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View Full Version : Say it isn't So Much, T3, T3a, T4 and so on.......



David
03-03-2003, 08:38 AM
I feel after buying a dual xeon w/an 860i motherboard
and four SCSI drives, and countless updates a dual
athlon mp that wouldn't boot and many other
integration problems this T3 update should be free. I
was part of the T2 beta force and many of the updates
promised in this new release are improvements that
should have been included a long time ago.

Don't get me wrong I like Toaster and I think it is
cutting edge technology but I feel allot of things
like DV integrating batch capturing and a rtv wrapper
codec (other editors use codecs which are cross
platform and export to mpeg for DVD creation is included) are
things that are offered from the start (in AVID,
Premiere, Blade even offers native 24p, etc...). No
doubt the aliens at Newtek have been waiting to cash
in big time for $595.00 big ones teasing us with
occasional improvements.

I am not impressed this seems to be nothing but
planned obsoletism. We all have to make a living and I guess its how things get done these days, I wonder if the original Toaster/Flyer had this many updates before the days of broadband things had to be done the right way the first time. We have entered the Bill Gates era my friends updates from now on will cost you!

This country was founded in the belief that the right to decent is one of our guiding principles. I hope my right to decent isn't taken as a total disregard for what the Toaster is and great AAA+ all in one editor and TV studio in a box. This is just my opinion mostly good and hope it doesn't discourage anyone from buying a Toaster now because if your entering now its in its finished form. But I personally think the sweat and effort those who already own the Toaster is being disregarded by asking us to pay an additional $595.00.

Jim Capillo
03-03-2003, 09:28 AM
Well, I've got to disagree..... I've made plenty with the Toaster and $600 certainly isn't going to break the bank. Newtek is a company in business, and just like you, if the cash doesn't come in, they go out of business. They've given us what, seven free upgrades ? I've been sufficiently impressed by the improvements of the FREE ones to know that the paid upgrade will be kickass.

Your right to dissent? I would preserve you First Amendment rights but suggest that it is a fair price for a major feature(s) upgrade. Try the $5,000 "upgrade" for the Trinity.

$600 looks pretty good compared to that......:cool:

johnq
03-03-2003, 11:10 AM
I have to disagree also. This is not "planned obsoletism." For example, I also own a Matrox RT2000. Matrox world-wide sold almost 100,000 of these at about $1000 each. There was no upgrade of anykind when Matrox came out with the replacement RT2500, nor when the RTX100 replaced that one. This all happened in about 4 years. Each new model had slightly different hardware. There have been no updates to the RT2000 in over a year. That is obsoletism.

john

Faraz
03-03-2003, 01:42 PM
I think its safe to say that NewTek is very good about software upgrades. They gave us 7 patches before charging for one. At least NewTek is only charging for new software, many companies will just drop a line of hardware and start a new one. Leaving those old customers high and dry.

jim b
03-03-2003, 03:41 PM
I think the upgrades have been great. But I dont think we should have to pay for the CG upgrade. It was bad from the start and never really got any better. We were told many times that it was being redesigned, to work out the bugs I assume.

All other upgrades that were not part of the first release I dont have any problem paying for.

JMHO

Jim Capillo
03-03-2003, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by jim b
I think the upgrades have been great. But I dont think we should have to pay for the CG upgrade. It was bad from the start and never really got any better. We were told many times that it was being redesigned, to work out the bugs I assume.

All other upgrades that were not part of the first release I dont have any problem paying for.


Would you be in favor of a [free] quicky release for the CG, then getting the [paid] 3.x upgrade later?

It could be a debatable point, because as was the case in TEd, it was included in the release, although TEd was improved - the CG was included, and it does work, albeit clunky. At this point, I don't care - I'm buying the upgrade anyway, if the CG comes as a free upgrade, fine - if not, I'll see it in the paid upgrade.

robewil
03-03-2003, 04:11 PM
I am not impressed this seems to be nothing but planned obsoletism.
"Planned obsolescence" whether you like it or not, is what drives the industry. Do you really think the other products you mention (AVID, Premiere, and Blade) are any different in this regard?

jim b
03-03-2003, 04:12 PM
I think a quick free release of the CG would make it more likely I would buy the upgrade. Play tried to hold certain things that didnt work in its original release hostage to make us buy the upgrade to get it fixed. Im still using 1.3 software. I feel that any company should make good on their promises before trying to get more money out of you. Cant wait to upgrade, sounds like a lot of cool new features but I guess I will have to see.

