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Philbert
05-19-2012, 04:20 PM
The June issue of 3D World has a nice review of LightWave 11. One curious thing though is that twice he mentions the ability to make Layout windows semi-transparent while manipulating the viewport. I've never heard of this, is it a settings somewhere?

Axis3d
05-19-2012, 04:37 PM
The mac version (which I use at work) does that. I think it's special only to the mac, maybe an OS level implementation. It is a pretty cool thing, allowing you to have windows open, like the Surface panel, Image panel, etc., and if you move around the viewport, those panels go semi-transparent so you can still see your scene. I hope they can bring that to the pc version.

Philbert
05-19-2012, 04:49 PM
Ah yeah it looked the a mac screenshot.

OnlineRender
05-19-2012, 04:52 PM
Its nice.maybe the mac users will give just ..however from what i have seen mac lw got'a lot of love

Philbert
05-19-2012, 05:00 PM
I just noticed your signature image. Took me a second to get the E. Very amusing.

SplineGod
05-19-2012, 07:18 PM
Im so sick of the mac getting all the love before the PC version... ;)

Axis3d
05-19-2012, 07:36 PM
Trust me, the Mac version is very lacking compared to the pc. I've been using the pc version forever (and still do at home). But at work they switched over to macs and now I work in both worlds. The biggest problem on the Mac is the lack of OpenGL performance compared to a pc with a basic nvidia card. Also, mesh deformations seem noticeably slower. I hope they can level out all that.

jwiede
05-19-2012, 08:10 PM
Trust me, the Mac version is very lacking compared to the pc.
That's why he put a smiley at the end. He knows the situ with Mac.


The biggest problem on the Mac is the lack of OpenGL performance compared to a pc with a basic nvidia card.

I'd put Mac LW's stability as a much higher-priority issue for Newtek to address over Mac-specific OpenGL performance. The OGL platform perf disparity is mostly an issue of OS and gfx card drivers (which Newtek can't really do much to resolve). There are definitely general OGL performance issues within LW as well, esp. w.r.t. viewport performance, but those tend to be cross-platform issues. LW's stability on Mac, OTOH, is largely within Newtek's ability to address, and has a huge impact with potential customers, both reasons (IMO) it deserves greater platform-specific priority.

Mac LW's stability has improved substantially in LW11 for many features, but there are some regressions as well. Still, Mac LW needs a significant amount of further improvement to reach "parity" with Win LW in terms of stability.


I hope they can level out all that.

You and all the rest of us Mac LW users.

jwiede
05-19-2012, 08:24 PM
The June issue of 3D World has a nice review of LightWave 11. One curious thing though is that twice he mentions the ability to make Layout windows semi-transparent while manipulating the viewport. I've never heard of this, is it a settings somewhere?
What did the review cite as the biggest pros for and cons against Lightwave?

Baba
05-20-2012, 07:11 AM
Pros: solid and reliable, full toolset, fast, high quality renderer. Cons: text buttons not to everybody's liking, some tools feel a little dated.
Me thinks it's a pretty balanced review and I can only agree with their final judgement: a refreshingly good upgrade.
Funny though on the next page there is a review of Modo 601 wherein there's a lot of drooling over new features that I've taken for granted in LW for years.

SplineGod
05-20-2012, 07:58 AM
What were the modo features they were drooling over?

Darth Mole
05-20-2012, 09:00 AM
Please NewTek don't ever switch to icons. I have plenty of apps that use icons and I never know what the hell any of them are. I'm constantly hovering over to see the tooltip!

RealFlow, C4D, even Photoshop and AE - I still forget what they actually do. That is never the case with the LW!

Baba
05-20-2012, 02:17 PM
What were the modo features they were drooling over?

They're excited that modo can be used as a standalone solution and that it has CA tools.
Both reviews are fairly objective and balanced TBH. The perspective is somewhat different as the modo article is written by a longtime user and the LW one by a C4D user who is suitably impressed and says he'll probably ditch C4D in favour of LW for his motion graphics work.

Bill Carey
05-20-2012, 05:13 PM
Please NewTek don't ever switch to icons. I have plenty of apps that use icons and I never know what the hell any of them are. I'm constantly hovering over to see the tooltip!

RealFlow, C4D, even Photoshop and AE - I still forget what they actually do. That is never the case with the LW!

+1 My brain doesn't think in icons, even though they are supposed to be more intuitive.

