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View Full Version : Predicting the Future, How far out is this guy (Kaku)



prometheus
05-11-2012, 11:20 AM
Well.. the guy sounds like a genius, but doeīs he really know what he is talking about?

Ivé been seing guy from tv sience shows etc from time to time, but Ivé always had a feeling that he is a little to biased as a dreamer of what will come, and that comes from me, and I am in fact a dreamer too regarding of what cool things might come

Itīs just that I would find it more biased to say, In the future we probably or might have this and that, where Kaku gives an impression that this most certainly will be in the future.

similar when he talks about other dimensions, space travels etc..does he really know what he is talking about ( I think not) or throwing out speculations of a common belief or his own thoughts?

You might want to skip the introduction and go to somewhere at 5:40 in the clip.

What do you guys think?

Dr. Michio Kaku: "The World in 2030"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=219YybX66MY&feature=related

Michael

TalleyJC
05-11-2012, 12:39 PM
I've know about Kaku for years... He likes most to be able to put physics in a way that the average person can relate to. When he says "surely" he generally means surely possible. I think he's one of the few scientists who is comfortable with acknowledging that there will be advances in our understanding that will come into play and become commonplace. This is probably the dreamer vibe you're picking up on. He's admittedly a sci-fi geek as well and its one of the reasons he got into physics. he does know what he's talking about because I've seen him deliver less TV versions of lectures. His insight into physics let's him see possibilities. He did a really cool series on truth stranger than fiction where he showed aspects of physics that are known to be true that seem way beyond science fiction or fantasy.

shrox
05-11-2012, 01:25 PM
He also is a little too "over the top" for my tastes, he was against using a nuclear battery for the Cassini probe:

http://www.lovearth.org/mkaku.htm

probiner
05-11-2012, 01:30 PM
Hopefuly he is far far away....

SplineGod
05-11-2012, 04:22 PM
I think the idea is to stimulate the imagination. I think any reasonable person knows that its just impossible to predict that far ahead. I see the same "dreamer syndrome" happen in a lot of fields. Ive watched many shows on dinosaurs where they find a few bones of a dinosaur and then dream up this whole idea of how they lived, mating rituals, which bars they hung out at, how they reacted to bad grades on a report card, etc. its really all conjecture, though in some cases based on so called "educated" guessing. In the end its all good TV and entertaining and far better then watching the Kardashians. :)

cresshead
05-11-2012, 04:27 PM
hey, don't dis DS9....one of my fav shows buddy!


http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm1hd9ryTi1qeevqbo1_500.jpg

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/168/9/6/Kira_Nerys_by_DennisBudd.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_91s-Zkod9Gc/S8sEtvHJQzI/AAAAAAAAH_s/coHnXB2eaqI/s1600/04.jpg

DigitalSorcery8
05-11-2012, 07:52 PM
I've know about Kaku for years... He likes most to be able to put physics in a way that the average person can relate to. When he says "surely" he generally means surely possible. I think he's one of the few scientists who is comfortable with acknowledging that there will be advances in our understanding that will come into play and become commonplace. This is probably the dreamer vibe you're picking up on. He's admittedly a sci-fi geek as well and its one of the reasons he got into physics. he does know what he's talking about because I've seen him deliver less TV versions of lectures. His insight into physics let's him see possibilities. He did a really cool series on truth stranger than fiction where he showed aspects of physics that are known to be true that seem way beyond science fiction or fantasy.

:agree:

I've seen him in a couple of shows where he went quite a bit further than the "everyday person" could understand. I think I'm pretty well versed on the theories of today (as a lay-person) - and some things go way beyond even my basic understanding. And he certainly makes these concepts FAR easier to understand than anyone else. He is the Carl Sagan of the current generation and he does it very well. And I think he is FAR more intelligent that those shows allow him to show. He may eb a dreamer, but he definitely knows his stuff.

Kudo's to Mr. Kaku! :thumbsup:

m.d.
05-11-2012, 08:28 PM
i read some of his books...they were pretty good...

But some of the stuff he says on TV is a little out there....I think fame got to him a bit.

jwiede
05-12-2012, 01:07 AM
Kaku's as smart and well-informed as he appears, and the "Sagan for the current generation" comment is pretty spot-on, IMO.

He just appears to prefer stimulating interest in science and futurism than toiling away among whiteboards and academics, and seems to be pretty good at it. Is he "out there"? Sure. Does he tend to project his own views of science theory a bit too much as fact? Yes, probably. Still, as a species, humans are far better off having him than not. Most of the same criticisms being leveled against Kaku were leveled against Sagan back in the day.

prometheus
05-12-2012, 05:04 AM
Indeed..that may be his intent...to just engage common people, society and common people to what wonderful things could be accomplished.

Raising interest for sience and focus money on "the right things"
will surely make some visions come to life faster than later.

Still waiting for the flying cars so many predicted many years ago:)

Actually I would be happy to see those PRT (Personal Rapid Transit) showing
up in my neighbourhood, Our commune is actually working with that Project together with some others, and it seem to have worked well, It will have to convince more people and of course raise A lot of money before that becomes reality.

Im hoping for a faster transit between home and work, or going to the city.. and perhaps only wait for a cab that follows the schedule intervall of 3 minutes if possible.

Dont think I would wear those internet lenses, by that time I hope I could afford an eye laser operation to get rid of my current lenses.
It still costs a whole lot of bucks.

Everything sounds very cheap in Mr Kakuīs visions, unfortunatly I think the greed will live on for quite a while, causing much of it not to be so cheap.

When do our civilization start to provide free health care or at least very
affordable healtcare to all of earths citizens,10-20.30 years from now?
or never going to happen?
whatīs preventing it to be it so?

I need free healthcare for allergic reactions, fix my eyes, free dental care...and more to come once I grow older.
Michael

inkpen3d
05-13-2012, 07:42 AM
My wife (who, BTW, has a degree in physics) and I find Kaku really, really annoying - he's become the talking head of choice for third-rate science programs that want to give an air of authority to the show by including a "well known" physicist. All of which would be fine, except that half the time Kaku pontificates about future developments in science and technology that are so outrageous that they make you want to grind your teeth or throw something at the TV screen or both!