RayLarson
03-03-2003, 04:32 PM
Let's see. I have had at least 6 free upgrades..T3 will make 7 divide that into $595 and if you give me a working CD and batch capture..plus the other improvements I think it's a great bargain. I do hope the upgrade comes with upgraded manuals since my old ones are holding a door open.

Any previews of what we can expect in the new CG....or any other hints.:D

Jim Capillo
03-03-2003, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by jim b
I think a quick free release of the CG would make it more likely I would buy the upgrade. Play tried to hold certain things that didnt work in its original release hostage to make us buy the upgrade to get it fixed. Im still using 1.3 software. I feel that any company should make good on their promises before trying to get more money out of you. Cant wait to upgrade, sounds like a lot of cool new features but I guess I will have to see.

I agree totally about Play/Globalstreams - I still haven't paid their ransom and never will...... but to intimate that Newtek is pulling the same scam that Play/GS did/is is a bit unfair.

I'm betting we'll all be happy once we install 3.x :cool: :D

robewil
03-03-2003, 04:38 PM
What in the CG is broken that it needs to be "fixed"?

I know, I know the CG's output could be much improved. I know the interface is clumsy. I know there's a million and one things that could be better than it is right now but it does work. Newtek delivered a CG that puts titles on the screen. So I don't see why people should feel entitled to a free upgrade to the "new and improved" CG.

I'm not trying to blindly defend Newtek. If the rest of the Toaster suite was of the same quality as the CG, the Toaster would be an inferior product and we would all be using something else. We know this is not the case. The Toaster is a superior product with it's main weaknesses being a poor (but working CG) and a clumsy way of dealing with DV. Newtek, like any good company, listened to their users and developed a (hopefully) improved CG. Notice how it is the DV and CG capabilities of the Toaster that are the only parts that are redesigned in T[3]. Give them credit. More importantly, give them money. Buy your upgrade.

David
03-03-2003, 04:40 PM
I didn't expect to hear anyone who isn't kissing but! Well I hope if bugs are found in Toaster 2 we won't have to pay for the upgrade to fix them.

jcupp
03-03-2003, 04:44 PM
/SOAPBOX ON
So let me get this straight, you had integration problems which isn't NewTeks fault - talk to your dealer and VT[2] didn't include features that were never promised, and because of that you want a free upgrade.

Sheesh, if I hear one more person complaining about NewTek charging for this upgrade or how expensive it is or how they are going to have to live in a cardboard box so they can afford an appropriate cpu I'm gonna scream.

NewTek is in the business of SELLING stuff, not giving it away. They will be unable to continue updating the Toaster if they don't SELL stuff. Man, look around at almost every other company in the video business. They screw their customers on a regualr basis but people complain when NewTek wants to charge for a major upgrade with dozens of new features after 7 free upgrades (not just bug fixes) in a year.

/SOAPBOX OFF

Sorry about the vent but it just pisses me off.

-Jeff
Digital Arts


Originally posted by David
...and many other integration problems this T3 update
should be free....

...but I feel allot of things like DV integrating batch capturing and a rtv wrapper codec (other editors use codecs which are cross
platform and export to mpeg for DVD creation is included) are
things that are offered from the start (in AVID,
Premiere, Blade even offers native 24p, etc...).

jim b
03-03-2003, 04:45 PM
Well thats all good but the CG was important to me from the beginning. I was told many times just wait for the CG it will be awsome. Oh were working on it. Its being redesigned. Now if you want it you will have to buy the upgrade for 600.00. I have been editing fine with the Toaster as is accepted for the CG. Its a pain and I shouldnt have to go to a third party product for something that should work in T2. :mad: The updates we have received are bug fixes with a thank you for waiting. Dont get me wrong I appreciate the updates but give us the CG and let us decide if we want the Upgrade.

nuff said

Brian Peterson
03-03-2003, 05:09 PM
Can't please everybody all of the time...

I'm one who is going to have to upgrade from my dual PIII 800s and I have no problem with this upgrade! Newtek more than delivered on their promises, especially since I haven't had to pay for an upgrade since I purchased 1.0! Newtek has been more than fair, and when it comes to the CG, it works and frankly it's a minor part of the system, at least for me.

It's made me money and made things easy and after experimenting with FCP and the Apple screw machine, I'm more than happy to support Newtek with a few measly dollars.

You want planned obsolence, my friend purchased a Pinnacle 1000 nearly 2 years ago. 1 month after he purchased it they came out with the 2000... Guess what, unlike Newtek who supports everything they have ever sold, at least so far, Pinnacle told him purchase the new card, we don't support that one anymore! And he's had severe problems for a while with it.

