PDA

View Full Version : Blur data without rendering?



jeric_synergy
04-27-2012, 10:00 AM
Is it possible to generate motion blur data without the lights being on?

:stumped:

Lightwolf
04-27-2012, 10:26 AM
You mean the motion vectors for motion blur in post?
Sure...

Cheers,
Mike

jeric_synergy
04-27-2012, 12:38 PM
Exactly.

Looking at something that's got 21 hours left to render, and thinking, "glad I didn't turn on motion blur". But, what if I wanted those vectors. It should render fast w/o the lights on, right?

Greenlaw
04-27-2012, 02:35 PM
Yes. In fact that's what I did the other day for my 'long hair' FFX motion vector pass as discussed in this thread:

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=127311&page=4&highlight=ffx

Disabling lighting and AA reduced the render time for a 'motion vector data only' pass to under a minute per frame. As you can see in the example, the result works fine.

At work, we sometimes do this for special Vue xStream buffers (like Coverage, Mat/Obj ID, etc.) after we've rendered our beauty pass from Lightwave.

G.

Celshader
04-27-2012, 05:53 PM
Exactly.

Looking at something that's got 21 hours left to render, and thinking, "glad I didn't turn on motion blur". But, what if I wanted those vectors. It should render fast w/o the lights on, right?

Yup. At work our custom render pass software offers a "MotionVectors"-type pass for folks who occasionally need to just render motion vectors. It submits a copy of the scene to the render farm that has all lights and radiosity disabled and with exrTrader set to export only "Motion."

As the folks above mentioned, this works fine even without the lights. The geometry would also still show up in the Alpha, if we were exporting the just the Alpha. It only appears black in the RGB because nothing's lighting it up.

Jen

jeric_synergy
04-27-2012, 06:56 PM
Exxxxxxxcellent. Except, I'll be using LW11's new Compositing Buffer Export, to EXR.

THEN I get to learn how to put it all together in AE7. Oh, joy.

8^|

Celshader
04-27-2012, 07:50 PM
Exxxxxxxcellent. Except, I'll be using LW11's new Compositing Buffer Export, to EXR.

THEN I get to learn how to put it all together in AE7. Oh, joy.

8^|

At work we're using Reel Smart Motion Blur for vector-based motion vector blur in After Effects. I'm not sure if any other motion vector solution exists for After Effects.

RSMB requires a specific formatting of motion vector data. There's a plug-in for this:
http://www.richardnichols.net/rsmbexport/

Then set the "Displacement" value in RSMB Pro Vectors in After Effects to whatever value you used for Max Pixel Value in RSMB Export.

You can also use the processing tab in exrTrader to format the raw motion vector information to RSMB specifications.

jeric_synergy
04-27-2012, 11:57 PM
At work we're using Reel Smart Motion Blur for vector-based motion vector blur in After Effects. I'm not sure if any other motion vector solution exists for After Effects.
Commercial, right? If it didn't come in the box, or isn't free, I can't afford it. :( :( :(

That link isn't very encouraging. >;^)

I'm sure you know better than I, but there is something called "CC_Vector Blur" that comes w/AE. It does have a map setting (I can see it), but that's all I know about it tonight.

dee
04-28-2012, 04:37 AM
I'm sure you know better than I, but there is something called "CC_Vector Blur" that comes w/AE. It does have a map setting (I can see it), but that's all I know about it tonight.

Better try CC Force Motion Blur. But be prepared, it's quite slow.

jeric_synergy
04-28-2012, 10:14 AM
Better try CC Force Motion Blur. But be prepared, it's quite slow.
Without dox it's difficult to know but:


1a) where ARE the dox for all the CC plugins?
1b) CC Force Motion Blur seems to be some sort of simulation of blur, in that it doesn't take a map input. CC Vector Blur at least has an input for a 'Vector Map'. What is the difference?

Thanks! :thumbsup:

Celshader
04-28-2012, 10:18 AM
Without dox it's difficult to know but:


1a) where ARE the dox for all the CC plugins?
1b) CC Force Motion Blur seems to be some sort of simulation of blur, in that it doesn't take a map input. CC Vector Blur at least has an input for a 'Vector Map'. What is the difference?

