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Darth Mole
05-30-2012, 06:12 AM
/adopts Hannibal Lecter voice

http://www.isotropix.com/products.html

This look amazing - and it supports LW objects, scene, motion and deformation. It was basically built to work with LW! (Also has GoZ and Alembic).

Very, very excited about this. Watch this vid:

http://www.isotropix.com/products.html#!videos/0/

geo_n
05-30-2012, 06:16 AM
Out of closed beta again. Its taking its time for sure meanwhile other software are already there.
The built in compositor should be cool though.

Lewis
05-30-2012, 08:05 AM
So open beta is starting again?' I've used it some time ago while it was in at first Beta and some things very impressive but others not polished or missing. This video demo now looks damn impressive, especially render/Gi quality and painting instances with mouse at interface on the fly.

Darth Mole
05-30-2012, 10:21 AM
I suspect the term 'coming out of beta' is a clue that previous versions weren't finished. I don't know what apps geo_n is referring to but this looks bloody impressive. I thought the LW community would be more excited by its almost exclusive support. Obviously not.

Lewis
05-30-2012, 10:30 AM
I suspect the term 'coming out of beta' is a clue that previous versions weren't finished. I don't know what apps geo_n is referring to but this looks bloody impressive. I thought the LW community would be more excited by its almost exclusive support. Obviously not.

Clarisse is "here" for about 2+ years by now. So community is heard about it by now but it wasn't been ready. Now, hmm it looks much more ready. Sadly i still don't see any modeling part.

Darth Mole
05-30-2012, 11:29 AM
No, it's not a modeller - there are plenty of modellers out there! It's a like a stage on which to add your actors and props and backdrops - and then add special effects on top. Looks cool.

Lewis
05-30-2012, 11:32 AM
No, it's not a modeller - there are plenty of modellers out there! It's a like a stage on which to add your actors and props and backdrops - and then add special effects on top. Looks cool.

Yes i know (like i said i've used to beta test it some time back) i just say i'm surprised that even now it' still not modeling. i thought they would add it (modeling module) later :).

rcallicotte
05-30-2012, 12:02 PM
It does look exciting, but I'm curious to see what Newtek does with the next version of LW. Compositing...animation...what? I think it could possibly be anything.

I need more information and maybe to see Clarisse used more to know what the end result could be.

probiner
05-30-2012, 12:35 PM
I don't know about price tag of full range of workflow capabilities. But i'll say that if this is what it says, along Modo 601 might be another crawl into LW's position.
Since it seems to focus on the areas where LW has been making its bets lately and where Modo is not there yet.
Ppl did use to come to LW only for Fprime and the Renderer right? Add the powerful compositing over that and :O

Now I wonder how it accomplishes many of those features using precisely LWOs and LWSs...

geo_n
05-30-2012, 02:01 PM
I suspect the term 'coming out of beta' is a clue that previous versions weren't finished. I don't know what apps geo_n is referring to but this looks bloody impressive. I thought the LW community would be more excited by its almost exclusive support. Obviously not.

Its been developed sometime ago and was even suspected to be based on nexus, luxology tech. To me its like vue or even layout, without the modeller. Limited content creation capabilities. Animation will be fed thru this program from other software, always problematic.

DigitalSorcery8
05-30-2012, 03:16 PM
I remember when this was introduced a couple of years ago - very promising then and still is. Looks like a more powerful Layout to me.

I wonder how much it will cost? Under $2k? Less than LW? Three to four digits encompasses a WIDE range of pricing. :)

Cageman
05-31-2012, 05:51 AM
Animation will be fed thru this program from other software, always problematic.

I dissagree with you on that point very strongly. We've been doing tons of character stuff lately in MotionBuiler/Maya that was then fed through MDDs into LW for rendering. This workflow is extremely easy to setup, even for a project containing over 50 unique camera-shots, 6-7 unique environments, where some shots had up to 6-8 characters in view at the same time.