David
03-03-2003, 05:11 PM
With all the time I've invested and everything said I'm glad Newtek continues to improve there product. Thank you for the 7 free updates I hope we get 7 more after T3.

jim b
03-03-2003, 05:56 PM
Tell you what Ive supported Newtek since I bought the Toaster Flyer system 1992. I have spent a fortune with them and plan to spend more so dont tell me I should support Newtek. I have a business to run also and I dont tell my clients the project is almost just the way I said it would be but you need to pay me more if you want it right. Flame me all you want but everyone knows the CG was not done or they would not have redesigned it.

I think the Upgrade without the CG is worth the money. Its the principle.

jcupp
03-03-2003, 06:12 PM
I beg to differ, there have been quite a few new features released since last January. Including, but not limited to: timeline nudge, support for WinXP, blur filter, assorted new hotkeys, new versions of Aura, some asset management in the FileBin and keyboard free panning and zooming on the timeline. There are more but I can't think of them off the top of my head, any one of those would have been enough to cause some companies to charge for the upgrade.

The CG works now and while it is not the greatest thing ever it does get the job done. If it's not cutting it use Aura or Lightwave or some third party application. If the $595 for the upgrade is too steep and you don't need the other new stuff in T[3] take a look at PowerCG, it's cheap ($99), feature rich and supports the Toaster.

http://www.caymangraphics.com/prices.htm

-Jeff
Digital Arts


Originally posted by jim b
The updates we have received are bug fixes with a thank you for waiting.
nuff said [/B]

ssdcinc
03-03-2003, 06:33 PM
Okay.....

so you want a free upgrade, simple!!!
Sell Your Toaster 2 board and buy a New
one, which comes with a free upgrade to T3.

of course everybody has thier opinons, BUTT
NEWTEK more than goes out of their way
to help thier customers, just read the boards
actions speak louder than words.

They do deserve to survive and make some
money, so its not too much to ask for an in-expensive
upgrade after providing many many FREE one's.

you'll never find a company that provides the
level of support that NEWTEK does and
for FREE no less...

give them a break!!!
-----my 5 cents.

jim b
03-03-2003, 06:42 PM
Never said I wanted a free Upgrade. I just wanted what was promised. I will be glad to pay for the Upgrade I just dont want to pay for a CG fix. Said all im going to say on the subject.

Paul Lara
03-03-2003, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by jim b
I think the Upgrade without the CG is worth the money. Its the principle.

That's an interesting position to take, Jim.
NewTek has honestly stated that CG could be better, and we were working on it.

Then again, EVERY module in Video Toaster [2] could be better, and we are working as hard as we can to satisfy every customer by listening to their requests, incorporating them into Toaster, and doing so in a timely manner, while providing a continuous stream of product improvements.

steveg
03-03-2003, 07:55 PM
Jim B I am 110% in agreement with you. Despite the people kissing up to NewTek who don't understand what a good CG is we have been told over and over that NewTek was going to deliver an new improved CG, again and again since the beginning of this PC Toaster. This information has been stringing some of us aloing who might have bailed if we were told in the beginning that NewTek would be charging to fix the CG. NewTek knows what they have done. They know we have been waiting for a new CG and they feel that they didn't have to mention that it would cost extra. I think this is why we feel cheated out of what was clearly promised by NewTek even with Paul's famous quote "we are working on it". Paul just failed to mention that they are going to charge us for it. I have wasted many hours writing on this forum about this same thing and always get overwelming responses that everyone else wants to hand out money for something already promised so many times, just like the responses you are getting here. They almost seem planted. Apparently, many people like getting lied to. I remember in the early days of NewTek, Tim J. stated on Public TV here in Kansas City that he was not really into it for the money but he did have a dream to put professional quality video tools in the hands of everyone. Someone somewhere at NewTek has crushed that dream. Tim stood for the rights of the little guy. I guess Tim is no longer in control. Somewhere along the way people in suits have taken over and NewTek is not who it once was. They have now graduated to Bill Gates tactical level. Thanks, NewTek!

ted
03-03-2003, 08:24 PM
I bought the Toaster knowing the shortcomings, especially CG, No Batch or Keyframe editor.

I did my homework and made the decision anyway. All the while getting little use for my investment, but giving NewTek input, to make Toaster work better for our needs. Iím in this for the long haul.

If you bought a system without doing your homework, or knowing if it met your needs, don't blame NewTek.

