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HolyMonkey-
06-11-2012, 07:21 AM
I'm trying to create a Galaxy using Alphaplanes. The reason for this is becuase I saw a video that was apparently a LW video of space, and it was amazing! The apparent technique was just a bunch of alpha planes to create the "depth" feeling.

I've tried all sorts of combinations in order to create a similar look, but you can tell its just an image mapped to planes any suggestions to get me on the right track? I dont need to stick strictly to alpha planes but it seems fast and sufficient rather than starting to mess with particles and try to recreate the galaxies in 3D.

SplineGod
06-11-2012, 10:09 PM
You might be able to do it using stacked polys that vibrate quickly and with motionblur turned on. Use a procedural texture with world coords if you use this method.
I would probably create a point cloud in modeler then apply HV sprites to that in layout.
Find a nice picture of a galaxy on google and apply that to your HV sprites in the color and size channels.

Jim M
06-12-2012, 05:09 AM
With the billboard method, make sure you can see why it isn't working how you want.
Using excellent resource imagery and good reference will REALLY make the difference.
If you have mediocre assets it's not going to work....

HolyMonkey-
06-12-2012, 06:48 AM
You might be able to do it using stacked polys that vibrate quickly and with motionblur turned on. Use a procedural texture with world coords if you use this method.
I would probably create a point cloud in modeler then apply HV sprites to that in layout.
Find a nice picture of a galaxy on google and apply that to your HV sprites in the color and size channels.

I've only worked with simple particles emitting stuff, which is mainly made in layout, so I have to say the creating point cloud in Modeller has confused me a bit, care to elaborate?

Jim M
06-12-2012, 07:12 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnDU7JJtVts

This one is nice using a combo of methods.

HolyMonkey-
06-12-2012, 07:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnDU7JJtVts

This one is nice using a combo of methods.

That's the video I was refering to in the beginning I think, or something similar atleast. Looks awesome =)

Jim M
06-12-2012, 07:31 AM
That's the video I was refering to in the beginning I think, or something similar atleast. Looks awesome =)

He briefly describes the technique in the info. I suspect its front projection maps locked to frames, projected onto particle clouds (approx. as SG initially suggested)

SplineGod
06-12-2012, 08:39 AM
Make points in modeler...using the spray tool or make objects with lots of points and then kill the polys leaving only the points. Save the points as you would any object, send to layout. Apply HVs to point cloud object. :)

prometheus
06-13-2012, 01:58 AM
well.. yeah point clouds might work good, you could also just simply use subpatch grid and control vertex/hv density with the geometry properties subpatch level, using the display level for working with vpr and render subpatch level for final lightwave render, apply image or procedurals on density or dissolv channel to cut the shape out similar to clouds, and use color channel too.

You can also make geometric shapes and fill them with points, that is a hidden feature introduced in Lightwave 11, and you wont find it untill you use the utilities/plugin tab...Itīs called fill solid, and you do not need any background layers, just create a cloud shape,sphere, elipsoid etc or use the pen tool to create the galaxy shape and use the solid fill tool, but be careful using freezed geometry from splines, it will freeze mostly.

combining hvīs with a volumetric center light would be nice I think.

Michael

HolyMonkey-
06-13-2012, 02:39 AM
I'll have to dig some into this a bit, thank you for your tips. =)

More ideas always appreciated!

prometheus
06-13-2012, 02:48 AM
I'll have to dig some into this a bit, thank you for your tips. =)

More ideas always appreciated!

Depends on exactly what youré after, Galaxy or nebula?
animated with galaxy rotational motion? or just camera motion.

simply real life/hubble shots should work with high res maps on polys or use hypervoxels, or combinations.

you can also use volumetric lights with textures only from where you can apply images or use mix with procedurals.

if you apply an image on a subpatch grid with hv vertices, you would want to set the object to 100% dissolve in render tab, since you only want the hv properties not the poly to render, however you might as well just use simple polys too wich would be more render efficient.

The issue and trick is to have it not look to flat.

Michael

prometheus
06-13-2012, 03:51 AM
got some interesting results with a grid plane with some divisions, and painting the main shape of the galaxy/nebula cluster with weight paint in modeler, then using array cloning a couple of times so you got a few layers of that, once in layout you have to activate the hv particle set particle weight in order to use weight map gradient, this will use the created weightmap as the map upon wich hv will be applied on only, so if you use several layers you get a more pronounced volume to the neb or galaxy custer.

Using weight maps and hv sprites this way, will give much smoother blend overall shape than just using point clouds or particles.

if it continuous to look promising I will post some images later this week.