Alas, we've learnt over the years that if Kaku makes an appearance, then the program is usually not worth wasting our time with and we'd be better off watching a couple of episodes of the Big Bang Theory, which at least contains some real physics!:D

bazsa73
05-13-2012, 10:25 AM
Bazinga!

erikals
05-13-2012, 12:41 PM
what i like about his presentations is that they are very informative.
he talks a lot about current technology and where it is going.

time travel / beam-me-up / parallel universes / multiverses are still hypothesis.

also check out ted talk, also a cool watch.

interesting info on crocodiles, bet they wouldn't live forever, but still interesting http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/yoda.gif


oh, and this thread was cool :]
scale of the universe,...
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=128047

 

DigitalSorcery8
05-13-2012, 12:52 PM
Nice to see that some people think that THEY have the "right" conception of reality and others are wrong because they don't agree with them.

Maybe some people should get their own shows to explain just what the "truth" is. Since he's "so outrageous" you can point out every item where he gets it "wrong." :D

erikals
05-13-2012, 12:57 PM
 
it's a good thing though, if we all followed One guys opinion we wouldn't be where we are today :]

 

shrox
05-13-2012, 01:05 PM
Nice to see that some people think that THEY have the "right" conception of reality and others are wrong because they don't agree with them.

Maybe some people should get their own shows to explain just what the "truth" is. Since he's "so outrageous" you can point out every item where he gets it "wrong." :D

My show about why using a Plutonium battery was perfectly fine would only be about 4 minutes long...I could fill the rest with alien/cat/hybrid conspiracy theories.

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff482/shrox2000/ancient-aliens.jpg

DigitalSorcery8
05-13-2012, 01:10 PM
 
it's a good thing though, if we all followed One guys opinion we wouldn't be where we are today :]

 

Very true. :thumbsup:

DigitalSorcery8
05-13-2012, 01:37 PM
My show about why using a Plutonium battery was perfectly fine would only be about 4 minutes long...I could fill the rest with alien/cat/hybrid conspiracy theories.

My wife and I occasionally watch that Ancient Aliens show on H2 - some of it is really quite interesting and plausible. But there are other times - especially in the most recent episodes - that they just go way over the top and make extreme connections where you're left shaking your head wondering HOW they came up with "that one." At least it's entertaining and can provide lots of fodder for storylines.

Maybe we'll know more when the aliens come back on Dec. 21, 2012 and explain everything. :)

jasonwestmas
05-13-2012, 02:13 PM
Where does technology start but within the imagination.

dickbill
05-15-2012, 08:45 AM
A world of nanotechnologies and other high tech facilities for ALL? Dr Kaku is completely out of touch with reality.
The truth however, is in plain sight for whoever wants to see.
I was a teacher in the US public school system long enough to see it. It's a total disaster but hidden from sight by lots of affirmative action and meaningless grading systems. I've witnessed high schoolers incapable of the most simple computation, such as, 2 X3, yes, two times three, incapable of any critical thinking, focus, discipline and anything that the dream world of Dr Kaku requires. I've been schocked to see Middle schoolers 'learning' maths in shoot'em up video games.
Some sarcastic teachers told me that the role of the US public school is not to teach anything, but to teach 'how to socialize'. Well, based on the numerous crimes commited by the youth from these schools, even this mission failed.
Try to correct the course off the current liberal leftist approach od 'education' can only get you fired. I've warned many principals of the abominable conduct of the kids in their school. I told them a good 10% middle schoolers show a pre-criminal behavior and that they are encouraged to do so because of the abscence of consequences. What the kids learn is how to navigate the system by cheating. Ever heard of this book 'The cheating culture' ?
Anyway, some results of this: 20 years ago, the Air Force mentioned that it couldn't find enough personnal with the technical skills to maintain its nuclear arsenal. Nothing has improved since. A recent survey showed the US 'motherhood quality of life' rated equal with some backward thirld worl country and other health related measurments indicate similar trends. A recent article in CNN gave the real number for unemployemt in the US at a staggering 87 millions!
Now, for Dr Kaku's wishes to realize, you need high level scientists, who still exist in the US but the dream stops here, because each of these 'thinkers' have to be backed by 10'doers', good engineers, who each need 10 good technicians, who come from a technically litterate population. It's not gonna happen, because the US is becoming a disfunctioning nation in a way of the brazilian society where the very rich fly in helicopters over the criminal slums. Dr Kaku's show is just a show.

prometheus
05-15-2012, 09:05 AM
Dr Kaku's show is just a show.

Itīs not, I think many things might arrive at that time, but not as much, and not for everyone, and certainly not as cheap as it sounds.

I can understand that schools and education might have dropped, but I think that is for the general public masses (depending on country and itīs economic state), certain high schools and university will most likely continue to bring up genius around the world, even thou Usa might not belong to the top nation in science, that might be focused elsewhere probably, thatīs the way it goes, Usa arent the whole world.

If no extreme event causes major damages to the modern world, I think we will see major improvements in life quality with some help of new advanced technology, I think we are a little better of than some years ago, and I do not see that to stop suddenly.

The power of internet has brought out many bad things, as well as good things, and it is fascinating how research results, sience discoveries and education methods can be communicated in a much faster speed than ever before, heck one can actually learn something new about lightwave or get help with it within minutes thanks to communication forums like this.
That is a factor to consider regarding how fast things develop.

Kaku is surely putting on a show based on intervues of several scientist and his own predictions, and some will surely in the future be considered far out man, but I guess he isnīt really claming this is 100% to be true to happen.


Michael

erikals
05-15-2012, 09:14 AM
agree, and it might not be the US that is the big one in the future.
take China for example.

i don't think he is all that far off, maybe by 10-15 years.
it all depends on tomorrows technology, but not only what has been discovered,
but what hasn't been. imagine the inventions of 2030-2040 that lies ahead, things nobody have thought of yet...

but yes, the lack of social intelligence is a big threat to a good infrastructure, and the future.

jasonwestmas
05-15-2012, 12:15 PM
Millions of people watching a box with light coming out of it projecting an image from thousands of miles away. mmmyeah, that's just ridiculous, crazy even.