Thanks! :thumbsup:

I have never heard of CC Vector Blur until this thread.

Try searching for "CC Vector Blur" on Google and YouTube. It looks like folks have tutorials, docs and video tutorials online explaining how to use the plug-in.

jeric_synergy
04-28-2012, 12:13 PM
Try searching for "CC Vector Blur" on .....
I'm doing that right now, but I always prefer to get the official dox.
+++
And here they are: http://cycorefx.com/dloads_ccfx.php

+++
So, here's what the dox say about "CC Vector Blur" -- I'll probably need a translator for some of this stuff...

CC VECTOR BLUR
Vector blur uses maps to define a vector field along which the blur will take place.
There are various ways to define the vector field. Vector Blur can blur in multiple directions, based on the values of another layer.

Controls
Type
Use this control to select how the vector field will be defined from the values in the chosen Vector Map. Choose one of the following options from the pop-up menu.

Natural
Vector field is formed from slopes in the Vector Map from which values define height. Ridge Smoothness and steepness in the Vector Map affect vector length and thereby also blur length.
Constant Length
Same as Natural, but with straight blur strength, i.e. not fading.
Perpendicular
Same as Natural, but with perpendicular vectors. Vectors don't point up and down the slopes, instead they point along the slopes, around hills.
Direction Center
Vector field assumes directions from the values of the Vector Map. High and low values point in different directions. Vector lengths do not vary. Blurs in both directions from the center of the vectors.
Direction Fading
Same as Direction Center except this only blurs in the (one) direction of the vectors.

Amount
Use this control to determine how far along the vector field blur is applied. In some Types, the vectors have individual length. This affects the actual blur length.
Angle Offset
Use this control to offset (rotate) the angle of the vector field.


Ridge Smoothness/Revolutions (Supervised)
For non-directional blur types, use this control to adjust the smoothness of the ridges, or how steep the slopes appear, in the vector field. For directional blur types, use this control to determine how many revolutions the vector field will twist.
Vector Map
Use this pop-up to define a Vector Map from which the vector field will be defined.
For example, selecting a layer containing animated Fractal Noise can
produce very interesting effects.
Property
Use this pop-up menu to select the channel information on which to base the vector field on. Choose one of the following options: Red, Green, Blue, Alpha,
Luminance, Lightness, Hue or Saturation.
Map Softness
Use this control to determine the softness (or blurring) of the vector field. Higher Map Softness values will remove small details and make the blur appear smoother.

jeric_synergy
04-28-2012, 01:03 PM
In particular, I'm sure I'll need to find out what TYPE of vector blur map LightWave generates.

Greenlaw
04-28-2012, 03:01 PM
Lightwave normally outputs X and Y motion vectors as two separate channels. Many compositing programs (like Fusion for example) read this automatically if they are embedded as a channel in the .exr file. (In Fusion, the channels needs to be named a certain way or you will need to enable it manually in the Loader node.)

If you use RSMB, the data needs to be merged and normalized, and I think the color depth needs to be reduced to 16-bit. I think this is what the Richard Nichols plug-in does.

I normally use Fusion's native Vector Blur tools (and at work we have a suite of custom tools for this,) but in some situations I will fall back on RSMB (the AE version runs in Fusion x32) because it can do pixel tracking to simulate motion blur even if vector data does not exist. This is useful for 'cheating' motion blur--for example, if you render a Groboto object sequence in Lightwave. (Normally, object sequences do not produce motion blur data in Lightwave.) Another example is the original long hair FiberFX animation (http://bit.ly/I3av8T) from the above thread. The original animation was rendered before I figured out how to use Polygonize to get the vector data from the fiber shapes, so I totally cheated the motion blur effect using RSMB. The fake MB result actually looks pretty good in that video; in fact, it almost looks as accurate as the Vector Blur with vector data. Using RSMB's 'pixel tracking only' mode is a last resort trick though, because without vectors, the plug-in can sometimes produce some weird (but interesting) artifacts.

