aren't (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?p=1250780#post1250780)(the "lock global axis" function is a perfect example of this).

What you describe is a very valid point of view, but for a production-centric work environment being able to pull off 45-60 seconds of decent hand-keyed full body animation a day is a pretty powerful advantage over slower but more accurate methods of animation. It may not be pixar-level like your idealized workflow demands, but the bang for the buck is there.

RebelHill
06-25-2012, 10:31 AM
Well I don't think it is the same as saying this should run without that.

If you'll search back as far as you like... you'll find Ive NEVER once said that IKB had no advantages... I often spoken well of its use as a keyframe system/dopesheet/etc... but as a CHARACTER RIGGING system... its no good, none at all, too many problems with no solutions (other than going back to regular rigging keyed by the IKB animation system).

And I agree COMPLETELY when you say it was never meant to be a replacement for the IK or rigging systems in LW... that is EXACTLY what I have been saying for years... or rather, the fact that is no good as a replacement for such things.

To put it simply... you cant get decent character rigging with IKB, its a dead end. Other aspects of it are OK and quite useful.

As for the bang/buck/level of animation thing...

First, id like to see ANYONE produce 60secs of DECENT animation in a single day (all hand keyed)... using ikb or anything else.

And bear in mind, when I say DECENT... Im NOT talking pixar/dreamworks quality work... Im talking regular commercial/vid game quality.

All Ive EVER seen with IKB is the WORST looking animation that looks like it was done by a 12yo who'd never animated before. And despite asking time and again, over YEARS, to date, no-one who waffles on about how great ikb is can actually show anything to support their claims.

And folks can say the whole " Oh, different opinions/whatever works for you" all they like... but if they cant DEMONSTRATE that something works for them the way they claim, if they can't offer some kind of evidence to show their opinion is a reasonable one to reach (or accept)... then you have to be suspicious of the claim itself.

SHOW ME... that's all Ive ever asked... to date, no-one seems to be able to do so.

geo_n
06-25-2012, 11:51 AM
Speed Animation Challenge?? IKB vs standard IK. Just do it :D

Ryan Roye
06-25-2012, 12:00 PM
I can't provide examples of others work... so i'll risk embarassing myself to provide my own.

All of the character animation (including facial) for the figures in this installment of Delura was completed in 1 day (approx 40 seconds of animation total):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw8NLiQhaYQ

IKBooster for nearly every single motion seen in the video, including even the ships flying around. Sure, there are plenty of things that can be pointed out: The models are simple, the rigging could use some work, there's a minor tweak needed etc... it is far from perfect, but I think the animation is well enough so that it doesn't get in the way of the viewer's experience... there are plenty of things that appear on tv and other funded projects that look far worse than this IMO.

My 4th installment was also made entirely with IKBooster as the primary animation method (even a small fight scene in there), but I don't feel it represents my current skillset very well given the time that has passed between then and now, there is so much yet I have to learn still.

Had I the benefit of decent modeling and art skills most of those blemishes would be gone... but animation was a skill I learned far before I ever delved into actual art. It is a work in progress.

geo_n
06-25-2012, 12:13 PM
Thumbs up chazriker. They look like Starfox characters.
Haven't seen much of anything ca in lw recently so its good to see some.
Most of the ca are either maya or messiah, only rendered in lw.

Taro Yoshimoto
06-25-2012, 05:18 PM
What about Messiah? It's 199$ right now and the GUI look like a mix of XSI and LW. It include an autorig. Any idea if it's more user friendly?

DigitalSorcery8
06-25-2012, 05:27 PM
I can't provide examples of others work... so i'll risk embarassing myself to provide my own.

All of the character animation (including facial) for the figures in this installment of Delura was completed in 1 day (approx 40 seconds of animation total):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw8NLiQhaYQ

Pretty darn good CA if you ask me. VERY fluid character movement and extremely expressive I might add.

VERY well done! :thumbsup:

I'd have to say that that's a plus 1 for IKB. :)

SplineGod
06-25-2012, 05:33 PM
What about Messiah? It's 199$ right now and the GUI look like a mix of XSI and LW. It include an autorig. Any idea if it's more user friendly?

Messiah is quite good. A friend bought me a copy when it was $45 :)

jasonwestmas
06-25-2012, 06:04 PM
Just go out buy messiah for crying out loud. It's tons better than IKB and has the cool handle thing going on with armatures. Or give Rhiggit a go, it just works without much setup.

Taro Yoshimoto
06-25-2012, 06:50 PM
I am watching Messiah tutorials on youtube... it look somewhat challenging at first, mainly because of the different GUI and way of doing things. Do you think I can get the hang of it in let say 8-10 hours?

I've only 2 days to make a first test. At least I know lightwave...

jasonwestmas
06-25-2012, 07:11 PM
I am watching Messiah tutorials on youtube... it look somewhat challenging at first, mainly because of the different GUI and way of doing things. Do you think I can get the hang of it in let say 8-10 hours?

I've only 2 days to make a first test. At least I know lightwave...

no you need a few months to really get the hang of it. Just use rhiggit. it's easier if you need something now.

Titus
06-25-2012, 07:38 PM
I can't provide examples of others work... so i'll risk embarassing myself to provide my own.

All of the character animation (including facial) for the figures in this installment of Delura was completed in 1 day (approx 40 seconds of animation total):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw8NLiQhaYQ


Character animation isn't bad, even considering it was completed in one day.

Taro Yoshimoto
06-26-2012, 12:10 AM
I have a hard time selcting bones in LW11... I have to unselect the model and even then, I have to try 5-6 time before I succeed selcting a bone. Normal??

EDIT: Ok, got it! I have to be in the Bones mode (bottom of the screen). All is well when Im in Bones and not Objects.