Now I can type letters and move a hocky puck around to control the images interactively. What nonsense.

probiner
05-15-2012, 12:16 PM
I would like to add to the pile...
- Economies will be blasted and through the Social Security schemes everybody will become slave of third-parties debts, because er are all just collateral.
- No more beat cops, just UAVs flying around inside cites. Same for most things we are used to have a human interaction.
- No more money or cards or different currencies, or personal documentation papers. Just a chip implanted in you that is your ID, your bank account with a one world currency.

I know I got an easy start :p

erikals
05-15-2012, 12:24 PM
Just a chip implanted in you that is your ID, your bank account with a one world currency.

and there is already a prototype....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSiFXhrxE3Y

 

DigitalSorcery8
05-15-2012, 12:37 PM
Try to correct the course off the current liberal leftist approach od 'education' can only get you fired. I've warned many principals of the abominable conduct of the kids in their school. I told them a good 10% middle schoolers show a pre-criminal behavior and that they are encouraged to do so because of the abscence of consequences. What the kids learn is how to navigate the system by cheating. Ever heard of this book 'The cheating culture' ?

And yet... *I* am a "product" of that approach in public schools. I went to public schools around Westmont, NJ - VERY close to Camden, NJ, one of the WORST cities in the country for crime, etc., and I turned out relatively well. I happen to be a contributing member of society and own my own business. Perhaps if local and state governments STOP slashing budgets for schools and we get rid of "tenure" things may begin to improve. You cannot expect that continually reducing school budgets that things will improve - and the same goes for just throwing money at the problem. There have been several people in this country - most notably the superintendent of schools on the D.C. area - that believe they know how to begin to fix the system. Unfortunately too many on both sides were against her. Considering the USA is 25th in math scores in the world... something needs to be done, but privatization is NOT the answer. A revamp of our school systems AND a national curriculum are needed.

inkpen3d
05-15-2012, 12:51 PM
One possible future:
Due to the apathy of world governments to the impending threat, H5N1 will undergo a mutation in some pig/chicken farm in China which makes it readily transmissible and it will go pandemic and decimate the human population, thus bringing about the collapse of civilisation as we know it and the subsequent entry of the surviving population into a new long and protracted "dark-age".

There will be no second industrial revolution to dig humanity out of this deep rut since over the past century or so we've so thoroughly mined out all the easy-to-get fossil fuels and mineral deposits.

All our hard-won knowledge will be gradually lost and/or be simply irretrievable from existing digital archives. Our almost magical technology will be useless and simply end up as meaningless artefacts for people of the future to puzzle over or wear as costume jewellery.

This is a real and present danger, and currently we have little or no defence against it - yet governments continue to bury their collective heads in the sand and not pour adequate sums of money into combating this threat.

Of course, this particular scenario may never happen but, at the moment, the odds are not stacked in our favour!

All civilisations eventually fail - ours will be no exception - it is just a matter of time, and a question of what, will eventually bring it down.

And as they say, the bigger they are the further and harder they fall!

:D

DigitalSorcery8
05-15-2012, 01:11 PM
One possible future:
Due to the apathy of world governments to the impending threat,

I can EASILY see this happening. You hit the nail on the head - APATHY - of the worlds governments. Maybe this is why we haven't heard from any ET's directly - they all destroyed themselves before they could advance far enough - and human beings are no more intelligent.

Quite sad.

inkpen3d
05-15-2012, 01:11 PM
...A revamp of our school systems AND a national curriculum are needed.

We've had a national curriculum in the UK for many years - the problem is that successive governments have dumbed down the subjects and lowered exam pass criteria (especially in the maths and sciences) in order to achieve ever increasing pass-rates.

It got to such a ridiculous state of affairs that the universities could no longer trust the A-level grades that people attained (everyone and his dog was getting an A or A* grade). Most university courses had to spend the first year simply bringing students up to the required standard to continue with the rest of their course. So you end up with the academically good students wasting a year waiting for the dross to catch up - something has to give, and you inevitably end up with a truncated university course or one that does not go so deeply into the subject matter.

Once this feeds through the system, you end up with graduates leaving university with a weaker understanding of their given subject compared to previous decades. Some of these graduates will go into teaching and you're on a gradually accelerating downward spiral.

Just recently, the UK department of education has fortunately woken up to the situation and has begun raising the bar. My wife, who teaches physics, says that the exams this year are a lot tougher than in previous years and this will hopefully sort the wheat from the chaff.

DigitalSorcery8
05-15-2012, 01:15 PM
We've had a national curriculum in the UK for many years - the problem is that successive governments have dumbed down the subjects and lowered exam pass criteria (especially in the maths and sciences) in order to achieve ever increasing pass-rates.

It got to such a ridiculous state of affairs that the universities could no longer trust the A-level grades that people attained (everyone and his dog was getting an A or A* grade). Most university courses had to spend the first year simply bringing students up to the required standard to continue with the rest of their course. So you end up with the academically good students wasting a year waiting for the dross to catch up - something has to give, and you inevitably end up with a truncated university course or one that does not go so deeply into the subject matter.

Once this feeds through the system, you end up with graduates leaving university with a weaker understanding of their given subject compared to previous decades. Some of these graduates will go into teaching and you're on a gradually accelerating downward spiral.

Just recently, the UK department of education has fortunately woken up to the situation and has begun raising the bar. My wife, who teaches physics, says that the exams this year are a lot tougher than in previous years and this will hopefully sort the wheat from the chaff.

I couldn't agree with you more. And while money isn't the cure-all, you can't keep slashing the budgets and expect to be able to produce the same students you did with twice the budget and less students per classroom. We need that STRICT national curriculum and no exceptions. It may be a severe PIA for many parents and teachers, but in the end it will ultimately be worth it.

inkpen3d
05-15-2012, 01:16 PM
I can EASILY see this happening. You hit the nail on the head - APATHY - of the worlds governments. Maybe this is why we haven't heard from any ET's directly - they all destroyed themselves before they could advance far enough - and human beings are no more intelligent.

Quite sad.

And you in turn hit the nail on the head regarding ET's!

