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rednova
06-23-2012, 01:59 PM
Dear Friends:

I am learning lightwave 3d and I am really happy with it so far.
In the future is possible I can come up with good money to
spend on anything I want to.Is possible then for me to get the
best possible version of maya.
But will do any good for me to use maya ?
Even though I am only a hobbyist, I am looking to become
a freelance animator in the future.
Will maya do any good..if I still use lightwave along ?
Or will lightwave be good enough for a freelance animator ?
Is any reason I should like maya ?
Thanks,

rednova

DigitalSorcery8
06-23-2012, 02:34 PM
Do you have any freelance jobs?

Considering the cost of Maya (not to mention the learning curve), how long will it take for you to pay for the purchase?

Is there anything you have been doing in LW that you can't do and that you NEED Maya?

What exactly do you plan on doing as a freelancer? What kind of animation?

Lots of questions before anyone can really answer you. But... I would say that with LW you're already a good ways there to do whatever you need to do. Why do you NEED Maya?

jasonwestmas
06-23-2012, 03:46 PM
Yes, Learn some stuff from Maya, Max and Softimage, Lightwave etc. if whenever possible. you'll only increase your income if you want to do this stuff for a living. . . so price for a few licenses will become trivial anyway.

The main reason to use maya imo is for the nice dynamics and advanced character tool options.

DigitalSorcery8
06-23-2012, 04:07 PM
Yes, Learn some stuff from Maya, Max and Softimage, Lightwave etc. if whenever possible. you'll only increase your income if you want to do this stuff for a living. . . so price for a few licenses will become trivial anyway.

The main reason to use maya imo is for the nice dynamics and advanced character tool options.

I couldn't disagree with you more. It really ALL depends on what he wants to do. If he WANTS to get a job working for someone else, then yes, Maya (and the others) probably are the way to go. But if he wants to freelance oddjob animations - and it depends on exactly what those animations are, then LW would probably be just fine. But, it does depend on how he answers the questions I posted above. I've been using LW to make a living for years - though that's mostly archviz. But it is also quite capable of doing animations as well - and I know that you know that. ;) For me, I have zero desire to work for anyone else any more. What software he actually uses depends on what rednova wants to do. Right? I mean, why buy and learn Maya if his freelance gigs will be small and few and far between? How long will it take to make back that expenditure? Of course if he WANTS to work in the big leagues for big companies, then by all means, buy Maya!

rednova
06-23-2012, 04:55 PM
Hi:
I would probably get few freelance jobs and not pay a lot for them.It will take me a long time
to repay what maya costs.I do not need maya and content with lightwave I am.
What I really want to do with animation though, is to produce independent movies, and lightwave is good enough for me to do it at this point. I am happy with lightwave so far and it does everything I need. I just wanted to know if Maya would help me or be better than lightwave, or if Maya can do something for me that lw cannot.
Thank you !!!

erikals
06-23-2012, 05:10 PM
 
cartoon animations are easier to do in Maya (bendy rigs / lattice)
also Maya dynamics are much better than LW dynamics
(especially cloth, though marvelous designer does a good job)

(edit: i see jasonwestmas basically said the same thing)

beyond that, the Maya advantages for a freelancer / independent filmmaker is less.

some Lightwave renders > http://www.youtube.com/user/erikalst/videos?query=render
as you can see, you can do some great stuff with Lightwave, but of course like in any package,
there are limitations.

also take into the consideration Maya upgrade price(s) > not cheap.

 

silviotoledo
06-23-2012, 05:58 PM
In my opinion, Maya is a bit more complex and takes more time to learn and get results. That's why I like lightwave. Lightwave is easier to work and fast to get results.

But when you need complex simulation/dynamics and layered deform, lightwave is poor and you will need Maya.

Generally Lightwave is ready for doing fast 80% of the job! But you will need maya or Xsi for doing the rest 20%.

DigitalSorcery8
06-23-2012, 06:32 PM
Hi:
I would probably get few freelance jobs and not pay a lot for them.It will take me a long time
to repay what maya costs.I do not need maya and content with lightwave I am.
What I really want to do with animation though, is to produce independent movies, and lightwave is good enough for me to do it at this point. I am happy with lightwave so far and it does everything I need. I just wanted to know if Maya would help me or be better than lightwave, or if Maya can do something for me that lw cannot.
Thank you !!!

