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View Full Version : Variety "If I donít put a visual effects shop out of business Iím not doing my Job"



robertoortiz
04-08-2012, 11:23 AM
This a quote from a 2007 variety article.



Quote from the article:

"The beleaguered f/x houses also find their pay eroding as rival shops open up around the world. Effects budgets may be soaring, but they're being spread over many more houses and many more shots. Effects houses are still paid by the shot, and per-shot fees have fallen 30%-40%.

The studios complain that the visual f/x shops always go over budget. Shops complain that they're asked to absorb costs of poor studio and producer planning.



One producer, according to a story making the rounds of vfx shops, is reported to have said, "If I don't put a visual effects shop out of business (on my movie), I'm not doing my job."'

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117965871


So how has the situation changed in the past 5 years?

The recent announcement by Digital Domain of using student labor (free workers) has put a new spotlight on the economies of VFX studios.
Looking forward to your comments
-R

Dexter2999
04-08-2012, 12:44 PM
Studios need to negotiate first dollar gross point deals same as the talent.

akademus
04-08-2012, 01:26 PM
F/X "shops" are suppose to consider "studios" a client. I always hated that in TV commercials business that you have "creative advertising agency" standing between you and client and making the line between consumer and provider very very blurry with a lot of gray space they just enjoy to exploit.

I once worked for a production house which was owned by Ogilvy member agency and its a living hell when they can do whatever they want.

I think in both cases things should be clear - studio, producer or advertising agency should be considered client and treated the same way. You get what you pay for and what you asked for. If it doesn't work later on its your frecking problem.

Dexter2999
04-08-2012, 02:00 PM
F/X "shops" are suppose to consider "studios" a client. I always hated that in TV commercials business that you have "creative advertising agency" standing between you and client and making the line between consumer and provider very very blurry with a lot of gray space they just enjoy to exploit.

I once worked for a production house which was owned by Ogilvy member agency and its a living hell when they can do whatever they want.

I think in both cases things should be clear - studio, producer or advertising agency should be considered client and treated the same way. You get what you pay for and what you asked for. If it doesn't work later on its your frecking problem.

I used to do graphics for events for our company. So this would all be "internal". I remember that for a Fourth of July event I did a graphic and my manager came by and gave me a list of six changes that he said came from the V.P. of Entertainment.

So, I took the graphic down and was furiously trying to get the changes made when the V.P actually walked in. He asked why we weren't playing the graphic. I explained I was trying to make the list of changes that he asked for. He looked confused and said, "I didn't say any of that. I asked if this (one thing) could be changed without a problem. But if you can't get it done then don't worry about it. It's fine."

The list of changes came from three managers between me and V.P. level. Everyone just tossing in their two cents.

erikals
04-08-2012, 02:02 PM
 
there is nothing we as artists can do, this is how it is, the only way is to adapt.
(there are several ways to adapt though > compete > go indie > move up in the chain > or other methods... )

 

stiff paper
04-08-2012, 02:23 PM
Everyone just tossing in their two cents.

I assume you already know only too well, but that's the normal way of things. At Digital Domain I once had a VFX Supervisor request major changes to the same set of textures every single day for over two weeks, and then on the Friday at the end of all this, he came to me and announced that he'd just showed it to the client (for the very first time) and these were the changes they wanted. And having never seen it before, they asked for it to be changed into the very first version I'd submitted, over two weeks prior.

Far too many people in "Positions" behave, far too often, like simple minded jungle animals who have to "spray" their scent on everything that comes near them.

When it comes up, as it does, that VFX work simply costs too much, I think about how much time I've spent over the years doing completely unnecessary, idiotic, ego driven things, and I multiply that by a whole industry, and I wonder what that costs.

Of course, for every ten people sitting there doing stupid things (or nothing at all), there's always one guy over there in the corner working a 14 to 17 hour day fixing up all the crap.

But hey, that's VFX, and ain't it great. Or not.

Mr. Wilde
04-08-2012, 03:16 PM
 
there is nothing we as artists can do, this is how it is, the only way is to adapt.
(there are several ways to adapt though > compete > go indie > move up in the chain > or other methods... )

 

Unions, guilds, strikes.

shrox
04-08-2012, 03:18 PM
Unions, guilds, strikes.

Finger pointing, followed by heads on pikes.

erikals
04-08-2012, 03:18 PM
i'll believe it when i see it... :\

Dexter2999
04-08-2012, 04:23 PM
Finger pointing, followed by heads on pikes.

My version of that is, "Don't start with me Mister!, or there will be finger pointing and eyebrows raised!"

shrox
04-08-2012, 05:58 PM
My version of that is, "Don't start with me Mister!, or there will be finger pointing and eyebrows raised!"

Heads on pikes definitely raises the eyebrows of the piked...and the spirits of those passing by.

erikals
04-09-2012, 10:08 AM
Disney strike method, use the art itself to demonstrate >

http://deneroff.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Disney-Strike-Are-We-Mice-or-Men_thumb.jpg

cresshead
04-09-2012, 10:33 AM
mice...well rats actually stuck in a maze/trap

welcome to the world where the lowest bidder wins the project

jeric_synergy
04-09-2012, 10:41 AM
There's an appropos quote from "Snow Crash" about "once the Invisible Hand has lowered the world's average standard of living to something a Pakistani bricklayer would find acceptable...."

jasonwestmas
04-09-2012, 11:44 AM
The higher bidder can still win.

SaleVonGeist
04-10-2012, 01:41 PM
One producer, according to a story making the rounds of vfx shops, is reported to have said, "If I don't put a visual effects shop out of business (on my movie), I'm not doing my job."'

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117965871
-R

Hmmmm...nice insight of disturbed mind at work. I guess this goes more towards psychology domain.