Plus of course, what civilisation wants to devote all it's planetary resources into travelling several trillions of miles to another star system at sub-light speeds (despite what Kaku would probably have you believe) only to find that in the meantime the guys they set out to visit have trashed their planet and gone back to bashing stones together!:D

erikals
05-15-2012, 01:47 PM
All civilizations eventually fail - ours will be no exception :D

unless the civilization spreads, (other solar systems)
as long as the traveling time is extremely long, this would in the end lead to an evolution, where new species are "born".

nothing dies, it transforms. (one way or another)

 

probiner
05-15-2012, 01:53 PM
unless the civilization spreads 

Spreading the fail :D Sorry couldn't resist.

What are the main options to live beyond the earth?... When you talk of other solar systems, sounds like something far far away from today.

DigitalSorcery8
05-15-2012, 01:55 PM
Plus of course, what civilisation wants to devote all it's planetary resources into travelling several trillions of miles to another star system at sub-light speeds (despite what Kaku would probably have you believe) only to find that in the meantime the guys they set out to visit have trashed their planet and gone back to bashing stones together!:D
Well it does depend on what kind of civilization we're talking about. If they've managed to "blend" with machines as we are beginning to do - AND if they managed to survive their animal instincts - then a long space journey would not be out of the question. And that doesn't even take into account the possibility of FTL or wormhole travel. :)


nothing dies, it transforms. (one way or another)
 
Unless we kill ourselves - which seems to be a path we are DETERMINED to take... unfortunately. Our species seems hell-bent on NOT be farsighted enough to see what is right in front of our noses. Many can'rt see it, many do, and some stick their heads in the sand hoping that it will go away. Again... sad.

erikals
05-15-2012, 01:56 PM
an intelligent ET would probably never crash land, it would have too superior tech.
it would never reveal itself or interact with "earthlings".
it would simply observe.

can you believe the drama?!

ET finally lands,...
journalist asks, "is there a God?"
ET answers "No!"

the religious world would go ballistic.

 

erikals
05-15-2012, 02:02 PM
Many can't see it, many do, and some stick their heads in the sand hoping that it will go away. Again... sad.

somewhere along the way crashing into the wall HARD is inevitable in order to wake up.
this is evolution 101. (exception > luck)

we got 7 billion people that can hit that wall, some of them will make it through, i'm sure :]


"the sky is falling!"
nah, it's just a storm.

 

erikals
05-15-2012, 02:11 PM
Spreading the fail :D Sorry couldn't resist.

hehe..! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/biggrin.gif hey, not me :]


What are the main options to live beyond the earth?... When you talk of other solar systems, sounds like something far far away from today.

yes, but before that, Moons / Mars... (Spacestations? Planetoids?)

 

DigitalSorcery8
05-15-2012, 02:22 PM
an intelligent ET would probably never crash land, it would have too superior tech.
it would never reveal itself or interact with "earthlings".
it would simply observe.

can you believe the drama?!

ET finally lands,...
journalist asks, "is there a God?"
ET answers "No!"

the religious world would go ballistic.

 
Nah... the religious leaders would just end up being condescending to the ET's and say "they just don't know what we know... eventually they will see the light of God...."

Some will have their faith detroyed, but many won't. Denial.


somewhere along the way crashing into the wall HARD is inevitable in order to wake up.
this is evolution 101. (exception > luck)

we got 7 billion people that can hit that wall, some of them will make it through, i'm sure :]


"the sky is falling!"
nah, it's just a storm.

 

Yeah... the ones who will make it... will be the rich who can afford to live underground for a LONG time. How sad that they would be the ones to repopulate and "evolve." :eek:

erikals
05-15-2012, 03:14 PM
Yeah... the ones who will make it... will be the rich who can afford to live underground for a LONG time. How sad that they would be the ones to repopulate and "evolve." :eek:

no, completely wrong, not according to science.
 

DigitalSorcery8
05-15-2012, 03:17 PM
no, completely wrong, not according to science.
 
Okay, prove it. :)

erikals
05-15-2012, 03:22 PM
nah, too tired, no short answer for this one, just a long one.

SBowie
05-15-2012, 03:29 PM
ET finally lands,...
journalist asks, "is there a God?"
ET answers "No!"

the religious world would go ballistic.
Or ...

ET answers "Yes. Why, did you have a question for Me?"

Everyone goes ballistic. :hey:

erikals
05-15-2012, 03:30 PM
LoL...!! hehe \:]

too true :]

DigitalSorcery8
05-15-2012, 04:15 PM
nah, too tired, no short answer for this one, just a long one.

Couldn't prove it anyway - it's not like mathematics. Social sciences aren't exact. The rich will be able to BUY into any safe houses and/or have them constructed while the rest of us continue to just survive. They'll have PLENTY of time on their hands to formulate plans while the rest of us will be running around crazy.

inkpen3d
05-16-2012, 03:38 AM
Apologies for raining on everyone's parade but...

The next 100 years will be the time-frame in which humanity will pass through the proverbial eye of the needle - the principle self-inflicted issues that we will collectively have to deal with are:

The world's population expanding to 9 or 12 billion (it was only 3 billion when I was born just over 50 years ago).
The concomitant demands on the planet's already over-stretched resources including: farm land, water, the depletion of the world's reserves of fossil fuels and mineral deposits.
Destruction of the planet's natural environment as the ballooning world population swarms over what remains.


Alas, none of the technological changes Kaku waxes lyrical about will directly address any of these problems - they are simply trinkets and toys that will increasingly distract and amuse us as the world falls to pieces around our ears.

Likewise, the idea that we can colonise the planets in the solar system and thus not put all our eggs in one basket: Well, I used to think that way, but have come to realise that this is simply not a viable solution for the following reasons:

The time-frame to terraform Mars or one of the moons of Jupiter is way beyond our current technical abilities, would consume a monumental amount of money and resources, and in any case such a project takes centuries, if not thousands of years to complete. So it is not going to get us out of our current fix.
The reason that the other planets of the solar system are devoid of life is simply down to physics - they are either too close or too far away from the sun, and/or they are too small (e.g. as in the case of Mars) to hold on to a protective and sustaining earth-like atmosphere. Even if you could terraform one of these planets/moons, it is an inherently unstable system - you would be constantly having to pump massive amounts of energy and resources into just maintaining the environment using vast systems of sophisticated technology. Unlike on the earth, which has a self-sustaining environmental system, if civilisation ever failed on a terraformed planet that would spell a relatively quick and messy end of that human outpost.