Dodgy
05-20-2012, 06:00 PM
They're excited that modo can be used as a standalone solution and that it has CA tools.
Both reviews are fairly objective and balanced TBH. The perspective is somewhat different as the modo article is written by a longtime user and the LW one by a C4D user who is suitably impressed and says he'll probably ditch C4D in favour of LW for his motion graphics work.

That's a surprise, I thought C4d was king for motion graphics. While there's a lot you can do with LW, I would have thought C4d's procedural modelling stuff would be more suited to this kind of stuff.

Serling
05-20-2012, 09:37 PM
That's a surprise, I thought C4d was king for motion graphics. While there's a lot you can do with LW, I would have thought C4d's procedural modelling stuff would be more suited to this kind of stuff.

I have an artist friend at work who uses C4D + AE for all our motion graphics work and the problem with C4D is they nickle and dime you to death on all the different modules you need to be able to do everything LW does right out of the box.

He would love to have dynamics however because it costs more, the company won't buy it for him.

From what I've seen of C4D, it's pretty good if you don't mind getting robbed for all the "extras" that are standard in LW.

Dodgy
05-20-2012, 09:46 PM
I have an artist friend at work who uses C4D + AE for all our motion graphics work and the problem with C4D is they nickle and dime you to death on all the different modules you need to be able to do everything LW does right out of the box.

He would love to have dynamics however because it costs more, the company won't buy it for him.

From what I've seen of C4D, it's pretty good if you don't mind getting robbed for all the "extras" that are standard in LW.

Ah, therein lies the rub! Unbelievable POWER! Unbelievable pricing!

inkpen3d
05-21-2012, 02:49 AM
Please NewTek don't ever switch to icons. I have plenty of apps that use icons and I never know what the hell any of them are. I'm constantly hovering over to see the tooltip!

RealFlow, C4D, even Photoshop and AE - I still forget what they actually do. That is never the case with the LW!


+1 My brain doesn't think in icons, even though they are supposed to be more intuitive.

+1 from me as well, and for the very same reasons! Or, if NT do introduce icons, at least let us have the ability to switch between the two UI options in the Preferences.

Personally, I can't see it happening: just too many buttons - even at the top level - to replace with distinct and meaningful icons. And since NT have got more important things to concentrate on, this would just be an unnecessary distraction!

biliousfrog
05-21-2012, 03:08 AM
I'm not so sure that the text buttons are the issue but the shear amount of them which overwhelms the user and clutters the interface. I really hope that they start to combine many of the tools soon because it's becoming more and more bloated with buttons, many of which I've never used. A single tool for move, rotate, scale would be a great start with falloff options for shear and bend effects, that would reduce the buttons dramatically for starters.

BeeVee
05-21-2012, 03:14 AM
One advantage of having several tools is that each can be set up in the way you want rather than having to keep changing settings as you use the same tool for different purposes. What do you think?

B

inkpen3d
05-21-2012, 03:27 AM
I'm not so sure that the text buttons are the issue but the shear amount of them which overwhelms the user and clutters the interface. I really hope that they start to combine many of the tools soon because it's becoming more and more bloated with buttons, many of which I've never used. A single tool for move, rotate, scale would be a great start with falloff options for shear and bend effects, that would reduce the buttons dramatically for starters.


One advantage of having several tools is that each can be set up in the way you want rather than having to keep changing settings as you use the same tool for different purposes. What do you think?

B

Also, you have to consider the impact on new (or infrequent) users, if too much functionality is combined into one button and its associated requester panel it will simply overwhelm and confuse such users - possibly to the point that they give up on LW as being just too complex to get to grips with.

The simplicity of the LW UI was one of the things that attracted me (back in the days of LW 6.5) to the application in the first place - I migrated from TrueSpace, which was a pain to use because I could never remember what all the myriad icons stood for!

JonW
05-21-2012, 04:23 AM
Keep button names & the keyboard shortcut notation, which is great to jog the memory for those buttons used less frequently.

A hieroglyphic interface without a shortcut notation is impracticable to the extreme.

LW's current buttons are simple, elegant, clear & concise! Maybe a bit of rearranging etc but that's a different issue.

raw-m
05-21-2012, 10:25 AM
Does 3d World still do LW tutorials? Haven't looked in a while but was generally thin on the ground except for the occasional Q&A - not worth the price for me. The last one I bought had an excellent node surfacing tutorial which I still refer to, Tobian's Space Station, but that was a couple of years ago now. Other than that, slim pickings.

Serling
05-21-2012, 10:35 AM
I gave up on both 3D Artist and 3D World because they were both expensive and didn't give LightWave nearly the same coverage that Maya or C4D got.