It is about designing the pipeline and maintaining a good folderstructure and naming-conventions. Once you have that in place + a couple of custom L-Scripts, you can work very fast.

geo_n
05-31-2012, 06:05 AM
I dissagree with you on that point very strongly. We've been doing tons of character stuff lately in MotionBuiler/Maya that was then fed through MDDs into LW for rendering. This workflow is extremely easy to setup, even for a project containing over 50 unique camera-shots, 6-7 unique environments, where some shots had up to 6-8 characters in view at the same time.

It is about designing the pipeline and maintaining a good folderstructure and naming-conventions. Once you have that in place + a couple of custom L-Scripts, you can work very fast.

We always disagree on that point because you use your pipeline and we have ours which is much simplified and streamlined, Max and vray. That's it. No added cost for motionbuilder, no lw, no maya. We had a maya user that had to switch to max. No hassle handling file conversion, mdd, multiple file iterations and asset management for each app, etc.
When the need comes use vue, realflow, etc but other than that we are ok with max and vray for now. :D

Cageman
05-31-2012, 09:33 AM
We always disagree on that point because you use your pipeline and we have ours which is much simplified and streamlined, Max and vray. That's it. No added cost for motionbuilder, no lw, no maya. We had a maya user that had to switch to max. No hassle handling file conversion, mdd, multiple file iterations and asset management for each app, etc.

From what I remember, you mentioned that you guys shaded and textured all your assets in all apps when you guys were trying out multi-app workflow, and, well.... that is the number one thing that we do not do at all; that would be extremely bad dublication of efforts.

The only management going on in Maya is facial animation of characters and camera, and scene-layout. Motionbuilder is where all the Mocap is tweaked, the only managemet done in 3DS Max is the effects. LW and Modo is where things actually were shaded, lit and rendered, and the only place where such things were managed.

As you can see, there is very little dublication of data between the applications, and since all of them can load/save LWOs and MDDs through PointOven (modo and LW do this natively though), the assets that are shared between the apps are all loaded from the same sources, so very little overhead in cross-application asset management.

The dublication, at tops, would be when we throw in some diffuse textures in OGL in Maya or Motionbuilder for animators to see something rather than lambert-shaded grey mesh. Once they are done, they select the mesh, the approriate folder and output an MDD and then they re-init the specific character from the renderfarm controller and some minutes later they see the rendered character that they tweaked the animation for.

Dividing things up like this is what I ment with a designed pipeline; each app does what we can do good with it without unnecessary dublication of assets. :)

geo_n
05-31-2012, 09:58 AM
From what I remember, you mentioned that you guys shaded and textured all your assets in all apps when you guys were trying out multi-app workflow, and, well.... that is the number one thing that we do not do at all; that would be extremely bad dublication of efforts.

Dividing things up like this is what I ment with a designed pipeline; each app does what we can do good with it without unnecessary dublication of assets. :)

Yes we did and for that reason the TD's decided enough of this crap. Pick a software that's well rounded, fast and can do most things from pachinco game cinematics, tvc, viz, character and fast mocap workflow. Too bad it wasn't xsi.
What happens when you're already deep in the project and rendering the mdd from maya,etc and you notice that there's some anomalies for a character that was not visible before but is visible now? Or even a client change order. Since you created the asset somewhere else I assume in your case you would go back again to modo, modeller to change it and redo the mdd baking again for all the affected cuts then import in maya again. Or even dealing with mocap you would go back to motionbuilder again to edit mocap then import that to lw again? MB is not cheap btw to be a logical companion to lw. The cost of both mb plus lw is same to other appz.
What's offered by clarisse is the same import assets from another app and assumes the assets are final. It never is.

djwaterman
06-01-2012, 05:56 AM
I confess I never heard or seen this Clarisse and it looks interesting. I'd want to see some dazzling real renders before I'd consider it further, of real things not space ships. But it does seem quite fantastic, the work flow is alien to me. The website is cool.

skype6
06-01-2012, 08:02 AM
I agree, the website is good! Until it comes out trial version or something that can be tried, all of this means nothing. But I admit, it looks realy interesting...