In that case, Lightwave is MORE than enough to take care of what you want to do. It will take quite some time to get up to speed with all that LW can do and it is MORE than capable of producing the independent movies that you want. When you become proficient in LW and you start to hit brick walls, then that might be the time to look into Maya or SI or... When you find that your rigs just won't do what you want them to do, then look into Maya or SI. But for making your independent movies NOW, LW is able to get the job done. And hopefully NT will continue to improve LW faster and by the time you begin to hit those brick walls, LW will removed those impediments.

IMO just start slowly and do a few shorts in the style that you want. This way you can practice to get to the point of where you want to be. THEN start making those independent movies! :thumbsup:

Dexter2999
06-23-2012, 07:03 PM
My two cents:

That money you would have spent on buying Maya (full version) can buy other things like ZBrush, a Wacom, compositing software, LW training, etc...

If you have access to a learning edition of Maya, that is great. It could mean that if you ever NEED to do something that LW can't, you may already have a working knowledge of how to do it in Maya. This way you don't have to worry about a learning curve with a deadline over your head. You only need to purchase the full version to get the work done.

But as a hobbiest, the cash outlay and the required subscription fees for Maya are hard to justify.

erikals
06-23-2012, 09:05 PM
this said,
is Blender up on par with Maya these days as far as cartoon animation and normal rigging goes?
might be worth a look,...

BlenRig > www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2qUr--XMMk
Lattice > www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvWOb6IYDtM#t=5m40s

 

geo_n
06-23-2012, 10:50 PM
Don't sweat about owning maya.
People who own maya, max, xsi, c4d at the same time are using crack anyway.
I have not met a freelancer who owns any of those packages that is legit regardless of location around the globe.
Lightwave base app is cheap and good enough for most one man projects. As a one man army you will do everything and that equates to your own time and money. You need to probably target projects with quick turnaround and good pay to sustain constant income. Complex projects need complex software but also need multiple people to help you out. Unless you single-handedly want to spend 3 months to 6 months for a complex project that in the end when you break down your net revenue, its very little.

silviotoledo
06-24-2012, 03:03 AM
yeah!

Remember you're not a superman, so first you will need to know wich CG area is the one you're intersted in. 3D have too much areas inside like modeling, sculpting, animating, lightning, rendering...

Lightwave is a great software for a " one man " generalist work.

Maya is more for complex work and team work. Not that you can't do a job alone in Maya, but it will require too much more effort. You can try personal learning editions before buying any of these softwares.

No sense to buy Maya if you want to be just a modeler.
For this there's SILO, wich is cheap.

For doing 80% of everything Lightwave is the cheapest software available.
It's not only cheap. It's one of the greatest tools available.

silviotoledo
06-24-2012, 03:22 AM
this said,
is Blender up on par with Maya these days as far as cartoon animation and normal rigging goes?
might be worth a look,...

BlenRig > www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2qUr--XMMk
Lattice > www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvWOb6IYDtM#t=5m40s




Blender is a great professional software, but a little alien.
Zbrush is totally allien and everybody uses anyway.

My experience using Blender is limited to modeling. Although it's fast for modeling I still don't like the interface. I don't like Bender subpatch too. The lightwave one is so good that I can't accept the blender one neither others.

I've used Blenrig for initial animation tests. Yeah, Blender can do CA very well if you domain the tool, but it has not the same "unlimited" control for rig Maya has.

That's the problem when you need complex results, you will need to spend several time learning complex or alien software tools.

At the end, complex animations are usually done by team only. That's the best way to combine the tools. I'm tired to try to learn CG, so I preffer to do great things with the basic I already know. This is giving me time to back to study and do art.

jasonwestmas
06-24-2012, 10:54 AM
In my opinion, Maya is a bit more complex and takes more time to learn and get results. That's why I like lightwave. Lightwave is easier to work and fast to get results.

.

