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Rayek
06-14-2012, 11:56 PM
Again, no new Mac Pro - and the 'update' is quite sad to say the very least. I now believe for 98% that Apple's board of directors does not have even remotely vested interests in their professional users.

Why on earth no new Sandy Bridge Mac Pro? The current offering is utterly outdated, and for performance in rendering one should look elsewhere. The difference is quite marked:
http://barefeats.com/sandy01.html

And the new Mac Book Pro: soldering memory chips and battery glued in the casing, no blue-ray writer/player... Nice display, though - but I am certain that kind of resolution will have an impact on our viewport performance in OpenGL.

Shake terminated, Xserver dumped, the Final Cut Pro debacle, the mac book pro 17" discontinued, Color down the drain, iMac tft's unsuitable for colour sensitive work (meagre colour gamut), Final Cut Server killed off, and it will not stop, I feel.

Logic's price dropped (just like Shake's price did) to convince pro (music/sound) creators to buy a shiny new Mac - it would not surprise me if Logic is dead within two years, seeing Apple's track record.

I recall a time when I would have begged anyone for a Mac, but those times are unfortunately over and done with.

geo_n
06-15-2012, 12:17 AM
More money in mobile platform for consumer market. Pro market for apple is too small revenue. More and more people are using pc for desktop publishing and video.

jeric_synergy
06-15-2012, 12:43 AM
Is the Shake code available? Someone should re-release it.

Rayek
06-15-2012, 12:54 AM
Is the Shake code available? Someone should re-release it.

As far as I am aware, it's still in the hands of Apple - and they will *never* let it go. They probably re-used bits and pieces in Motion.

biliousfrog
06-15-2012, 02:08 AM
They've got far too much competition in the PC market to even make a dent. I doubt that the time spent in R&D and production of 'pro' computers will ever make a profit now for Apple. Even Windows workstations have become less necessary with desktop components becoming so advanced.

For many people now Apple are just a mobile device company, that's the thing which is keeping Apple afloat. In reality, Apple are really just an operating system developer but, because they've always tied the OS to their own hardware, they're constantly struggling to compete with better mobile devices. Within a couple of months (sometimes days) of a new iPad, iPhone, MacBook, a better, cheaper device has been produced which runs Android or Windows...and most people can't justify buying a more expensive, lower spec'd device just for a logo and an OS.

SBowie
06-15-2012, 05:41 AM
That said, I think it would be incorrect to view them as 'struggling to compete' in their target markets. They are clearly managing to do so with a measure of success that causes most people to view them as the market leader, however much some might see their work as somewhat derivative, and they seem to manage to be one of the most profitable companies on the planet.

3dworks
06-15-2012, 06:01 AM
Is the Shake code available? Someone should re-release it.

buy nuke and you have it...

3dworks
06-15-2012, 06:04 AM
The answer to the thread title is "yes". Not enough money to be made by the few pros compared to the millions of "casual thingy users". Semi-officially stated by Apple here and there. Simple as that.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/06/tim-cook-something-really-great-coming-in-2013-for-pro-mac-users/

ianr
06-15-2012, 06:24 AM
I'm afraid to say that in a article it might have
been in the FT(Financal Times) entitled Apple vs
Goggle . All was stated as you have said but also
Quote
Apple are getting out of the server Market( for that
read Mac Pro) they now don't like the name Mac?
WellFT don't do wild rumor they trend investment.
I think that you are looking as a fading death on the
Vine in corporate speak. Sure would like a 24 thread iPad
Say 18 inch screen running wacom cintiq draw & Siri talk.

Nicolas Jordan
06-15-2012, 06:56 AM
It would not surprise me at all if the Mac Pro is done away with completely in the next year or two and Apple gets out of the Desktop market altogether. The market for Desktops even on the PC side of things has shrunk considerably.

stiff paper
06-15-2012, 07:22 AM
Maybe some DD veterans can chime in...
Er... okay.

Nuke predates Shake. Nuke does not use any code "stolen" from Shake. If I remember rightly, at least one person who'd worked on Nuke went off to help write Shake.