Michael

HolyMonkey-
06-13-2012, 07:22 AM
got some interesting results with a grid plane with some divisions, and painting the main shape of the galaxy/nebula cluster with weight paint in modeler, then using array cloning a couple of times so you got a few layers of that, once in layout you have to activate the hv particle set particle weight in order to use weight map gradient, this will use the created weightmap as the map upon wich hv will be applied on only, so if you use several layers you get a more pronounced volume to the neb or galaxy custer.

Using weight maps and hv sprites this way, will give much smoother blend overall shape than just using point clouds or particles.

if it continuous to look promising I will post some images later this week.

Michael

Thanks I'll give it a go! =)

nce in layout you have to activate the hv particle set particle weight in order to use weight map gradient,

This step has me confused, I acitvated hv in effects menu and I cant locate anywhere to set it to "weight map" You mean add gradient in transparrancy under surface?

HolyMonkey-
06-13-2012, 07:52 AM
http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105042&stc=1&d=1339595674

:/

prometheus
06-13-2012, 09:09 AM
Thanks I'll give it a go! =)

nce in layout you have to activate the hv particle set particle weight in order to use weight map gradient,

This step has me confused, I acitvated hv in effects menu and I cant locate anywhere to set it to "weight map" You mean add gradient in transparrancy under surface?

youre using particles here for the image, wich might be the wrong approach.

the particle weight map activation can be activated only if you have painted a weight map on point cluster or on a subdivided polygrid, and you double click the hv particle under the objects deform tab, not through the hypervoxels tab.
Edit..first after that you set your density to particl weight.
You can also directly use a painted weight map and select points by influence map to cut out point directly, in such case you can get point ordered more even than just spraying a point cluster, this gives a smoother blend between voxels next to eachother.

I have to leave work and will be at home within one hour or so, then I might be able to show how.

Michael

prometheus
06-13-2012, 11:41 AM
hereīs where you activate use particle weight map.

double click on the hv particles, that will bring up the set particle weight, if you have painted one in modeler on the grid, in the hypervoxels tab you can then set up a gradient with input particle weight, this isnīt exactly related to particles, but rather the weight painted vertexes in modeler.

However, Im not sure this really will help you with that look you wanted really, this is an aproach that is more suitable for creating your own galaxy or nebula instead of mapping a hubble image on it.

If you do not know how to paint a weight map, I canīt show right now, so search around a little about that if needed.
You can either paint with airbrush mode or use textured point map to translate procedurals or images to the weight map.

I would suggest you try and mail the guy who did the nebula fly through and see if he can describe it a little more.

Michael

HolyMonkey-
06-13-2012, 01:36 PM
hereīs where you activate use particle weight map.

double click on the hv particles, that will bring up the set particle weight, if you have painted one in modeler on the grid, in the hypervoxels tab you can then set up a gradient with input particle weight, this isnīt exactly related to particles, but rather the weight painted vertexes in modeler.

However, Im not sure this really will help you with that look you wanted really, this is an aproach that is more suitable for creating your own galaxy or nebula instead of mapping a hubble image on it.

If you do not know how to paint a weight map, I canīt show right now, so search around a little about that if needed.
You can either paint with airbrush mode or use textured point map to translate procedurals or images to the weight map.

I would suggest you try and mail the guy who did the nebula fly through and see if he can describe it a little more.

Michael

Thank you for your help. =)

I figured out the weight map painting, I just had trouble making up the HV particle section, ill give it a shot tomorow. Cheers! Let me know if you can make any progress on this interesting techneque.

DrStrik9
06-13-2012, 02:11 PM
I did this one a few years back, in LW 8.5 I think.

http://youtu.be/z56KveybsN0

On each galaxy image, I just played with levels and masks in Photoshop, plus a little cloning, etc., to separate them into more than one layer, each mapped to a poly with the alpha channel used as transparency. For the stars I used the IFW2_Space texture, again using transparency for the entire poly except the stars. I think there were 10 polys of stars, great for fly-thru. No HV's, no particles. :)

If you don't have IFW2, I highly recommend it for stuff like this. Quick and easy, relatively speaking.

HolyMonkey-
06-14-2012, 03:04 AM
I did this one a few years back, in LW 8.5 I think.

http://youtu.be/z56KveybsN0

On each galaxy image, I just played with levels and masks in Photoshop, plus a little cloning, etc., to separate them into more than one layer, each mapped to a poly with the alpha channel used as transparency. For the stars I used the IFW2_Space texture, again using transparency for the entire poly except the stars. I think there were 10 polys of stars, great for fly-thru. No HV's, no particles. :)

If you don't have IFW2, I highly recommend it for stuff like this. Quick and easy, relatively speaking.

