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jimiclaybrooks
05-02-2012, 06:58 PM
Just wondering, is it possible to get a really dark cloudy sky like this in LWave? And if so, how would yu pull it off? At this point I'd just like to get close to this, without waiting 2 days for one frame. I've tried skytracer and I've tried sprites, but so far, I haven't made any real progress. I'd use ozone if I could afford it, but that ain't gonna happen. :help: Oh yeah, what I'm trying to do is transition from a sunny day with cumulus clouds to a dark foreboding sky with turbulent clouds.

erikals
05-02-2012, 10:37 PM
$30 Ogo Taiki...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asiypf9eIp4

where to buy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW0ImR2zZ9M

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~pq1a-ogs/srr001.jpg

jimiclaybrooks
05-02-2012, 11:36 PM
Funny yu should mention OGO. I bought it along time ago, but I never used it because render times were so very slow. Mind you, I'm in 9.6, so I don't have VPR yet, but thanks for the ref. It may be that I can use it this time around. I also know that there were'n't any docs for it then. Has that changed?

erikals
05-03-2012, 12:11 AM
no, it's tricky to set up, what you need to do is to tweak the scenes he has stored on his site. quite many of them, they should do the job, and save you time.

i highly recommend VPR for this though...

 

SplineGod
05-03-2012, 01:40 AM
Used to use stacked polys in the old days when you needed clouds but would render fast.
If you created a flattended dome 5 or so layers deep, each with its own surface.
Give each layer a turbulance procedural in the Transparency channel. The top most layer should be white with each layer under it being progressively daYou can rker grey. Playing with the contrast settings of each surface layer etc can get some decent looking results.
You can also try using a similar stacked texture approach in the textured environment plugin which you can see in realtime using Viper.

jimiclaybrooks
05-03-2012, 05:32 AM
Thanks, both of you. :thumbsup: I won't be doing the vpr thing anytime soon, so Larry's technique sounds like a plan that might get me where I need to be. Much appreciated.

prometheus
05-04-2012, 04:50 AM
You could also use cloud grid planes, that is setting up a grid plane with some divisions, make it subpatched, and control level of density with subpatch levels settings in layout, you can then apply sprites on to the grid, using world coordinate and you set the density channel to zero, but apply the texture there in the texture channel, tweaking with luminosity color and texture displacements it might look nice.

Might post a sample later tonight or tommorrow, the tricky part would be to animate it properly and realistic.

hereīs a thread discussing volumetric cloud techniques..
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=126567

Ivé tried OgoTaiki,ozone,hypervoxels volume, hypervoxels sprites, skytracer,skygen, TurbulenceFD all has it pros and cons.

Since the commercial plugins are out of your reach, I think you will get difficulties to get it look real good thou.

You might be able to get skytracer working, but Im not fond of it generally, I recall I did a pretty good dark cloud time lapse once, but I do not now where it is now.

I havenīt tested Larrys suggestions, or the technique where you create several poly planes and add weight map to them and then assign procedurals, that one looked very promising.

Michael

prometheus
05-04-2012, 08:54 AM
I donīt think this would really fit for you as a solution..but might be of interest anyway, cloud techniques where weight maps are used on a multiplane setup and some node surfacing,the tutorial can be found here..
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/content.php?154-3D-Volumetric-Planetart-Clouds

http://www.scifi-meshes.com/articles/images/clouds/earth.jpg

http://www.scifi-meshes.com/articles/images/clouds/14.jpg

Theres a content folder with the scene setup to download too.

I tried to follow the tute first but no big success, and I was trying procedurals too, but not the same results as the content.
Besides the content Renders completly different with vpr and final render so it isnīt tweaking friendly, took something around over 1 minute to render.

Michael

avkills
05-04-2012, 11:29 AM
Wow. Cool; I am going to have to give this a go in a few days.

avkills
05-04-2012, 11:30 AM
Used to use stacked polys in the old days when you needed clouds but would render fast.
If you created a flattended dome 5 or so layers deep, each with its own surface.
Give each layer a turbulance procedural in the Transparency channel. The top most layer should be white with each layer under it being progressively daYou can rker grey. Playing with the contrast settings of each surface layer etc can get some decent looking results.
You can also try using a similar stacked texture approach in the textured environment plugin which you can see in realtime using Viper.

BTW I have used this method before and it works quite well. Even if you animate it towards the camera.

jimiclaybrooks
05-04-2012, 02:02 PM
Could I just say thank you to every one thats has posted here so far. This is such a wealth of info, I'll be studying this subject for quite a while. I see that I have a lot to learn. Its a humbling thing, but its awesome:) Thank you so much.