Shake was essentially a copy of Nuke that came about because Nuke was not commercially available (it was an in-house tool for DD use only, and at that point Nuke didn't even run on Windows anyway.) Somebody obviously saw that there was a market for a "commercial" version of Nuke.

In other news, for those who weren't around or might have forgotten... Shake was not originally on the Mac. It was on the PC. Apple bought out the company and immediately closed down the PC version, leaving all the PC users high and dry... and all because they were desperate to get their hands on all those lovely pro users.

How times change.

cresshead
06-15-2012, 08:58 AM
Er... okay.

Nuke predates Shake. Nuke does not use any code "stolen" from Shake. If I remember rightly, at least one person who'd worked on Nuke went off to help write Shake.

Shake was essentially a copy of Nuke that came about because Nuke was not commercially available (it was an in-house tool for DD use only, and at that point Nuke didn't even run on Windows anyway.) Somebody obviously saw that there was a market for a "commercial" version of Nuke.

In other news, for those who weren't around or might have forgotten... Shake was not originally on the Mac. It was on the PC. Apple bought out the company and immediately closed down the PC version, leaving all the PC users high and dry... and all because they were desperate to get their hands on all those lovely pro users.

How times change.

same with logic [music app] was on pc and mac...bought..killed the windows version but it's still being developed for osx which is nice!

dwburman
06-15-2012, 09:05 AM
In other news, for those who weren't around or might have forgotten... Shake was not originally on the Mac. It was on the PC. Apple bought out the company and immediately closed down the PC version, leaving all the PC users high and dry... and all because they were desperate to get their hands on all those lovely pro users.

How times change.

I don't know if they immediately stopped development of the PC version or not, but they didn't stop selling the PC version. They just left the price of the PC version up high ($9,000?) and made the OSX version much cheaper ($3,000?). They might not have closed down the PC version right away, but they definitely killed it.

At the end, Apple slashed the OSX version to around $300-$400 before they stopped selling it altogether. The exact numbers are a little fuzzy in my memory, but I remember thinking the way they did it wasn't very kind to people using their newly acquired software on a competing platform. Meanwhile, they're making tons of money off iTunes running on a competing OS.

3dworks
06-15-2012, 09:17 AM
of course i was not implying that nuke contains 'stolen' code from shake, or the other way round - most know the story of those 2 packages.

what i meant was that re-releasing shake as an app today would not make much sense, nuke being sort of a logical progression of what shake would have probably become one day if apple didn't stop development...

about the code, apple licensed it until a few years ago to their clients... probably they still have the rights. i wonder whatever happened to that codenamed 'phenomenon' project, though.

MentalFish
06-15-2012, 11:08 AM
Personally I am frustrated by the lack of updates to the Mac Pro and feel that there hasn't really been a good value for money solution since the 2008, 8 core machine came out. When I saw the lack of improvement in the current lineup as well, I was even more disappointed. It would have been better to not have the latest "update" and now it seems like Apple agrees with us that it wasn't really a new Mac Pro:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/12/apple-admits-new-mac-pro-isnt-all-that-new/

... but there still is hope:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/12/apple-spokesperson-confirms-new-mac-pro-and-imac-designs-likely-coming-in-2013/

DrStrik9
06-15-2012, 11:59 AM
The best thing about Mac is the OS. Apple has traditionally tied their OS to hardware components Apple can use exclusively, with profit being the primary motive. Their industrial designers are the best on the planet, imo. But some of the hardware in this scenario turns out to be second-rate, compared to what is on the leading edge in the PC world, such as Nvidia cards, etc. Having said that, MacPros have tended to last longer and be more trouble-free than other hardware, so it's a double-edged sword, so to speak.

I remember when they licensed the MacOS to third-party hardware developers, and Mac clones became far cheaper and widely available. But the third-party hardware was mostly third-rate, and the game was over in a few short years. Apple pulled this licensing, and fell back to making exclusive deals with component manufacturers, and producing its own hardware.