Toaster as it is now, worked for many people just fine. Not for me, but for many.

Now that Toaster has matured, I'll gladly pay for the major upgrade and I'll be getting my money's worth.
I really don't feel this is unfair!

There will always be unhappy people, but it's VERY OBVIOUS that those are by far the minority as Steve G. has himself stated.

Brian Peterson
03-03-2003, 08:25 PM
So let me get this straight, Steveg, the only thing you purchased the T2 for was the CG? You spent upwards of $5000+ for CG?! Maybe you should look into the Globalcaster, my understanding is that the only thing that really works in it is the CG. Or if all you needed was the CG, the Videonics Titlemaker does a great job and is a heck of a lot cheaper.

Maybe you should look into an FCP system, even though Apple advertises a cg in it, it's real cg is Photoshop!

In my opinion the reason most of us aren't unhappy with the cost is the fact that what we will be getting is much, much, much more than CG! Batch capture, filters, compatibility with 3rd party programs and on and on and on. If all there was to T3 was a CG upgrade than I'm sure everyone would be up in arms, but from the sounds of it this is a complete re-do of the entire system, cg is only one minor part of it!

Newtek delivered a functioning CG, and the aliens have on a number of ocassions pointed out people who are successfully using the CG in professional environments. And frankly I've never encountered a program that didn't have it's weaknesses, for all the T2 can do what it can't do is minor, I've made a lot of money from it. I'm not a plant, I'm a customer who has faced companies that don't believe in taking care of their customers and shove paid for update after paid for update down their customers throats. Look at Apple, Jaguar wasn't a "new" version of OSX! It was the first version that worked with a damn and I had to go out and buy it to make my freaking Mac work properly! I've got a lot to be thankfull for in Newtek, they freely repaired dead flyer cards, toaster cards and T2 cards, spent hours on the phone helping me troubleshoot and they continue to support dead products.

If all the Toaster is to you is a CG machine, maybe you should bail.

Gordon
03-03-2003, 08:39 PM
Uumm. Don't hold your breath waiting for the CG in Toaster [3]. If people think that the upgrade price will be justified soley by a dramatically better and totally different CG then they may be disappointed.

I have always mentioned that I'm one of the people that actually like Toaster [2] CG. However, others have stated that there are better CG packages that do more than Toaster CG and it is likely that some will find what they want/need only in those packages. They may want to spend their money on those packages instead.

Even though the CG is improved, Toaster [3] is much more than that. Let's just pick a figure out of thin air, (as an example only), and say that Toaster CG improvements are worth about $50 - $100 out of the total of the upgrade cost. Everything contributes to the total upgrade package costs and IMHO, the other improvements contribute more but they have to start charging someplace and this is as good a place as any.

Three things about the Toaster [3] CG that were shown to us dealers that I liked were:
* Page justification of items, (center, left and right justification).
* Improved choices for default text styles. This is likely the biggest source of complaints about the quality - people tend to use what is provided and the default choices were not all that great.
* Better grouping of items and then manipulation of the groups of items.

So when you purchase the upgrade, a small part of the whole package is an improved CG. Still this won't be enough for everyone.

I think I will start a poll/new thread just to find out what other software people use, what they paid for the package and what they like about the software. I'm curious.

bradl
03-03-2003, 11:14 PM
Chyron sells a real nifty CG package, called Duet. Full blown, it sells for about $186,000. Some of you may want to switch to that. Software maintenance for one year is about $1800. Has some real nice features:

Chryon Duet SD (http://www.chyron.com/products/graphics/duet/)

ScorpioProd
03-04-2003, 12:03 AM
Gordon, did they show any scrolling of the new CG? That's where the quality has always been worst no matter what font one uses, I really hope that improves... Because I really do need that.

As for the paid upgrade, it is for so much more than the CG. I agree that the present CG sucks, but it is usable, and for important things I use third-party CGs that do what I need.

I agree that I would have a problem paying for a CG only upgrade, but since the CG upgrade is part of a HUGE upgrade package of many new features, $600 seems totally reasonable to me. After all, that's what my India Pro CG cost me, and it will NEVER have an upgrade, and I don't regret its purchase at all.

And would anyone actually want Newtek to hold back on releasing a paid upgrade that has many new things just to do a free upgrade to the CG which would be included in the paid upgrade anyway? I wouldn't.

Since it's in there anyway, you can even think of it as free.

Anyone who is making money with their T[2] can easily justify this upgrade. T[2] has certainly paid for itself many times over for me, and though it's certainly not perfect, I would certainly upgrade it to make it even better.

