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DrStrik9
04-15-2012, 07:46 PM
I'm trying to use what the LW10 docs (Layout pg. 143) call "ObjList," but which in the object's geometry tab under "Object Replacement" is called "ObjectList."

This is the one where in a text file you list the frame number, followed by the path to the object you desire to replace the current object at that frame number (in pairs of lines).

I've checked and triple-checked my text file's paths and object names, and pointed ObjectList to the proper text file, but still it does NOTHING.

Does anyone know if this is broken in LW11, or if there is something the docs neglect to mention for getting it to actually work?

Thanks

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 01:49 AM
Maybe the lscript for ObjList is missing on my computer. I did a system-wide search for possible filenames - anything like objlist, and nothing came up. Is this the problem with ObjList? No plugin? Or maybe an unloaded plugin?

If the plug is missing, where would I find it? Or is this a known problem with ObjList? If so, then I'll just probably be looking for a different way of doing the same thing.

I like this idea of arbitrary object replacement. If it works, it could become very useful in Bullet, especially for transparent fractured objects, such as glass. Every fracture shows up in the render and looks weird, until the glass breaks. So you make one straight lwo, and one fractured lwo: as the straight lwo hits the ground, it is instantly replaced by the fractured one, and the sim continues. The two similar objects never exist in the scene at the same time, which is critical with any Bullet object replacement because an extra object alters the sim, so no object dissolve tricks are possible.

To make sure ObjList wasn't working because of Bullet, I built a very plain scene with four objects, and ObjList doesn't work there either.

Is there a nodal solution to object replacement?

D-Lab
04-16-2012, 06:01 AM
Hi,

It works here (LW11 Discovery), just format your text file without any blank line or space.

I've attached my test file.

Tchao

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 08:38 AM
Hi,

It works here (LW11 Discovery), just format your text file without any blank line or space.

I've attached my test file.

Tchao

Thanks, D-Lab. My HD down to most directory- and file-names have spaces in them. ObjList must be a really OLD script from the dark ages before the "space monster" was (mostly) killed in LW. :(

D-Lab
04-16-2012, 09:29 AM
I've changed the formating a little (doubling the backslash characters) and it works with a space in a directory name.

Example file attached.

Tchao

jeric_synergy
04-16-2012, 09:54 AM
FWIW, often you could use spaces, IF you enclosed the file path/name in quotation marks.

D-Lab
04-16-2012, 10:44 AM
The quote marks doesn't work in this case...(yes, I've tried :))

Tchao

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 12:48 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions. I've tried everything, but it still doesn't work.

I must be doing or neglecting something simple.

Can you look for the plug (if it's a plugin, that is) and let me know the name of it? I still suspect I'm somehow missing the ObjList plug itself, although I've scanned and rescanned all plugin files.

Edit: I found the plugin (ObjRep.plugin), but loading it did not help, as it was already loaded, and "being used." :(

Thanks! :)

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 01:06 PM
The docs say, "Lscript and Lscript/RT - Use these two options to run Lscripts for object replacement." Possibly wrongly, I assumed that this was not necessary, since ObjRep is a plugin. Am I wrong about this, and are there other steps necessary to run this plugin, other than setting up the text file (with double back-slashes in my case) and pointing to it?

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 01:36 PM
My path of directories is long. As a test, I copied the objects to be replaced to my desktop, making the path much shorter.

No success. :(

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 01:40 PM
Here is my text file. Hopefully, there's something there I am not able to see ...

jeric_synergy
04-16-2012, 01:41 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions. I've tried everything, but it still doesn't work.
Okay... lets look at this thing....

Well, for starters, as DL'd here, there were no carriage returns.

2ndly, when I use "copy address as text" in Windows explorer, I get:


D:\TEMP-Downloads\LightWave_11\LW Plugins

So, it seems that's a lot of double-backslashes in there-- I realize some will be used, but aren't they just for the volume name? After that, is it single slashes?

(List generation is a perfect place for an lscript to do all the dirty work, 'cuz it's a fussy PITA task.)