MaDDoX
06-26-2012, 01:34 AM
RebelHill, just one question - if IKB sucked, why did Luxology copy its concept basically to-the-letter with their new 601 pose tool? Sure, IKB's problems are well known, unstable with multiple locked controllers and no "permanent" IK mode, it only bakes stuff across a range of frames. So definitely whenever you need things to stick to a prop or the ground - like lower limbs or spider legs - you're in for a world of trouble. Trying to mix IK with IKB also isn't very productive 'coz you have to keep switching from IKB to regular Lightwave controllers mode, which's completely workflow-disruptive.

But saying "character animation" is too bold in the way you put it, what if you're animating just face controllers for a close up shot? Or if you're animating a shark, that needs no IK? I clearly remember SplineGod did some pretty fluid shark animation back in the day for a TV show. The actual feline animation he did was a bit stiff imo, and also a push for what IKB implementation actually does, but saying everything done with IKB is garbage shows you didn't even see those works.

You know why, as much as I'm forced to use it for general lack of options, I despise traditional rigging? Because it's rigid. It's fixed. No free-flow. You gotta anticipate everything your character will ever do, take ages setting up constraints and controllers, and God forbid if your client ever decides he should now pull off a move you wasn't ever expecting him to do and that your rig doesn't support.

IKB's philosophy is amazing, and right on the spot - you "rig" your character on the fly, and re-rig it whenever you need it. No strings attached, that's what artists need. It's a shame that the actual math/code in IKB's implementation renders it so unstable. Even Larry knows that, I remember him mentioning it before. Now, Luxo did the right thing with a proper, super-stable IK-booster that works in perfect integration with a Full-Body IK solver. It's got room to mature and the FBIK rig sometimes seems to hamper some of the IKB-style posing freedom, but it's probably the most artist-friendly, un-plastered solution out there atm.

I wish for once Lightwave would look over the fence and at least check it out.

stiff paper
06-26-2012, 02:22 AM
- if IKB sucked, why did Luxology copy its concept basically to-the-letter with their new 601 pose tool?

I'm not a modo user, but I would hope that what Luxology is doing is taking the basic concept from IKB and making a new implementation that tries to fix some of the things that are awkward with it.

I'm also willing to bet that Lux has made their IKB equivalent feel like a more integrated and organic part of modo than IKB is in LightWave. That's one of the benefits of having a second go at things; you learn a lot from the first attempt. (Also, Lux has called it "Pose Tool," and right from the start that kind of cleverly puts up some boundaries to limit what everybody expects the tool to do.)

Nobody here is saying that the basic concept of IKB is useless - what they're actually saying is that IKB as it stands is seriously lacking in some very important ways as an all around character tool. But who knows? Maybe if NT can find a gap in the development cycle they can reengineer IKB and make everybody happy. They do have plenty of other stuff they'll want to do before that, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.

geo_n
06-26-2012, 03:04 AM
Character animation isn't bad, even considering it was completed in one day.

I think its pretty good given the time and chazrikers lone effort. Reminds me of video game cutscenes except ofcourse the models, lighting, shading are not yet there which again takes lots of time to do solo.
People(artists) are giving too much emphasis on pixar level animation.
Tintin looked great and even the cloth effects were super great. Did normal people even notice or care? Nope.
Final Fantasy Advent Children had crappy animation for the money squaresoft japan spent on it. The Tifa fight scene just sucked. But FFA made tons of money. There's room for all kinds of animation.

RebelHill
06-26-2012, 03:42 AM
Chaz - Sure... the animation u got there aint bad at all... don't go worrying about embarrassing yourself. Thats more or less what Id call par for the course for the majority of regular everyday stuff that u see (commercials, kids tv, etc). But again there's very little action, and certainly no complex actions... bit or turn left and right, and one or 2 steps. So I cant really imagine it being any slower done without IKB and a regular rig.

Taro - Yeah, 2 days to go from zero to character anim... umm... good luck I guess. Dont mean to put a downer, but I think your rigging solution is the least of your worries in getting that thing done.

Now as for Modo... It doesnt have some "IKB thing"... it has IKinema.

IKinema is a very interesting system, and yes there are a LOT of similarities to IKB, both in its general UI "look", and also in the kind of methodology of use you see... but inspite of that, its a VERY different animal.

It has REAL IK, pose/anim retargeting, goal/constraint system, fits to all sorts of crazy character shapes, etc. Its much more like IKB and a regular rigging system fused into one... with a fat dose of magic dust on top. However, do a lil looking and reading around and you'll find a lot of maya folk (where IKinema first appeared, and has its most complete implementation, better than modo) who see a lot of great and potential uses for it... but who STILL cant see it replacing traditional character rigging as it stands. The general opinion is that, for a lot of stuff, regular, purposefully designed character rigs are still the best option. But ofc, no doubt the IKB zealots are right, and the whole rest of the animation industry is wrong.

But IKB is NOWHERE near what IKinema can do... just because there are similarities doesnt mean IKB suddenly becomes good as if by magic.

But as for the "idea" of IKB... Im all for that, I've never said ANYTHING against it... what I do rail against, constantly... is the fact that teh idea is poorly implemented, leaving a system thats good for a few things (dopesheeting, retiming, and yes, fish and tentacles) but bugger all else. The system is NOT what its idea makes it out to be, ad when it comes to regular character work (biped quad etc) its an absolute joke by comparison to other methods... not in its setup ofc... but in its actual operation and outcomes... I mean there have been so many examples Ive seen where u just look at an animation and KNOW its IKB... cos its wooden, slippy, etc.

But for those who hope that maybe it'll get fixed/upgraded... well keep hoping. NT bought it (the IKB plugin) bundled it in, and then did nothing to it... no development, expansion, or anything. The developer is now gone, no-one (I believe) at NT knows the code... so its basically left, abandoned in limbo.

So if nothing else, that's gotta be reason one to forget it... cos it has no future. You risk wasting your time learning a system that's already badly documented, and unsupported, and which is only going to lose even more support over time.