I'm only mentioning this so you know that if you do purchase RSMB, you're getting more than just a vector blur tool.

I have no experience with CC Vector Blur but it sounds like it may have the vector blurring part without the pixel tracking, so it may do what you want. If it's an AE plug-in, it probably needs the same conversion as RSMB does. Hopefully somebody with experience will add more information.

Hope this helps.

G.

Greenlaw
04-28-2012, 03:08 PM
One more thing to be aware of: with some programs you may be required to invert vector data in your compositing program. For example, when I use motion vector data from Vue, I need to invert the Y data for the vector blur to go in the correct direction. This may not affect you if you're only using Lightwave and AE.

G.

jeric_synergy
04-28-2012, 04:08 PM
Greenlaw, thanks for your assistance here. --I figured I'd be consulting you soon enough. :)

I'm only mentioning this so you know that if you do purchase RSMB, you're getting more than just a vector blur tool.

That ain't gonna happen until I get some clients that will pay for it.

jeric_synergy
04-28-2012, 05:03 PM
RSMB requires a specific formatting of motion vector data. There's a plug-in for this:
http://www.richardnichols.net/rsmbexport/
After MUCH mouse-clicking, I'm reasonably sure NO compositing program just accepts Lightwave X Motion and Y Motion buffers to do post blur, unless they're embedded in an OpenEXR file.

::sigh:: muh bwain hurtz ....

Lightwolf
04-28-2012, 05:10 PM
After MUCH mouse-clicking, I'm reasonably sure NO compositing program just accepts Lightwave X Motion and Y Motion buffers to do post blur, unless they're embedded in an OpenEXR file.

Fusion does... regardless of how they're saved - as long as it's a float file format.

Cheers,
Mike

jeric_synergy
04-28-2012, 06:53 PM
So, if you use the LW11 Composite Buffer Export, and load in the separately saved X and Y motion buffer images/files, you can tell Fusion to utilize those two files as the motion blur components?

It's all academic to me: I don't have Fusion. But I figure the more info I have the better. For instance, the LW plugin Celshader pointed out processes the 2 lw buffers into one file, for use with the compositing plugin (?) RSMB. I don't have that either, but it's reasonably possible that the resulting file will work with CC Vector Blur, which is bundled with AE.

jwiede
04-29-2012, 11:39 AM
Is anyone aware of a Mac-compatible plugin for converting LW motion buffers into RSMB-compatible data? Richard Nichols' isn't supported anymore, so asking there seems pointless.

jeric_synergy
04-29-2012, 02:17 PM
So, that's TWO applications that don't use the X and Y motion files LW seems to like (RSMB and CC Vector Blur). I'd think NewTek would want to keep AE convenient to LW users, --what's the odds on NewTek making a Nichols-like utility?

Celshader
04-29-2012, 04:24 PM
Is anyone aware of a Mac-compatible plugin for converting LW motion buffers into RSMB-compatible data? Richard Nichols' isn't supported anymore, so asking there seems pointless.

Yes. exrTrader can export RSMB-compatible data if you use the Processing and Channels tabs to convert the raw motion vector data of the Motion buffer into RSMB-normalized data. You can then tell exrTrader to export this data to an Image sequence in a sub-folder of the main render.

So, for the Motion buffer settings in exrTrader...


Flip the X channel in the Channels tab. If you choose not to do this, you will have to flip the X-blur in the RMSB settings in the compositing package.
In the Processing tab, add the Offset that represents the Max Displacement value you will be using (ex: 200 for 200px Max Displacement). This will push ALL of the negative values of the motion vector buffer into the 0-and-up positive range.
In the Processing tab, set the scale to 1/2*<maxDisp>, where <maxDisp> represents the Max Displacement you will be using in RSMB. You can also consider the formula to be 1/2*Offset, where Offset represents the value used for the Offset above the Scale.

For example, a setup that uses 200 for the Offset should use 1/2*200 for its Scale.

1/2*200 ==> 1/400 ==> 0.0025 for the Scale.