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 01:49 PM
Maybe that's it. I know the Win carriage return and the Mac carriage return are different. Anyone know how to make a Win-style carriage return on a Mac?

The only space I have now is in my HD name. But there are no backslashes BEFORE the HD name. Also, D-Lab's example for a space in any directory name was to use double back-slashes throughout.

At this point, I'm willing to try anything.

jeric_synergy
04-16-2012, 01:52 PM
Maybe that's it. I know the Win carriage return and the Mac carriage return are different. Anyone know how to make a Win-style carriage return on a Mac?

http://hintsforums.macworld.com/showthread.php?t=11451

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 02:13 PM
Thanks for that. Got BBEdit, but with invisibles showing, my "carriage returns" look exactly like D-Lab's carriage returns in his sample text file.

How exactly are you looking at the (non-existent?) carriage returns in my text file sample? (And I'm still wondering if this is really the problem.)

jeric_synergy
04-16-2012, 02:19 PM
How exactly are you looking at the (non-existent?) carriage returns in my text file sample? (And I'm still wondering if this is really the problem.)
I simply loaded your file into Notepad.

EDIT: --scratch that: I tried it again, and it arrived formatted correctly. Either you replaced it (doubtful), or there was a glitch on my end (much more likely). I shoulda screengrabbed it when I got it.

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 02:19 PM
Well, adding the string, & "\r" to each line ending doesn't work (with or without the space).

I have very little hair left at this point. :-/ Any Mac users out there willing to try using ObjList?

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 02:22 PM
jeric_synergy, please take a look at this ending-altered text file and let me know if the carriage returns look proper? Thanks! :)

jeric_synergy
04-16-2012, 02:32 PM
Every example of Mac filepaths I've seen in the past twenty minutes only had ONE set of double slashes, everything else was single slashed, so I'm thinking your filepaths are wrong (too many slashes).

jeric_synergy
04-16-2012, 02:35 PM
jeric_synergy, please take a look at this ending-altered text file and let me know if the carriage returns look proper? Thanks! :)
Doc, here's what I see when I directly open your latest file from Firefox: (see JPG)

How are you obtaining your filepath+filename?

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 02:46 PM
Doc, here's what I see when I directly open your latest file from Firefox: (see JPG)

Yeah, that weird line-ending string hint wasn't a good one.

In opening your text file, I see a red "upside-down question mark" before each line, following a "line-break" character at the end of each line. I copied these characters into my text file in BBEdit, but when I opened that file in the Mac text editor, there were additional (double) line spaces. So I deleted the line-breaks (leaving only the carriage returns). But ObjList still fails to work here in Layout 11.0.1. :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Besides, D-Lab's text file, which he says works for him, doesn't have those additional carriage-returns either. So I give up on this idea. Thanks for all your help! :)

Now I need something else to try. I wonder if there's an arbitrary object replacement lscript or something out there that DOES work ...

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 03:16 PM
So lacking any success with ObjList so far, I'm still trying anything I can think of ...

Any other ideas?

jeric_synergy
04-16-2012, 03:23 PM
So lacking any success with ObjList so far, I'm still trying anything I can think of ...

Any other ideas?
Just the file path: why so many double slashes?

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 03:27 PM
Just the file path: why so many double slashes?

Because that's how D-Lab said he got ObjList to work with any spaces in any drive name, directory name, or object name.

Believe me, I've tried single slashes, double slashes, and all possible combinations of them, and NOTHING WORKS here.

-- unless there's an object in the scene, you can't open Object Properties. So I've been loading a null, setting up ObjList on the null, and hitting "play." Nothing. I've also tried rendering. Nothing. I just removed all the spaces in everything in the path to the replacement objects. Nothing.

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 03:40 PM
With no spaces anywhere, here is my text file now.

Frankly, the ONLY thing that keeps me from giving up on ObjList is that D-Lab said he got it to work in 11 Discovery. I've wasted the better part of a day on this so far. Once I discover the problem, this will be great. But so far, no good. :(

D-Lab
04-16-2012, 04:02 PM
I can confirm you that it works for me on WinXP32 and as jeric, I don't see carriage returns in your text file...

