View Full Version : 3Play 425 "Fast Jog" freezes playback

04-15-2012, 03:00 PM
I read about this issue in another thread, but is was started by someone with a 320 and I think this issue deserves it's own look. You simply CAN NOT FAST JOG on one channel with the 3 Play 425 while playing out of another channel. It freezes the playout on the channel you were using for a replay.

Clearly, this seems like a hardware limitation, but I truly hope a software fix can achieve a resolve. We can "recreate" this problem every time we do it, so I'm shocked that the techs had not seen it before these units shipped out. We have a 4 in 1 out replay machine and I hope that 2nd channel isn't kaput for good!

04-15-2012, 06:20 PM
For clarification, I think you meant the other thread was started by someone with a 820 (not a 320)... but we cannot use our Fast Jog at all on the 425 either. It is even worse if A+B are linked and you try to use Fast Jog.

We have to make sure all of our replay operators know NOT to use Fast Jog, which is unfortunate.

04-15-2012, 09:13 PM
I'll make some inquiries about this, but the reason for this post is to suggest a formal bug report.

04-16-2012, 07:53 AM
I will file a bug report Steve. Just looking to see if others had a work around or if my machine was exhibiting poor performance specifically.

04-16-2012, 08:25 AM
I was just in QA, and apparently there is an update addressing this 'Fast Jog issue' that is due to be posted shortly. It's been in testing, but release if pending. I'll keep an eye on its progress and post once it's up.

04-16-2012, 01:53 PM
Awesome news Steve, thank you so much for the update. Almost unbelievable news! I found 2 more bugs today. They arent bugs I can replicate but I will file them as well.

-Lost "remove" function from surface control and mouse right click/remove
-Playback began "fading" to itself like a transition but on a 1 clip playout.(very odd)

04-25-2012, 10:28 PM
We upgraded the 425 with a couple days remaining in our production last week. It dramatically improved performance overall. FYI to users even with the new software, if you have to power down a camera for whatever reason, be sure to stop recording while that input is dead. If you do not, you will have a bad day :( There is a timecode issue that throws off everything. After one of cameras had to change batteries, we experienced a dozen bugs in about 15 minutes. Stopped the recording, rebooted software and back to normal. We attributed the previously mentioned bug above, of a clip fading into itself to this as well. Newtek is aware of this issue and will likely be addressed in the next software release fingers crossed. Although we did not really push the system by using both A and B outputs, the machine preformed much better overall and we will try to utilize both outputs at our next event.

One bug that remained through the new release was the ability to "remove" clips from the playlist. With both the control surface button and the mouse right click/remove. We ran the updated version of the 425 for 5 days and had this bug happen 4 times. A simple reboot of software cured this every time. It happens when you stress out the system with a series of fast paced requests, then you immediately grab a clip in the playlist and attempt to relocate it from the bottom where clips "default" to when you click "add to playlist". let that clip settle there for a 2 count before you grab it and try to move it and you should be good. You will know if the bug has happened as a white line appears above that last clip that is not normally there.

Many will likely not experience this remove clip bug as we run our machine for 8-9 hours with 4 cameras and push replays off of it every 30 seconds to a minute with a highlight package every 15 minutes. Pretty rigorous, demanding days for the machine.

04-26-2012, 07:48 AM
Many will likely not experience this remove clip bug as we run our machine for 8-9 hours with 4 cameras and push replays off of it every 30 seconds to a minute with a highlight package every 15 minutes. Pretty rigorous, demanding days for the machine.

Brian, what type of event are you shooting? We have approached that timing sequence in the past doing tennis in the heat of battle. Our 820 did very well using original version software. One thing we moved to was instead of marking in or out, we just grab the jog wheel and spun it back then rolled in the replay. A+B buttons were selected. Granted in tennis we only had 2 real replay angles (player iso's). Every once in a while we would replay the high and wide then the winning player's action then the losers reaction. Depending on game intensity sometimes we would have replays every 45-60 seconds with a replay duration of 5-10 sec at most

I had a great exchange at NAB with John Strauss, now a NT sales engineer. He showed me a few tricks he has worked out using 3play for replay applications. Some of them were real "well, Duh" moments and others were functions I had forgotten about. I find that we often get in a rut doing things one way just because we started that way. Even though there is a better way to do it. Sometimes I do wish I could crawl around in the NT engineer's head that wrote most of 3Play.