You have to do this because RSMB demands values between 0 and 1, where 0.5 represents "no movement". The Offset pushes everything into the positive range, and the Scale reduces the data so that everything fits under a value of 1.
In the Saving tab, set "Save As" to Image+Alpha. Set the File Format to LW_OpenEXR_RGBAFP and the OpenEXR Pixel Type to 32bit Float.

If you choose not to embed the alpha within the motion vector data, you will have to make a precomp of the Motion buffer with the alpha of the render in After Effects and feed the precomp to RSMB. Embedding the alpha will skip this step.

If you choose to save out 16bit Floating data, you may not have the data depth you need for a good clean blur. Whether you're using the RSMB Export plug-in or exrTrader to export the RSMB-formatted vector data, you will be taking your best guess per shot when setting up the Max Displacement value for the RSMB Export plug-in or exrTrader Processing tab. If you have a sloooooooow shot, you'll want to use a Max Displacement of 1 or 5 pixels. Setting it to 200 pixels could reduce the RSMB data to a teeny-tiny blip in the histogram of the data. You'll have a better chance of still getting a good result out of that teeny-tiny blip with 32bits instead of 16bits of depth.


At work we wrote a post-Job Deadline script to analyze the raw motion vectors of an entire sequence of EXRs after it finishes rendering. The script then generates an RSMB-formatted version normalized to the hottest pixel within that sequence.

Greenlaw
04-29-2012, 06:02 PM
Shouldn't you be able to do this with nodes in Lightwave? Sorry, I'm not the guy to ask how to do this, but I imagine with nodes you could merge the X and Y motion vector buffer data, normalize them and output the result as 16-bit for RSMB compatibility straight out of Lightwave. At work, for example, we use Lightwave nodes for more complicated output like World Pos data for pinning elements to pixels in 3D space (i.e., instant tracking) and special post-render lighting effects. I would think using nodes to get Lightwave to output an 'RSMB friendly' version of the motion vector data should be trivial.

Well, okay, 'trivial' if you know what you're doing of course, which I don't. I haven't a clue what operations are involved for RSMB compatibility but maybe a kind nodes expert in these forums could help out?

Just thinking out loud. Hope you guys get something that works for you soon.

G.

jeric_synergy
04-29-2012, 11:48 PM
Greenlaw, at one point do you get the data into a file or embedded portion of a file?

That is: which Node Editor would you use to do this? What's the Destination Node??

Greenlaw
04-30-2012, 12:46 AM
Greenlaw, at one point do you get the data into a file or embedded portion of a file?

That is: which Node Editor would you use to do this? What's the Destination Node??
Seriously, this is way beyond my area of expertise. But I believe it's done through Image Filter Node Editor, which is one of Denis Pontonnier's many incredibly essential Lightwave plug-ins (http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/main_en.htm). This one is part of his DP Filter suite. If you use any of his tools, be sure to send a donation--I just sent my second donation because of his recent LW 11 compatibility updates.

Sorry I'm not going to be much help on details though. At work, all I do is use the Import Nodes command to load what's already been prepared by our programmer so we can output what we need for Fusion. We don't have any node setups to merge the motion vector data though since this is unnecessary for Fusion. But if a user can figure out what Richard Nichols' plug-in is doing for RSMB compatibility, I imagine he can also recreate the same operations in the Nodes editor.

Just a thought but have you tried the Extended RPF Exporter that comes with Lightwave? I don't know if AE reads this file format but one of the options in the panel is a single Velocity buffer and I think the result is 16 bit. (I'm not at all certain about that though.) But then again, this tool also lists a Coverage option and I know that option doesn't actually do anything, so I'm not sure what you'll get with the Velocity buffer option. Might be worth a shot though.

G.

Greenlaw
04-30-2012, 12:56 AM
Oh, wait, I see what you mean. Destination node...um...I don't know. At home I use EXRTrader and at work we use a proprietary .exr saver and the extra data is just fed into an available channel, or as a file. I don't have any idea how to save a result to a separate image file without these tools. Sorry, somebody more knowledgeable than I am will have to explain if this is even possible.

