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View Full Version : Is there a REAL LENS setting for a RED CAMERA?



PeteS
05-08-2012, 07:27 PM
Wanted to render off a sequence, but have it match the look of a RED. Seems al the lenses supplied by default in real lens are still cameras. Why would there not be any film lenses??...or did I miss somehting?

Dexter2999
05-08-2012, 08:10 PM
RED cameras can use PL mount lenses but the Canon lenses are wildly popular with the users. These are the same lenses used with the 5D MKII so they are still lenses.

Some people are collecting still Zeiss glass and having the stops removed by a guy to be used as Primes. Again, stills glass.
http://www.ducloslenses.com/products/zeiss-zf-2-cine-mod

PeteS
05-08-2012, 08:42 PM
RED cameras can use PL mount lenses but the Canon lenses are wildly popular with the users. These are the same lenses used with the 5D MKII so they are still lenses.

Some people are collecting still Zeiss glass and having the stops removed by a guy to be used as Primes. Again, stills glass.
http://www.ducloslenses.com/products/zeiss-zf-2-cine-mod

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I was defaulting to the Canons. Still would think they'd have some default film lenses. But no biggie.

Now I'm wondering is I should add the lens effects in post.

Dexter2999
05-08-2012, 08:54 PM
I see your point. If you want LW to fit into professional pipelines, professional lenses would seen to be a must.

Panavision
Arri
Cooke
RED (they do make their own lenses)

would all seem to be logical additions to the Real Lens library.

PeteS
05-09-2012, 09:38 AM
I see your point. If you want LW to fit into professional pipelines, professional lenses would seen to be a must.

Panavision
Arri
Cooke
RED (they do make their own lenses)

would all seem to be logical additions to the Real Lens library.

Exactly. Though, this is all CG, so, it's more about giving it a look. As the either lenses would work, but would be interesting to emulate other lenses.

Going to do it all in post I decided. Thanks for the input.

TalleyJC
05-09-2012, 10:13 AM
Hey Pete... Liberty3d's Ubercam (1.9) has a radial shift Camera... Talk to Kat and Kiko

Dexter2999
05-09-2012, 10:16 AM
Well, yes and no as to the look.

I think having a library of the actual lenses is about matching lens barrel distortion and bocha (sp?) The idea being to have renders match the plate footage as closely as possible.

Or at least that was the impression I got when they first rolled the feature.

m.d.
05-09-2012, 11:22 AM
the problem with a real lens database is there are huge differences between lenses of the same type....some of the fujinon cinema lenses are notorious for this.....and these are $90k PL mount lenses

I view this as more of an "effect"

To properly match an existing lens you would need the distortion values for said lens at said focal length and apply that distortion at comp time....the lens distortion is usually applied at the comp stage if matching with live footage. All the tracking programs will give you high quality distortion values

Otherwise it is a nice out of the box 'effect' to emulate various lenses and get less of a cg look

Dexter2999
05-09-2012, 12:16 PM
Yeah, and there are probably all kinds of issues with the lenses.

But with new lenses with the i/Technology, it would be an intriguing idea to create a repository with lens deformations in it. You get a file with the data and your software could ask to go online and find the file for that particular lens.

Not to mention the other data held in the iTech data.

DrStrik9
05-09-2012, 01:38 PM
As there have never been any updates since the introduction, I think the Real Lens Camera is in danger to become another soon to be forgotten curiosity like many tools in LW. :) Sure, for some "natural distortion style" effects it will be used still, but the original idea - to be able to perfectly match CG elements to real footage, is going to fade away. Pity. Wasn't there a tool to create your own lenses, sort of? Denis?
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/RadialShift_Camera.html

How about a "Save the Real Lens Camera! Add newer lenses!" poll?
I think some more features would be nice too - not always will you be supplied with the uncropped footage, and the center might be off as well. No idea how that could be implemented or measured, without a filmed reference grid you'd be surely lost... and so on and on... whatever, seems to be out of the development cycle anyway. :)

This is kind of sad, how we seem to get these "unkeepable promises," in the form of "cool-sounding" tools that aren't kept up to date. -- But they DO sell more copies and updates to LW when they're first introduced! :D

Aside from all the lens variation and cropping/centering issues when attempting to match CG to footage, for Pete's need (and mine), NT should be updating these tools with new cameras and lenses with each LW update. Otherwise, as you say, it's just another "soon to be forgotten curiosity." :(

I looked into DP_RadialShift, but the originator's data sets are gone, and for me anyway, trying to make sense of what's out there now is a bit confusing, and it's all a year old. http://panotools.sourceforge.net/

PeteS
05-09-2012, 05:08 PM
Doing some searches on late studio reels, it seems that this process is usually done in post. Which is what I will do.
The whole point, for me, was the imperfections. Just like film grain, micro edges, DOF. Adding al the little imperfections is what makes it look so real.
Anyhow, yea, post effect it is!

joelaff
05-09-2012, 06:05 PM
Because lenses vary individually, and camera do to (with regard to the alignment of the lens to the film plane/sensor) most people just match any of these aberrations in the compositing stage. Is it better to do it at render time? Sure, but it will never match precisely, and it is so much easier to fix it in the comp. Depending on what you are comping in, like say a small item moving through a wide shot, you may never notice the lack of any distortion, and a slight blur in the post may be enough to make it blend in. On the other hand sometimes you have to apply some form of distortion, and add vignetting both of brightness and of blurriness towards the edges.

ianr
05-10-2012, 05:10 AM
I agreed with Dex,I say.
Lobby Mr.Powers with the quote below!

Quote: I see your point. If you want LW to fit into professional pipelines, professional lenses would seen to be a must.
Panavision
Arri
Cooke
RED (they do make their own lenses)
would all seem to be logical additions to the Real Lens library.

Red_Oddity
05-10-2012, 05:22 AM
No lens is build equal, and you'll need to do your own distortion models (record distortion grids after or before shooting, pass that trough tracking software (e.g., 3DEqualizer) and use the generated model in a lens distortion tool in your compositing software (e.g., Fusion))

Also, as far as i know, i/Tech lenses don't record lens distortions, just basic stuff like F/T-stops, focal length, etc.

Dexter2999
05-10-2012, 11:34 AM
Also, as far as i know, i/Tech lenses don't record lens distortions, just basic stuff like F/T-stops, focal length, etc.

I was just thinking that especially with PL mount lenses that the vast majority of them are rentals. Meaning a number of productions are using the not just same model of lens but the actual same physical lens.

If one either encoded in the iTech data or even just camera report data, the serial number of the lens. Then instead of having to build each model every time, a user would build the distortion model for a lens then "donate" that model to database for other users to be able to call up.

Yes, I'm talking about a database of tens of thousands of lenses.

m.d.
05-10-2012, 01:28 PM
just remember though...a zoom lens has different distortion throughout it's zoom range....
so 10,000 lenses becomes 1 million different focal lengths....

its a nice idea but probably zero chance of happening....
I for myself am making a catalog of all my lenses and would be happy to post these to an online database (maybe i'll make a web site....hmmm) but having it incorporated into the iLens database only helps with a handful of lenses right now...as the vast majority of cameras and lenses do not support this.