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robertoortiz
04-20-2012, 10:37 AM
Guys I need to vent,
I work for a small design studio mostly comprised of graphic designers.
My experience with them in the past few years has been honestly quite delightful, having to work in close collaboration with them to meet tight datelines.

On the other hand, some of the rudest people Ii have meet in my life are fellow CG artists that I have encountered outside work.
( just had a run in with one right now)
Jebus in cracker what nasty piece of work this CG guy is.

What is your experience with this?
Am I the only one who feels this way?

-R

SBowie
04-20-2012, 11:13 AM
Am I the only one who feels this way?I don't know that it's any different in other realms, really. Anyone can have a bad day, slip ... but I think you can find cases of habitual rudeness and arrogance (which surely go hand in hand) among business executives, teachers, preachers and pan-handlers, not just 'creatives' (whether actual or self-imagined). I'm afraid I have a low tolerance.

In a similar case, I once remarked (to my boss at the time), "I really don't care if someone can barely draw stick figures or is the love child of Pablo Picasso and Chuck Jones - nobody gets a pass just because they may be talented." Any enterprise or activity I've ever seen is improved by good manners, and I'm blissfully content to struggle along without self-important twits, however brilliant they think they are, or even - in rare cases - may actually be. (And before someone raises the Steve Jobs example, it's a non-starter. He might well have accomplished even more had he been known for being a little more gracious; we'll never know.)

erikals
04-20-2012, 11:18 AM
 
nah, they're everywhere, people in other fields are just better at hiding it...
also artists often live under a lot of pressure, thus venting more...
 

SaleVonGeist
04-20-2012, 01:21 PM
 
nah, they're everywhere, people in other fields are just better at hiding it...
also artists often live under a lot of pressure, thus venting more...
 
Agree, and I don't think it has much to do with specific profession, it just about general personality and manners.

zardoz
04-20-2012, 01:25 PM
in cg I know one or two that where lets say...complicated. But I studied biochemistry and I can say that in the science world it was a lot worse...

stiff paper
04-20-2012, 01:31 PM
On the other hand, some of the rudest people I have meet in my life are fellow CG artists...

Do you mean that they've been deliberately rude or do you think that they couldn't even tell they were being rude?

I find the distinction to be important to how I feel about rudeness. I do think there's at least a slight tendency for people in the "nerdier" professions to be a little under-socialized. There are still plenty of people who work in CG who are perfectly normal and sociable though.

If it's a case of deliberate rudeness, well that's different, and I think that's just people in general rather than anything specifically to do with people in cg.

(I should add, playing devil's advocate, that I think there are times when rudeness is actually called for... it isn't always the wrong thing to do...)

DrStrik9
04-20-2012, 01:33 PM
"Self-importance" is a disease that virtually always leads to arrogant and unpleasant behavior. Narcissism is pretty much everywhere. People who work in technical and/or artistic fields can erroneously begin to believe their own press, or lacking press, can begin to think they are smarter than everyone else -- which in fact makes them "socially stupider" than everyone else. But whether they ever begin the process of learning how to play nice, narcissists are probably going to be difficult to be around for just about everyone but themselves.

robertoortiz
04-20-2012, 03:03 PM
Do you mean that they've been deliberately rude or do you think that they couldn't even tell they were being rude?

The clown was definetly deliberately rude.

In my culture people who act like that we get a free card to deck the guy.
But me beign in the US, that sort of conduct is of course not kosher, so I just smiled back at the jerk.


"Self-importance" is a disease that virtually always leads to arrogant and unpleasant behavior. Narcissism is pretty much everywhere. People who work in technical and/or artistic fields can erroneously begin to believe their own press, or lacking press, can begin to think they are smarter than everyone else -- which in fact makes them "socially stupider" than everyone else. But whether they ever begin the process of learning how to play nice, narcissists are probably going to be difficult to be around for just about everyone but themselves.


Great post.

hazmat777
04-20-2012, 08:23 PM
Some of this article might be helpful.

http://www.chopra.com/wordsfromdeepak

SplineGod
04-20-2012, 08:32 PM
Ive worked in the scientific RnD field for a number of years before getting into CG. I find that people who tend to be creative tend to be given over to being emotional.
Ive probably had the worst experiences with ppl being nasty in the CG industry. Youve
been a moderator on CGTalk for years now and Im sure youve seen your share of nastiness. :)

jimiclaybrooks
04-20-2012, 09:03 PM
There's a whole lotta people in trouble tonite,
from the disease of conceit.
Whole lotta people see'in double tonite,
from the disease of conceit.
Conceit is a disease, but the doctor's got no cure,
they done a lotta research on it,
but what it is they're just not sure.

bob dylan

djwaterman
04-20-2012, 10:45 PM
It's true, we're all a bunch of A.H's.

eagleeyed
04-20-2012, 10:51 PM
As others have said, I think it is applicable for any industry, and can be worse at specific employers if a culture has developed.

