View Full Version : Horizontal gargabe with rapid vertical motion

05-29-2012, 08:36 AM
We have come up against a frustrating limitation -- 850 Extreme. When there is rapid vertical movement, like a bobbing head, jumping up and down or swinging a hammer, the Program Out creates serious horizontal breakup especially near the keying boundary like as if it was skipping frames -- but only when the camera feed is other than 100% sized -- like with even a tiny zoom back.

Apparently the processing of the key and the zoom at the same time with rapid vertical movement ends up jumping some frames???

Interesting that when the green screen camera is recorded iso, then inserted into the same virtual set as the source in the place of the live camera and then composited -- there is no horizontal breakup at all with the very same vertical action. We are guessing that this is because there is no zoom calculation going on as the camera's video playback is coming in at 100% sizing. This has become a "work-around" for editing, but does us no good for live broadcast.

Do we have a processing problem with our particular set-up -- or is this a common limitation?

05-29-2012, 08:39 AM
Is this on an external video monitor connected to the TriCaster program video out?

05-29-2012, 08:47 AM
I was going to ask the same question, Jon. You might see this on the Live Desktop monitors (which are really just previews, and can drop frames when necessary to makes sure actual output does not); but video transmitted on the output connectors should never do so.

05-29-2012, 09:15 AM
We are getting it on the live desktop monitors, on the output external monitor and in the editing room when looking at the recorded mp4 video program out.

05-29-2012, 11:04 AM
What frame rates are the camera and what frame rate is the session? I ask only because I have only once seen something like this but it was because the client thought they had the camera set to 1080 24PsF but it was actually 1080i. Once the camera was changed to output 24PsF, all was well.

05-29-2012, 01:17 PM
I believe that everything is set carefully to 24p -- but I will certainly double check that. thanks

05-29-2012, 01:56 PM
I don't think the camera puts out true 24 and a lot of times people confuse recording settings with video output settings. I bet you are outputting 1080i or 1080 PsF

05-29-2012, 02:24 PM
We are using an EX3 -- and you seem to have that listed as your specialty. So what does the EX3 export? The manual says: HQ mode:
1920 x 1080/59.94i/29.97P/23.98P -- and we are set to 23.98P.

But aside from that I will double check tomorrow that we are in fact set all around to the 24p.

05-29-2012, 02:43 PM
But via HD-SDI, EX3 is 720P, 1080i and 1080 PSF oh and I think 1080P. Change the output to 24PsF and the camera timing to 23.98 both in the camera settings.
Or change TriCaster camera input to 1080i.

05-29-2012, 03:43 PM
Thanks -- we'll test that tomorrow.

05-29-2012, 04:23 PM
From memory, I think you only need to change the camera genlock setting from 60i to 24PsF.

Take care,

Tim H.
05-29-2012, 09:39 PM
Hi Jon,

Good to see you back here.

Unless there has been a camera update, we found out the hard way during some green screen promos for Dreamworks' Monsters vs Aliens that while the Sony PMW-EX3 will record 1080/24p to internal SxS cards, it will NOT output the same 1080/24p signal via HD-SDI.

From memory, the manual suggested that it would work, but closer inspection (and calls to Sony) made it clear that the 1080/24p was for recording, not live output via HD-SDI.

Hope this helps! Keep in touch.


Tim Hedegaard
Virtualsets.com, Inc.
NewTek Authorized Reseller
Customized LiveSets for HD-series TriCasters

[email protected]

(323) 512-1542 voice

05-31-2012, 10:17 AM
Jose -- yes setting the video format to 24p and then setting also the genlock to 24PsF in the EX3 was the key and it works beautifully.

Now the comment from Tim about the EX3 not exporting 1080/24p through HD-SDI is bothersome. I will have to ask for a double check in editing, but it seems that we are getting mp4 videos in 24p out of the Tricaster program out with our 24p EX3 settings -- we just couldn't leave out that EX3 genlock setting

Just got word back from editing that the Program Out from the Tricaster 850 Extreme with an Sony EX3 24p camera SDI feed does in fact record as a ProRez 4.2.2 24p video.

Maybe it was that genlock setting that was upgraded from back when you did that demo?


05-31-2012, 10:26 AM
TriCaster does true 24P out if the session is set that way so any TriCaster recordings and it's output will be good.