If the CG is holding you back from upgrading to a T[3], maybe you should consider that the Toaster might not be right for your needs. Cause there is a lot more to it even if there was NO CG.

Danner
03-04-2003, 02:34 AM
A long time ago using amiga computers I did rolls with a thing called SCALA, I notieced that at some speeds rolls would look aweful but at some speeds they would look very smooth. Looking back I think it was because the amiga didn't do subpixel movement, so every line had to jump one pixel, or two, or three, but if the speed demanded for a line of text to jump, say, 2.3 pixels to attain that speed... well you get the picture. (shaky one)

So.. I have found that playing with the speed of a crawl or roll in TED I can get smooth rolls and crawls, at certain speeds.

ScorpioProd
03-04-2003, 03:52 AM
Yes, you are correct, and that is why the Amiga Toaster CG only allowed a few specific scroll speeds. Speeds that were video friendly.

The speeds that should be video friendly in the T[2] CG are specifically 2, 4, 6, as told to me by Andrew, and this does make sense.

Problem is, though there is absolutely NO shake at these speeds, there is no anti-aliasing either. :(

SBowie
03-04-2003, 07:23 AM
Ted, Gordon, Eugene, et al:

You are wasting your breath. As has just been pointed out, you are all merely "people kissing up to NewTek." You are also clearly inexperienced, since you "don't understand what a good CG is."

The fact that "overwelming responses" repeatedly disagree, presenting rational reasons for doing so, doesn't fool anyone. Clearly everyone who doesn't agree is just part of the group which "wants to hand out money for something already promised so many times" (though I've yet to see any official statements promising anything of the sort - Microsoft is no doubt "working on" the next generation of Windows, but it might be a little optimistic to think it will be free).

Again, all of you with different views should realize you "almost seem planted." (Could it be an alien conspiracy?) Clearly you could not disagree of your own volition. You must have some vested interest that makes you lie. Or perhaps you are honest, but simply stupid? "Apparently, many people like getting lied to."

Shame on you all. Please cease being such lackeys immediately, and align your views with the vocal minority forthwith.

stoolpigeon
03-04-2003, 12:07 PM
Okie dokie....My 2 cents......

I think the Toaster is great. I have supported Newtek since the original Toaster days and was one of the 1st to get the Flyer...WITH IT'S MANY MANY PROBLEMS. To this very day, I still have problems with our flyer system and I have faster drives in it than required.

Honestly, Newtek has done a great job working with the clients and improving the software. However, the CG improvements and batch capture have been promised for a long time. These should be given free before T3 comes available. T3 should include many more new effects, aura and lightwave stuff, as well as some audio improvements...such as eq, normalization, compression, better metering....and easier integration with Mpeg2 and DVD authoring.....perhaps a merger with TMPGENC's converter. Right now, I still have to render an entire project to AVI, then convert to Mprg2. If integrated, I wouldn't have to render a project twice.

I believe the upgrade should be SWEET, but please don't charge for what has been promised.

Gordon
03-04-2003, 01:20 PM
Eugene;
No they didn't show a scroll. The Toaster desktop was projected using a LCD projector anyhow so it would have been moot to do so, (we would need to be watching an NTSC display to make an eval). However, they did say that there were many improvements to the CG that they have made and were not being shown. It is entirely possible that scrolling text was one of the improvements made. We will know more in a month at NAB.

SBowie
03-04-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by stoolpigeon
Okie dokie....My 2 cents......
Thank you sincerely for managing to post your honest view without finding it necessary to insult those who differ. We could use with a little more of that tone in here. Not everyone who feels NewTek has been fair all along is a "butt kisser"; nor is everyone who feels NewTek should go the extra mile insulting. Much appreciated.

steveg
03-04-2003, 03:32 PM
sbowie, I really feel sorry for you. You have this gift of insulting and cutting others down without seeming to know it. A bit passive /agressive if you ask me. I don't remember insulting or cutting you down. In fact I don't even remember asking for your insulting opinions. I am curious as to how long you have been buying NewTek products? Did you struggle through the Amiga Toaster upgrades with the rest of us? Give me a little history instead of insulting my inteligence.

jcupp
03-04-2003, 03:58 PM
You will find that SBowie is a long time Dealer in NewTek products and general Friend Of NewTek and NewTek users everywhere so tread carefully.

-Jeff
Digital Arts

SBowie
03-04-2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by steveg
I don't remember insulting or cutting you down. In fact I don't even remember asking for your insulting opinions.