Awesome! Exactly what I was looking for but!!! I have a question.

Your galaxy, Is it a photoshop image with alpha applied to a single plane? Your galaxy looks like it has depth, I tried this effect at first with an image mapped to a plane and transparrancy but it just looked flat.

What tools did you use to create the alpha? Just a soft brush and paint white or a nice little trick? Very well done!

prometheus
06-14-2012, 03:09 AM
I did this one a few years back, in LW 8.5 I think.

http://youtu.be/z56KveybsN0

On each galaxy image, I just played with levels and masks in Photoshop, plus a little cloning, etc., to separate them into more than one layer, each mapped to a poly with the alpha channel used as transparency. For the stars I used the IFW2_Space texture, again using transparency for the entire poly except the stars. I think there were 10 polys of stars, great for fly-thru. No HV's, no particles. :)

If you don't have IFW2, I highly recommend it for stuff like this. Quick and easy, relatively speaking.


Looking great, but I think it might loose sense of depth once you fly to close or pass by through it, the clips here are cut off before that, so you canīt get a perception on how that would look.

Michael

HolyMonkey-
06-14-2012, 04:10 AM
Looking great, but I think it might loose sense of depth once you fly to close or pass by through it, the clips here are cut off before that, so you canīt get a perception on how that would look.

Michael

Think you'll have time to develop your idea some more? It looks very promising. Would be nice to create and controll your own galaxies.

prometheus
06-14-2012, 04:25 AM
Think you'll have time to develop your idea some more? It looks very promising. Would be nice to create and controll your own galaxies.

Dont think I will get much time thou, I had plans ages ago to work out videotutorials with volumetric lights and hypervoxels, but always something getting in the way, and now my workstation is down due to faulty harddrive or operative system, have to fix that, otherwise I can only work on laptop and I havenīt installed any recording software and it wouldnīt be good either.
volumetric light nebulas, some lensflares, some other hv sprites and few hv volumetric...

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92427&d=1296592691

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92386&d=1296504706

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90172&d=1290343671

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90171&d=1290343651

using weightmaps or point clouds Is a little different, and I need some more test to see if it might be fruitful.

Other techniques is to use fog, and use backdrop color, in conjuction with textured environments an procedurals.
Real photo on polys are of course most realistic but needs some multiplane faking perhaps.

Dave Jerrard is the one lightwave guy actually doing work for a tv channel featuring the art of hubble, but he used procedural texturing on different polyshapes.

Ps...one of the most coolest thing for nebulas would be if turbulenceFD could save out and reuse static simulations, and it would also need a better color density gradient to use on smoke, similar to hypervoxels,
I havenīt got that to work properly.

Michael

3DGFXStudios
06-14-2012, 04:29 AM
Here some cool NASA image material. Maybe handy for reference.

http://www.nasaimages.org/luna/servlet/view/search?b1=Search&q=galaxy+or+constellation+or+hubble+or+spitzer&pgs=50&res=1&cic=nasaNAS~10~10,nasaNAS~12~12,nasaNAS~13~13,nasa NAS~16~16,nasaNAS~20~20,nasaNAS~22~22,nasaNAS~2~2, nasaNAS~4~4,nasaNAS~5~5,nasaNAS~6~6,nasaNAS~7~7,na saNAS~8~8,nasaNAS~9~9,NSVS~3~3,NVA2~13~13,NVA2~14~ 14,NVA2~15~15,NVA2~1~1,NVA2~4~4,NVA2~8~8,NVA2~9~9, NVA2~16~16,NVA2~17~17,NVA2~18~18,NVA2~19~19,NVA2~2 0~20,NVA2~21~21,NVA2~22~22,NVA2~23~23,NVA2~25~25,N VA2~26~26,NVA2~24~24,NVA2~27~27,NVA2~28~28,NVA2~29 ~29,NVA2~30~30,NVA2~31~31,NVA2~32~32,NVA2~33~33,NV A2~34~34,NVA2~35~35,NVA2~36~36,NVA2~37~37,NVA2~38~ 38,NVA2~39~39,NVA2~40~40,NVA2~41~41,NVA2~42~42,NVA 2~43~43,NVA2~44~44,NVA2~45~45,NVA2~46~46,NVA2~47~4 7,NVA2~48~48,NVA2~49~49,NVA2~50~50,NVA2~51~51,NVA2 ~52~52,NVA2~53~53,NVA2~54~54,NVA2~55~55,NVA2~56~56 ,NVA2~57~57