And Maddox... as for this whole... "move your rig doesnt support" thing... I have utterly no idea what you're talking about... getting a rig to do whatever you want aint hard... I find... its not like you need one kind of setup for walking another for punchng, etc. Hell, my rigs do anything. In fact I remember years ago chatting with Larry and him raving on at me about IKB, telling me how it was "impossible" to get ANY pose out of regular LWIK, regular rigs, etc... to which I could only reply... "But, my rigs do, and Ive been making them for years"... He just flat out refused to believe me, oh well.

So much as I hate to say it, or sound... derisory... If someone has problems getting a certain pose, or action out of a regular rig... its simply because they've done something wrong, or don't really know how to rig properly.

And don't get me wrong, Im NOT saying that's a bad thing, or some kind of "failing"... cos rigging can be a tricksy business, no argument, it can be long winded, it can be confusing, and yes, u have to think many many steps ahead right from the start before u lay down a single bone or null much of the time. It would be TOTALLY unreasonable to expect that everyone should just have to get on and learn it, and be good at it, and equally unreasonable to say that folk shouldnt want (or be given) shortcuts to getting such things done.

That IS why I put out my autorigger afterall... "How do I rig my character RH?"... "Don't bother, Ive done it for you". Fast, solid, stable, predictable, any motion, any pose, and yes... it even works WITH ikb.

OnlineRender
06-26-2012, 03:49 AM
just throwing it in the mixer ...

http://www.blenderguru.com/videos/introduction-to-rigging

A complete beginner’s introduction to rigging, presented by Lee Salvemini.

RebelHill
06-26-2012, 04:24 AM
Maddox... Here's a simple lil example of what Im talking about with regard to pulling off moves that specific controls were never put in a rig to do... and how a general motion rig, with the right bits can be adjusted easily to fit the situation.

SplineGod
06-26-2012, 04:30 AM
Trying to mix IK with IKB also isn't very productive 'coz you have to keep switching from IKB to regular Lightwave controllers mode, which's completely workflow-disruptive.
Thats only if you dont set it up properly :) Lets say youve got your standard IK rigged character parented to a Master Null as well as the IKGoals and other controllers.You apply IKB to the Master Null, This means that the Standard IKGoals and other controllers Now have IKBoost applied to them as well. This allows all the bone channels NOT controlled by LWs IK to be controlled with IKB AND the IKGoals and other controllers as well. That way you dont have to jump back and forth between LW and IKB modes and you can now use the dopetrack with the proper keyframe modes to edit and manage your animations quickly as well as save and reuse poses and motion clips.


The actual feline animation he did was a bit stiff imo, and also a push for what IKB implementation actually does, but saying everything done with IKB is garbage shows you didn't even see those works.
It was a bit stiff as you say because each of those shots had to be done in 2.5 days including 22 sec of animation, the modeling, texturing, lighting, rigging and rendering. This is why we used IKB was because like many TV shows it had an insane schedule that required we used some other faster methods. Usually if animation isnt fluid its due to the schedule to finesse it rather then the tools. :)


You know why, as much as I'm forced to use it for general lack of options, I despise traditional rigging? Because it's rigid. It's fixed. No free-flow. You gotta anticipate everything your character will ever do, take ages setting up constraints and controllers, and God forbid if your client ever decides he should now pull off a move you wasn't ever expecting him to do and that your rig doesn't support.
This is why I do like IKB...its fast, free flowing and easy to get around its quirks. Plus its animation managment its simple and fast. Nothing ever gets in your way while working. I can save and reuse poses and motion clips from any part of a character or the whole character. I can even copy, paste, mirror poses and motions directly between characters.


IKB's philosophy is amazing, and right on the spot - you "rig" your character on the fly, and re-rig it whenever you need it. No strings attached, that's what artists need. It's a shame that the actual math/code in IKB's implementation renders it so unstable. Even Larry knows that, I remember him mentioning it before. Now, Luxo did the right thing with a proper, super-stable IK-booster that works in perfect integration with a Full-Body IK solver. It's got room to mature and the FBIK rig sometimes seems to hamper some of the IKB-style posing freedom, but it's probably the most artist-friendly, un-plastered solution out there atm.
These days I rarely have any problems with IKB. The reason is the same reason others have issues with it....lack of documentation. I still dont know every single thing it can do but what I do know has been very fast and stable. I also use it alot for dealing with mocap since IKB is designed to handle lots of keyframes.
As I said earlier, IKB comes with LW for better or worse, doesnt cost anything, so why not explore it? Nobody is absolutely committed to rigging or animating in any one particular way and its even possible to easily blend both worlds. Thats a big plus to me. :)

RebelHill
06-26-2012, 04:47 AM
Lets say youve got your standard IK rigged character parented to a Master Null as well as the IKGoals and other controllers.You apply IKB to the Master Null, This means that the Standard IKGoals and other controllers Now have IKBoost applied to them as well. This allows all the bone channels NOT controlled by LWs IK to be controlled with IKB AND the IKGoals and other controllers as well. That way you dont have to jump back and forth between LW and IKB modes and you can now use the dopetrack with the proper keyframe modes to edit and manage your animations quickly as well as save and reuse poses and motion clips.

Yeah, now that's using the bits of IKB that actually work, and is a fine idea IMO. My problem is only with IKBs (so called) rigging, which is awful, primarily due to its lack of any ACTUAL ik. Its an IK posing tool, not animating one, ehnce all the slipping, baking, and the problems and interruptions when you wanna go back and make changes.

But using a regular rig that is actually stable and solid, and taking that (or rather its controls/goals) to IKB to use its keyframe/pose/motion system... now thats a winner, no argument.