I feel the opposite in the context of animation actually. Just my perspective. In the end, the more you know then the more jobs you'll get. But yeah it's completely possible to specialize in facial animation and get paid well if there just so happens to be that much work around for it in just lightwave. But if you see three jobs for it and they are all in different apps then you most likely would want to feel comfortable in all three apps. if you are in need of work. There may be or there may not be so again, the more you know. . .

JamesCurtis
06-24-2012, 10:54 AM
Been using Lightwave 3D since it's inception, and have never looked elsewhere.

Here is a sample of industrial animation I did recently for a client using LW10.1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0xPN-Bqrts

It's a virtual scrap yard fly through animation done for a trade show this past April using LW and a few free plugins. The logo and text overlays were not done by me. There is no audio - way too much noise at the show for it.

BTW, this project netted me $15,000.

Cryonic
06-24-2012, 11:23 AM
If you have a .edu email address, then Autodesk has a way for you to get a license of Max/Maya/etc... for free, for learning purposes only.

jasonwestmas
06-24-2012, 11:25 AM
Yes, it is easy to "Learn" maya stuff. Plus there are thousands of videos on it. Maya is popular for a reason, not just because of dumb luck.

gravin
06-24-2012, 12:14 PM
I think you can also rent Maya, XSI, etc if you ever needed it for a job. Of course you would have to already know how to use it and be able to turn out an end result quickly to make this option cost effective. I learned Maya in school and it is a great package, very powerful, a little more complex and unwieldy but a good value. Once you learn to think the way Maya works it's like a eureka moment and it all starts to make sense, at least that's how it was for me. I just don't like the buy in for life licensing scheme and the high upgrade cost. I think it would be good for you to learn Maya, and or XSI then when and if you ever need it for a paying job you could work the cost of renting a license into you're expenses.

Edit: I double checked my claim that it was possible to rent Maya, XSI, etc by the week/month and I'm either imagining things or this may no longer be the case. I could of sworn I saw this available on Novedge or MotionMedia when I was pricing software before leaving school?

jeric_synergy
06-24-2012, 12:45 PM
My two cents:

That money you would have spent on buying Maya (full version) can buy other things like ZBrush, a Wacom, compositing software, LW training, etc...
It would be interesting to see a little chart showing what one could buy with the cash required for Maya. Although I'd push 3DCoat, just because.


But as a hobbiest, the cash outlay and the required subscription fees for Maya are hard to justify.
Huge understatement! :D

jasonwestmas
06-24-2012, 01:08 PM
yeah, no real reason to be a maya hobbyist imo.

jeric_synergy
06-24-2012, 04:25 PM
yeah, no real reason to be a maya hobbyist imo.
Not to take any sales from LW, but I'd think Blender would be MORE than adequate for most hobbyists. Plus you get a nodal (?) compositor, a sequence editor, and a primitive(?) sculpting capability.

I gotta say, their books are fanTAStic, beautifully done. And that you get all the production assets when you purchase any of their movies is amazing.

Silkrooster
06-25-2012, 12:06 AM
yeah, no real reason to be a maya hobbyist imo.

Couldn't you say anyone learning is a hobbyist until they start making money with it?

I say, if the OP can afford to do so, then by all means go for it. If they ever get an interview and they ask if they can do X Y or Z on such and such software, they are more apt to get that job if they can honestly say yes.
Learning what you can with the resources that are available is well worth their efforts. One could think of it like life insurance, if one wanted to.
Besides the OP stated that they were planing on still using lightwave, so it really boils down to what they can afford and where they can put that money to good use.
Updating a computer system, or adding a higher quality DSLR or Video camera or heck even getting the bills caught up could be good candidates as well.
I really don't see how we can really tell them whats the best way to spend money they may be getting with out looking at their equipment, financials, etc.
But on the other hand, its kind nice just to dream about what someone could have in their arsenal.

BTW Jason, not all of this post is directed totally at you, it kind of started there and got on a roll. LOL.

jasonwestmas
06-25-2012, 07:10 AM
Couldn't you say anyone learning is a hobbyist until they start making money with it?