The up-shot is that, at least for the foreseeable future, we are stuck with what we have got. We have to treat this planet for what it is: as something that is a wondrous, beautiful, delicate and precious entity that is most probably unique in the galaxy, if not the whole universe. Collectively, the human race has to change it ways with a sense of utmost urgency, otherwise our fate - and that of numerous animal and planet species that we will drag down with us into oblivion - is pretty much sealed!

erikals
05-16-2012, 04:50 AM
well, sort of,...

scientists say it will be 9-12 bill yes, but for then to decline(!) < that's important too.
lack of power will, in not too long, be thing of the past > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDXqikzUwBU

so "unfortunately" things are not that bad, the human race could have benefited from this challenge.

though if you really want a challenge, look into the infrastructure in 3rd world countries and try to crack that nut.
what will you do to make people corporate in a "harmonic" way?

 

erikals
05-16-2012, 05:03 AM
The time-frame to terraform Mars or one of the moons of Jupiter is way beyond our current technical abilities, would consume a monumental amount of money and resources, and in any case such a project takes centuries, if not thousands of years to complete. So it is not going to get us out of our current fix.

who's needs terraforming? :]
all you need is capsules. plenty of iron on Mars for the robots to play with.


The reason that the other planets of the solar system are devoid of life is simply down to physics - they are either too close or too far away from the sun.

not true, besides, a common mistake is to assume that life has to be silicone-based.
heck, just look at Alien, acid-blood, dang!

 

inkpen3d
05-16-2012, 05:44 AM
well, sort of,...

scientists say it will be 9-12 bill yes, but for then to decline(!) < that's important too.
lack of power will, in not too long, be thing of the past > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDXqikzUwBU

so "unfortunately" things are not that bad, the human race could have benefited from this challenge.

though if you really want a challenge, look into the infrastructure in 3rd world countries and try to crack that nut.
what will you do to make people corporate in a "harmonic" way?



Yes, but the problem is that we will hit 9 to 12 billion and it's the period during which you have that vast population that things can go very horribly wrong.

If you look at the classic population curve for a species undergoing exponential growth, such as we are at the moment, you get to a point where the ecosystem (in our case, the whole planet) can no longer sustain that level of population and you get a catastrophic crash. The cause of that crash can be many and varied and in many instances is not down to just one factor.

The list of problems associated with such a huge human population are endless, but the main ones of concern are: growing enough food to feed all those extra hungry mouths (we can't even do that successfully with 7 billion), competition for land and resources (we're just beginning to see the early signs of conflict now, but this will only get much worse), finding land to house the increased population (exacerbated by sea-level rise inundating coastal centres of population), encroachment of human populations into the remaining natural ecosystems, increased pollution, increased risks of pandemic diseases, and so on...

Regarding fusion energy, as they say, it's always 50 years in the future (as was the case when I was born in the nineteen fifties)! ITER is just another experimental facility and by the time they get proper commercial units up and running we'll have already suffered the consequences of an energy-crunch! If governments were serious about fusion energy they would instigate a Manhattan-style project to get it up and running a.s.a.p. instead of letting the projects drift on from decade to decade. Anyway, more energy is not quite the panacea to our problems, we currently waste vast amounts of energy - e.g. you can quite literally see that on the night-side of the earth: giga-watts of light energy are pouring out into space and providing a light show for astronauts on the ISS!

No, I have to disagree - I think humanity really is teetering on a knife edge at the moment and we don't need people like Kaku looking through rose-tinted (technology will fix everything) spectacles and lulling people into a false sense of security. We need to grow up, stop playing with the (technological) toys, and get really serious about fixing things before it is too late!

As I've said before, we've got to the critical stage now where we can only have one shot at a truly advanced civilisation - if we fail now, there almost certainly won't be a second chance in the future!

inkpen3d
05-16-2012, 07:29 AM
who's needs terraforming? :]
all you need is capsules. plenty of iron on Mars for the robots to play with.


I was of course assuming that you'd want/need to have a viable ecosystem for humans to live as normal lives as possible, for as long as possible, and to avoid the pitfalls of living in small closed fragile systems such as domes or capsules. The latter would not only restrict the size of the population, but would need to be constantly maintained, and are vulnerable to natural or man-made disasters (including terrorism). Basically, domes/capsules are an even more unstable system in which to exist for hundreds of thousands or even millions of years - which I assume is what we are thinking of here.



not true, besides, a common mistake is to assume that life has to be silicone-based.
heck, just look at Alien, acid-blood, dang!


As far as I am aware neither Mercury, Venus, Mars, the moons of Jupiter or Saturn have rich ecological systems teeming with life such as here on earth. At most Mars would have simple bacteria eking out a living beneath the surface, and maybe Europa and Callisto again have simple bacteria, or just maybe multi-cellular life, living off core thermal vent energy sources in the sub-surface oceans beneath the thick surface ice layers.

Silicon life is a myth and is simply the fodder of SciFi stories/movies - it is a common mistake to confuse fiction for fact!;) Silicon simply does not form the stable long-chain molecules (e.g. analogues of DNA, RNA, proteins) that you find in carbon-based life - I have a degree in biochemistry and I just cannot see any way for silicon to form the basis of the complex self-replicating chemistry required for life.

There are some ideas knocking around that life maybe got started here on earth via clay minerals, or inside microscopic cavities in the mineral walls of under-sea thermal vents. Here the minerals formed a substrate upon which complex self-replicating biochemical reactions would have first got started, but things rapidly (on geological time-scales) moved away from these mineral substrates and became free-living cells. And anyway, it was still carbon-based chemistry that did all the interesting stuff and won out!:D

erikals
05-16-2012, 07:38 AM
well, i disagree on a whole lot of points so i'm just gonna leave it there.

i do agree on this though, humanity is in for a challenge :]
(then again, when wasn't it)


over and out.
 

inkpen3d
05-16-2012, 07:59 AM
well, i disagree on a whole lot of points so i'm just gonna leave it there.

i do agree on this though, humanity is in for a challenge :]
(then again, when wasn't it)

over and out.