IMO, at $71, EXRTrader is a worthwhile purchase. For me, it definitely makes compositing Lightwave at home a whole lot easier. In your situation, it sounds like this tool will solve the RSMB issue too.

G.

jeric_synergy
04-30-2012, 01:25 AM
Just to keep things straight, I don't have an RSMB issue because I don't have RSMB. What I'm trying to do is use an apparently appropriate AE-bundled plugin, CC Vector Blur, which accepts 5 different types of vector field maps, none of which are output directly by Lightwave.

It does appear that exrTrader will help in that regard (although too tired to sort it out now) -- but I'll run it by Lightwolf to make sure that all my suppositions are correct.

Money is such that even the extremely reasonable price of exrTrader is a bit difficult to come by. I have hopes that the Nichols plugin will do what I need to make CC Vector Blur work.

Meanwhile over at Creative Cow, they love to tell you how to fake motion blur, but aren't so keen on using actual motion blur data. Tossers.

Greenlaw
04-30-2012, 01:46 AM
That's right. Sorry...I totally lost track of the conversation. I really don't know anything about CC Vector Blur so I'm not sure my suggestions have any relevance. My assumption was that it works like RSMB but without the pixel tracking features, but I have no actual knowledge about this. Hopefully somebody who uses it will pop in soon with more solid info.

Lightwolf
04-30-2012, 02:00 AM
Shouldn't you be able to do this with nodes in Lightwave? Sorry, I'm not the guy to ask how to do this, but I imagine with nodes you could merge the X and Y motion vector buffer data, normalize them and output the result as 16-bit for RSMB compatibility straight out of Lightwave.
This is pretty much what Jen does in exrTrader (and you can save it as a preset). The trickiest part is finding out the max. distance in pixels that the vector data may represent, because you need to use that distance right with the first image you save. But it should be either the maximum for the whole sequence (which is only known after rendering the sequence) or a sufficiently high number.
Depending on the compositor it may also make sense to tweak the native format into something RSMB can handle within the compositor as opposed to while saving from LW.
The only reason why this is needed is because RSMB was designed before float compositing (and float image file formats).

Cheers,
Mike

Greenlaw
04-30-2012, 05:20 PM
Hi,

Right now I'm doing a test where I need to do the reverse, that is, take an RSMB compatible RGB vector image and turn it back into the separate X and Y motion channels like what Lightwave normally outputs. Does anybody know how to do this in Fusion? Thanks in advance for any assistance.

BTW, Rebel Hill referred me to this plug-in: http://www.houseofsecrets.nl/downloads/plugins.htm which might be useful to AE users in this thread. Basically, it renders RSMB compatible data to RGB. Maybe it works for CC Blur too? Hope this helps.

G.

Celshader
04-30-2012, 05:27 PM
Hi,

Right now I'm doing a test where I need to do the reverse, that is, take an RSMB compatible RGB vector image and turn it back into the separate X and Y motion channels like what Lightwave normally outputs.

R = X
G = Y
B = dump it!

Subtract 0.5 from each channel so that 50% (aka "no movement" in RSMB) becomes 0.0 (aka "no movement in Fusion). Then multiply each channel by the Max Displacement you were using in RSMB. You should now have the "regular" motion vector information. Treat the R channel as the X channel and the G channel as the Y channel.

Lightwolf
04-30-2012, 05:31 PM
Hi,

Right now I'm doing a test where I need to do the reverse, that is, take an RSMB compatible RGB vector image and turn it back into the separate X and Y motion channels like what Lightwave normally outputs. Does anybody know how to do this in Fusion? Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Have a look at this for the computation of LW style vectors into RSMB style vectors in Fusion: http://www.db-w.com/products/exrtrader/download/viewdownload/22-exrtrader/84-lwtoclampedmotionvectorzip

Essentially you need to reverse the maths. Subtract 0.5 from the RSMB data to shift the null position (i.e. no movement) to numerical 0.0, then multiply by the maximum value that was used to create the RSMB data (the default for RSMB is 2048 if I remember correctly).