SplineGod
06-26-2012, 05:03 AM
IKBs IK is part time IK. Lightwaves IK system can be set to partime IK where the IK goals are used to pose only and keyframes set on the bones rather then the IK goals. It works either way. IKB works with part time IK just fine because the tools are designed to deal with lots of keyframes easily. But as I already mentioned IKB can also function as an IK "Booster". This is apparent when its setup that way because the channels controlled by LWs fulltime IK, plugins, modifiers etc show up as such in the node channels in IKB mode. Either way it works fine.But for those reading this thread, you own all of this already. Its worth investing the time to take a look and learn your software of choice to its fullest potential. :)

jasonwestmas
06-26-2012, 06:26 AM
RebelHill, just one question - if IKB sucked, why did Luxology copy its concept basically to-the-letter with their new 601 pose tool?

Hilarious if you think Ikinema is the same as IKB.

MaDDoX
06-26-2012, 09:21 AM
Hilarious if you think Ikinema is the same as IKB.
You make the same mistake as RebelHill: Modo's Fullbody IK = Ikinema. Modo's Pose Tools = IKB (+stability, no way IKB solving is half as stable as Modo's Pose tool). What I meant is that both *may* be used in tandem, and it's a great thing in many cases, but if all you need is a quick pose you don't need to use Fullbody IK at all.


You apply IKB to the Master Null, This means that the Standard IKGoals and other controllers Now have IKBoost applied to them as well.
I know, but actually rotating controllers using the standard LW gizmos is much more intuitive - to me at least - and there's no way to replace the IKB native controllers/gizmos with Lightwave's. That's why I ended up switching often, but it gets too confusing too quickly. Also, if you have to spend ages setting up an IKB rig to work with some IK solution and in the end it gets really cluttered (as it's easy to see in your videos) and hard to manage, I truly don't see much of a point in it.


And Maddox... as for this whole... "move your rig doesnt support" thing... I have utterly no idea what you're talking about...
Simple, you talk as if all rigs are of bipeds, and you never have to rig weird-design monsters, alien creatures or vehicles. That's what I'm talking about, something that actually requires creating a rig from scratch, not about your rig, the HIK (MotionBuilder) one or any other rig for the matter. Thanks for the video btw, but I believe we can agree that using offsets won't always make up for the lack of on-the-fly pinning and unpinning (and/or "reach" keyframing, as in Mobu).

Just one last thing guys: promoting your products is fine and dandy, just try to not get too obsessive about it aye? :hammer:

Cheers,

-MaDDoX

RebelHill
06-26-2012, 09:28 AM
No... Im talking rigs in general... bipeds are just by far the most common example, but the same ideas and approaches apply no matter the character "shape". An IK chain is an IK chain (or whatever small "subsytem" u care to mention). Its not like funny shaped characters or creatures need wholly different structures, they use the same ones, just in different ways, different layouts, but if you can make it work in one situation, you can make it work in any.

So i still dont get it, and haven't encountered these problems... or at least, havent encountered them for many years since the days when I didnt really know exactly what I was doing or the best ways to accomplish it.

ShadowMystic
06-26-2012, 10:47 AM
I have a hard time selcting bones in LW11... I have to unselect the model and even then, I have to try 5-6 time before I succeed selcting a bone. Normal??

EDIT: Ok, got it! I have to be in the Bones mode (bottom of the screen). All is well when Im in Bones and not Objects.

I suggest locking your model in the scene editor so you don't accidentally select it. Also, I believe once a character is rigged, a good rig for me will never require selection of bones. I take extra time to ensure there is a null handle for every control even if it is to prevent switching between bone and object selection modes.

jasonwestmas
06-26-2012, 12:46 PM
also make sure you are in bones mode, not item mode when selecting bones. The middle mouse button works better for selecting too.

ShadowMystic
06-26-2012, 12:54 PM
also make sure you are in bones mode, not item mode when selecting bones. The middle mouse button works better for selecting too.

I like the dbl click to bones mode option.

erikals
06-26-2012, 02:59 PM
 
what i love about IKB is the no need for double-clicking.
you can add that functionality to any object, but it seems most people forget about it?

i just can't stand Lightwave (or other packages) forcing you to first activate the object or controller, for then to modify it.

just add IKB controllers to the objects, problem solved, no more double-click.

Lightwave test - IKB Controller
http://youtu.be/PqOn-LIBI94

 

Taro Yoshimoto
06-26-2012, 09:52 PM
Double-click work perfectly! thanks

Nice little trick erikals! thanks

sandman300
06-27-2012, 01:02 AM
And don't get me wrong, Im NOT saying that's a bad thing, or some kind of "failing"... cos rigging can be a tricksy business, no argument, it can be long winded, it can be confusing, and yes, u have to think many many steps ahead right from the start before u lay down a single bone or null much of the time. It would be TOTALLY unreasonable to expect that everyone should just have to get on and learn it, and be good at it, and equally unreasonable to say that folk shouldnt want (or be given) shortcuts to getting such things done.

So what your saying is that it doesn't matter if it is IK, FK, or IKB. If you put the bones/joints in the wrong place (too high/low/forward/ backward/ whatever) then the rig is going to suck. And it doesn't matter how many controllers you might have. So with this in mind, what exactly is the benefit of your auto rigger?

It would be nice if Newtek would show IKB some love, I think it's a pretty decent tool, it has some great potential, and if the old code is that much of a stumbling block, maybe a complete re-write is in order.

erikals
06-27-2012, 03:08 AM
...and if the old code is that much of a stumbling block, maybe a complete re-write is in order.

[edit > looking for info]

not sure why they can't fix it though, maybe they don't have the complete source code for some reason.

 

RebelHill
06-27-2012, 03:30 AM
So what your saying is that it doesn't matter if it is IK, FK, or IKB. If you put the bones/joints in the wrong place (too high/low/forward/ backward/ whatever) then the rig is going to suck. And it doesn't matter how many controllers you might have.

Umm... no... Im not sure how you infer that from that which you quoted.

jasonwestmas
06-27-2012, 05:57 AM
what exactly is the benefit of your auto rigger?

It would be nice if Newtek would show IKB some love, I think it's a pretty decent tool, it has some great potential, and if the old code is that much of a stumbling block, maybe a complete re-write is in order.

