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View Full Version : Dem Bones AGAIN...



Richard Hebert
05-20-2012, 11:29 PM
Hi Guys, this one is for you rigging gurus... I've got a stingray model (the fish not the car) that has bones to control the fins and the tail. I'd like to get the tail to move dynamically when the fish swims around. I've resorted to cloth effects but not getting quite what I'm after. How would you guys tackle the tail without resorting to hand animating the bones? Or, is this even possible without hand animation? Is it possible to apply dynamics to a bone chain without having to apply it to all the bones in an object? Thanks for any thoughts on this.

Richard

RebelHill
05-21-2012, 01:40 AM
Nope. No dynamics.

Its either hand animate or turn to some motion modifier/controller for a repeating, oscillating motion.

prometheus
05-21-2012, 06:27 AM
Nope. No dynamics.

Its either hand animate or turn to some motion modifier/controller for a repeating, oscillating motion.

Uhh..yeah that would be the best perhaps, but wouldn´t ik booster and dynamics work anyway, I think you could set wich bones to be influenced?

Michael

RebelHill
05-21-2012, 06:34 AM
Nope... Ikb's bone dynamics has been busted since v10

Actually a few parts of IKB have been busted since then too. No-one knows the system well enough to properly bug report it, and even if they did, no-one at NT is familiar enough with the system to fix it.

that's why I keep saying IKBs dead now.

prometheus
05-21-2012, 06:35 AM
Nope... Ikb's bone dynamics has been busted since v10

Ahh..I thought they might have fixed that with the service pack, that was kind of sad.

Should be working with 9.6 anyway.
Michael

prometheus
05-21-2012, 07:02 AM
Seems to work on the very first 10.0 lightwave version thou 64 bit, have to check lightwave 11 later.

Michael

3DGFXStudios
05-21-2012, 07:31 AM
Put a two point poly chain with cloth dynamics in the tail and use FX Metalink to link you model to it.

prometheus
05-21-2012, 01:48 PM
Testing on lightwave 11.0
Bone dynamics are still working here..so where is it broken?

Just using wind and ikbooster and bone dynamics with some weights...wind has directional mode and a ripple texture is affecting the bones, so that works, collision objects too.

Michael

Richard Hebert
05-21-2012, 04:56 PM
Thanks guys for the input. Would be nice to have dynamics applied to selected bone chains. I could put the tail part of the model on a separate layer and apply dynamics to those bones only (provided IKB still works) If I'm not mistaken I'd have to freeze the Subd mesh in modeler to keep the mesh together though?

Richard

SplineGod
05-21-2012, 08:52 PM
Bone dynamics still seem to work fine in IKB for me at least. You can apply bone dynamics to parts of a character rather then the whole character. You can also change the weight, spring, etc etc on the bones of the tail to determine how they respond to the dynamics.
That being said, I very likely would never try and do it that way. It would be faster to animate the tail by hand as opposed to massively tweaking the dynamics to maybe get what you want and even then you'd probably still have to edit the simulation after it was done.
I think hand animating the tail in IKB would be a good way since its setup to easily handle long bone chains as well as easily copying the keys to repeat the motions as long as you need.
Another way I would go is go with RebelHills suggestion...Relativity has some tools to make animating a tail for swimming easy to do. Theres also a function in relativity to freeze or bake the functions all at once on all the bones so that you could tweak the motions further by hand.

Richard Hebert
05-21-2012, 10:05 PM
Thanks Larry, the tail isn't sweeping back and forth or creating a repetitive movement per se. Rather, it acts like a secondary motion to the body of the ray. The ray darts upward and the tail reacts to that movement with a minor delay and a slight curvature. I have no experience with relativity (there's a lot about LW that I haven't even touched yet) so I'm not sure if this will get the effect that I'm looking for. Secondary motion is the closest concept that I can relate it to for descriptive purposes. I hope that my description was clear... video animation can be tough to translate into words! Thanks for the fast response!

SplineGod
05-22-2012, 04:44 AM
I think Id still animate it by hand because based on what youve described it sounds even easier. Most of the time it seems that by time you fiddle and tweak with dynamics you can usually just animate by hand. :)
IKB also has another option called Dynamic effect. If you think of bone dynamics sort of like clothfx for bones, dynamic effect is like softfx for bones. You can apply just to the tail or part of the tail. It does a sort of softfx like wobble to the tail based on what the rest of the Ray is doing. You also apply the effect on just the portion of the timeline you wish to apply it to.

Surrealist.
05-22-2012, 05:11 AM
IKB is working in 11 for me too. :)

For something as simple as this I might animate it by hand also.

But I am also not sure why the cloth is not suitable. If you decide to explore that angle again...

You could crank up the hold structure and probably get something very close. Those values can go rather high above 1,000. Spring, Stiffness and Hold are the settings to play with, then use other settings to dampen it such as viscosity. You can also use weights to control this. And pick the weights on the left drop downs. If I remember correctly, where the weight is 100% the setting you have in the field is 100%, and where the weight is 0 it defaults to the base setting you enter in that drop down. If I am wrong someone can correct on this point, but that is the basic set up.

SplineGod
05-22-2012, 05:22 AM
True, you have all that stuff you can tweak. The problem comes down to what actually happens vs what you think is going to happen and fixing it usually means alot of tweaking :)

Andrewstopheles
05-22-2012, 05:35 AM
Procedural motion might be of use:
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/pub/LightWave/Tutorials/Vidz/
See procedural motion 1 and 2.

RebelHill
05-22-2012, 09:16 AM
I say...

Well i coulda sworn that the dynamics was one of the things that got broke in IKB, there certainly are other things in there that broke.

Still, good to know.