The early (pre-10) MacOS was terrible, really. But OSX is simply great. I'm hoping to hold on with my now aging 2008 MacPro, until the next meaningful update, assuming Apple doesn't change its mind again.

calilifestyle
06-15-2012, 12:21 PM
The AMD 16 Core Processors are sweet. hehe i don't know about the whole apple thing.

MentalFish
06-15-2012, 12:31 PM
The AMD 16 Core Processors are sweet. hehe i don't know about the whole apple thing. and by adding them x 4 it maxes out the threads in LW at 64: http://www.titanuscomputers.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=A450 :D

I wouldn't mind seeing an AMD based 64 core Mac Pro when you see how a 48 core Opteron fare against 12 core Xeons: http://www.cbscores.com/

calilifestyle
06-15-2012, 12:38 PM
and by adding them x 4 it maxes out the threads in LW at 64: http://www.titanuscomputers.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=A450 :D

Dang i want it. The crazy thing is This Workstation is $4,927.00. That's really not that bad. then again that's just 4X 8 core set up

MentalFish
06-15-2012, 01:05 PM
Dang i want it. The crazy thing is This Workstation is $4,927.00. That's really not that bad. then again that's just 4X 8 core set up

2.1GHz, 64 cores, 64 GB RAM and GeForce GTX 680 2GB = $7.500
2.66GHz 16 cores Mac Pro with 64 GB RAM and Radeon HD 5870 1GB = 7.150

Now, if someone could buy these and do a render comparison, then two thumbs up from me. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

ianr
06-16-2012, 08:50 AM
Gentle-men,
Apple was NOT @ N.A.B. this year.

(the writing is on Wall & the FT)

robertoortiz
06-16-2012, 08:53 AM
Gentle-men,
Apple was NOT @ N.A.B. this year.

(the writing is on Wall & the FT)
Agreed.
And they have not been @ SIGGRAPH for almost a decade...
It amazes me how little they care about the content development market.

SBowie
06-16-2012, 09:31 AM
Apple was NOT @ N.A.B. this year.
(the writing is on Wall & the FT)Not to take a position on the conclusion you draw, but Apple hasn't been at NAB for a few years - not just this year. While that probably does say something about the relative importance of products in their strategic planning, I am inclined to agree with the general view that this has more to do with marketing strategies than anything.

The simple truth is, if (big if, I know) Apple wants to sell pro software and systems, they don't need NAB. They're big enough and smart enough to do it independently, where they control every aspect of the presentation.

sandman300
06-16-2012, 11:07 AM
I wonder if this will cause an upsurge of Hackintosh PCs? Apparently it's not that difficult to do. I did a google search and found quite a few entries.

If there was a reason I just couldn't live without some piece of software, that is what I would do.

Danner
06-17-2012, 09:53 AM
The meat of Apple's business is now mobile devices. But even if their top of the line machines are not directly putting money in their pockets I see it as a big mistake to abandon them. If their desktop machines start to suck, the whole Apple mistique will crumble and that could hurt sales down the line. I'ts Like a car manufacturer having sports cars in their line up, just to give the brand some prestige, even if it's not profitable to make them.

biliousfrog
06-17-2012, 01:22 PM
If their desktop machines start to suck, the whole Apple mistique will crumble and that could hurt sales down the line.

They've had numerous products that 'suck' compared to the competition but people continue to buy because of the logo and the elitist attitude associated with using them. The average consumer believes that they 'need' an Apple product because it is 'better'...they won't know why it's better, they might have half-heard something about it being better at playing music, better for editing photos, they never crash, they don't get viruses...

The only people that will know for sure whether an Apple product 'sucks' is someone that regularly uses both Apple and their competitors products...and that ain't the average Apple user.

Greenlaw
06-17-2012, 02:21 PM
I remember when they licensed the MacOS to third-party hardware developers, and Mac clones became far cheaper and widely available. But the third-party hardware was mostly third-rate, and the game was over in a few short years. Apple pulled this licensing...
I owned a couple of Power Computing brand Macintoshes, and at the time they were cheaper and more powerful than the Apple branded Macs. It was also pretty awesome that I could upgrade parts myself using off-the-shelf components to make them even more powerful because these machines were essentially modified PC's running Mac OS. I continued using those machines for production for several years before switching to Windows PCs. (Weak 3D support at the time (remember Quickdraw3D?) is what finally made me switch.)