I wouldn't waste you're time waiting around. There is affordable stuff that will knock your socks off that you can use right now.

What is the benefit of Rhiggit? I think the videos on it speak for themselves.

geo_n
06-27-2012, 06:42 AM
So what your saying is that it doesn't matter if it is IK, FK, or IKB. If you put the bones/joints in the wrong place (too high/low/forward/ backward/ whatever) then the rig is going to suck. And it doesn't matter how many controllers you might have. So with this in mind, what exactly is the benefit of your auto rigger?

It would be nice if Newtek would show IKB some love, I think it's a pretty decent tool, it has some great potential, and if the old code is that much of a stumbling block, maybe a complete re-write is in order.

As a rhiggit user I can say it saved me tons of hours rigging multiple characters.
Manually going through setting up bones, hierarchy, expressions and constraints, etc. All tedious, time consuming work. Rigging is not fun for me.

Besides that, testing deformations, re-rigging, testing deformations is the the best with rhiggit because you can do it in layout with a button click. The only thing missing for now is a selection panel for the controls.

RebelHill
06-27-2012, 06:59 AM
Rigging is not fun for me.

Dammit, uve reminded me of what I forgot...

I find rigging interesting and challenging... but fun... err, no! It is time consuming and when you have to do (essentialy the same thing) time after time on character after character it becomes a real drag.

So I take it back... I didn't make it for you lot, I made it for ME!!! :D

sandman300
06-27-2012, 10:52 AM
Umm... no... Im not sure how you infer that from that which you quoted.

Maybe because you don't want to. As I see it, your saying knowing how the rigging process works isn't needed because you can do it for us. Which is fine if someone using your rig knows how and where to set up the skelegons. for a particular character (AFAIK your rigger doesn't do that).

There is no substitute for practice and experience. I myself have made lots of bad rigs over the years, but I do learn from my mistakes and I am not too proud to take a look at what other people are doing and give their way a try. And I certainly, don't belittle a tool because it doesn't work the way I want it to.


I wouldn't waste you're time waiting around. There is affordable stuff that will knock your socks off that you can use right now.

Who's wasting time, I use IKB, and BTW it does what I need it to. I still have problems with the pose copying, mirroring and a few other things but generally if I set it up right, it works great.


What is the benefit of Rhiggit? I think the videos on it speak for themselves. The videos I saw did not.

RebelHill
06-27-2012, 11:24 AM
Maybe because you don't want to. As I see it, your saying knowing how the rigging process works isn't needed because you can do it for us. Which is fine if someone using your rig knows how and where to set up the skelegons. for a particular character (AFAIK your rigger doesn't do that).

Well no, I never made any reference to the particulars of joint placement... everything Ive been talking about (with regard to vanilla IKB vs regular constraint based rigs) has had to do with stability, and most of all predictability during animation. IKB is very... "loose" in this regard (if you get my meaning).

Joint placement has little to do with a good/bad rig (unless ofc one is trying to rig a particularly realistic character in which case anatomical innacuracies can give unusual looking results, or unless you're placing hips in the shoulders or similar). What I was talking about the whole time were rig mechanics and the building of a system of controls that can predictably pose any way one likes without flipping/breaking/etc.

When it comes to joint placement and my rigger, as Ive said before... as long as a user has the basic grasp of the difference between an arse and a elbow, that's largely all the need to know.

jeric_synergy
06-27-2012, 12:43 PM
 i just can't stand Lightwave (or other packages) forcing you to first activate the object or controller, for then to modify it.
I blame frikkin' Steve Jobs for that time-wasting nonsense.

IMO it's probably THE stupidest thing about the Mac OS:

"look, dipshit, I CLICKED on your damn button, DO something!"

"No, you didn't wake me up first."
---idiocy.


Software should be like a bright-eyed assistant. That paradigm turns it into a slothful, resentful assistant. :devil:

IMO, some of LW's color swatch controls suffer from the same damn syndrome.

jeric_synergy
06-27-2012, 12:47 PM
I wouldn't waste you're time waiting around.
NewTek can't even be bothered to properly document IKBoost, let alone spruce up the code.

Save yourself some grief and just get Messiah.
(Not a slam at IKB: just that we'll all get old and die before IKB sees some love from NTek.)

jasonwestmas
06-27-2012, 02:47 PM
yeah messiah is really nice when you need more advanced deformers quickly for 200 bucks. I really like the armature handles too. Plus that old messiah deformer plugin works great with LW11.

sandman300
06-27-2012, 03:50 PM
Well no, I never made any reference to the particulars of joint placement... everything Ive been talking about (with regard to vanilla IKB vs regular constraint based rigs) has had to do with stability, and most of all predictability during animation. IKB is very... "loose" in this regard (if you get my meaning).
Now I would tend to think the same about a constraint based IK, all too often I find that the IK chain gets funky because data is not being passed along properly since all the motion data is in the controller and not the actual bones being constrained.


Joint placement has little to do with a good/bad rig (unless ofc one is trying to rig a particularly realistic character in which case anatomical innacuracies can give unusual looking results, or unless you're placing hips in the shoulders or similar). What I was talking about the whole time were rig mechanics and the building of a system of controls that can predictably pose any way one likes without flipping/breaking/etc.
I have to disagree with you on this, bone placement has a big impact on not only animating a character but getting good deformations as well. Even Lino Grande (in his rigging videos) talks about being very careful about positioning bones in an IK chain to avoid the flipping/breaking/etc.

jeric_synergy: I've got Messiah. I got two pro licensees back during the promotion. I rigged a character but ended up with bad deformations in places where it should have been easy. I think if I had spent more time with it I would have eventually figured it out but I didn't have the time.

RebelHill
06-27-2012, 04:40 PM
Now I would tend to think the same about a constraint based IK, all too often I find that the IK chain gets funky because data is not being passed along properly since all the motion data is in the controller and not the actual bones being constrained.