new_value = (value - 0.5) * 2048

Cheers,
Mike

Greenlaw
04-30-2012, 05:34 PM
Thank you guys! That info is a huge help to a non-technical sort like me. :bowdown:

G.

jeric_synergy
04-30-2012, 08:56 PM
BTW, Rebel Hill referred me to this plug-in: http://www.houseofsecrets.nl/downloads/plugins.htm which might be useful to AE users in this thread. Basically, it renders RSMB compatible data to RGB. Maybe it works for CC Blur too? Hope this helps.
G.
Glad it's out there, and findable, but man that's a lot of hoops to jump thru to save the damn file at the end.

Add a saver Image Filter, TWICE? Intuitive! :devil:

+++
Checking out Richard Nichols' plugin right now: it has a file save dialog, but suffers from the content directory bug in that it defaulted to the last folder used, in this case the Plugin directory. --Sure wish NewTek would quash that one, it's just plain unprofessional. :devil:

Hoping that trying all 5 variations of CC Vector Blur input choice will reveal one that works w/the same inputs as RSMB.

Celshader
04-30-2012, 09:16 PM
Glad it's out there, and findable, but man that's a lot of hoops to jump thru to save the damn file at the end.

Add a saver Image Filter, TWICE? Intuitive! :devil:

+++
Checking out Richard Nichols' plugin right now: it has a file save dialog, but suffers from the content directory bug in that it defaulted to the last folder used, in this case the Plugin directory. --Sure wish NewTek would quash that one, it's just plain unprofessional. :devil:

If you're looking for top quality software for a compositing pipeline, please consider investing in db&w's exrTrader. It's so well-thought out.

jeric_synergy
04-30-2012, 11:02 PM
If you're looking for top quality software for a compositing pipeline, please consider investing in db&w's exrTrader. It's so well-thought out.
First I want to confirm that the RSMB format will do me any good, without RSMB. If I were using Fusion, it would be a slam dunk, but I'm using AE.

jeric_synergy
05-01-2012, 08:58 AM
See JPG. Scene package attached. --Using the Richard Nichols RSBM Export plugin, I output a motion vector file in EXR format, float.

Loading the resulting file into AE, I contrasted the RSBM file with what LW would have output had MB been turned on. (I left the RSBM file's alpha enabled to make it more clear what was going on.) Pictured is frame 150.

What confuses me is: shouldn't I be able to see some variance in the RSBM file? The hub of the 'fan' is relatively slow moving compared to the tips of the blades-- shouldn't the difference be visible? Both visually and spot checking w/the cursor reveals only tiny variance in the values at any given pixel in the RSBM file.

Could someone please post a representative sample of the Nichols plugin output so I can contrast my results here?

jeric_synergy
05-01-2012, 01:00 PM
FWIW....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_m9R7vcioQ&feature=youtu.be

Hieron
05-08-2012, 03:29 PM
So, for the Motion buffer settings in exrTrader...
.

Thanks for taking the time to write that down, very helpful.

However, it seems that instances do not get correct motion buffer atm? They are not cooperating at all here.. is that a known bug?

Thought to apply it to our arch viz scenes... (which is on big instancing scene)


edit: I see you confirmed the motion pass not working on instances here: http://forums.newtek.com/showpost.php?p=1241825&postcount=8

Celshader
05-08-2012, 03:48 PM
Thanks for taking the time to write that down, very helpful.

However, it seems that instances do not get correct motion buffer atm? They are not cooperating at all here.. is that a known bug?

Thought to apply it to our arch viz scenes... (which is on big instancing scene)

Native instancing does not report correct motion buffer data at this time. I reported the bug, and they're planning to fix it.

Luckily, native instancing does work with Photoreal blur.

lardbros
07-22-2012, 11:21 AM
So, let me get this right...

LightWave, out of the box, cannot use its motion vectors straight in RSMB?

Is there any other way aside from using EXR-Trader? I do have it at home, but not at work, and not sure I could persuade 'the people that be' to buy it for me.

??

Celshader
07-22-2012, 11:32 AM
So, let me get this right...