I concur - it's going to be a challenging future.

Since we agree to disagree on a host of things - I agree with you that we best call it a day - good debating with you though! :thumbsup::D

erikals
05-16-2012, 08:42 AM
http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/047.gif :]

DigitalSorcery8
05-16-2012, 02:51 PM
No, I have to disagree - I think humanity really is teetering on a knife edge at the moment and we don't need people like Kaku looking through rose-tinted (technology will fix everything) spectacles and lulling people into a false sense of security. We need to grow up, stop playing with the (technological) toys, and get really serious about fixing things before it is too late!

Yeah... I guess people should give up on seeing things in a positive light and instead concentrate on doom and gloom. Yeah... right - not. If you don't have people like Kaku looking towards a bright future, ALL you have are the doom and gloom sayers. With the attitude you're portraying, we should NEVER have continued the space program because that money could have been better spent on the problems we face every day - poverty, crime, food, etc. Who needs people seeing a positive future? Who needs SOMETHING to live for?

The FACT is... dreamers are ALWAYS necessary. If people don't see a positive future, what the hell is there worth living for? I was born shortly after you were, and I certainly don't see things as you do. Yes, we have serious problems - and we CAN solve them. Will we? I have my doubts, but I do know that we are ABLE to solve them. We can easily produce enough food in the world for everyone, the question is do we have the WILL to do it? And yes, technology can do wondrous things when used properly. In fact, technology will be the ONLY thing that will help us to move forward and upward to help us deal with the problems we face now and in the future.

And you don't need planets to move the human race off-world. Large space stations could be constructed that would house millions of people - near Earth or anywhere in the solar system and beyond. When nanotechnology evolves sufficiently, these things will be far easier and less expensive to produce - not to mention the incredible medical advances it will bring. In fact, mature nanotech will probably be the single most important human advancement since the harnessing of fire - far more than splitting the atom. The threading of the needle will be... can we survive this advancement?

inkpen3d
05-17-2012, 03:11 AM
Yeah... I guess people should give up on seeing things in a positive light and instead concentrate on doom and gloom. Yeah... right - not. If you don't have people like Kaku looking towards a bright future, ALL you have are the doom and gloom sayers. With the attitude you're portraying, we should NEVER have continued the space program because that money could have been better spent on the problems we face every day - poverty, crime, food, etc. Who needs people seeing a positive future? Who needs SOMETHING to live for?

The FACT is... dreamers are ALWAYS necessary. If people don't see a positive future, what the hell is there worth living for? I was born shortly after you were, and I certainly don't see things as you do. Yes, we have serious problems - and we CAN solve them. Will we? I have my doubts, but I do know that we are ABLE to solve them. We can easily produce enough food in the world for everyone, the question is do we have the WILL to do it? And yes, technology can do wondrous things when used properly. In fact, technology will be the ONLY thing that will help us to move forward and upward to help us deal with the problems we face now and in the future.

And you don't need planets to move the human race off-world. Large space stations could be constructed that would house millions of people - near Earth or anywhere in the solar system and beyond. When nanotechnology evolves sufficiently, these things will be far easier and less expensive to produce - not to mention the incredible medical advances it will bring. In fact, mature nanotech will probably be the single most important human advancement since the harnessing of fire - far more than splitting the atom. The threading of the needle will be... can we survive this advancement?

Okay, yes, I agree that I can come across as very negative when I really get going - my poor wife will testify to that!:D But it is born out of a sense of frustration at what I have, and continue to see, happening to the world.

Like you, I believe that with careful and coordinated management of the situation we are fully capable of successfully negotiating the next critical 100 years or so - but the petty self-interests of individuals, corporations and national governments doesn't fill me with overwhelming confidence.

Maybe I've been a bit harsh in my criticism of Kaku. We definitely do need people who are blue-sky thinkers, but they in turn have a responsibility not to over exaggerate - which I think Kaku has a tendency to do at times - as this misleads lay-people into believing that all our problems will be taken care of by advances in technology, whereas in many cases the real solutions reside in people fundamentally changing their attitudes, the way they live, and the way their governments function in a global context.

As a tribal species we seem more content to allow vast sums of time, effort and money to be poured into killing or dominating each other, rather than using these same resources to fix the root-problems that in many cases lead to such conflicts in the first place.

Regarding space exploration: I have, and always will be, an enthusiastic advocate of it - it is truly fascinating what we're discovering about the solar system and the universe beyond - and is well worth the money being spent on it. However, I still maintain that fanciful ideas of setting up human colonies either on other bodies in the solar system, or in vast space habitats, would, for the foreseeable future, be a huge waste of resources and in any case, being artificial constructs prone to the laws of entropy, would be doomed to failure as a long-term solution to the continuation of the human race. We have been gifted (and are stuck with) this wonderful and beautiful planet - most probably unique in this galactic neighbourhood - and we should not divert our attention and resources away from preserving and maintaining it for future generations.:)

dickbill
05-17-2012, 11:06 AM
You want to know the near future? look at the not so distant past.
In the 70's, the scientists who were involved in the development of the Transgenic crops guarantied that using transgenic agriculture will be of tremendous help to alleviate world wide food crisis. It was sold to the medias as a done thing. Remember, in that time Transgenesis was hot.
Any hint that it indeed fixed the food crisis, or anything else for that matter, in thirld world countries, or even that it was used for that original 'humanitarian ' purpose, anybody, hmmm ?
Open your eyes to see where we are going. The same people who advocated these 'humanitarian' scientific advancement have supported 'humanitarian' wars, as a most normal things that nobody even discuss. Heck, with a little bit of lobbying Bernard Henry Levy alone could throw the entire french country into a war against Libya, a country whose leader was received in Paris on the red carpet by a delighted Sarkozy barely 2 years before. The trends now? high frequency trading, space privatization and the same elite people who advocated humanitarian science and wars now seriously think of an 'humanitarian' way to control the world overpopulation, that means US.
Kaku is just a show.