Ok, well in that case I can only say that you've been setting up IK incorrectly. Done properly it NEVER goes funky. Try any of my rigs if you dont believe me.


I have to disagree with you on this, bone placement has a big impact on not only animating a character but getting good deformations as well. Even Lino Grande (in his rigging videos) talks about being very careful about positioning bones in an IK chain to avoid the flipping/breaking/etc.

Again... not a huge amount, and as I said, it largely depends on the character... if its meant to be very realistic, yes, small inaccuracies can make themselves shown during motion, as things just don't look right... but with less realistic stuff there's a lot more flexibility. Either way though, the difference is rarely that huge, and the real truth is that these differences have FAR more to do with the mesh itself that the teeny tiny precise placement of joints. If your joints are "roughy" in the right place... you're good 9/10 times.

And no, I think u may have missed something there... bone placement has almost NOTHING to do with IK stability... the only things that matter there are keeping the chain planar, and with appropriate prebend, and that's it.

geo_n
06-28-2012, 02:20 AM
Dammit, uve reminded me of what I forgot...

I find rigging interesting and challenging... but fun... err, no! It is time consuming and when you have to do (essentialy the same thing) time after time on character after character it becomes a real drag.

So I take it back... I didn't make it for you lot, I made it for ME!!! :D

Yeah we know. More beer time for YOU :devil:

MaDDoX
06-28-2012, 09:36 AM
everything Ive been talking about (with regard to vanilla IKB vs regular constraint based rigs) has had to do with stability, and most of all predictability during animation. IKB is very... "loose" in this regard (if you get my meaning).
That's along the lines of what I said, but since you've generalized too much in your "not the IKboost... its AWFUL!" original statement, the reactions were to be expected ;)

And as for your previous comment, of course if you have a super-tight rig it can reach any pose, but to set it up it's too time consuming - and yeah, takes lots of experience to pull off without mistakes every single time, especially under time-constraints pressure. Thus it's not uncommon to take "shortcuts" that may eventually bite your back along the road with more daring poses and animations.

Nevertheless, as far as I remember (and please correct me if I'm wrong) your Rhiggit is not a parts-based rigging system like I've seen some Maya plugins/scripts do - like, a leg part, a tail part, etc. Those parts can be combined in practically infinite ways and dress up any kind of alien spider + serpent hybrid one can think of. Thus, my point that in many cases you actually have to do that technical and error-prone process again and again for anything but basic biped/quadrupede creatures.

On a slightly related note, remember when we've discussed about having an explicit up-vector vs rotating the shoulder for pointing elbows? You did have a point that if you're leaning on a table with your shoulders the target up-vectors would be needed, but I still found that in most instances (arms floating in the air) animating the shoulder is more intuitive and make up for less clutter in the scene view. Well, playing with Modo's new system yesterday, I've noticed that if you have an arm IK and rotate the shoulder it does rotate the elbow - but differently from Motion Builder, it's a very "shaky" solve, a linear 40 degrees rotation on the shoulder seem to rotate the elbow in an ease-out, ease-in fashion. Setting up a traditional target constraint + up vector works this out, then you can link the shoulder rotation to that target constraint for a stable setup - which makes me think Motion Builder probably uses a similar setup. Ideas/comments?

Taro Yoshimoto
06-28-2012, 06:32 PM
How can I mirror the motion of my bones? Let's say that my ninja is in a karate position, the left arm in front of him, the right behind. I want to mirror this... right in front, left behind. must be easy but my googling attempts only give me general rigging pages.

jasonwestmas
06-28-2012, 06:35 PM
http://loupguru.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=50

ShadowMystic
06-28-2012, 07:29 PM
How can I mirror the motion of my bones? Let's say that my ninja is in a karate position, the left arm in front of him, the right behind. I want to mirror this... right in front, left behind. must be easy but my googling attempts only give me general rigging pages.

Edit:
Ignore this. I misread what you needed.

**Turn off AutoKey
Go to the frame you want to copy
select the the rear hand
move it to the position of the forward hand
Hit enter once to open Create Motion Key panel
Change create key at to the key frame you need it to be forward on.

Hint: This is how you ensure the end and beginning frames of your cycle are exact.

It seems this thread has devolved into a debate over IKB...

Taro Yoshimoto
06-28-2012, 08:12 PM
Yeah, no cycle here. Just want to inverse the pose. Sorry, I used to word motion when I really wanted to say position (and rotation!).

Thanks for the script Jason. There's no way to do this simple and obvious task natively? (my rig in very simple, no IK at all). For now I did it by hand because I dont animate characters often and I dont really need to spend money on a CA workflow.

jasonwestmas
06-28-2012, 08:44 PM
It's not so simple, you need a dedicated mirror pose plugin which was never developed for LW natively. It's not rocket science but most CA programs don't even have this. It's only 5 bucks and works wonders with rhiggit and other rigs.

Cageman
06-29-2012, 01:25 AM
i just can't stand Lightwave (or other packages) forcing you to first activate the object or controller, for then to modify it. 

Not sure what you mean really... can you elaborate?

geo_n
06-29-2012, 01:44 AM
Probably means active transform, rotate, scale handles. I love them in 3dcoat. I think silo has them, too.

SplineGod
06-29-2012, 02:27 AM
IKB allows mirroring of poses and motions from one side of a rig to the other.

geo_n
06-29-2012, 07:37 AM
IKB allows mirroring of poses and motions from one side of a rig to the other.

I never got that to work. Is it as simple as copy, paste mirror? Or save a pose file to hd and load?
Been using Tim Albee's script for a long time instead.

erikals
06-29-2012, 09:09 AM
Not sure what you mean really... can you elaborate?

Lightwave test - IKB Controller
http://youtu.be/PqOn-LIBI94

solution > IKB = no twice-click...

