PDA

View Full Version : Vue infinite/xstream 10.5



millsron
05-06-2012, 10:05 PM
Anyone seen it yet? I have vue 10 infinite and the upgrade does not impress me as for as new features go. I was wondering if I missed something?

Ron

Phil
05-07-2012, 07:23 AM
It's in pre-release at the moment, but I've not taken a look yet. Some of it looked interesting, but I wonder if we're going to get the larger previews that have appeared in Ozone 6. I didn't see mention of that.

The ecosystem stacking and new terrain engine would be welcome. I'm disappointed that it seems there's still no fundamental upgrade to SolidGrowth and the shipping plants.

millsron
05-07-2012, 03:31 PM
The only feature that I would use is that they added the ability to rotate the road splines so you could bank the road on a curve. While that helps, it should have been part of 10. What they should have added is a way to join splines together so that road intersections and multiple lanes could be added.

They also need a major redo for LW imports. Their ability to handle models sucks in polygon display and texturing.

Ron

Greenlaw
05-07-2012, 04:10 PM
Stackable instances sounds very interesting to me. I have 10.5 but haven't had time to check out the new stuff yet.

Regarding preview size, I don't know anything about Ozone but Vue's previewer has been resizeable for many years--it's just awkward how you have to do it. Or are you talking about something else?

G.

Phil
05-07-2012, 06:26 PM
Here's what I was talking about. So far as I know, this isn't possible in xStream :

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102934&stc=1&thumb=0&d=1332684207

millsron
05-09-2012, 02:13 PM
Greenlaw,

I would appreciate an update on the instancing you mention as well as info as to what angular splines are and how they are used. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Ron

wolfiboy
07-05-2012, 04:08 AM
I own Vue xStream V8 for LW 9.6 . In this version FiberFx worked, but it was not possible to save the scene-file with FiberFx activated. When it was loaded LW (or Vue) crashed. So I had to add the FiberFx-config-file everytime by hand and take care that I don't save the scene.
The same is sadly tru for Vue 10.5 . Just tried it with the PLE today. But what really frustrated me: FiberFx is even not rendered properly. See attached pictures. Looks funny somehow.
Does anybody know if this can be fixed?

3dworks
07-18-2012, 04:22 AM
so, anyone is using xstream 10.5 with LW11 yet? i'm still at version 10.0 and did not upgrade yet because the new vue features are not justifying the cost for me.

however, if someone could try 10.5: did the xstream plugin develop somehow? what is most limiting imo is that VPR cannot be used for interactively setting atmospheres etc., because you always are forced to close VPR before editing any element of the vue scene. is there any improvement with this?

prometheus
10-29-2012, 06:05 AM
Here's what I was talking about. So far as I know, this isn't possible in xStream :

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102934&stc=1&thumb=0&d=1332684207

Uhhmm..not sure., in vue xstream/vue environment that has been there for years as mentioned, you just have to resize the previewer by dragging the window, but inside of the Lightwave environment is what you mean?

Greenlaw
10-29-2012, 01:45 PM
BTW, Vue 11 was just released for registered users. I downloaded it the other night but haven't had a chance to try it yet. The main feature is a particle system.

We use xStream at work but I think we were still using 10.0 the last time we used it on a job. We have 10.5 at work but I can't remember if that was used on the Star Wars stuff we did or if that was still 10.0. FWIW, at home I found that 10.5 (Infinite but same for xStream) fixed an import problem where the origin of the object was being misread--this was for almost any object types including .lwo. Sorry for the sparseness of this info but I just haven't used Vue much this past year.

G.

Phil
10-30-2012, 01:44 PM
Not quite. It's a pre-release, and lacks any ability to use rendernodes (in xStream mode). Hopefully they will get the rendernodes issued at the same time as the main release this time, avoiding any downtime for seamless upgrades.

- - - Updated - - -


Uhhmm..not sure., in vue xstream/vue environment that has been there for years as mentioned, you just have to resize the previewer by dragging the window, but inside of the Lightwave environment is what you mean?

Yes, inside LW - I'm not aware that it's resizable in that mode.

Greenlaw
10-30-2012, 02:30 PM
Not quite. It's a pre-release, and lacks any ability to use rendernodes (in xStream mode).
Ah, I see. I use Infinite at home and I'm guessing native Vue rendering okay with standard render cows. We don't have the update for xStream at work yet but I imagine we'll hold off until we can use render nodes with it.

G.