If you don't remember being insulting, just scroll up and re-read the last post on page two; I have quoted a number of your remarks. The same could easily be done in several other threads. You habitually follow any positive post from anyone in these threads by denigrating those who differ. That ticks me off, and I know without question I'm not alone ... others are just more tactful than me.

And ... this is a public forum, and I'm an honest guy. If someone thinks NewTek is out of line and I agree, I'll join in. If I think they are being unfairly castigated, I'll stick up for them. Normally I do so politely, but when someone feels quite free to characterise all who don't agree with his view as "people kissing up to NewTek who don't understand what a good CG is", that's insulting to everyone here. It's also arrogant, since you have no idea what experience people have, or what the quality of their moral character is. It's quite possible to disagree without being disagreeable -- all you need to do is stick to facts, and knock off the derogatory comments.

steveg
03-04-2003, 04:23 PM
Then you should take your own advice and quit cutting me down. I have been very consistant in stating that NewTek has promised a new CG since the beginning of this Toaster. If you have been around all that long you should quit deniing that NewTek promised this over and over. You are the one who came down on me acting as if NewTek had never stated that they were working on a new CG. Read your replies to me. I don't remember anyone except you saying that NewTek had never promised to give us a better CG. So, quit your beeel aching and get used to the fact that NewTek promised a new CG way before anyone ever decided to charge us for it. You say everyone can have a different opinion. Well, have yours. But, that doesn't change the fact that NewTek promised a new CG long before they came up with the T3 idea. This is the only problem I have with NewTek and not with you. I am stating facts and you come back at me for it. Now let's quit arguing, because, we both know that after all this, NewTek is going to charge us for the new cg. Or, they would have said different by now. By the way, as if it matters, I am responsible for for the sale of nearly every Amiga Video Toaster and 5 T(2)s sold in the greater Kansas City and St. Joseph area. And am not a dealer. Unlike you I don't get paid to sell NewTek products. I am proud of them and use them, and recomend them. When they are good to me I am good to them. So, don't judge me without knowing me.

SBowie
03-04-2003, 04:46 PM
You can be as persistent as you like. A good argument can sway people when supported by fact rather than diatribe. Anyone who can present his case without the need to insult everyone who doesn't agree will always at the very least have my respect, if not my support.

The contention about the "CG promise" has been discussed by myself and others at length elsewhere in these forums, and I won't bother to do so again.

Scott Bates
03-04-2003, 04:52 PM
SteveG, acting, again, like he owns this forum said:

In fact I don't even remember asking for your insulting opinions.

Apparently he's forgotten that this is a PUBLIC forum, NOT one created for HIS exclusive benefit, to be populated by ONLY those HE deems worthy, who say ONLY what HE wants to hear. You know Steve, Steve Bowie is not the one who in almost every post is "insulting and cutting others down", you earned that honor about the first time you showed up here and seem determined to keep it.

The vast majority of us are here because we use the Toaster as our tool of choice to earn our livings, we want to learn how to use it better, and when possible, to share what we have learned as we use it. The majority of those who post here either have "struggle[d] through the Amiga Toaster upgrades" and/or used other editing platforms and ended up here because it does what we need it to do, to satisfy our clients. There's no reason why anyone here has to justify their presence to anyone else, and if you think our experience and qualifications should have to pass your muster before we can post then you need to come down off your cloud and get a grip on reality.

My guess is that you have some experience that we could gain from, and we welcome that, but so long as you persist in using a consistantly negative tone you will continue to reap the harvest you sow.

ted
03-04-2003, 06:34 PM
The good news is, you don't HAVE to buy the upgrade.:)
But there's no way in H*** that I'd miss all the new bells and whistles for a fraction of what any other system would charge for an upgrade.

RomainR
03-04-2003, 07:42 PM
This thread is starting to bring back memories from the TC days.

Whatever happened to Joe Williams?