I say, if the OP can afford to do so, then by all means go for it. If they ever get an interview and they ask if they can do X Y or Z on such and such software, they are more apt to get that job if they can honestly say yes.
Learning what you can with the resources that are available is well worth their efforts. One could think of it like life insurance, if one wanted to.
Besides the OP stated that they were planing on still using lightwave, so it really boils down to what they can afford and where they can put that money to good use.
Updating a computer system, or adding a higher quality DSLR or Video camera or heck even getting the bills caught up could be good candidates as well.
I really don't see how we can really tell them whats the best way to spend money they may be getting with out looking at their equipment, financials, etc.
But on the other hand, its kind nice just to dream about what someone could have in their arsenal.

BTW Jason, not all of this post is directed totally at you, it kind of started there and got on a roll. LOL.

I don't care, you guys can be angry with me or other multi-app people or disagree, that's fine. :) There are cheaper ways to learn maya and other apps. And I'm sure the nextlimit and sidefx marketing strategy will catch on.

And I would list the great deals that other companies are making on their software but that would not go over well.

jeric_synergy
06-25-2012, 09:04 AM
I don't think anybody is "angry" with anybody here. >:^\

IMO, the operative sentence in the quote was "...if the OP can afford to do so..." If a hobbyist has, what? three grand to to$$ around, more power to him! However, I think we all assume that for a hobby, a certain amount of frugality is desirable.

FWIW, I think learning if one can stand the process of 3D is more important than learning any specific application: no matter which tool you use, it's a tedious, exacting process.

jasonwestmas
06-25-2012, 09:30 AM
3D is just tedious no matter where we go. At the end of the day though, we either are getting more done using one set of tools or another depending on the project.

jeric_synergy
06-25-2012, 10:57 AM
3D is just tedious no matter where we go.
Amen to that.

I think artists have to be really excited about their vision to get thru the grinding tedium of creating the damn thing. --Or maybe I'm just really slow.

jasonwestmas
06-25-2012, 10:59 AM
Amen to that.

I think artists have to be really excited about their vision to get thru the grinding tedium of creating the damn thing. --Or maybe I'm just really slow.

uhh, no it takes a lot of VISION to get anything done with software.

jeric_synergy
06-25-2012, 12:12 PM
uhh, no it takes a lot of VISION to get anything done with software.
The excitement gets you through the horrible process. :P

jasonwestmas
06-25-2012, 12:45 PM
The excitement gets you through the horrible process. :P

The foreseeable excitement, not necessarily the entire process. :)

Cryonic
06-25-2012, 01:42 PM
I don't think anybody is "angry" with anybody here. >:^\

IMO, the operative sentence in the quote was "...if the OP can afford to do so..." If a hobbyist has, what? three grand to to$$ around, more power to him! However, I think we all assume that for a hobby, a certain amount of frugality is desirable.

FWIW, I think learning if one can stand the process of 3D is more important than learning any specific application: no matter which tool you use, it's a tedious, exacting process.

I've met a number of hobbyists that throw that kind of money around for their hobbies. Players of games like Warhammer Fantasy or Warhammer 40k spend that much or more on models, miniatures, paints, etc... for a single army and then keep doing it over the years as new versions of the game come out (Fantasy is up to 7th Ed and 40k is about to get a 6th Ed release).
People who are members of the SCA easily spend that or more on weapons and armor... and on trips to participate in their hobby.

So, really the only thing that defines something as a hobby vs a job isn't how much you spend on it, but how much you earn doing it... :)

mav3rick
06-25-2012, 02:16 PM
red ... honestly.. keep money for something else.. lightwave is, and will be more than enough for you ..

Lewis
06-25-2012, 02:16 PM
Better go to upgrade your Lw to Lw11 and learn new stuff that got added to LW11. That'll do just fine for starting freelance business and lot of cheaper than buying/learning Maya form scratch.

erikals
06-25-2012, 03:04 PM
 
Lightwave will also be good to have for modeling if you wanna jump to Maya later on.
Also you can add on LWCAD and you will maybe have the best Modeler application around...

(btw, heard rumors they are working on more and better Modeler tools, a bird told me...) http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/chicken.gif
(that's a rumor though... not fact, yet...) http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

 

jeric_synergy
06-25-2012, 04:36 PM
And remember there's ALWAYS a 'grass is greener' effect. The other guys' tools ALWAYS seem cooler than yours, because you haven't had to find out all their limitations yet.

jasonwestmas
06-25-2012, 05:29 PM
And remember there's ALWAYS a 'grass is greener' effect. The other guys' tools ALWAYS seem cooler than yours, because you haven't had to find out all their limitations yet.

grass is greener is also a two way street . :) Or in my case a 4 way street.