shrox
05-17-2012, 02:01 PM
You want to know the near future? look at the not so distant past.
In the 70's, the scientists who were involved in the development of the Transgenic crops guarantied that using transgenic agriculture will be of tremendous help to alleviate world wide food crisis. It was sold to the medias as a done thing. Remember, in that time Transgenesis was hot.
Any hint that it indeed fixed the food crisis, or anything else for that matter, in thirld world countries, or even that it was used for that original 'humanitarian ' purpose, anybody, hmmm ?
Open your eyes to see where we are going. The same people who advocated these 'humanitarian' scientific advancement have supported 'humanitarian' wars, as a most normal things that nobody even discuss. Heck, with a little bit of lobbying Bernard Henry Levy alone could throw the entire french country into a war against Libya, a country whose leader was received in Paris on the red carpet by a delighted Sarkozy barely 2 years before. The trends now? high frequency trading, space privatization and the same elite people who advocated humanitarian science and wars now seriously think of an 'humanitarian' way to control the world overpopulation, that means US.
Kaku is just a show.

And now Monsanto is suing farmers who's unmodified crops were pollinated/contaminated by pollen from Monsanto brand modified crops. They claim copyright infringement...

DigitalSorcery8
05-17-2012, 02:39 PM
Okay, yes, I agree that I can come across as very negative when I really get going - my poor wife will testify to that!:D But it is born out of a sense of frustration at what I have, and continue to see, happening to the world.
Believe me... I'm completely with you on the frustration part. It seems that every year we get further and further from ANY possible great future. Unfortunately, with so few (and greedy) controlling so much, it's virtually impossible to move towards that positive future for the masses.

Like you, I believe that with careful and coordinated management of the situation we are fully capable of successfully negotiating the next critical 100 years or so - but the petty self-interests of individuals, corporations and national governments doesn't fill me with overwhelming confidence.
Yup, as I said above, these greedy people don't want prosperity for ALL, just their chosen few. Apparently that is the ultimate problem of Capitalism - uncontrolled/unregulated greed.

Maybe I've been a bit harsh in my criticism of Kaku. We definitely do need people who are blue-sky thinkers, but they in turn have a responsibility not to over exaggerate - which I think Kaku has a tendency to do at times - as this misleads lay-people into believing that all our problems will be taken care of by advances in technology, whereas in many cases the real solutions reside in people fundamentally changing their attitudes, the way they live, and the way their governments function in a global context.
IMO Mr. Kaku sees the BEST that we can do. We've got plenty of other people in the media and elsewhere who can "slap us down" to reality. I certainly don't want Mr. Kaku to start spouting realistic negativity - we've got enough of that already. I love to hear the positive viewpoint he puts forth because if everyone bases the future ONLY on reality, it certainly can't look much bleaker.

As a tribal species we seem more content to allow vast sums of time, effort and money to be poured into killing or dominating each other, rather than using these same resources to fix the root-problems that in many cases lead to such conflicts in the first place.
THIS is one of the biggest problems we face, and (again, IMO) there are two things at work here. The first is greed concerning the resources (i.e. OIL and minerals) and the second is religion. I don't see how we're going to be able to do anything about either of them in the short term. Then again, maybe that's all we do have - the short term. As optimistic as I often am, I seriously see us destroying ourselves due to those two obstacles - greed and religion. It's all too easy to see some lunatic radical Islamists getting themselves intentionally infected with H1N1 and landing in every major city in the world - pandemic on the scale we have never seen.

Regarding space exploration: I have, and always will be, an enthusiastic advocate of it - it is truly fascinating what we're discovering about the solar system and the universe beyond - and is well worth the money being spent on it. However, I still maintain that fanciful ideas of setting up human colonies either on other bodies in the solar system, or in vast space habitats, would, for the foreseeable future, be a huge waste of resources and in any case, being artificial constructs prone to the laws of entropy, would be doomed to failure as a long-term solution to the continuation of the human race. We have been gifted (and are stuck with) this wonderful and beautiful planet - most probably unique in this galactic neighbourhood - and we should not divert our attention and resources away from preserving and maintaining it for future generations.:)
And yet if we did create that large space colony - either in a huge space habitat or on the moon - the chances of the survival of the human race are increased. As expensive as it would be, imagine completing such a colony and shortly thereafter a large asteroid obliterated all life on Earth? Ignoring moving into space would have been the end of humanity. But building just one self-sustaining colony would give us just one more chance. The of course does not necessarily mean we deserve another chance, but if we don't move into space soon I don't think we do deserve it. We need enough people and power with the foresight and vision to move the best of what we are into space and into the future. If we don't, then we have only ourselves to blame for our extinction.

dickbill
05-17-2012, 03:40 PM
And now Monsanto is suing farmers who's unmodified crops were pollinated/contaminated by pollen from Monsanto brand modified crops. They claim copyright infringement...

ah ah, well done Monsento. At least they are consistent with themselves. Their job is to make money and that's what they do.

silviotoledo
05-18-2012, 05:42 PM
Consider 2012 will change our ideas about the future, probably...

So, wait till 2012 finish to predict something :)


Don't read bellow:
-----------------
scientists says the sollar activity this year may burn all the microchips and send we back to past centuries in terms of technology. This also may change comets and asteroids routs that may collide with earth.

NASA lied about all the pictures about the moon. Just get the pictures and do photoshop work to see hidden structures they hidded from us.

2 astronauts said there's OVNIS everywhere on the moon.

A lot of people think we where created by aliens and they're the Gods. They say they will return this year based on several proofs in the past. There's too much proof people from past did things too advanced for us actually and Byble tells about the fallen angels that were in the earth.


Maya ( not the AD software ) and Sumerian people said ANANUKI will back end of 2012. They had a perfect space callendar and knowledge about planets, maybe they will be right.

FEMA is constructing a lot of concentrantion fields. This generally comes before a war.

Illuminaty conspirations appear everywhere.

NASA pronnunced oficially that everybody be carefull about disasters in 2012.

Mondex chip is advancing everywhere, like Bible predict 2000 years before to be in the front and in the right hand.