IMO, that was the real reason the third party licensing program was killed--not because Power Computing was 'third rate' but because they became too competitive.

G.

Greenlaw
06-17-2012, 02:30 PM
Well, okay, maybe it was also because they were kinda ugly compared what genuine Macs looked like but that's beside the point. :)

Greenlaw
06-17-2012, 02:32 PM
Whoa! I just hit 3000 posts and didn't notice. But I'm still a 'newbie' compared to SBowie a few posts above. :)

lwanmtr
06-18-2012, 04:23 AM
Why do they not have a 17 inch option on the new Macbook Pro? And why does the Retina version look like a glorified Air (no dvd drive)? I have been looking at replacing my 2006 Macbook Pro..but a 15inch is too small.

ianr
06-18-2012, 08:30 AM
Dear Iwanmtr,
I am afraid according to WWDC2010 (mac-dev) they have dropped it.

Phil
06-18-2012, 09:36 AM
Why do they not have a 17 inch option on the new Macbook Pro? And why does the Retina version look like a glorified Air (no dvd drive)? I have been looking at replacing my 2006 Macbook Pro..but a 15inch is too small.

The no DVD drive actually makes a lot of sense in many cases. The OS no longer comes on optical media, and I've had almost all internal optical drives fail over time due to dust build-up (independently of use, it seems). Rather than have that space used by something that is only used rarely (by many), it makes sense to either use it for additional storage capacity or performance (e.g. RAID or a second unit), or to extend battery life. External drives are extremely cheap, easily replaced and readily available.

I've made do with a 15" screen for every laptop I've had since 2006 (when I picked up my first Mac - the late 2006 MBP). The 17" was simply too unwieldy, and the 1680x1050 screen on the 2010 and 2011 MacBook Pros has been perfectly usable. I'm extremely curious about how well the GPU handles the enormous resolution on the Retina machines. I'm slightly surprised that the GPU memory wasn't bumped to at least 2 GB as well.

Phil
06-18-2012, 09:55 AM
They've had numerous products that 'suck' compared to the competition but people continue to buy because of the logo and the elitist attitude associated with using them. The average consumer believes that they 'need' an Apple product because it is 'better'...they won't know why it's better, they might have half-heard something about it being better at playing music, better for editing photos, they never crash, they don't get viruses...

The only people that will know for sure whether an Apple product 'sucks' is someone that regularly uses both Apple and their competitors products...and that ain't the average Apple user.

Really? I've various colleagues, friends and family who have gone the Mac route without any tribal or fashion-led incentive. Rather, they've simply been impressed by the form and function. Two of these folks are highly educated, highly successful engineering managers from intel and Microsoft - both having retired early. The ex-Microsoft guy was originally highly dismissive of Apple hardware and concerned about how to integrate such devices into his Windows-centric set-up. The revelation, for him, came with an iPad 2. That impressed him so much that he's since picked up an iPhone 4s (which replaced a Windows smartphone) and an Apple TV. He's about as far removed from an Apple fan as you could expect and yet the hardware and user experience completely won him over.

All companies have products that disappoint (including our own dear NewTek), but failure is supposed to be a learning experience. I'm not sure what lessons MS has learnt when looking at Windows 8, though. It seems like a lot of the good work in UI and polish in Windows 7 just got thrown out for no good reason. Since Apple have separate interfaces in touch vs computer, taking that lesson on board would have been a good thing. :)

Rayek
06-18-2012, 01:01 PM
Why do they not have a 17 inch option on the new Macbook Pro? And why does the Retina version look like a glorified Air (no dvd drive)? I have been looking at replacing my 2006 Macbook Pro..but a 15inch is too small.

Simple: a 17" retina screen was probably not available and/or technically and cost-wise not an option yet. So, instead of stating the obvious (technical) reasons behind this decision, Apple's marketing just decided to kill the 17". Besides, their statistics probably also showed that the 17" version did not sell as well as the 15" and smaller models.