04-26-2012, 08:21 AM
I just wanted to mention that Rev. 4a is now available using 3Play's built-in update function. (QA has not yet been able to replicate the delete issue described below, but is still pursuing it. The Fast Jog issue is resolved.)

04-26-2012, 10:12 AM
We were doing a surfing contest in Panama last week. 3 cameras on the action and the 4th on the beach for color and crowd reaction. The 425 was on at 7am and shut down at 5 or 6pm for 8 days straight. We were in a climate controlled box thankfully and we had it as cold as it would go. When a set of waves come in usually all 4 athletes in the heat catch a wave, we show the first one live and cut to another once the 1st one is over, usually it's the 3rd wave we show next because we have already missed too much of the 2nd to show it live. So we end up replaying wave 2 and 4 for sure and we replay wave 1 and 3 if they were high scoring rides. There are a ton of replays and there are no breaks in surf contests. As soon as the horn blows for one heat to be over, they count to five and blow the horn for the next heat. One of the days we did 32, 20 minute heats. Almost 11 hours. Our 425 fills up at about 8:36 when recording 4 cameras.

I totally understand what you are saying about alternative methods and work flows with this new system. It's great, we love it the work flow. I know I am far away from mastering the capabilities of creating the best possible product out of the 425. Every day my operator would go "check this out" and he would show me a new method or way to accomplish a task. There is much to learn yet.

As you mentioned, sometimes we need a replay immediately and would just jog back to the start of the wave because we know half way through it that it is going to be very high score. Say for example, someone does a big air 360, my op would jog back and ready the clip from the start, hit play but the pull the T-Bar down to 0 so that he can start the clip slow by pushing back up on it when the TD called for it. This was a great way to get a replay out right away. After the replay he would then log the clip and move into whatever bin he had the daily highlights and to the bin he had for the "heat recap". At the end of every heat we do a heat recap, usually 30-45 seconds long, then 1 minute commercial break. This of course eats into the next heat by a few minutes so almost every time we come back from commercial break, the replay op has 2-5 waves to replay.

We are running the new version. We caught wind of it a couple days into the production and got to run it 4-5 days I forget exactly. It was much more robust and that is for sure. Right away we noticed better performance. However, this remove clip bug popped up on us 4 or 5 times after the new version was installed. I know what causes it I think. As I mentioned above it happens only if my operator is really ripping around the system at a fast pace. He then selects a clip above in the clip list area and hits "add to playlist" in order to drop it down below to use in a playout. It's almost as if he grabs the clip before it has settled and tries to move it to the spot in which he wants the clip to play in the sequence of clips. I kept telling him, if you "add to playlist" let it settle for a 2 count before moving it. About once a day, he would go "sh$t! I tried to grab it right away and it froze, replays are down, I'm rebooting". 30 seconds later we're back up and the function is fine.

04-26-2012, 10:28 AM
We are running the new version.Yeah, I know (and I confirmed this am that QA was aware of your report, just in case). My note was for the benefit of everyone else. :)

04-26-2012, 03:08 PM
Copy that. FYI to all, the new version is much better. Almost unbelievable really!

08-01-2012, 11:05 AM
Update: FYI
If anyone is experiencing stutter while slowing down video with the T-Bar it is due to an extended USB cable. We have used up to a 15' cable, but it must be one piece, not coupled. When using a joined extension we were seeing a 3 frame freeze when the T-Bar passed 75%, 50% etc. Literally hanging up for 3 frames at each of the fixed selectable buttons next to the T-Bar. Was driving me nuts, but fogbuz techs responded with the suggestion and it so far has solved our issue with freeze frames when slowing video playback. Use a 1 piece solid cable, probably good advice across all Newtek machines.