I've taken your last file and corrected it for you to try.

Tchao

jeric_synergy
04-16-2012, 04:12 PM
Yeah, can't get it to work here either.

W7-64, LW11.0 .

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 04:21 PM
I can confirm you that it works for me on WinXP32 and as jeric, I don't see carriage returns in your text file...

I've taken your last file and corrected it for you to try.

Tchao

Thanks. Oddly, I don't see carriage returns in your "corrected" file either. ??? (In BBEdit with invisibles turned on, it looks exactly like my file, unlike the file jeric_synergy sent earlier, which DOES have additional characters for carriage return.)

Trying ObjList using your corrected file gives no success either. I'm thinking at this point that the carriage return issue isn't the problem. Maybe ObjList is just broken on Mac (???)

Until I know, I'm still searching for the real problem.

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 04:23 PM
Yeah, can't get it to work here either.

W7-64, LW11.0 .

Hmmm. So we need to pick D-Lab's brain to see what step he's taking that we aren't. D?

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 04:38 PM
OK, the problem is definitely NOT the carriage returns. In BBEdit, I just discovered that I can save the text file with Windows line endings (line-feed, plus carriage return). This has no effect here.

Still looking for another Mac user to try using ObjList ... maybe it's just hosed on Mac.

xchrisx
04-16-2012, 05:26 PM
I dont have a mac so I cant confirm this, but from what I have seen regarding Lscript documentation is that slashes on the mac are actually different than PC's. So perhaps it is something like the following:

#LW Object Replacement List
0
Michael HD/Users/mstrickland/Desktop/testObjList/ball-001.lwo
10
Michael HD/Users/mstrickland/Desktop/testObjList/box-001.lwo
20
Michael HD/Users/mstrickland/Desktop/testObjList/cone-001.lwo
30
Michael HD/Users/mstrickland/Desktop/testObjList/Opdisc-001.lwo

DrStrik9
04-16-2012, 05:32 PM
I dont have a mac so I cant confirm this, but from what I have seen regarding Lscript documentation is that slashes on the mac are actually different than PC's. So perhaps it is something like the following:

#LW Object Replacement List
0
Michael HD/Users/mstrickland/Desktop/testObjList/ball-001.lwo
10
Michael HD/Users/mstrickland/Desktop/testObjList/box-001.lwo
20
Michael HD/Users/mstrickland/Desktop/testObjList/cone-001.lwo
30
Michael HD/Users/mstrickland/Desktop/testObjList/Opdisc-001.lwo

Yes, thank you for thinking of it. I thought of that too (should have been said in docs if was true), but it doesn't work. I've tried forward slashes, backward slashes, colons, single and double, with spaces and without. But NOTHING works.

I'm hoping some Mac user will wander through and take pity on me and try ObjList on their Mac.

But having said that, I'm willing to try just about anything at this point.

BTW, is there any documentation on how to use your lscript, "cp_replaceselected"? And will it do what ObjList can't seem to? - Thanks

D-Lab
04-16-2012, 11:58 PM
It seems to be a MAC problem (I'm not sure you would like to have my brain :D), but you can try Object Sequencer for which you just have to rename properly your objects...

Tchao

jeric_synergy
04-17-2012, 01:23 AM
It seems to be a MAC problem....
Tchao
That may well be, but I wasn't able to get it to work here, W7-64.

Perhaps it's a 64bit problem.

+++
FWIW, here's the text file I used:

#LW Object Replacement List
0
J:\Fox-Stork\Objects\Auger.lwo
10
J:\Fox-Stork\Objects\basketball.lwo
20
J:\Fox-Stork\Objects\fastDogModel.lwo
30
J:\Fox-Stork\Objects\Ivy1.lwo

DrStrik9
04-17-2012, 01:32 AM
It seems to be a MAC problem (I'm not sure you would like to have my brain :D), but you can try Object Sequencer for which you just have to rename properly your objects...