Philbert
05-21-2012, 10:53 AM
Does 3d World still do LW tutorials? Haven't looked in a while but was generally thin on the ground except for the occasional Q&A - not worth the price for me. The last one I bought had an excellent node surfacing tutorial which I still refer to, Tobian's Space Station, but that was a couple of years ago now. Other than that, slim pickings.

Unfortunately not every issue but most seem to have one or maybe two small ones. This one doesn't but that may be just due to the three page article on it. If you have an idea for an tutorial tell them about it. That's how I got my 5 page one.

Tobian
05-21-2012, 11:24 AM
I have a big article coming up in issue 158, on making chipped paint. The exposure for LW isn't all that great, but they are looking to beef up their LW content. The disparity is really just a reflection of the market... everything else has a bigger market share.

biliousfrog
05-21-2012, 12:15 PM
When I was subscribing (from issue one for 5 years, 7 years for Computer Arts, a couple for CGI magazine) I'd say that I got way more from the non-LW tutorials than the few that were created specifically for LW...probably because I'd already seen most of them in a LW book or on a forum. It also meant that I'd have to dig deeper to work out how to recreate the techniques rather than following parrot fashion.

DigitalSorcery8
05-21-2012, 12:44 PM
Funny though on the next page there is a review of Modo 601 wherein there's a lot of drooling over new features that I've taken for granted in LW for years.

Oh please...

And so many of the features in LW11 that are "new" have been in other packages for a long time as well. LW is still and will be playing catch up for a long time. Hopefully they will be able to insert CORE items in much more quickly and start to seriously catch up to these other applications. I'm certainly not holding my breath, but I do hope that things progress more quickly.

Julez4001
05-21-2012, 01:07 PM
That's a surprise, I thought C4d was king for motion graphics. While there's a lot you can do with LW, I would have thought C4d's procedural modelling stuff would be more suited to this kind of stuff.


Dpont free plugins and Byrphi77 tutorials pretty much equals that out.

Baba
05-21-2012, 01:48 PM
Oh please...

Oh yeah, sorry, forgot, moaning and complaining only
Let me rephrase: Funny though on the next page there is a jubilant review of Modo 601 which stable as bedrock and packed with exciting new features that LW will never have because Newtek dropped Core.
:D

DigitalSorcery8
05-21-2012, 02:00 PM
Oh yeah, sorry, forgot, moaning and complaining only
Let me rephrase: Funny though on the next page there is a jubilant review of Modo 601 which stable as bedrock and packed with exciting new features that LW will never have because Newtek dropped Core.
:D

Well... only fanboys with their heads stuck in the sand for the past DECADE don't seem to realize that when everyone who uses LW gets a new version and gushes over what great tools were implemented.... everyone else in the REAL world lets us know that these are tools that they've had for YEARS in their own application. And for the record... *I* was one of those "fanboys" who gushed at these "new" tools.

To put down the modo review and point out how great LW is with it's "new tools" is pitiful - it is identical to what the users of other applications have done to us LW users. I still use LW and will for the foreseeable future, but I certainly know what other packages CAN do and my head is not in the sand. :D:D

Baba
05-21-2012, 02:38 PM
It wasn't the modo review I was putting down.
Sorry if you misunderstood.

DigitalSorcery8
05-21-2012, 02:51 PM
It wasn't the modo review I was putting down.
Sorry if you misunderstood.

No, I guess you were really putting down modo - for the SAME reasons people using Maya, Max, XSI etc. put down LW when a new version is released. :tsktsk:

raw-m
05-21-2012, 03:31 PM
I have a big article coming up in issue 158, on making chipped paint.

Good news, I'll keep an eye open for that. Is it a vid tutorial like the other one?

Tobian
05-21-2012, 03:37 PM
Alas no, just all written down as I chickened out of doing another video tutorial again, that was agony for me :D

raw-m
05-21-2012, 03:41 PM
Booooo! You're a natural!!

Ernest
05-21-2012, 04:12 PM
Please NewTek don't ever switch to icons. I have plenty of apps that use icons and I never know what the hell any of them are. I'm constantly hovering over to see the tooltip!

If reviewers so desperately need their icons, maybe NT can do it backwards! Keep the button as just text and when you hover, you get an icon tooltip.


Well, wasn't it fun to be able to switch off or on all 3 elements separately in core?
Icons/Text/Shortcuts - I found that pretty ... all-optionally. ;)

But the buttons remained twice as tall as LW's even after you turned off the icons, no? Was that a limitation of accommodating the 16*16 frame for the icon to go into?