I dont have much experience with dealing with CG Houses, however from what I have experienced with them, most are really nice people.

On the other hand, when I was doing my sound course in 2007 nearly every 'professional' I met was way too up themselves. Made me lose my interest in sound and target CG instead. Only just started to get back into sound again, hopefully different experience this time.

GandB
04-21-2012, 12:28 AM
I'm a Corrections Officer at a medium-high security Prison. We tend to develop thick skins. A good day is when everyone leaves without injury.

Having said that; even inside those walls some people do suffer from what I like to call "Legend in their own Mind" syndrome. ;)

Wanting to make a full(ish) go of this CG stuff some day; I'm not sure how I'd handle the occasional "jackass" in this way of life. In my current line of employment; when faced with someone who doesn't quite see it my way....I tend to tell him to shut the (explicative) up, and go lay down. I'm going to assume that attitude will have to be left at the gate there; when dealing with actual clients in the CG world. ;)

biliousfrog
04-22-2012, 06:58 AM
I might just be suffering from old-git syndrome but I think that younger generations in general have far less social skills than previous generations, no doubt caused by the lack of face-to-face social interaction. I suspect that the CG industry will see the effects of this more than some other industries purely because they encourage unsociable hours in a social vacuum where interaction with other humans is often over a faceless internet connection, under an anonymous 'handle', with people that they have never met.

I have also dealt with and worked with numerous people in the CG world that I would suspect, at face value, are probably on the autism spectrum and might struggle to 'fit in' in other industries. There is little doubt that their work is impressive but their social skills can be limited, sometimes eccentric and occasionally verging on downright rudeness...at least that's how it can seem.

Dexter2999
04-22-2012, 10:27 AM
On the other hand, when I was doing my sound course in 2007 nearly every 'professional' I met was way too up themselves. Made me lose my interest in sound and target CG instead. Only just started to get back into sound again, hopefully different experience this time.

TIP: Audio guys can be some of the worst people. If come across someone who is obnoxious like that the best way to handle it is to ask them questions. Preferably smart questions. My experience with them is that by asking them questions you let them show off how smart they are (or think they are). Being as good audio gigs are hard to come by, they can be territorial and view other audio guys as challengers. By asking questions (and praising the answers accordingly) it also sort of subliminally sets them as the "alpha" in the relationship and again they tend to relax.

OnlineRender
04-22-2012, 10:47 AM
says it all :)

http://www.lightwiki.net/NTUPLOADS/random.png

GandB
04-22-2012, 11:02 AM
^ lol!!

SplineGod
04-22-2012, 03:00 PM
I agree. In fact I think with alot of younger people are getting worse because of the time spent on social media like facebook instead of real social media like actual face to face contact. Ive heard of several studies that seem to indicate that. Makes you wonder how these people will be able to function in a high stress, team environment at a studio.
Alot of people Ive worked with over the years in LA probably needed to be in some form of therapy. :)

I also wanted to add something...
I can also see why more and more schools and employers are wanting to see peoples facebook pages. I constanly warn my some of my nieces and nephews here about what they post and how they post it. Ive warned them to think carefully about what they post because it very well could come back to bite them later. I personally find that much of the social media is best used for promotion of a business or for yourself. If one thinks about it from that perspective youre more likely to be careful about what you put out to the public. Ive seen some crazy stuff posted on facebook and would think twice about hiring some of those people. :)

jasonwestmas
04-22-2012, 05:18 PM
I agree with the unsociable life styles aspect of this issue, but that isn't caused by the CG industry. Working as a team player in the CG industry has if anything made me more in touch with myself and other personalities. In return I like myself and other people more because of it.

Being ornery towards others is a factor of CG because of all the problem solving that is being done but that teaches patience and perseverance with the right attitude and frame of mind; Always looking at the bigger picture. In other words the mind of a marathon runner is necessary to get complex projects done on time and to standard.

So if anybody is wondering what makes people more easy to work with, it's because they are experienced with enough tough situations and had the heart to keep going no matter how they felt inside. People become stronger and more wise because of that, but yeah emotions and the pursuit of solving problems can show on our faces and in our dialogue.

shrox
04-22-2012, 05:37 PM
Maybe it's Autism.

jasonwestmas
04-22-2012, 05:53 PM
Or maybe it's Pathological Narcissism. =)

SplineGod
04-22-2012, 06:02 PM
It could be autism, hyeractivity, ADHD etc etc but I find that theres a tendency to label things as a dysfunction or disorder. Im hearing of people who grew up with a lot of siblings who did the normal competing and fighting that goes on with them as now having PTSD. In past times people learned to deal with most of these so called disorders by developing something called a work ethic or self discipline. Theres not even a consensus among doctors and scientists as to whether these dysfunctions and disorders actually exist or not. Many just want a quick fix in the form of a pill or to have the behavior excused because its not their fault as opposed to putting in the hard work to develop self discipline or social skills.
If you look up the definition of autism its not a particular disorder but a whole range of things that could literally be anything. Im not saying there isnt such a thing but I also think theres a tendency to over diagnose as such.
I agree with Jason in that challenges can either make you a better person or make you a far worse one. Usually this is a function of attitude (glass half empty or half full).
My experience has been that a person who can accept a challenge gracefully and be a true problem solver is worth their weight in gold. :)

shrox
04-22-2012, 06:27 PM
I have Asperger's Syndrome, but my only social impairment is that I don't realize it when a woman is hitting on me, I think she is just being nice. Really, it's true. I also make too much eye contact.