Hopefully not forever, though, and the 17" will make a comeback some day - this plays right into the hands of those who are steadily becoming more and more convinced (or are already convinced) that Apple is no longer an alternative for professional creatives.

lwanmtr
06-18-2012, 02:12 PM
I dont find the 17" too unwieldy at all. I love the real estate both on screen and around the keyboard.

Its rather shortsighted to removed the optical drive just because the os doesnt come on it...There are other apps beside the os that need a dvd.....not to mention if you want to play dvd's...lol.

joelaff
06-18-2012, 02:18 PM
Apple doesn't give a hoot about pro users, hasn't for many years. Apple is a consumer device company through and through...

Phil
06-18-2012, 04:07 PM
I dont find the 17" too unwieldy at all. I love the real estate both on screen and around the keyboard.

Its rather shortsighted to removed the optical drive just because the os doesnt come on it...There are other apps beside the os that need a dvd.....not to mention if you want to play dvd's...lol.

As I mentioned, that's not the only reason that one could find to remove the drive : the space for the drive is significant - volume that can be turned over to the battery capacity, boosting portable lifetime.

Anyone can pick up an external USB DVD drive very simply, cheaply and easily (and it's a darn sight easier, and much cheaper, to replace the external unit when it dies than to replace the internal unit).

I thought about this a lot because my initial reaction was the same as yours. However, I realized that I have not used an optical drive in many months (last time was to rip a DVD series for the media server), and on most of the machines here that runs into years. In fact, just testing them today I discovered that all but one internal drive (on 2010 MacBook Pro) is completely dead, so external units would be needed. Most software now comes as download-only; movies increasingly get viewed via netflix or iTunes. I know that I haven't bought a music CD in several years. It seems like the same kind of transition as was forced for the floppy disk when Apple dumped them.

I'm much more unhappy about the soldered memory. That's a very regrettable feature of a Pro machine. Bad memory happens. Being able to replace it quickly and efficiently is important, but the new Retina MBP makes that impossible.

lwanmtr
06-18-2012, 04:34 PM
I do see your point...however, if you use bootcamp, you kind of need the optical drive, since there is no way (that I know of) to run the winblows installer from a hard drive. A usb optical is easier to replace, but then you usually need an external power supply for that....so its kind of removing the portability factor a little. I do admit I do not use the optical much when I'm out, though.

The soldered memory is very much a bad choice...means you have to replace the whole machine if it goes bad....and if it dies after the apple care runs out, you're pretty much screwed. even the non-retina macbook pro I think is using the soldered memory (i could be wrong).

On the Mac Pro, my biggest issue is that ATI is the only option available for graphics.

The lack of Blue-ray has been a long time complaint too....Specially with DVD Studio Pro...you can build, but not burn.....lol.

Im imagining that some of these new flubs by Apple would be frowned upon by Steve Jobs....

Phil
06-18-2012, 05:03 PM
I do see your point...however, if you use bootcamp, you kind of need the optical drive, since there is no way (that I know of) to run the winblows installer from a hard drive. A usb optical is easier to replace, but then you usually need an external power supply for that....so its kind of removing the portability factor a little. I do admit I do not use the optical much when I'm out, though.

I have two external burners (one is the internal drive from my 2011 MBP transplanted into a case [my wife now uses the 2010 MBP], the other is an off-the-shelf unit) and both use Y-connectors to draw enough power from the USB ports. Neither mandate a power brick, but Y-connectors are tricky to find (for me, at least)

Regarding Windows, at least Windows 7 allows itself to be booted and installed from a USB flash disk : http://arstechnica.com/business/2009/12/the-usb-flash-drive/


The soldered memory is very much a bad choice...means you have to replace the whole machine if it goes bad....and if it dies after the apple care runs out, you're pretty much screwed. even the non-retina macbook pro I think is using the soldered memory (i could be wrong).

On the Mac Pro, my biggest issue is that ATI is the only option available for graphics.