Captain Obvious
06-01-2012, 10:39 AM
We always disagree on that point because you use your pipeline and we have ours which is much simplified and streamlined, Max and vray. That's it. No added cost for motionbuilder, no lw, no maya. We had a maya user that had to switch to max. No hassle handling file conversion, mdd, multiple file iterations and asset management for each app, etc.
When the need comes use vue, realflow, etc but other than that we are ok with max and vray for now. :D
I'd rather pay for both Maya and Lightwave than use Max. Which is ironic, since I use Max every day. :(

geo_n
06-01-2012, 08:33 PM
I'd rather pay for both Maya and Lightwave than use Max. Which is ironic, since I use Max every day. :(

Ofcourse to each his own. If max is good enough for Blur for the past 2 decades its good enough for majority of companies out there.
I'd rather use xsi, too. But the artists here prefer max over maya. The plugins make it one push button do magic sometimes. Without plugins like rayfire, fumefx, vray, etc, it would be weaker. Mocap is a breeze and we get bips from a professional company that is just a click away to use in max. IPIsoft exports bips as well its easy to use with max. Why buy motionbuilder? Its too expensive imho.

Philbert
06-03-2012, 12:13 PM
I saw something about Clarisse the other day and looked at it again. It doesn't look like they changed much feature wise. As far as I can tell it's still missing modeling, rigging, character animation, particles, volumetrics, dynamics, and more. Yet they still want to charge the same prices as "popular high end 3D software".

Cageman
06-03-2012, 04:24 PM
Ofcourse to each his own. If max is good enough for Blur for the past 2 decades its good enough for majority of companies out there.

Blur is mainly using Max for rendering though.. I know they have a pretty ellaborate character-pipeline within XSI (they did, after all, help develop Face Robot for XSI). I'm pretty sure they have other apps in their pipeline as well.

Just saying....

:)

Cageman
06-03-2012, 04:32 PM
What happens when you're already deep in the project and rendering the mdd from maya,etc and you notice that there's some anomalies for a character that was not visible before but is visible now? Or even a client change order. Since you created the asset somewhere else I assume in your case you would go back again to modo, modeller to change it and redo the mdd baking again for all the affected cuts then import in maya again. Or even dealing with mocap you would go back to motionbuilder again to edit mocap then import that to lw again? MB is not cheap btw to be a logical companion to lw. The cost of both mb plus lw is same to other appz.
What's offered by clarisse is the same import assets from another app and assumes the assets are final. It never is.

We've had all those situations, and it worked out... actually, we have doubled our productivity compared to when we shoehorned everything into a single app. I will not continue this discussion as it seems you are not that interrested in this sort of stuff.

And.. we do not need any TDs here, that is part of the plan regarding multiapp workflow.

:)

shrox
06-03-2012, 04:55 PM
Well, it looks great.

silviotoledo
06-03-2012, 07:03 PM
So, it is pure CPU no GPU?

Is the render unbiased?

silviotoledo
06-03-2012, 07:24 PM
It handles a quadrillion polys! This is really good! need to see more about render times :).

Is there any waver here doing beta test?

geo_n
06-03-2012, 10:40 PM
I saw something about Clarisse the other day and looked at it again. It doesn't look like they changed much feature wise. As far as I can tell it's still missing modeling, rigging, character animation, particles, volumetrics, dynamics, and more. Yet they still want to charge the same prices as "popular high end 3D software".

Yep so you will be using a multi app pipeline ;) for modelling, rigging, mocap animation. Model in modo, rig in maya, retarget mocap in motionbuilder, import again in maya, export all that out and render in lw. Maybe you need to maintain and track triple or quadriple the files and data. :D
A multi app pipeline to use realflow, houdini, etc, that's a multi app pipeline that's useful. :thumbsup:


Blur is mainly using Max for rendering though.. I know they have a pretty ellaborate character-pipeline within XSI (they did, after all, help develop Face Robot for XSI). I'm pretty sure they have other apps in their pipeline as well.

Just saying....