Phil
11-06-2012, 07:23 AM
It's out now. For people on maintenance, they also sent a scary note that the license server requires an upgrade (for floating licenses, including rendernodes) and that this is 199 USD. However, after having mentioned this, they then say that maintenance folks are being given it for free (as they should). I'm sending them a reply that this kind of note really doesn't leave the best of impressions.

No rendernode serial yet, sadly.

wolfiboy
11-08-2012, 01:55 AM
I have to agree with Phil: e-on doesn't leave the best of impression. I just wanted to upgrade from version 8 (upgraded in 2010 from version7) but it isn't possible anymore. :devil:
It seems that I just missed the upgrade-possibility by one day! I sent them an e-mail and asked if this would be possible but got the negative response "This is just not possible". Maybe they are to much in the Hollywood-business and don't need the little faithful users (have been using Vue for 7 years now). I'm really frustrated. I really apprecheate NewTek's philosophy of upgrading from ANY Lightwave-version for THE HALF PRICE! This is really user-friendly. :thumbsup:
Don't forget: Faithful users are the backbone of a software-company!
So I will leave e-on and Vue and look for other software.
The xStream version is not really worth the price! It is buggy and doesn't support some of LW's plugins. E.g. It's not possible to save a motion (e.g. MDD or calculted dynamics) - the next time you open a file it crashes - still with 10.5 (Learning edition). Fibres are not supported - they are just not rendered (see above post) or you get a crash with saved fibre-parameters. The lighting is always a problem - what light (LW or Vue) is responsible for what objects? VPR is not usable.
Okay - the algorithms for light and clouds etc. are really good and they have some nice textures for landscapes and rocks out of the box. But I never got the result I wanted. Vue has it's own will. And it's completely overrated.
Sorry for sounding negative. But these are my experiences. Maybe it's good that I missed the update :)
There's plenty good software outside and much cheaper. And with LW's instance-feature - why should I use Vue?

Phil
11-08-2012, 01:32 PM
I have to agree with Phil: e-on doesn't leave the best of impression. I just wanted to upgrade from version 8 (upgraded in 2010 from version7) but it isn't possible anymore. :devil: It seems that I just missed the upgrade-possibility by one day! I sent them an e-mail and asked if this would be possible but got the negative response "This is just not possible".

To be fair, they did note that this would happen in e-mails prior to the version 11 release. Some time ago I jumped from Vue 6 Infinite to xStream just before the shutter came down for that reason. The saving off the full price was minimal (200-300 USD, I guess), but it wasn't to be dismissed out-of-hand.

One thing I will credit e-on with is that their pricing scheme, on subscription, is very decent. Less than 1 USD per day to keep everything updated - all render nodes, the main package, etc. It's the on-boarding costs where they sting you. Mind you, I recently discovered Thinkbox whack you with a 100 USD fee if you're off maintenance just for moving their license server to another machine. I could move my xStream license server to another machine with no issues at all. My chief complaint was the way that they phrased their license server upgrade mail. It could have been re-structured to avoid giving the impression that maintenance customers would have to fork up another 200 USD to keep everything in-step.


Maybe they are to much in the Hollywood-business and don't need the little faithful users (have been using Vue for 7 years now). I'm really frustrated. I really apprecheate NewTek's philosophy of upgrading from ANY Lightwave-version for THE HALF PRICE! This is really user-friendly. :thumbsup:
Don't forget: Faithful users are the backbone of a software-company!
So I will leave e-on and Vue and look for other software.

Your only other option would appear to be Terragen. I've only played with the demo, but I wasn't sold on it because I really wanted the integrated aspects of xStream. For skydomes and backplates, as well as native Terragen work, though, it would probably be ideal.


The xStream version is not really worth the price! It is buggy and doesn't support some of LW's plugins. E.g. It's not possible to save a motion (e.g. MDD or calculted dynamics) - the next time you open a file it crashes - still with 10.5 (Learning edition). Fibres are not supported - they are just not rendered (see above post) or you get a crash with saved fibre-parameters. The lighting is always a problem - what light (LW or Vue) is responsible for what objects? VPR is not usable.

Bear in mind that the Learning Edition is not updated after the initial release. I've no idea why, and I've pointed this out several times. My experience with 10.5 xStream has been, for the most part, fantastic. There were some minor frustrations and there are occasionally some nasty surprises (some surfaces appear to have cycling enabled, so the texture crawls when you move the camera around). Regarding lighting, I've only opted to use the native application lights - I switch off the Vue light influence and I also only use the native camera (not the one added by Vue). So far, that seems to work well enough. There are workflow gotchas in that Vue tries to force you to use the camera it added to the scene, but it's not a great problem.