Ryan Roye
06-29-2012, 10:56 AM
I never got that to work. Is it as simple as copy, paste mirror? Or save a pose file to hd and load?
Been using Tim Albee's script for a long time instead.

If your character is leftways on frame 5, you can pose-copy the bones/nulls/whatever onto frame 10 and end up with a mirror of that pose. I find it easiest to do it one limb at a time.

Keep in mind that pose copy and motion copy... at least from what I can tell only mirrors rotations! Many people use XYZ-based IK goals to control their character's feet/arms, which is probably why most get stumped there. Mirroring IK feet/arms is pretty straightforward, just copy appropriate axis from left and apply it to right and vice versa.

Example of how to use mirror-pose copy for the arms of a character:

-Select Upper Left arm
-Select Upper Right arm (the previously selected item is always the "auto target")
-Right click >> motion tools >> pose copy >> set desired mirror (usually X), frame, etc.
-Repeat for other side

Note that motion copy works in the exact same way, only its function applies to a group of frames instead of a single frame. The power to save poses/animation is quite a handy thing... especially when you can transfer them between your characters even if their rigs are modified.

This doesn't render TA's mirror pose plugin obsolete by any means, but it gets the job done.



One more thing... ...

http://www.delura.tanadrine.com/image_manualupload/IKB_important.jpg

I actually didn't know about this until recently when I got a heads up about it... This tiny, inconspicuous option controls the keyframe mode of IKB; nearly every aspect of IKB's functions... including dynamics and even pose/motion saving are affected by this. This also determines what gets keyframes when you apply any action to any bone chain.

So, selecting your character's upper arm while your mode is set to "Parent", and trying to do a pose save will only result in the upper arm and up being saved (same applies when loading stuff)... most the time you want the keyframe mode set to "ALL" when you do this, but the ability to selectively apply poses is extremely handy too. Having this information just blew my mind...

SplineGod
06-29-2012, 03:11 PM
Copy/pasting poses and motion clips works well when using the same rig. Ive had it work on slightly different rigs where Ive added hold bones to the same rig. You can copy,save and reuse poses and motions in 4 ways:
1.Save/Load Poses/motions from the node menus.
2 Save/Load Poses/motions from the dopetrack
3.Copy poses/motions from the SAME character or different character (with the same rig).This can be, for example, right arm to right arm or mirrored right arm to left arm.
4.Poses can be copied directly from one point in time to another point in time. For example, a pose used on frame 20 can be copied and reused on frame 60. This doesnt have to be a keyframed pose but whatever position the character is in at that point in time.
The poses that I copy/save/load can be from the whole character or any part of the character and reused at any other place in time.
Now, how all this works depend entirely on which KEYFRAME MODE youre in at the time. This is the little menu in the lower left that chaz just pointed out. If you want to copy/paste/save/load a pose or motion from the WHOLE character you must set the keyframe mode to All Items OR have the root bone selected and set the keyframe mode to Child. If I want to do something with JUST the right arm, I set the keyframe mode to Child and select the right shoulder. This means that the shoulder AND all its children down to the fingers will be effected. If the keyframe mode is set to Current then JUST the currently selected item is effected. This essentially gives you the editing power of the dopesheet without having to leave the layout inteface or cover it up with the dopesheet. Its designed to create an efficient as possible workflow and its quite fast to create and edit key poses.
BTW Chaz, happy to blow your mind. :)

jeric_synergy
06-29-2012, 03:28 PM
Sounds like "Keyframe option" may be the missing key that baffles so many IKB users.

<:^\

SplineGod
06-29-2012, 03:49 PM
That could be. The keyframe modes are the core of how IKB works. The keyframe modes are used to:
1. Determine which part of a rig saves poses/motions, loads poses/motions, copies/pastes poses and motions.
2. Determine which keyframes are being edited at any given time. For example, click on the right shoulder. If the keyframe mode is set to Current then any editing or sliding of timing will effect only the shoulder. Change the KF mode to child and the timing in the whole arm will be effected. Change the KF mode to All Items and the timing for the whole character will be effected at once.
3. Determines which bones will have their dynamic properties effected while editing their weight, spring, viscosity etc for use with dynamics. This is also used to determine which bones are on or off when using dynamics so that only parts of a rig are effected.

I think the biggest issues is the overall lack of good documentation and good examples. With standard rigs you get a rig thats been setup and thats it. IKB rigs are designed to be changed on the fly as part of the pose to pose animation process so theres not a specific rig. Also the interface is designed for speed and efficiency. There are no pop up windows with tabs etc that get in the way. Everything is actually where it should be. So again, its a documentation issue. :)

Ryan Roye
06-29-2012, 04:04 PM
BTW Chaz, happy to blow your mind. :)

Being drop-kicked with knowledge isn't something that happens every day, you know.

SplineGod
06-29-2012, 04:09 PM
LOL! No doubt. I like the fact that the software is capable of doing more then I know how to do with it. It gives me something to look forward to sometimes...getting to learn something new. :)

jeric_synergy
06-29-2012, 04:14 PM
With standard rigs you get a rig thats been setup and thats it. IKB rigs are designed to be changed on the fly as part of the pose to pose animation process so theres not a specific rig.
Larry, for those of us in the peanut gallery:
Obviously you feel that the 'changed on the fly' part of IKB is a key feature to the profitable use of IKB, but I've never quite understood what you mean by that. :dance:

Would you please be so kind as to elaborate? :help:

Thanks!