SteveG, you need to chill out man. Go see a movie or something...

wvp
03-04-2003, 08:40 PM
Well, what the heck I'll jump into the ring as well.
Newtek - put me down for one free upgrade to a redesigned CG.
Why?, because you marketed the program as a "Studio in a box". You included a CG program (as should be expected). You touted it as a "good" program, but have admitted that it is not what it should be (to paraphrase).
I thank you for the 7 upgrades this past year. All of which contained "numerous tweaks & fixes" that I believe should be free of charge from any company. The added features contained in these upgrades was very considerate of you to include. In fact at one point I wondered why? I practically felt guilty not paying you for these! This being said, I do not feel these "free" items should be in lieu of the improved CG.
Please continue to promote the improvements in Toaster[3], as I will need to upgrade my less than year old computer to install this and I know I will want to do so :) (I want lots of reasons to forget about the cost!)
I will be very appreciative for the new CG while I make plans to upgrade to the latest version.
Jeff
Loyal Toaster owner

videorapture
03-04-2003, 10:16 PM
Errrr, Yeah?! Newtek, I've signed up for the promised T3 upgrade already! I've got to temper my enthusiasm with the likelyhood of a wait of several months, and thats...ok. One thing that does tick me off royally is the fact that you will probably provide many additional features not listed in the original press release by then. And I know I speak for myself when I say this. stop all the free, good stuff already! I'd be much happier with crappy, expensive stuff. I'm kidding of course, but felt apprehensive about being called a butt-kisser (unless it was by Heather Loclear). For the record, I'm not entirely happy with the CG either. Bugs were fixed but some of the overall functionality for easy use is missing. As others have said, the scroll quality is also wanting. That being said, I can't remember where Newtek ever promised to provide a completely rewritten CG free of charge in an upgrade. Although I can remember someone who promised to stop ranting about not paying for a new CG in a different Toaster forum.
Its got to be an accident that Newtek has so many loyal customers. Then there was that stupid accident where many of you (us) took out that full page ad in a video magazine to show your appreciation for the hard work Newtek put into T2. And Newtek's staff accidently stops in to provide help and support in this and other forums. Hey, you've earned my loyalty. Its not blind loyalty either. Now back to work you lemmings. If Tim were here I'd kiss him on the cheek (face that is)

Peace

Original1
03-05-2003, 03:43 AM
SteveG, you need to chill out man. Go see a movie or something...


Go and see "The Pianist" and it will put life in perspective.

There is an issue with Toaster 3 that may cost you more than $600 bucks and that is the fact that its uses SEE instructions.

i.e. its optimised for Intel.

What about those of us who are using Athlon MP systems?

Does it mean that Toaster 3 will not run on these?

GoceN
03-05-2003, 12:34 PM
So you tell me that it's OK that I buy My VT last week and now I have to pay an extra 600$ GRRRRRRRRRRRR. How now I can resolve this problem.:mad:

SBowie
03-05-2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by GoceN
So you tell me that it's OK that I buy My VT last week and now I have to pay an extra 600$ GRRRRRRRRRRRR. How now I can resolve this problem.:mad:
Well, this is just a suggestion, but I know personally that (in the past) NewTek has worked with local dealers to show fairness to the end-user in situations similar to yours. May I recommend that rather than growling, you talk to your dealer, or make a private inquiry to NewTek if you bought directly from them.

Arte
03-05-2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by SBowie
Well, this is just a suggestion, but I know personally that (in the past) NewTek has worked with local dealers to show fairness to the end-user in situations similar to yours. May I recommend that rather than growling, you talk to your dealer, or make a private inquiry to NewTek if you bought directly from them.

That is very interesting to hear. I too have just got a Toaster.

Being honest though, wanting a freebie might be asking for a bit much. The Bundle was 6k $ approximately with Fusion 4, LW 7.5 and Aura. Considering Fusion4 is 5k alone it might be a bit cheeky to say the least:)


X

wvp
03-05-2003, 07:48 PM
Gocen,
Newtek states that T3 will be free for people who bought recently (offically I think the post was dated around Feb 20th or so, but I think (& hope) that it will be a little earlier as I was led to believe the new (3rd toaster for me!) that I bought in late Jan would get the upgrade.

MediaSig
03-05-2003, 09:20 PM
I'm curious considering I just upgraded by VT1 to VT2 in Early Dec. 2002. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that they are only considering folks who bought in 2003.

It's a shame. I have a slow system which is fine - I don't mind the rendering, but Razor has just never been the same since. I've hardly been able to edit since the upgrade.

Greg

Paul Lara
03-05-2003, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by wvp
Gocen, I was led to believe the new toaster that I bought in late Jan would get the upgrade.

How could that be?
NewTek made no mention of Toaster [3], nor our updgrade plans, until last week .

GoceN
03-06-2003, 03:43 AM
SBowie: Well, this is just a suggestion, but I know personally that (in the past) NewTek has worked with local dealers to show fairness to the end-user in situations similar to yours. May I recommend that rather than growling, you talk to your dealer, or make a private inquiry to NewTek if you bought directly from them.