And For what it's worth, I'm quite happy to continue gushing over cool features, regardless of what apps already have them! So keep them coming

Baba
05-21-2012, 04:15 PM
@ Tobian
Oh come on, we all live a life of agony :D

@ DigitalSorcery8
Maybe you should read was is actually written. Post #13 perhaps.
I can't remember pointing out how great LW is but aparantly you do and so I am a fanboy that had his head in the sand for well over a decade and only knows one pityfull decrepit app.
You really should guess again :)

Paul_Boland
05-21-2012, 05:09 PM
The June issue of 3D World has a nice review of LightWave 11.

I sent in a letter of complaint about that "review". Why? Because it is NOT a review of Lightwave 11!! Instead it is a general article on why the author likes Lightwave. He devotes only two paragraphs to "mentioning" the new features in Lightwave 11. I say "mention" because that's all he does, mention them. He doesn't cover the new features or talk about how good they are, how bad they are, what works, what has faults, etc. It's a great article about Lightwave, but it's NOT a review of Lightwave 11 :(.

DigitalSorcery8
05-21-2012, 05:35 PM
@ DigitalSorcery8
Maybe you should read was is actually written. Post #13 perhaps.
I can't remember pointing out how great LW is but aparantly you do and so I am a fanboy that had his head in the sand for well over a decade and only knows one pityfull decrepit app.
You really should guess again :)

You are right. I stand corrected. And... I apologize. MY (big) bad. :(


I sent in a letter of complaint about that "review". Why? Because it is NOT a review of Lightwave 11!! Instead it is a general article on why the author likes Lightwave. He devotes only two paragraphs to "mentioning" the new features in Lightwave 11. I say "mention" because that's all he does, mention them. He doesn't cover the new features or talk about how good they are, how bad they are, what works, what has faults, etc. It's a great article about Lightwave, but it's NOT a review of Lightwave 11 :(.

Good point. They really need someone who KNOWS LW and not someone who just used the latest version.

jeric_synergy
05-21-2012, 05:47 PM
Im so sick of the mac getting all the love before the PC version... ;)
Ahhhhh, irony. :D

jeric_synergy
05-21-2012, 05:49 PM
Cons: text buttons not to everybody's liking, some tools feel a little dated.
That's some really weak beer: I bet any random user here would be more scathing about Modeler's neglect.


...... and the LW one by a C4D user who is suitably impressed and says he'll probably ditch C4D in favour of LW for his motion graphics work.
Now, that surprises me.

jeric_synergy
05-21-2012, 05:55 PM
Dpont free plugins and Byrphi77 tutorials pretty much equals that out.
I love that Denis writes his stuff for LW, but it makes me nervous that he isn't PART of NewTek.

Unless he is, covertly, then I say "Well played!"
++
Yeah, those 3 coulda been one post. But they weren't.

kosmodave
05-22-2012, 12:00 AM
Just received issue 157 of 3d World and nothing for Lightwave again :( . I think it's time to drop the subscription because all the other packages have good project tutorials but about twice a year when they do a Lightwave tutorial it's usually how to make a ball or something simple like that.

Dave.

PS. anyone know how to texture a ball? :)

Tobian
05-22-2012, 07:19 AM
Prepare to have your eyes melted.. I am not sure I even understood my tutorial ;)

ianr
05-22-2012, 07:28 AM
I spoke to Richard Hill (ed) on this, then the reviewer
(Ron Maxon user) mailed me that print afternoon when
I said that NT had not documented this in 10 or 11.
He thought it was a GFX card quirk, and said he would
get back to me,nada!
Also Hill (ed) admitted that they were trying a new look
on their reviews, hence the lack lustre 2 page image, instanced grass & lonely sapling with hardly any text.!

Hill (ed) when pushed said that he was not prepared to
give the Iron Sky guys a 4 page spread, so no review/
exposure then. NT to formulate dialog with this mag.
It ainít easy for LW in this magazine, brethren!

Baba & Paul Boland, interesting thoughts Gentlemen.


Att of Matt Gorner: Laptop button
A interface enigma produces a positive addition
If it is allowed for rev11.5, then use this on 86x
& Mac LightWaves.
A small addition to Prefs/Display could set this
to say: Laptop, meaning fixed small screen that
triggers this effect on small screen real estate.
Personally itís a no brainer not to do as other apps
will pick it up & laugh about its full non inclusion
by Newtek.