HolyMonkey-
06-14-2012, 08:32 AM
Here some cool NASA image material. Maybe handy for reference.

http://www.nasaimages.org/luna/servlet/view/search?b1=Search&q=galaxy+or+constellation+or+hubble+or+spitzer&pgs=50&res=1&cic=nasaNAS~10~10,nasaNAS~12~12,nasaNAS~13~13,nasa NAS~16~16,nasaNAS~20~20,nasaNAS~22~22,nasaNAS~2~2, nasaNAS~4~4,nasaNAS~5~5,nasaNAS~6~6,nasaNAS~7~7,na saNAS~8~8,nasaNAS~9~9,NSVS~3~3,NVA2~13~13,NVA2~14~ 14,NVA2~15~15,NVA2~1~1,NVA2~4~4,NVA2~8~8,NVA2~9~9, NVA2~16~16,NVA2~17~17,NVA2~18~18,NVA2~19~19,NVA2~2 0~20,NVA2~21~21,NVA2~22~22,NVA2~23~23,NVA2~25~25,N VA2~26~26,NVA2~24~24,NVA2~27~27,NVA2~28~28,NVA2~29 ~29,NVA2~30~30,NVA2~31~31,NVA2~32~32,NVA2~33~33,NV A2~34~34,NVA2~35~35,NVA2~36~36,NVA2~37~37,NVA2~38~ 38,NVA2~39~39,NVA2~40~40,NVA2~41~41,NVA2~42~42,NVA 2~43~43,NVA2~44~44,NVA2~45~45,NVA2~46~46,NVA2~47~4 7,NVA2~48~48,NVA2~49~49,NVA2~50~50,NVA2~51~51,NVA2 ~52~52,NVA2~53~53,NVA2~54~54,NVA2~55~55,NVA2~56~56 ,NVA2~57~57

Awesome, thanks! =)

DrStrik9
06-14-2012, 11:20 AM
Awesome! Exactly what I was looking for but!!! I have a question.

Your galaxy, Is it a photoshop image with alpha applied to a single plane? Your galaxy looks like it has depth, I tried this effect at first with an image mapped to a plane and transparrancy but it just looked flat.

What tools did you use to create the alpha? Just a soft brush and paint white or a nice little trick? Very well done!

It's been quite a long time since I did that galaxy experiment, but generally I would take the original NASA galaxy photo, remove any extraneous stars around the central galaxy, increase brightness and color saturation using adjustment layers, then create the transparency layer based on the luminosity of the original photo, painting or masking out things I didn't want. (It's really almost an illustration project.) I did this using selections and selection adjustments (so the "color" is larger than the mask, to avoid outlines around the masked areas). After creating the transparency layer, the color image might also include painting brighter colors where they were originally dim in some cases. Of course you don't see these in the final because of the transparency layer.

The hardest part to describe is the process I used to create two or more layers from the same original image with corresponding transparency layer, for depth, each mapped to a poly. This takes a different course with each original, but probably includes deciding which elements go on which layer, for best depth effect. It certainly includes a lot of cloning and "creative license" with the original.

Coming originally from a design background, I have a lot more experience using Photoshop than I do using LW. :)

DrStrik9
06-14-2012, 11:34 AM
Looking great, but I think it might loose sense of depth once you fly to close or pass by through it, the clips here are cut off before that, so you canīt get a perception on how that would look.

Michael

Yes, this particular method isn't really much good for flying too close to the photos. :) Most galaxy shots are not high enough res to pull this off. In fact, at the time, most of the available galaxy photos had obviously already been highly processed. (My eye is just too sensitive to resolution-limit artifacts.) But maybe I'll try it one of these days, if I can find photos with high enough res. I haven't even looked for quite awhile, but I know there are new space images being generated all the time.

One of the things that helps depth illusion considerably are the 10 transparency polys with IFW2 stars, and the use of a very large "space sphere," with the background mapped to it. But these are only good for approaching the galaxy, not flying through it.

I imagine that if I did find photos of sufficient res, it would take more than two or three layers, and probably a few other tricks as well to pull it off.

HolyMonkey-
06-15-2012, 12:52 AM
Thank you, the highrez image and the extracting alpha tip worked great. All I did was map it to a curved polyplane ( and it gave some depth, upclose gives it away pretty easily, but from distance it looks pretty sweet! Thanks! =)