:)

They didn't use xsi for most of the decade they were making game cinematics. They upped the quality of the visuals and do use xsi for animation now but thats Blur. Don't think many studios are at that level or need to be. Maybe top 30 studios are doing that quality. Our studio is not in the top 30 or even 100. We're making probably ps2 quality visuals for pachinco games and 3dmax does it well.


We've had all those situations, and it worked out... actually, we have doubled our productivity compared to when we shoehorned everything into a single app. I will not continue this discussion as it seems you are not that interrested in this sort of stuff.

And.. we do not need any TDs here, that is part of the plan regarding multiapp workflow.

:)

You discussed it first :tongue:. Lw plus motionbuilder plus maya is super.. Its super expensive while most users here are trying to use lw only to keep cost down. In our case without good mocap in lw we had to go somewhere else without spending for motionbuilder. Too expensive.
TD's, Technical Supervisor, Someone has to be the lead tech in a project. It can't be everyone leading. :)

Philbert
06-03-2012, 10:46 PM
Yep so you will be using a multi app pipeline ;) for modelling, rigging, mocap animation. Model in modo, rig in maya, retarget mocap in motionbuilder, import again in maya, export all that out and render in lw. Maybe you need to maintain and track triple or quadriple the files and data. :D
A multi app pipeline to use realflow, houdini, etc, that's a multi app pipeline that's useful. :thumbsup:

Why would I use all of those? I only need 2, 3 maybe. My point was that they are charging as much as other apps but including much less.

geo_n
06-03-2012, 10:48 PM
Why wold I use all of those? I only need 2, 3 maybe. My point was that they are charging as much as other apps but including much less.

I'm trying to be sarcastic there.:D
I don't know about clarisse price but the company that made it apparently was a lightwave house so its no surprise they are making a replacement for layout to make it powerful. The file format support is mostly lightwave if you look at it.

Philbert
06-03-2012, 10:54 PM
That goes back to what I said. It's not even a replacement for Layout. It's like a renderer with some simple animation tools. They don't specify an exact price but they said over 4 digits and about the same as "popular 3D packages".

DigitalSorcery8
06-03-2012, 10:59 PM
In our case without good mocap in lw we had to go somewhere else without spending for motionbuilder. Too expensive.
Well yeah, Motion Builder IS expensive, but once you buy it you really don't HAVE to keep updating it. Not a great deal has changed from the original Kaydara version. Using LW and MB was relatively easy and if there are any changes, you just have to save out a new mdd from Motion Builder and that's that. That is probably the pipeline we'll end up using - hopefully. But even if you were to add Modo for modeling, it's still not any great problem in the pipeline. I can certainly appreciate using as few apps as possible in any pipeline - especially to keep costs down - but if you design your pipeline right hopefully you can keep file management down and still be efficient. At least I'm hoping that's how we'll be. :)

geo_n
06-03-2012, 11:21 PM
Well yeah, Motion Builder IS expensive, but once you buy it you really don't HAVE to keep updating it. Not a great deal has changed from the original Kaydara version. Using LW and MB was relatively easy and if there are any changes, you just have to save out a new mdd from Motion Builder and that's that. That is probably the pipeline we'll end up using - hopefully. But even if you were to add Modo for modeling, it's still not any great problem in the pipeline. I can certainly appreciate using as few apps as possible in any pipeline - especially to keep costs down - but if you design your pipeline right hopefully you can keep file management down and still be efficient. At least I'm hoping that's how we'll be. :)

Hopefully it works out for your upcoming project :thumbsup:
But as been posted, a change order, lets say a character design change, would mean going back to modo to remodel, reuv, retexture. Then import to maya and reskin or adjust the weights, Then propagate the changes to all scenes affected which I'm might referenced sometimes and sometimes not but still. Then do all the mdd baking for all that again to render in lw. Our technical directors had enough of that. But I really wished they picked xsi. Lol

DigitalSorcery8
06-03-2012, 11:56 PM
Hopefully it works out for your upcoming project :thumbsup:Thanks! Still don't have a budget yet. It's hurry up and wait.