The 6750m in my 2011 MBP surprised me with its power. I don't hold any particular attachment to either, and OS X driver support isn't too shabby (Cinebench testing showed equivalent performance in both Windows 7 and OS X for both the 2010 and 2011 MBP). My main concern is the apparent stingy memory on the card for such a high resolution display.


The lack of Blue-ray has been a long time complaint too....Specially with DVD Studio Pro...you can build, but not burn.....lol.

Im imagining that some of these new flubs by Apple would be frowned upon by Steve Jobs....

I've no need for a Blu-ray drive or burner, and suspect the aftermarket can supply them more effectively. Steve wasn't too happy about the royalty requirements, if I remember correctly.

I'm also not yet sure I'd call these recent changes 'flubs'. FCPX was a flub. Killing Shake was regrettable. Soldering memory is a really unfortunate choice, but I do at least understand the reasons (even if I would prefer them to have scarified a little in this respect). Given Steve's desire to prevent users fiddling with their devices (see the difference between iPad 1 and iPad 2 in terms of repairability sacrified for form and function), I don't see him getting too upset about anything in the Retina MBP, and fully expect that it was pretty much defined before he expired.

I write as someone who just had to spend 300 USD to get his scratched 2011 MBP LCD replaced because the repair was outside my ability.... iResQ are certainly fast and friendly, in case anyone needs something like this in the future.

lwanmtr
06-18-2012, 05:25 PM
Didnt know win7 could boot from a flash drive...but my mbp has winxp..have win7 on my macpro.

The ati in my macbook pro has survived quite alot for being 6 years old and onlt 256mb...lol. But on the Mac Pro I always had issues with ati cards, so I went with nvidia when i bought this one. It performs well, but it is showing its age.

fcpx was indeed a big one...as well as killing shake.

Hopefully, they use good memory and test thoouroughly or I can see alot of machines coming to reapirs for a bad memory chip...which in the long run will cost them more than making them simms.

The graphics memory should be higher on the retina to be sure. At least on the non-retina they still offer a 1gb graphics memory

biliousfrog
06-19-2012, 02:24 AM
...Two of these folks are highly educated, highly successful engineering managers from intel and Microsoft - both having retired early...

There are a lot of well educated and intelligent people using Apple products, I wasn't saying anything contrary to that, it's just that the majority of their users are just regular consumers that buy the products under the assumption that they are better (because of the marketing)...which is a vague term and not necessarily true unless you have an understanding of how it is better than what.

HenrikSkoglund
06-19-2012, 12:42 PM
I think their development goes the right way in almost every direction. And I've always been a PC nerd before, though starting to like Apple more and more. The new macbook pro seems very nice and I would like to find out if anyone tried Win 7 on it yet?

Only negative thing about it is price... It's quite high for me.

3dworks
06-19-2012, 02:07 PM
There are a lot of well educated and intelligent people using Apple products, I wasn't saying anything contrary to that, it's just that the majority of their users are just regular consumers that buy the products under the assumption that they are better (because of the marketing)...which is a vague term and not necessarily true unless you have an understanding of how it is better than what.

so what is your point then? to say that apple has an excellent marketing? or that people are stupid? :D

maybe one thing to keep in mind is that technical specs are not everything to make a product a good one. factors like functionality, sustainability and also simple durability are as important as top specs, maybe even more. tech specs are changing every week, but in the end it's a difference if a product like a laptop will be your tool for just 2, 3 years or 10. usually mac users tend to use their products for a longer time frame, there must be a reason...

writing this on a nearly 10 year old powerbook G4 ;)

biliousfrog
06-19-2012, 03:15 PM
so what is your point then? to say that apple has an excellent marketing? or that people are stupid? :D


Neither, it was a follow-on post regarding the thread topic of Apple dropping development of professional products.

JonW
06-19-2012, 04:14 PM
usually mac users tend to use their products for a longer time frame, there must be a reason...

writing this on a nearly 10 year old powerbook G4 ;)

I still use my Mac Dual 533 MHz occasionally, & very occasionally use my G3 500 MHz ibook, all have new hard drives at some stage/s. I like to hang on to my computers as long as possible. But I will buy a new computer/s without hesitation if I need one for a particular task.