DigitalSorcery8
06-25-2012, 05:35 PM
But sometimes...

jasonwestmas
06-25-2012, 05:44 PM
But sometimes...

If you really enjoy that, I guess that's the best way.

rednova
06-25-2012, 05:48 PM
@maverick:
you are a good friend and I appreciate your advice.

@all of you
Thank you for helping me

I am very happy with lightwave, and it can do all I need.
I just wanted to know if Maya will help me at all.

thank you,

rednova

DigitalSorcery8
06-25-2012, 05:51 PM
If you really enjoy that, I guess that's the best way.

No, not really. I just have extremely limited time and a more limited cash flow. As much as I'd like to learn Blender, there is little time - and the older you are, the more it takes to learn. I'd love to get Softimage, but again, no money or time. So for the time being I am stuck on that "one-way" street with LW. But then... it's not so bad. :)

Besides... I'm hoping to have other people work with me to make far better animations than I could myself. And... whatever software is needed to get the job done efficiently (and cost-effectively) - we'll get it! :thumbsup:

geo_n
06-25-2012, 10:07 PM
I've met a number of hobbyists that throw that kind of money around for their hobbies. Players of games like Warhammer Fantasy or Warhammer 40k spend that much or more on models, miniatures, paints, etc... for a single army and then keep doing it over the years as new versions of the game come out (Fantasy is up to 7th Ed and 40k is about to get a 6th Ed release).
People who are members of the SCA easily spend that or more on weapons and armor... and on trips to participate in their hobby.

So, really the only thing that defines something as a hobby vs a job isn't how much you spend on it, but how much you earn doing it... :)

But then those are tangible products for hobbies and even collectibles.
I've spend as much for radio controlled cars, planes, helicopters.
But this is software.
And with the internet so fast its just easier to distribute cracks online.
So hobbyist, freelance pro, doesn't matter. If they have 3-5k USD per program to throw around for software then they must be really doing good on their freelance with exceptional skills or independently rich. :D

Cryonic
06-25-2012, 10:33 PM
But then those are tangible products for hobbies and even collectibles.
I've spend as much for radio controlled cars, planes, helicopters.
But this is software.
And with the internet so fast its just easier to distribute cracks online.
So hobbyist, freelance pro, doesn't matter. If they have 3-5k USD per program to throw around for software then they must be really doing good on their freelance with exceptional skills or independently rich. :D

And you could steal all those products off the shelves... with the same result (getting something for "free").

In either case (buying models or buying software) if you have the money to spend and enjoy the task of the hobby, then spend the money... but it's still a hobby if you aren't trying to profit from it.

DigitalSorcery8
06-25-2012, 10:50 PM
And you could steal all those products off the shelves... with the same result (getting something for "free").

In either case (buying models or buying software) if you have the money to spend and enjoy the task of the hobby, then spend the money... but it's still a hobby if you aren't trying to profit from it.

Now THAT'S funny. You can't equate the EASE of someone stealing software on the internet to someone going into a store and stealing lots of merchandise. That dog don't bark. In fact there are MANY people who feel that STEALING on the internet is not REALLY stealing. I know someone who downloads movies all of the time (not buying the DVD's) and doesn't think twice about it. And she would NEVER go into a store and start stealing things off of the shelves. It's a mindset that they can't seem to understand. Quite sad, but true. I couldn't do that since I often prefer the Making Of portions of the DVD's as opposed to the actual movie. :)

jasonwestmas
06-26-2012, 06:28 AM
But then those are tangible products for hobbies and even collectibles.
I've spend as much for radio controlled cars, planes, helicopters.
But this is software.
And with the internet so fast its just easier to distribute cracks online.
So hobbyist, freelance pro, doesn't matter. If they have 3-5k USD per program to throw around for software then they must be really doing good on their freelance with exceptional skills or independently rich. :D

hehe, yah, let's be realistic. Most hobbyists just get cracks.