Tchao

I think your brain is a good one. :) Thanks for taking interest in this losing quest with ObjList. You are right, the thing to do is use Object Sequence, and ... drum roll please ... it works! :D

DrStrik9
04-17-2012, 01:38 AM
That may well be, but I wasn't able to get it to work here, W7-64.

Perhaps it's a 64bit problem.

You may be right. I'm running in 64-bit here too. But it's a moot point now that Object Sequence works. Just rename the objects to the frame number, no text file, simple, and best of all, effective. :)

jeric_synergy
04-17-2012, 01:48 AM
Yeah, but it would be nice to get ObjList fixed, or determine what the issue is.

ObjList would be a lot more convenient/useful if it had a companion script that would generate the text file, eliminating the inevitable and frustrating errors introduced when a human tries to create such a list. (What a PITA that was.)

DrStrik9
04-17-2012, 02:11 AM
Yeah, but it would be nice to get ObjList fixed, or determine what the issue is.

ObjList would be a lot more convenient/useful if it had a companion script that would generate the text file, eliminating the inevitable and frustrating errors introduced when a human tries to create such a list. (What a PITA that was.)

Man, no kidding. I wasted an entire day trying to get it to work, which in hindsight was probably a bit stubborn of me. :) But you don't really know something is broken until you try, right?

D-Lab
04-17-2012, 02:54 AM
I'm on WIN7 64 and I've just downloaded LW11.0.1 64 Trial.
ObjectList is working nicely...

I can't save a scene from the Trial but I've attached a .7z with content that works for me:
- set the content directory accordingly to where you put my content files.
- modify the ObjList_Test text file (provided in the objects folder) to conform to your paths.
- in layout, load an object and add ObjectList pointing to the precedent text file.

Following these steps, all is fine...

DrStrik9
04-17-2012, 06:33 AM
OK, here is a major issue with Object Sequence. Say you load Object-A at frame 0, and Object-B at frame 30. Once you scrub past frame 30 (and Object-B loads) you must scrub all the way back to frame 0 in order to reload Object-A. And likewise, if you want to see Object-B in the scene, you must scrub through the fame it is loaded (30). In itself, this isn't a big issue. But since Object Sequence is a linear process, you must ALWAYS start rendering at frame 0 (if that's where you load your first object). If you abort rendering at say frame 90, then begin rendering later at frame 91, Object Sequence only loads the FIRST object (from frame 0), NOT the SECOND one you wanted to load at frame 30. DOH! (bummer)

This means you must render the entire scene in one go. :(

Does this happen with ObjList? If not, I'm going to submit a bug report.

jeric_synergy
04-17-2012, 08:06 AM
I'm on WIN7 64 and I've just downloaded LW11.0.1 64 Trial.
ObjectList is working nicely...

I can't save a scene from the Trial but I've attached a .7z with content that works for me:

Here, 7zip doesn't want to open it. ::sigh::

D-Lab
04-17-2012, 08:31 AM
DrStrik9,
With ObjList, the objects change at the frame you specified in a way and another.
I mean, object1 at frame 9, object2 at frame 10 and when you go back to frame 9 it's object1 again, don't need to go to frame 0.

Anyway, I suggest you to report this problem through FogBugz, the feedback speed is really impressive.

edit:With Object Sequencer, to start rendering at frame 91, just scrub the timeline past 30 (where your object changes) and hit F10, it should be ok...

jeric_synergy,
Just tried my attachment and it works... 7-Zip version 9.20

Tchao

DrStrik9
04-17-2012, 11:06 AM
Fog-Bugz'd ObjList for Mac this morning.

jeric_synergy
04-17-2012, 11:26 AM
jeric_synergy,
Just tried my attachment and it works... 7-Zip version 9.20
Tchao
The weird thing is, I don't even get the "Open With..." option when I right-click it. WT?? Other "*.zip" files get the "Open With..." option.

I'm sure it's on my end. :2guns: I hate my end.