I do believe long gone are the days that a Mac is the appropriate tool for high end work. For a very long time now you could not buy a box with the very top end CPUs, & they have not had a single CPU box with a high end or even reasonably high end CPU without a built in screen.

One has a choice, buy a nice looking Mac with a third rate CPU, or buy a third rate looking PC with a nicely speced CPU.

I've got my Mac Mini for most work (& didn't want a build in screen). But use PCs where I wanted fast CPUs & lots of them.

wesleycorgi
06-22-2012, 07:06 AM
Really? I've various colleagues, friends and family who have gone the Mac route without any tribal or fashion-led incentive. Rather, they've simply been impressed by the form and function.
I concur. I work in the data communications industry (where about 50% of our company are network engineers/developers/coders), where 5 years ago only the 2 or 3 graphic designers in our company had Macs. Fast forward to two years ago, about 50% of our Product Management rejected the company issued HPs and purchased their own MacBooks.

They were tired of viruses, crashes, constant updates, load up times, etc. --- they just wanted to work and not fight with their OS.

Last year, a lot of our engineers also started rejecting their company-issued HP laptops and bought Macs on their own dime.

Finally this year, our IT department is offering MacBooks to senior directors. What they found is that this unofficial migration to Macs at our company had greatly reduced their support load (probably because they have taken the stance "we don't support Macs, you're on your own.")

When I visit Cisco (one of the biggest companies in the world), whether it's San Jose, RTP, Boxboro, or Ottawa, I see about 50/50 of the laptops are Macs (if not more). The engineers there came to the same conclusion: more work and productivity than fighting the OS. Much like my company, they have little or no IT support for their Macs. But they don't need it because Apple has taken care a lot of the BS that Windows users go through.

For example, I have two company issued PC laptops. Both of them use different built-in WiFi cards/software. So each access a wireless network in their own 1990's backward's way. Depending on the hotel or site I'm at, I'm fighting just to get online. With my MacBook, I select the network and I'm good to go.

wesleycorgi
06-22-2012, 07:15 AM
I dont find the 17" too unwieldy at all. I love the real estate both on screen and around the keyboard.
I love my 17". But I'm ready for 15" again. I travel about 40% of the time. It's great in the office or in the hotel room, especially when working on video or LW. But it's a PITA everywhere else: taking it in and out for security checks, can't use it during most flights (even if the guy in front me doesn't recline), etc. Even though it's relatively light compared to previous laptops I've had, I do a lot of walking through airports, convention centers, etc. I notice the big difference when I'm hauling my 17" MB Pro vs. my plastic 15" Asus.

cresshead
06-22-2012, 07:22 AM
just back from emptying my bank balance!


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/246405_10150975139082871_568285620_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/181178_10150975158032871_266835029_n.jpg

3dworks
06-22-2012, 12:38 PM
hehe, love your icat :) does he like magic mouses? :D

warmiak
06-22-2012, 12:46 PM
I concur. I work in the data communications industry (where about 50% of our company are network engineers/developers/coders), where 5 years ago only the 2 or 3 graphic designers in our company had Macs. Fast forward to two years ago, about 50% of our Product Management rejected the company issued HPs and purchased their own MacBooks.


About half of developers where I work use MacBooks Pro ( including me)

This has more to do with the fact that OSX is a real Unix underneath and it is much easier to do non-Windows specific development than with the OSX itself.

As far as the OSX itself in term of UI and applications,personally I couldn't care less, it is somewhat primitive and sluggish compared to a decent Windows machine.

Everything I tried on it , including apps like Photoshop, Maya and Lightwave , not to mention games, always seems more sluggish and akward to use compared to Windows.

Brötje
06-25-2012, 05:15 AM
Personally, I would go for the Hackintosh option. I have heard many good things about it. More speed at 1/6th of the price.