I also frequent a forum for that is for Aspies. I do see a lot of "coldness" about others and self focus there, but I also do see many trying to understand the rules of human interaction.

I refer to myself and those of us that seem to benefit from Asperger's Syndrome as X-Men.

jasonwestmas
04-22-2012, 06:35 PM
I knew a Guy with Aspergers. Wild, how much he knew about history.

SplineGod
04-22-2012, 06:45 PM
Cool! Do you have a really neat costume? :)

shrox
04-22-2012, 06:49 PM
Cool! Do you have a really neat costume? :)

Just your basic black leather biker jacket, black jeans and t-shirt with black cowboy boots. Kind of like Sabertooth and Dr. Xavier in one...

SBowie
04-22-2012, 07:00 PM
they can be territorial and view other audio guys as challengers.There's a flock of pigeons in my back yard that manifesta the same behavior. I keep telling my wife all she has to do is stop feeding them and they'll go away. :devil:

erikals
04-22-2012, 08:31 PM
have a bird outside my window now, let me tell you, he... is... LOUD... gosh.
"go to sleep darn bird...!!" (been singing since 4.00am) Zzzzz...

dandeentremont
04-24-2012, 09:11 AM
Ahem (http://forums.newtek.com/showpost.php?p=842203&postcount=36)

jasonwestmas
04-24-2012, 09:21 AM
Ahem (http://forums.newtek.com/showpost.php?p=842203&postcount=36)

yes, it is a little more quiet around here these days.

kopperdrake
04-24-2012, 09:24 AM
I might just be suffering from old-git syndrome but I think that younger generations in general have far less social skills than previous generations, no doubt caused by the lack of face-to-face social interaction.

Nah - you're just an old git ;)

Seriously though - I do think there's truth in them thar words, and SplineGod has also raised, I do think the online culture is to blame for a large chunk. Many of the rules found in online forums (I know it should be fora) were based on rules we adhered to pre-internet, when face-to-face conversation was the norm for most communcation. Now face-to-face is definitely not the norm and we have a generation who spend as much, if not more, communicating via an intermediary device rather than face to face. Social skills are lacking in many. I can see this in job applicants, where many are too familiar. I also see it more with the etiquette of sites such as LinkedIn - many students just try and befriend me for no reason other than they want work and feel it's okay to ask me to be their 'friend'. The subtlety of communication is lost on some, and to those of us who remember the pre-internet days, it can come across as just down-right rude.

It may be old-fashioned, but I think we are losing a very valuable level of respect for others because of this.

jasonwestmas
04-24-2012, 09:30 AM
I admit in my early internet days it was easy to forget that the people I was talking with were actually real people. That instead I treated people more like they were stray animals. I was respectful most of the time but didn't really have the empathy that I do now. Now my conversations on the net are a lot more "real" because I chose to believe they were real and needed real consideration despite my feelings for what was being said back to me. Granted I still kid around when people get hostile but that's no different than how I am face to face.

shrox
04-24-2012, 09:57 AM
I wonder if video conferencing or "presence" as Cisco calls it will affect these trends. It can seem more "real" and face to face.

http://files-410416f2-02b3-4775-b937-ef755d6d57e1.s3.amazonaws.com/telepresence-system-photo-2.jpg

http://www.i-control.com.hk/images/ICSolution/videoconference.jpg

jasonwestmas
04-24-2012, 09:59 AM
Yes, there is a misconception of what reality is or is not but that's a huge can of worms. To many I've noticed they seem to have the attitude of "if I can't see it, then it must not be real." Therefore, if it isn't real then there are no consequences. I think when people get treated like they aren't "real" then hair and blood start flying.

kopperdrake
04-24-2012, 10:35 AM
Maybe Shrox - I know if we video conference with a client then you do tend to build up a more solid personal relationship with them. I find I also tend to relax more, when you can read people better. Maybe this lack of social skills is a blip in the infant days of the internet, and video calls will bring back some of the older values, and maybe even some new ones. Perhaps 'top dressing' will become de rigeur in the future (or bottom un-dressing if you'll pardon the phrase), and bed-head won't matter as long as you stay face-on to the camera :)

jasonwestmas
04-24-2012, 11:10 AM
hehe, I remember all those 80's sci-fi movies and shows that had video conferencing and video phones etc. Now's it's finally getting more common especially with Skype. Too bad people are still so camera shy. I guess that means we have to actually groom ourselves then lol.