UnCommonGrafx
05-04-2012, 03:10 PM
Hijack:
Why doesn't this work with viper?
Nice setup.
Worthy.

jimiclaybrooks
05-04-2012, 05:32 PM
Here's a question. In the tutorial on the left, there's a box step node that says "in" and "end". My box step node doesn't have that feature. Whats the diff, and which input parameter should I use here? thanks

erikals
05-04-2012, 06:03 PM
good question indeed,...

found it: > "boxstep" is under "functions" category in LW 10.1

(not > Math/Scalar/Boxstep) ;]

 

jimiclaybrooks
05-05-2012, 07:55 AM
Thanks officer!!
Found it, now all I have to do is make it work. :bowdown:

jimiclaybrooks
05-05-2012, 08:17 AM
Well sports fans,
here we are with the correct node, (I think), and its set to zero like it should be, but as you can see, there's nothing going on with the cloud. I'm gonna try again from scratch with the correct node to see if it works. I'll post later to show the results.

erikals
05-05-2012, 08:30 AM
no, wrong node :]
that's the other one... :]

zapper1998
05-05-2012, 11:01 AM
nice tut
thanks
awesome

jimiclaybrooks
05-05-2012, 11:33 AM
Well I'm reeeeeaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllyyy confused, because this is the node that is shown in the tut. Also, I tried that other node, and as I showed earlier, it didn't work either. So now I've gone from slightly confused to totally wasted! :help:

erikals
05-05-2012, 04:43 PM
shoot, ignore me, you used the right one.... LOL... agh... !

i'm very sorry, LoL, oh well.... http://erikalstad.com/backup/anims.php_files/redface.gif
ignore post #17 http://erikalstad.com/backup/anims.php_files/aiwebs_001.gif

 

jimiclaybrooks
05-05-2012, 05:44 PM
I know this is alot to ask, but could someone post a sample scene with the clouds setup so that this stack thing works? I'm offering my scene here if that will get the ball rolling. thanks BTW, I just wanna be sure to mention again, I'm in LWave 9.6.

erikals
05-05-2012, 05:52 PM
part of the problem is that you have a connector set to translucency instead of transparency...

erikals
05-05-2012, 06:04 PM
not sure about problem 2,

renders fine in VPR, but not in F9... hmm....

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104101&stc=1&d=1336262628

erikals
05-05-2012, 06:27 PM
fixed,

i remember now, you have to pump up the Ray recursion limit.
set it to about 25 or so, it'll remove the artifacts... :]

 

erikals
05-05-2012, 06:43 PM
 
by using photoreal motion blur (200, 2 passes) and use a small Oscillator offset in the Y channel it is possible to blur out and remove artifacts for close-ups.

it's tricky to make it 100%, but helps alot...
MB rendertime > 3m30sec
no MB rendertime > 1m30sec (don't mind the bad contrast/lighting, my fault)

(i notice it renders quite different in sRGB color space though..)

(hope it's ok to share the file he made here...) \:°

 

Rove
05-05-2012, 06:55 PM
... You can also try using a similar stacked texture approach in the textured environment plugin which you can see in realtime using Viper.

I used the technique which Larry described once to depict stormy skies on the planet of Hoth (Star Wars). I dug up the scene file and made a quick render to show you how that sky looked like. The clouds are animated.

The AT-AT Walker model has been downloaded from scifi3d.com and the credits for the model and it's textures go to Bertrand Dejardin who did a splendid job I must add! The model has been converted to LWO format by Philippe Choy.

jimiclaybrooks
05-06-2012, 01:03 AM
Thanks guys,
I'll be looking at this first thing tomorrow. Its really late, so I'm gonna call it quits for now. I do appreciate the help.

prometheus
05-06-2012, 11:05 AM
Hereīs a scene setup I made for you guys using hypervoxels sprites and a cloud grid object, check the zip file attachment for the scenefile, Lightwave 11 scene thou..so I do not think I can convert to 9.6.

the clouds are procedurals in this setup so you could animate.

The difficulties with this is to get good illumination since we do not have any good gradients to fake the volume look, it might work to bake illumination on to a vertex map or something and apply to sprites, but I havenīt researched that.

Ivé been using this for Hv volume mode too, but this renders much faster and gives a softer look.
This isnīt exactly the solution the thread starter wants, but you could tweak dissolve and density setting in the grid object and add extra point lights with fallof to give cool illumination behind or in the clouds.

the depth color shadows in the clouds are just the same procedural wich drives density and dissolve, thereīs room for more tweaks.