3dworks
06-25-2012, 10:12 AM
Personally, I would go for the Hackintosh option. I have heard many good things about it. More speed at 1/6th of the price.

hmmm lets see, for 166 EUR you get something comparable to an iMac 21" quad core?? show me :D

Brötje
06-25-2012, 10:17 AM
Oh you rascal! :D

I was talking about the Mac Pro series. The ones that were over 10.000 euros.

MentalFish
06-26-2012, 01:30 PM
Oh you rascal! :D

I was talking about the Mac Pro series. The ones that were over 10.000 euros.

Then I'd like to see where I can get something similar for 1/6th of the price of a fully specced 12 core Mac Pro.

I think the Mac Pro in its current state is not very interesting, and a bit overpriced, but its a myth that it is insanely expensive compared to others. As soon as you add multi-core and multi-cpus to any workstation the price skyrockets. A two year old Mac might be 20-30% more expensive compared to a similarly specced PlastiBox™ when you only compare CPU/RAM specs. If you compare them while they are equally new, then its is hard to find any better deals.

3.0 GHz 12 Core Mac Pro with 64 GB RAM: 8150 USD (http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD771LL/A?)

2.9 GHz 12 Core HP with 64 GB RAM: 9000 USD (http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFrame.asp?page=config&ProductLineId=433&FamilyId=3551&BaseId=38347&oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=)

If you buy a 2 year old, non-updated Mac, for the price it had when it came out, then yes, you'll get a worse deal than buying from a Windows based supplier such as Dell/HP who updates their product lines more frequently.

If you buy a Mac when it is just released, you'll get just as good (if not better) a deal as any other hardware provider. My 2008 2.8 GHz 8-Core Mac Pro is still smokin fast and probably the best 3000 USD I have spent on a computer. If I ever buy another workstation it will most likely be a 16+ core Mac Pro, although I doubt I would need a new machine for many years to come ( Getting the new retina Macbook from my amazing employer :) )

Brötje
06-26-2012, 02:40 PM
Then I'd like to see where I can get something similar for 1/6th of the price of a fully specced 12 core Mac Pro.

http://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/build-a-hackintosh-mac-pro/

There are many stories like this on the net. You don't buy them as a unit. You build them.

lwanmtr
06-26-2012, 02:49 PM
Hmm...Looked at those Hackintosh options....great on pricing...until you put into consideration the lower number of cores....sure a quad core is nice, but I love my 8 cores.

Brötje
06-26-2012, 02:52 PM
Hmm...Looked at those Hackintosh options....great on pricing...until you put into consideration the lower number of cores....sure a quad core is nice, but I love my 8 cores.

You're right on the cores issue, my friend. I use a 24 core machine at work. I guess I'm spoiled in that manner.

lwanmtr
06-26-2012, 02:56 PM
I would love 24 cores....lol

Brötje
06-26-2012, 03:01 PM
I have been reading up on the whole cores thing...

A 16 core Hackintosh can be built for around +/- 5000 dollars.

http://tonymacx86.com/viewtopic.php?f=169&t=55963

lwanmtr
06-26-2012, 03:05 PM
looks like in the end after graphics card, etc, it'd be around 6k

Brötje
06-26-2012, 03:10 PM
Still a good price :)

Especially because mac doesn't offer a 16 core... yet :D

MentalFish
06-26-2012, 04:06 PM
It is ages since I dabbled in DIY computer configs, and I doubt I'll ever do it again, unless I get an itch to do so for the sake of it. The money I would save on going DIY would be lost in pure time and frustration to make it work as expected.

It's cool that people have found ways to get OSX running on DIY rigs though.

Also, I wonder what the prices are for the rigs found above and below the Mac Pro in fourth place on this list: http://www.cbscores.com/

Q for you Brötje: What did your 24 core monster cost? DIY or something one could throw money at to have delivered?

Brötje
06-26-2012, 04:13 PM
What did your 24 core monster cost? DIY or something one could throw money at to have delivered?

I have NO idea. I don't own one myself, I use one on the job. We make stereoscopic rides and such. All Lightwave, all the time.

I hope when it's finished we can show you guys some images.