;D

D-Lab
04-17-2012, 12:24 PM
Win RAR opens it quite well also and here it is in RAR format !!

Tchao

DrStrik9
04-18-2012, 01:50 PM
WOW, those NT Dev dudes are FAST! -- I only submitted the bug report yesterday, and got an email that it is not only fixed already, but how I can use the current plugin successfully NOW ... :thumbsup:

Quoting the developer who emailed me:
"This is fixed, but I can tell you how to get it working with current plugin. It has to do with "line endings" --you need to use a text editor that ends the lines with LF ::ONLY:: -- so Unix ... if it has CR/LF (windows) it will fail. Tested this and this does work. Now -- the fix (which will come in later builds) will be able to ignore and mix and match ... so it won't be so touchy on that subject. Thanks for the report."

On Mac, BBEdit (text editor) can save line endings as unix text (line feed only). So ... as soon as my present render is done, I will test this and report here.

Jeric_Synergy, the reason you may not have had success with ObjList previously, is because your text files use Windows line-endings, which include a Carriage Return. Who knew??? :)

jeric_synergy
04-18-2012, 02:35 PM
WOW, those NT Dev dudes are FAST! -- I only submitted the bug report yesterday, and got an email that it is not only fixed already, but how I can use the current plugin successfully NOW ... :thumbsup:
Huzzah!

Quoting the developer who emailed me:
"This is fixed, but I can tell you how to get it working with current plugin. It has to do with "line endings" --you need to use a text editor that ends the lines with LF ::ONLY:: -- so Unix ... if it has CR/LF (windows) it will fail. Tested this and this does work. Now -- the fix (which will come in later builds) will be able to ignore and mix and match ... so it won't be so touchy on that subject. Thanks for the report."

On Mac, BBEdit (text editor) can save line endings as unix text (line feed only). So ... as soon as my present render is done, I will test this and report here.

Jeric_Synergy, the reason you may not have had success with ObjList previously, is because your text files use Windows line-endings, which include a Carriage Return. Who knew??? :)
No doubt. :thumbsup: Thanks for that info.

However, just to rain on the parade: THIS IS EXACTLY the type of factoid that could EASILY be added to the PDFs and disseminated to the user base electronically, if only NewTek had the will to make it happen.

Every week I send multiple corrections and omissions to NewTek regarding their documentation. I hope others are doing that too. For the most part, I'm sure users are using the PDFs versus any paper documentation, the paramount consideration being that file-based dox are Searchable (although that's no excuse for not having a good Index).

Items like this could easily be added to these electronic documents and be a constantly updated service to the LightWave user base if NewTek would simply fund the position to make it happen.

It's the damn 21st Century!!! :devil: We may not have aircars, but we can certainly have constantly improving documentation.

DrStrik9
04-18-2012, 02:52 PM
Huzzah!
THIS IS EXACTLY the type of factoid that could EASILY be added to the PDFs and disseminated to the user base electronically, if only NewTek had the will to make it happen.

I see your point, but 1) they didn't know about this issue until yesterday (and it's fixed already), and 2) ostensibly, this problem won't be an issue in future releases. I really do think this is what the forums are for. (And I am very grateful for your and D-Lab's assistance as I pulled out my remaining hair while trying to figure ObjList out!) :)

Personally I can't imagine getting a new communication every time each little fix is made, via email, or pdf. :)

I suppose if NT had a full-time documentation dept., what you suggest might be possible, via say the Registration Page or something. But I suspect they may be hiring doc construction on a freelance basis around upgrade times, to save costs. I can't really blame 'em for that.

Also, as someone who has constructed many long documents over the years, it's no picnic to make a change on page 47 that makes you change every page after that, for room's sake, all the way to page 312, or whatever. Talk about EXPENSIVE.

This is a near-perfect example of the "bleeding edge" nature of 3D software development. There will always be something that doesn't work as expected. I'm just glad the developers are on full-time staff! And they do seriously ROCK.

jeric_synergy
04-18-2012, 03:06 PM
I see your point, but 1) they didn't know about this issue until yesterday (and it's fixed already), and 2) ostensibly, this problem won't be an issue in future releases.
1) There are other undocumented problems of long standing.
2) I don't expect another patch, such as SP1, in under 3 months.