But as been posted, a change order, lets say a character design change, would mean going back to modo to remodel, reuv, retexture. Then import to maya and reskin or adjust the weights, Then propagate the changes to all scenes affected which I'm might referenced sometimes and sometimes not but still. Then do all the mdd baking for all that again to render in lw. Our technical directors had enough of that. But I really wished they picked xsi. Lol
Yeah, I guess I'm thinking about my own situation. Once we've got the characters, there won't be ANYONE saying "oh, but can you change this..." so that won't end up being a problem. I could see where that may be a problem in a pipeline that required many apps. I'd love to use XSI and Arnold (or VRay) and that would add another application. Then again hopefully Point Oven would be a huge help. We will see.

geo_n
06-04-2012, 04:48 AM
Yeah these kinds of change order happens a lot and when we had a mixed pipeline for modelling, animation, etc, it was too messy. One artist gets sick or quit and someone has to take over. Many files in different applications per shot that the previous artist did and the next guy takes time to understand what's connected to what. Sometimes he doesn't get it at all because he didn't learn the other app. Lol!

bazsa73
06-04-2012, 07:05 AM
One of the crafts should have crashed into the sandstone and explode all automatically.
Impressive thing, kindof LW-Modo-AE combo.

silviotoledo
06-04-2012, 12:04 PM
So, may someone answer these questions?



1) Pure CPU? No GPU Render?

2) What's the render velocity in comparison to Lightwave?

3) SSS Shader?

4) Is the renderer unbiased ( physically correct )?

5) Network Multiprocessing?

OFF
07-05-2012, 09:00 AM
Clarisse Technical Preview#2: CPU powered 3D View
http://youtu.be/BUKGhov2CqQ

Clarisse iFX June 2012 build.
This Technical preview video is based upon the mini ride video tutorial series while focusing only on Clarisse's 3D View.
No GPU is actually used to display the 3D scene. Clarisse's 3D View easily displays billion of polygons in realtime using only CPUs.
More information available here: http://www.isotropix.com/clarisse_ifx_workflow.html

Follow us:
[email protected] http://www.facebook.com/pages/Isotropix/149946391751509
[email protected] https://twitter.com/Isotropix

Lewis
07-05-2012, 10:37 AM
Is there going to be OpenBeta for iFX like it was 2 years ago for normal version ? I don't see forums anymore and i was loged in back then when openbeta started in 2010 or so.

tyrot
07-05-2012, 06:58 PM
ok this is my next purchase..I cannot wait anymore...!

workflow = LW Modeler - Jimmy Rig - Clarisse :)

Thanks heavens that it has native LW support.

Eagle66
07-06-2012, 06:38 AM
The Clarisse Announcement makes massive waves in VFX Industry... :)

http://www.fxguide.com/featured/clarisse-ifx-a-new-approach-to-3d/

SIGGRAPH 2012 Clarisse Tech Talk: Wednesday August 8th @ 3:45 pm

OFF
07-23-2012, 07:12 PM
Clarisse iFX: The 3D View (live capture)
http://youtu.be/aZHOsOOR43w

http://www.isotropix.com/clarisse_ifx_workflow.html

Cageman
07-23-2012, 07:40 PM
Hopefully it works out for your upcoming project :thumbsup:
But as been posted, a change order, lets say a character design change, would mean going back to modo to remodel, reuv, retexture.

Not for us since we used ingame characters, that stuff was done outside of our controll.


Then import to maya and reskin or adjust the weights, Then propagate the changes to all scenes affected which I'm might referenced sometimes and sometimes not but still.

We have tools in Maya that copies weightmaps across different meshes. Takes about 2 minutes, often less time. In some rare cases we have to adjust the skinning, but in this project we didn't have to put in more than a couple of minutes / change.

Because we knew that there would be changes down the line, all rigs for each character were referenced, allways. This saved us about 2-4 weeks of work.


Then do all the mdd baking for all that again to render in lw. Our technical directors had enough of that. But I really wished they picked xsi. Lol

Since we were also working on facial animation where the rig was in Maya and not Motionbuilder, we did almost daily updates on pretty much all 57 shots for all characters regading MDD-data. It was a breeze to do it, becuse the pipeline was setup correctly.

:)