VPR is a different matter, and I think the inability to use it whilst editing the settings comes largely from the way that Vue operates - the plugin is more like a bridge to the Vue application. As such, it's problematic to keep the dataset consistent if VPR is trying to retrieve data from Vue to display it. When you consider this, it's not surprising that there are limitations. However, if you're not editing the dataset, VPR works just fine with Vue content in the scene.


Okay - the algorithms for light and clouds etc. are really good and they have some nice textures for landscapes and rocks out of the box. But I never got the result I wanted. Vue has it's own will. And it's completely overrated.
Sorry for sounding negative. But these are my experiences. Maybe it's good that I missed the update :)
There's plenty good software outside and much cheaper. And with LW's instance-feature - why should I use Vue?

Because Vue's instance handling is much more efficient? It's impossible to use LW's instancing system to populate elements to the same extent as Vue's ecosystem can do. I will admit that I wish there was a superior preview of the cloud/atmosphere within the xStream dialogs - the tiny previews are pretty worthless. However, I don't regret keeping Vue on maintenance. I can see the other side of the argument, though :)

wolfiboy
11-08-2012, 03:38 PM
Thank you Phil for that reply.
I must admit that I just was angry about e-on and their update-policy. But I got an email today that I will get the chance to update! But I must say this only happens because I first contacted the sales-representative, got a refusal, posted that in the forum, another e-on-technician replied to that, got another reply from the (SAME!) sales-rep again - and it seams to be possible to upgrade! If some e-on-representatives are reading this post: Thank you very much! There is still mercy in this world :-)
I'm happy now and the world is bright and shiny again! :-)
But you are right. It would have been a hard way for me to find any other software that could do the work Vue does in such a convenient way. Of course it's possible to build mountains in LW or Terragen, clouds out of HyperVoxels, etc., but it needs more time or is not so brilliant. I just bought the book of Dax Pandhi 'Realism in Vue' this summer and he says that Vue has specifical algorithms to simulate light on clouds and water and material as it is in real. And there are some differences between Terragen an Vue, absolutely.
The instance handling is more convenient in Vue, absolutely right. You can paint it, if you want or just draw some sliders and Vue calculates them.
I just don't have the money to pay for this convenience as a private person or a small studio if I don't need it so often. Especially if I would have to buy the whole version again. And I must say that I not really understand why the new, whole Vue version has almost the same price as LW but less features. I mean - yes - I can build nice and realistic landscapes. But modelling? A really operable graph-editor for animations? Just a simple 'save increment'? A better renderer? Soft shadows? I mean - Between LW 10 and LW 11 was a huge leap. All the boolean dynamics, instancing, swarm and some more. I don't have the impression that there are comparable leaps between Vue-versions anymore. Eco-paint and spectral light was a huge leap. And now particles? Well...I don't know. Maybe these two packages are not comparable, but that's what I meant with 'overrated'. But yes - the software is successful and the price can be demanded (such with this other 3D-package beginning with the latter M). That's what I meant with 'Hollywood-business'.
If it will happen (and I didn't get the link yet) to upgrade to version 11 I will do some testing and post the results here. I also will take the lighting hint into consideration you mentioned, thank you very much!

wolfiboy
11-12-2012, 09:09 AM
I just installed Vue xStream 11 and made some testing: FiberFX is not working. The fibres are rendered but only on the shiloette of the object (see attached images on my former posts on this thread). If FiberFX is activated for an object and the file is saved (with a Vue-scene) - the next time you load it LW crashes. This is the same error as with Vue xStream 8 and LW 9.6 .
MDDs can be saved - no crash.
With the lights I'm not really sure. I got different results. The biggest problem is that I get two shadows, even when I disable the shadow on the LW-light in the properties and put the intensity of the light to 0%. But sometimes I only get 1 shadow. I need to do more testing.
The only thing I found out (and already knew): You can't control the Vue's sun-light in LW. If you do then the LW-objects are dark but the Vue-scene is still bright (no changes). The sun-light must be controled by Vue (e.g. in the atmosphere-editor).

@Phil: One question: When you say you switch off the Vue-light's influence - don't you loose all the special Vue-light-effects? Just like the specular-atmosphere or the anisotropy-effects? Or do you mean, you swith off the LW-light effects?

wolfiboy
11-27-2012, 04:51 AM
Now it's official: FiberFx does not work with Vue 11. I started a support-request for this issue (within my 30-day maintenance plan) and got following response:

Hi Wolfgang,

Unfortunately, this is a known issue in Vue xStream.

Given the complexity to correct this issue, we will be unable to solve this through an update, but will try to fix in a future version.

Best regards.
Shawn Remo