E

SplineGod
06-29-2012, 05:00 PM
I guess it boils down to your preferred method of working. Some people like complex rigs that can do a lot of things or hopefully can do pretty much what you need it to do. Sometimes you have to use multiple rigs that y ou swap in and out at different times. Each rig might be setup to do certain things better or different then other rigs. Another type of rig is one you can change as you go. The idea being that you want the rig to hit the poses you need them to when you need them to.
With IKB suppose on a particular frame that the character is having a difficult time hitting a pose, I can simply redefine the IK chains which parts are controlled with FK or IK, which parts are fixed or not fixed etc...in other words change the rig as needed as I go. So instead of having to have a large knowledge of the different aspects of LW in order to rig, IKB requires a very basic set of tools that allow the rig to be easily altered or adapted on the fly. Since IKB places all animation on the bones and doesnt use goal objects this means that changing the rig doesnt change your animaton. Its just a workflow I am preferring more and more simply because in a lot of cases I have a limited amount of time on projects, as much as I like rigging, Id rather spend the time animating rather then rigging because typically thats what the client is paying for. :)

jasonwestmas
06-29-2012, 07:05 PM
Maybe NT will get something going more like Character studio but without the goofy rollout stuff. I'd use that if I needed to swap files and animations a ton of times. Practical Point Cache mixing would be next on my list of wants.

erikals
06-29-2012, 11:41 PM
btw, since i have some IKB people here,
does anyone know how i can make a IKB null movement drive the rotations of another null?

i was trying to make,
null1 x drive null2 h
null1 y drive null2 p
null1 z drive null2 b
by using cycler, but no luck... is there any other way?

(or is it just be me doing something silly again?)

 

geo_n
06-29-2012, 11:51 PM
Thanks guys. I actually have all of Larry's ikb tutorial and attended the webinar before. I'll review them again.

erikals - there was an ikb tutorial with gears and hydraulics that used only ikb to link objects together. The site is gone but I downloaded the video stream somewhere.

erikals
06-30-2012, 12:15 AM
ah, of course... i uploaded it ages ago :] :] thanks! :]

http://www.youtube.com/user/erikalst/videos?query=boosterlink

 

SplineGod
06-30-2012, 03:28 AM
lol, and I thought I was losing it :)
Ill check those out. I think I used link once. :)

MaDDoX
06-30-2012, 09:03 AM
Obviously you feel that the 'changed on the fly' part of IKB is a key feature to the profitable use of IKB, but I've never quite understood what you mean by that. :dance:
I also profoundly like that part in IKBoost, so you might want to read my suggestion on a "Flex IK" system - it's on the Maya forum, but it could be done for Lightwave as well: http://mayafeedback.autodesk.com/forums/160514-ideas-for-maya-forum/suggestions/2967097-flex-ik-pose-tool

jeric_synergy
06-30-2012, 09:18 AM
That could be. The keyframe modes are the core of how IKB works. The keyframe modes are used to:
1. Determine which part of a rig saves poses/motions, loads poses/motions, copies/pastes poses and motions.
2. Determine which keyframes are being edited at any given time. For example, click on the right shoulder. If the keyframe mode is set to Current then any editing or sliding of timing will effect only the shoulder. Change the KF mode to child and the timing in the whole arm will be effected. Change the KF mode to All Items and the timing for the whole character will be effected at once.
3. Determines which bones will have their dynamic properties effected while editing their weight, spring, viscosity etc for use with dynamics. This is also used to determine which bones are on or off when using dynamics so that only parts of a rig are effected.
If I can make a simile:

I'm betting that neglecting to note the status of the keyframe mode, and it's pretty subtle (just the label on the button), is akin to not noticing that MAKE KEYFRAME has been set to "All Items", and suddenly everything is getting keyframes and messing up your scene. ('Make Keyframe' modes are persistant.)

If there were a subtle highlight that indicated which items were getting keyframed, perhaps that would make IKB more approachable and usable. Hey, it could even be OPTIONAL for advanced users.

sandman300
06-30-2012, 10:25 AM
If there were a subtle highlight that indicated which items were getting keyframed, perhaps that would make IKB more approachable and usable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFQzmXJVT_s

If you watch this video you can notice that when SplineGod moves or rotates anything, all the child nodes turn white. That is your subtle :D highlight in action.

jeric_synergy
06-30-2012, 10:53 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFQzmXJVT_s

If you watch this video you can notice that when SplineGod moves or rotates anything, all the child nodes turn white. That is your subtle :D highlight in action.
Damn, I suck!! :D :thumbsup: --It's suitably subtle.

Well, spotted, and I am appropriately humbled. Sheesh, what IKB could have accomplished if NewTek had understood what they had. A lesson, to be sure.

erikals
06-30-2012, 12:49 PM
 
hm, almost there, but not quite...
http://youtu.be/kypXd18LQcs
any ideas...?

(scene file attached)

 

erikals
06-30-2012, 06:47 PM
 
(btw, re-uploaded the BoosterLink videos, they are now complete, instead of cut/split into max 10min)

IKB - BoosterLink 1
http://youtu.be/-OXj9kOfBk4

IKB - BoosterLink 2
http://youtu.be/1y2ilstWLio

IKB - BoosterLink 3
http://youtu.be/b95_RTJaksY

 

SplineGod
06-30-2012, 10:39 PM
Thanks for reposting Colins videos :)
I also wish boosterlink could be used with other channels

erikals
07-01-2012, 03:03 PM
 
:] check >
www.youtube.com/watch?v=b95_RTJaksY#t=6m12s

 

SplineGod
07-01-2012, 04:45 PM
Thanks! Saw that. I remember talking to Ino awhile ago and he said that you cant use boosterlink to access things like light envelopes, morph channels etc.

erikals
07-01-2012, 06:18 PM
yeah, might be, only the "normal" channels i guess, xyz, hpb, +scale-x-y-z...

joshcxa
07-04-2012, 04:05 PM
I have a hard time selcting bones in LW11... I have to unselect the model and even then, I have to try 5-6 time before I succeed selcting a bone. Normal??

EDIT: Ok, got it! I have to be in the Bones mode (bottom of the screen). All is well when Im in Bones and not Objects.

Uncheck Dbl. Click Bone Mode. This way it works like earlier versions of lightwave where you can click on an item normally.
http://i.imgur.com/AzTxT.jpg

Taro Yoshimoto
07-04-2012, 05:41 PM
Thanks!!