:)

shrox
05-18-2012, 06:55 PM
...NASA pronnunced oficially that everybody be carefull about disasters in 2012...

NASA announced the exact opposite...

silviotoledo
05-18-2012, 06:57 PM
So, what is this?

http://youtu.be/fWJs_oLaR7Q

It seems NASA is saying " be prepared for disasters in 2012 " :)

shrox
05-18-2012, 06:59 PM
So, what is this?

http://youtu.be/fWJs_oLaR7Q

Common sense disaster preparation. I live in California...we do that everyday!

By the way, that is a commercial for a stored food company!!!

shrox
05-18-2012, 07:01 PM
http://2012-contacts.com/

It's got good graphics, it must be true!!!

silviotoledo
05-18-2012, 07:06 PM
http://youtu.be/mOVLRdpZqHk


That would make sense. Some kind of war comming.

Why too much FEMA Concentration Camps in earthquake area? In Cali, where you live Shrox :)!



Cool! Need to see the graphics! Ets and conspirancy are great jobs for Graphics artists!

shrox
05-18-2012, 07:09 PM
http://youtu.be/mOVLRdpZqHk


That would make sense. Some kind of war comming.

Why too much FEMA Concentration Camps in earthquake area? In Cali, where you live Shrox :)!



Cool! Need to see the graphics! Ets and conspirancy are great jobs for Graphics artists!

The FEMA stuff might be true, but that's not because of some predicted disaster in 2012, that's just a long standing plan of world domination coming to fruition.

DigitalSorcery8
05-18-2012, 07:15 PM
Actually, NASA has said that 2012 and 2013 are to have increased solar activity - the suns peak (solar maximum) of it's 11 year cycle. We've had at least one massive solar storm already this year (remember the airlines redirecting flights?) and there will be more.

silviotoledo
05-18-2012, 07:19 PM
Something not good will happen this year. Not only because it was " predicted " but because too many people believes in that predictions and the conspirancy people ( Iluminaty, New Order, Elite, ... ) stablished this as the age to act.

May Solar activity warm my lightwave dongle?

It would be a warm light wave killing lightwave.

OFF
05-18-2012, 09:28 PM
The Future of the Humankind: The Dictatorship of Conscience or the Tyranny of Bible Owners
http://dotu.ru/2006/09/28/20060928_cur_moment0957/
and
http://dotu.ru/category/in-english/

erikals
05-19-2012, 03:40 AM
2 astronauts said there's OVNIS everywhere on the moon...

2 astronauts miss the attention http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/wink.gif


scientists says the solar activity this year may burn all the microchips and send we back to past centuries in terms of technology.

this is actually interesting, it never happened, but maybe it can?...
well, good news for Intel / AMD :]
not so good for hospitals :l

 

shrox
05-19-2012, 12:47 PM
2 astronauts miss the attention http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/wink.gif



this is actually interesting, it never happened, but maybe it can?...
well, good news for Intel / AMD :]
not so good for hospitals :l

 

Old pre-computer cars will still be running. As will bicycles.

erikals
05-19-2012, 01:17 PM
 
go Cuba! ;]

 

Shnoze Shmon
05-19-2012, 01:31 PM
http://youtu.be/mOVLRdpZqHk
That would make sense. Some kind of war comming.

Why too much FEMA Concentration Camps in earthquake area? In Cali, where you live Shrox :)!


No no you've got it all wrong! Those are POW camps.

Luxemburg is going to invade China and they need someplace to put all the prisoners. The US has kindly offered to assist in this matter.

What is not known is that the Republicans and Democrats will be competing to be the party that sets them all free to vote on election day.

The Republicans will supply the photo IDs and the Demacrats will bus them to the polling places.

This is happening because all of the illegal... ah er I mean undocumented workers who cant find jobs are all heading back to Mexico.

So I'd buy stock in rice if I were you.
:beerchug:

DigitalSorcery8
05-19-2012, 01:42 PM
This is happening because all of the illegal... ah er I mean undocumented workers who cant find jobs are all heading back to Mexico.

Also known as "self-deportation." :)

prometheus
05-21-2012, 12:44 PM
I wonder when cdīs and dvdīs will be gone? I think Kaku mentioned that we will soon have our personal Users manual with a Dvd content of your own ..But that might be wrong in such case thereīs a replacement for Dvdīs at that time.

Anyway, Technology is mighty interesting and might serve us well as a tool to improve our lives, I wish it could serve as a tool to raise the humanity level of understanding each other, our environment etc.
So regardless technology, we need to evolve as human beings in terms of how we communicate and understand the world.

Communication devices,media,internet,computers could serve us enourmously well, and I believe there are researches and scientists sitting on goldmines in terms of what could be applied on our society in order to raise it to that next level.

I believe thereīs a huge problem thou, even thou the highly educated elite of scientist,politicians, psychologist might know this..the vast majority and common people do not know what would be the right route to take.

A scientific breaktrough wich would let us learn things in enourmous speed, something like downloading complete math education to highest exams..and the same with biology,physics,sociology, medicin etc ..to have that being imprinted in to our brain cells within minutes or similar would be ..wow.

But..that would not mean so much if Itīs only for a couple of fortunate selected people, this advanced learning would have to be brought to the masses for us all to be able to understand ourself, our environment etc..when the masses are enlightened, I would say we will raise above anything ever seen in history, and what we could accomplish at that level is for me quite mindboggling.

Im all for free learning ..bring it on..bring it out to the masses, skip the profit of educational material and let us fly rocket sky high in terms of how we communicate with ourself, each other and understanding the world and thus how to live in it.

Ps..well for the time being, I do recognize peopleīs need for earning their living doing video tutorials..heck I might join in:) But Itīs nice to have some dreams of what might come.

Michael

erikals
05-21-2012, 03:21 PM
 
films are a fantastic opportunity to show what the future might hold.
so, go on, make that movie... \:]

 

prometheus
05-22-2012, 10:02 AM
 
films are a fantastic opportunity to show what the future might hold.
so, go on, make that movie... \:]

 

Minority Report did predict some things, even crimes:D
Cool lexus car thou...and the flying police vehicles, those were scary.

Michael