SBowie, what you seying it's true but my local dealer is no longer at the new tek dealers least, and when I bought my VT nowbody tell me that is VT1, VT2 or even now VT3, also its true that New Tek is send me a free upgrade CD to VT2 but what I,m seing that I pay well mony just 2 weeks ago for privilegy to have Video toaster and now my budget is empty so I can not aford extra 600$ for VT3.

SBowie
03-06-2003, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by GoceN SBowie, what you seying it's true but my local dealer is no longer at the new tek dealers least, and when I bought my VT nowbody tell me that is VT1, VT2 or even now VT3Maybe it's just as well he's not a dealer any more then, if he did not provide you with full and accurate information.

Originally posted by GoceN ... also its true that New Tek is send me a free upgrade CD to VT2 but what I,m seing that I pay well mony just 2 weeks ago for privilegy to have Video toaster and now my budget is empty so I can not aford extra 600$ for VT3. So NewTek provide one free upgrade? Still, and especially if you bought in the last week as I think you said, a private e-mail to the appropriate NewTek officials might be worthwhile - it doesn't cost anything to try.

Videolink
03-06-2003, 11:09 AM
Steve is right... It is worth a few phone calls.
Call your Dealer you bought it from and get him to ask Newtek for you.
Call Newtek yourself as well.
they have all the details of purchase based on your serial #s
AND Newtek is one of the best manufacturers we have ever worked with.
After dealing with Matrox, Avid, DPS and Canopus...Newtek stands high above the pack with a greater level of support for their customers.

Chuck
03-06-2003, 04:22 PM
In some instances in the past we've provided free upgrades to users who purchased within the previous 30 or so days of an upgrade that was not pre-announced, meaning we said nothing about the upgrade until it was actually shipping. When we pre-announce an upgrade well before the shipping date, we usually indicate that from the time of the announcement forward, upgrades will be free to those who purchase the product currently available, and in this instance that's what we've done.

Anyone with questions or concerns regarding the announcement and their recent purchase should first contact their dealer. If the dealer is not available, please direct your inquiry to our customer services department, at [email protected] Please bear in mind however, that this is not a case where you have purchased a product and it is no longer the shipping version. VT [2] is still the shipping version and will remain so for some time.

GoceN
03-07-2003, 02:29 AM
To SBowie and Chuck

Oficial New Tek dealer in Macedonia its one suspicious guy he doesn't understand what he seiling and its not my folt that New Tek give him a oficial dealership, maybe I will disidet that I will pay an extra 600$ but that is not a point, point is that if oficial dealer told me that in near future I have to pay an extra 600$ for T3 upgrade maybe I will wait to New tek oficial shipp a T3 and then bought instantly T3 not like now. Do you understand my problem?

ted
03-07-2003, 04:55 AM
GoceN, I'd kick that dealers rear.
Not minimalizing your frustration, but, If a car salesman or dealership promised you, "This car will fly", I doubt the car manufacturer would give you a plane.
I'd take it up with the dealer.

SBowie
03-07-2003, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by GoceN
...point is that if oficial dealer told me that in near future I have to pay an extra 600$ for T3 upgrade maybe I will wait to New tek oficial shipp a T3 and then bought instantly T3 not like now. Do you understand my problem? It's not hard to understand your feelings. But even if your dealer is either unable or unwilling to help, I still maintain you will be more likely to arrive at a satisfactory conclusion if you discuss it directly with NewTek privately, as I have written before. My last word on the subject...

Chuck
03-08-2003, 09:25 AM
Gocen, perhaps your dealer just didn't know. Even if you purchased as late as the day we released the announcement, then your dealer would not have had the information, since we issued the information late that day.

Please give your dealer the benefit of the doubt, and contact them. If you subsequently are not satisfied with matters regarding the dealer, then please email [email protected] to discuss issues with our sales staff, including any complaints you may have regarding the dealer. We can often assist the dealer to resolve any issues.

I'm sure if you review matters you'll agree that it is only fair and proper to first work to resolve matters with the dealer, and then, if needed, directly with NewTek before posting any negative commentary on a dealer. I would guess that if a client of yours were concerned with something about the business you had done with them, you'd much prefer they come to you first rather than publicly post aspersions on your character and competence.

GoceN
03-08-2003, 10:00 AM
Chuck
I now your dealer wery well because I work 4 years at him, and I now hes competance very well you don't have to tell me, in no metter I will speak for somebody if I don't know him wery vell, so I now that if I go to him he will ask for many or he will has no inclusion wat I'm tolking about, but OK I will go to him when VT3 will release but in the end I know that I will come back to you again.