Ps..yeah I know the cloud layer cuts off a little, should have made it bigger.
This technique is quite fast to tweak with VRP , only one second to 3 seconds for instant view and refinement in viewport, under half a minute to render with lowest AA.
You can of course use viper too.

One of the trick to get it look decent is to use right particle size and also set a y stretching, but it really kicks in when you use a procedural on the stretching channel.


cheers.
Michael



http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104127&stc=1&d=1336323742

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104128&stc=1&d=1336323750

prometheus
05-06-2012, 11:07 AM
o yeah..I missed the preview of open gl..

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104129&stc=1&d=1336324023

erikals
05-06-2012, 12:28 PM
Cool render, interesting :]

prometheus
05-06-2012, 12:38 PM
I wish there was a node setup that could apply lighting in a good way to this, in the scenefile posted, thereīs no gradient on the luminosity channel, but I tested that later and it looks quite good with a y-distance to particle gradient, but here is where we would need a light angle gradient or something.

Been testing skylight too but thatīs on the textured environment and that can color the sprites a little to match overall skylight, but you would have to plug the skylight in to luminosity channel somehow to get the same light angle as when you rotate your light, and that doesnīt seem to work on sprites.

For sprites you would need to turn off objects casting shadow, because that would generate some uggly shadow artifacts on the clouds when using sprites, if you have something flying in there.


http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104131&stc=1&d=1336329495
Michael

jimiclaybrooks
05-09-2012, 01:37 PM
Finally,
Had to wait a while, but I got the license code from [email protected] I went to the vid on youtube and followed your lead, but I'm still having problems with the install. This is what I did, but it just isn't getting me there. Could you help me with this pleeeez? thanks

OK, I did'nt put the dongle ID number in the right window, duh!!! But it's all good now. thanks

erikals
05-09-2012, 09:40 PM
\:]

jimiclaybrooks
05-09-2012, 10:11 PM
Erikals,
forgive me for asking the really dumb question, but is there anything that I can get ahold of that will help me with this plugin as far as those cloud scenes are concerned. Most of what I've seen so far are samples for the shader, Hikari. I've downloaded alot of stuff, but there's no docs for the plugin that I know of, and I don't understand how I can get to do the clouds that I need without some help getting started. Any ideas?

erikals
05-09-2012, 10:51 PM
 
well, like i said earlier, skies is a bit tricky to set up, what you do is tweak the scenes he has stored on his site. these work as a preset, then you can adjust them to your taste. it's quite many of them, so adjust the one you find to be the closest match.


the presets are located here >
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~pq1a-ogs/OGO_Taiki125B_beta.zip

 

jimiclaybrooks
05-10-2012, 05:31 AM
Thanks dude, this is a big help

UnCommonGrafx
05-13-2012, 11:41 AM
hehe,
Looking at Taiki today.
It is a programmatic stacking solution, it would seem. Interesting that that IS THE implementation. Quite cool.

Ogo is king of environment and clouds in lw. Surviving even into 11.

prometheus
05-13-2012, 11:48 AM
OgoTaiki needs to rival end renders of ozone, and get a UI improvement.

As it is today, you are likely to get confused by the interface since you are working on different layers for a lot of tools such as air and cloud properties, that wonīt do, and the same goes with quality settings, thereīs to much of them floating around.

Then it needs that air setup model such as spectral model in vue in order to be more accurate to real sky settings.

the plus sides are that it seems to work with vpr while tweaking, and the option to use particles or point clusters for the volumetric shader.

Apart from that..we donīt know how OgoTaiki will survive and improve, or just laying around..yet working.

Anyone who has been able to contact the developer and find out whats going to happen?

Michael

erikals
05-13-2012, 12:51 PM
we donīt know how OgoTaiki will survive and improve, or just laying around..yet working...

it has survived for 10+ years, so i wouldn't worry.
is he going to upgrade it? no, i don't see that happening.
 

prometheus
05-13-2012, 12:58 PM
it has survived for 10+ years, so i wouldn't worry.
is he going to upgrade it? no, i don't see that happening.
 

well..Im just saying that OgoTaiki as it is today isnīt sufficient, at least not for how I would like to work with it.

But the same goes for ozone too, but that one is still developed, just need to have it interactive with VPR as ogo can, and it needs missing density functions and cloud detail tab and appliance of cloud layers or shader on particles or objects,point clusters..then you might be able to kiss ogotaiki goodby.

Michael

erikals
05-13-2012, 01:15 PM
 
yes, it has it's limits http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif
still waiting for that kick-a** plugin, but for now it's alright.

glad to see Turbulence though, we needed that.