I really do think this is what the forums are for. (And I am very grateful for your and D-Lab's assistance as I pulled out my remaining hair while trying to figure ObjList out!) :)

Personally I can't imagine getting a new communication every time each little fix is made, via email, or pdf. :)
That's why the subject line said "MONTHLY". And the PDF download would be voluntary. (Who said 'email'?) Monthly, there would be an announcement here, "The latest corrected dox are now available at the following link...."

And subjects discussed in the forums often are rather UNsearchable, in that they sometimes use oddball language.

And I, personally, would welcome such a resource. Even here, a closed Forum that only a staffer could post to could be a centralized, and that's key, place to find errata and omissions, as they are found, before they are integrated into the documentation. In fact, that would be a good and traditional name for such a board: "Errata and Ommisions".

D-Lab
04-18-2012, 03:47 PM
Hi,

I'm glad the problem is solved for the future upgrades and that they gave you a workaround, I had told you the bug staff is really good !!

Tchao

DrStrik9
04-18-2012, 10:07 PM
Well, it still doesn't work here, even using BBEdit and saving as unix (LF only, No CR). :(

D-Lab
04-19-2012, 12:49 AM
Hi,

I've attached 2 files for you to try with the content I've posted before...

Good luck.

DrStrik9
04-19-2012, 03:21 AM
No joy. I'm tired of doing exactly the same thing over and over, expecting different results. It doesn't work, it doesn't work, it doesn't work. (Did I mention that it doesn't work?) :)

jeric_synergy
04-19-2012, 09:05 AM
DrStrik9, if you code, perhaps coding this will save your remaining hair-- an LScript that:

takes user LWO selections,
copies the LWOs to a new folder,
renames them appropriately for use with ObjectSequence.


That would automate that particular PITA. And to get around the "non-loading until key frames are achieved" issue, given enough disk space you can:

just create copies for every frame OR
create a lot of copies around particular critical frames.


Good luck!

DrStrik9
04-19-2012, 09:52 AM
DrStrik9,
With Object Sequencer, to start rendering at frame 91, just scrub the timeline past 30 (where your object changes) and hit F10, it should be ok...


Boy I sure wish this worked too. It doesn't here. No matter where I scrub prior to continuing a stopped render, (after the last object change using Object Sequence) LW only loads the first object for all subsequent frames rendered.

DrStrik9
04-19-2012, 11:30 AM
DrStrik9, if you code, ... <snip> ...
Good luck!

Thanks man. I have coded some cool stuff before, but in order to do so I tend to become a non-social hermit who lives in an alternate universe and sleeps maybe every three or four days. I made the life-saving decision long ago to be a user rather than a programmer. :)

So thanks for the good wishes, but I'll just send bug- and feature-requests to the people who are able to live a reasonably normal life while doing that marvelous activity. :)

jeric_synergy
04-19-2012, 12:46 PM
TOTALLY understand: I made the same decision a long time ago. ---But sometimes, at night, I hear the sirens singing....

Perhaps some coder w/time on his/her hands will have pity on us. Or the devs will figure out WTF is going on w/yours and my machines.

And: both my idea above, and a script to create ObjList text lists, are good utility ideas. Getting those paths in text form is a PITB.

D-Lab
04-19-2012, 01:39 PM
Boy I sure wish this worked too. It doesn't here. No matter where I scrub prior to continuing a stopped render, (after the last object change using Object Sequence) LW only loads the first object for all subsequent frames rendered.

About Object Sequencer, here are the steps that work for me :

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103671&stc=1&d=1334863769


The next thing left to do is to come to the fantastic world of Windows :D

Tchao

DrStrik9
04-19-2012, 09:48 PM
Yup, that's how it should work alright. They're working on a solution for next upgrade, to make the syntax less ambiguous.