LightWave, out of the box, cannot use its motion vectors straight in RSMB?

Is there any other way aside from using EXR-Trader? I do have it at home, but not at work, and not sure I could persuade 'the people that be' to buy it for me.

??

LightWave 11 should be able to natively export motion vectors suitable for Nuke and Digital Fusion using Compositing Buffer Export. Nuke and Fusion can both use raw motion vector data. However, After Effects' only post-process blur option is the third-party RSMB plug-in, which requires special formatting for motion vector data.

Without exrTrader or Nuke/Fusion, you have three options:


Use LightWave's native Vector Blur Image Filter to bake post-process blur into your renders.
Use the free RSMB Export (http://www.richardnichols.net/rsmbexport/) plug-in to export RSMB-formatted motion vectors.
Export RSMB-formatted motion vectors with Denis Pontonnier's Node Editor Image Filter (http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/nodes/DP_Filter.html#NodeImgFilt).

lardbros
07-22-2012, 11:52 AM
Ah, so the special formatting is for RSMB? I'll give that free plugin a go... that'll do the trick nicely! :) Does fusion and nuke cope with this natively these days then?


You're a star!! Thanks for such a quick response!

Do you happen to know if this is the same for 3dsmax? and RSMB? Do we have to modify its output for it to work in Aftereffects?

Celshader
07-22-2012, 12:07 PM
Ah, so the special formatting is for RSMB? I'll give that free plugin a go... that'll do the trick nicely! :) Does fusion and nuke cope with this natively these days then?


You're a star!! Thanks for such a quick response!

Do you happen to know if this is the same for 3dsmax? and RSMB? Do we have to modify its output for it to work in Aftereffects?

Yes, the third-party RSMB vector blur plug-ins for Nuke and AfterFX both require special formatting for motion vector data. This special formatting must be present no matter which 3D package renders the data (ex: LightWave, Max-VRay, mental ray, native Max).

However, Nuke ships with a native "VectorBlur" plug-in that can use raw motion vector data without any special formatting. I've heard that Digital Fusion can also use raw motion vector data without any special formatting.

At work we use both Nuke and After Effects. We have two floating licenses of RSMB for the Nuke artists, but I think the Nuke artists use the native VectorBlur plug-in (and raw motion vectors) most of the time.

lardbros
07-22-2012, 12:16 PM
Ah, I see... thanks for the tips. This seems crazy of RSMB, I assumed it would simply work, rather then needing its vectors clamped... but hey ho... at least I know now. Thanks for all the info. Unfortunately we use AfterEffects at work so guess I'll use this LW plugin to convert them. It's a real shame LW doesn't have any options for the motion vectors, it would be awesome if we could just clamp them within LW itself.


I just watched a tutorial for C4d and it appears that the motion vectors that creates work flawlessly within AfterEffects and using RSMB... Maybe I'll FogBugz a feature request... :)

Currently we just have the one floating license of RSMB, but only just getting into it now.

Again, thanks very much for your help!

Celshader
07-22-2012, 12:27 PM
Ah, I see... thanks for the tips. This seems crazy of RSMB, I assumed it would simply work, rather then needing its vectors clamped...

Quick correction here -- RSMB vectors are not clamped. They're relative motion vectors, with the values falling between 0 and 1, instead of the absolute values found in raw motion vector data. There's a big difference between "clamped" and "offset into the positive zone and then scaled down to fit within 0-1."

I want to make this clear because a Nuke compositor went through motion vector hell earlier this year when one of the Maya-VRay artists left his "Clamp Output" checkbox turned on. His raw motion vector data rendered clamped between 0 and 1, instead of with real and raw values like -151 and 57. Clamped motion vectors are useless for post-process blur.


Again, thanks very much for your help!

No problem. :thumbsup:

lardbros
07-22-2012, 12:30 PM
Haha... glad we've got you around to sort us all out. I understand now... I wish they didn't make it so difficult for us :)

erikals
08-05-2012, 12:42 PM
 
Lightwave plugin - RSMB export
http://youtu.be/SO4EIPH-f5I