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prometheus
03-18-2012, 10:15 AM
Well ..I just recently downloaded at is trying it out for the moment.

Ive been complaining about the poor preview window wich was very small and you just couldnīt get any good feedback when tweaking clouds.

That is something they improved on, you can now size the whole atmosphere editor window and with that you scale up the preview window aswell..so thatīs a little better.
You can still not tweak the atmosphere editor and see it update interactive in the VPR unfortunatly, like you can with skytracer or ogo taiki.

other things are still missing such as the cloud detail tab that exists in vue, and you can still not acess cloud layer functions wich means you are restricted to those cloud layers provided as presets or if you already have vue and create them from there.
so you cant correct any cloud layers that have stretching on them etc, you can only change shape with the overall scaling.

Now the cloud layers provided within the spectral atmosphere is spectral
and spectral 2, I do not understand how they have named these? I mean
in vue they have reached spectral 3 Underhood technology improvements, but they still have the cloud layers as spectral 2.

The plugin itself is called ozone 4? they are on a plugin version called ozone6 and are only confusing things up for newbie installers.

I canīt see lensflares and star filter working correctly in lightwave, they show up in the preview window, but in vpr or final render it doesnīt seem to be there.

If you are trying to move cloud layer or the rotate the camera with vpr on and ozone, well you have to wait a long time before it reacts, it seems to freeze almost.

Apart from it rendering beautiful atmosphere and cloud shading, it still needs a lot of improvements.

and as far as render time..well the standard spectral 1 layers are decent both in vpr and in final render, but the spectral 2 layers are extremly slow.
getting hypervoxels to work with it would shoot rendertimes rocket high too with the raymarching option that is needed.

Michael

Phil
03-18-2012, 12:47 PM
Now the cloud layers provided within the spectral atmosphere is spectral
and spectral 2, I do not understand how they have named these? I mean
in vue they have reached spectral 3 Underhood technology improvements, but they still have the cloud layers as spectral 2.

I think this is explained in the documentation. Spectral 3 is a refinement of the model for spectral 2 atmospheres. It's not a new set of parameters, just a model refinement, so there are no spectral 3 atmospheres per se - just better looking spectral 2 atmospheres.


The plugin itself is called ozone 4? they are on a plugin version called ozone6 and are only confusing things up for newbie installers.

That's a result of the LW SDK, and scene file content, from what I understand. Vue has the same 'quirk' with the main plugin being called Vue7xStream. e-on and NT are aware of this, but there's been no great pressure to address it, and probably legacy issues prevent an easy change.


and as far as render time..well the standard spectral 1 layers are decent both in vpr and in final render, but the spectral 2 layers are extremly slow.
getting hypervoxels to work with it would shoot rendertimes rocket high too with the raymarching option that is needed.

Michael

People keep saying this, but I still find Vue render times for atmospheres to be just fine, even with raymarching. It's a model-based calculation, so will always need some account to be taken. Comparing it to the pathetic results from SkyTracer will always be a matter of magnifying-glass-from-christmas-cracker to electron-beam microscope.

prometheus
03-25-2012, 08:05 AM
hereīs the best improvement for ozone6, the preview window..
as you can see on the left preview, that is what we had as a preview window to tweak in, pretty lousy right?

The right preview is how much we now can scale up the preview window, wich is much better in order to see cloud detail.

Still waiting for the advanced cloud material editor, as it is now, you can not rotate, stretch, move the clouds in to position, and you can not acess density curves,density productionfunctions, and cloud layer detail tab where you set scaling,roughness,variations,uniformity..this is a big minus.

Also in the lack of advanced cloud material editor, You do not have access to change light model either and you can not therefore correct atmosphere wich doesnīt have cast shadows activated.

The effects tab with lensflares and starfilter doesnīt seem to work in Lightwave 11, so to get a sun with proper star filter is not possible it seems, not quite sure thou.

Otherwise, I love the atmopherics and the results from the sky,fog,haze anisotrophy etc and godrays, just missing better cloud functions handling.

the preview improvements helps a lot now, even thou I would also see it work directly in VPR ..something for Newtek team to call up the Eonsoftware team and take a look in to is my suggestion.

Metaclouds on sphereīs arenīt possible and getting high cumulus individual
pillars arenīt really possible within ozone.

Would be amazing if such thing could be applied on geometry or point,particle clusters, at least you could use particles for The universal atmospheric plugin OgoTaiki, something like that with ozone would be great.

They should implement preview animation too within ozone, so when you set your cloud velocity you can play that back pretty fast.

Im putting up some test of ozone on my vimeo page, more to come I think.

prometheus
04-19-2012, 01:05 AM
I Have to correct my statements about ozone lensflare and starfilter not working, it does.
You do have to activate Apply lens flare on ozone lights, and you will find that in the options panel, under the render options tab..not to confuse with render options panel( why do they have two of these)

So with that activated and setting star filter in the atmosphere editors effects tab, it should work nicely.

Ivé been having issues with moving and rotating camera while having vpr on for ozone scenes, it is almost impossible to rotate etc and it mostly hangs the whole interface, this was not the case with lw 10 and ozone 5.

I also had my HUB screwed up shortly after ozone 6 install, but I am not sure ozone is the cause of it, had to reinstall LW 11 again completly.

This happens with LW 11 build 2238 and ozone 6

gerry_g
04-19-2012, 12:10 PM
what about LW 11.0.1 build 2253, Ozone 5 doesn't work with it how about 6 ?

prometheus
04-19-2012, 12:38 PM
what about LW 11.0.1 build 2253, Ozone 5 doesn't work with it how about 6 ?

no clue about the lw 11.01 sp1, and ozone 6 have yet to download and install, maybe some other who knows?
I used build 2238 of LW11-64 bit and ozone 6

3dworks
08-22-2012, 12:08 PM
i'm quite disappointed with the current ozone plugin and posted in eon's forums about my issues:

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/support/forum2/viewtopic.php?p=32656#32656

maybe more LW users should complain there, i guess their developers are not reading NT forums.

cheers

markus

fazi69
08-22-2012, 12:31 PM
Have You tried how transparency work in Ozone 6 ? I always had problems in older versions. Especially while using transparency maps on things like leaves or grass.

HenrikSkoglund
08-22-2012, 03:01 PM
i'm quite disappointed with the current ozone plugin and posted in eon's forums about my issues:

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/support/forum2/viewtopic.php?p=32656#32656

maybe more LW users should complain there, i guess their developers are not reading NT forums.

cheers

markus

"everything acts like molasses." LOL ;)

No but seriously, this is sad to hear. It seems that e-on software often have problems like this going on...

prometheus
08-23-2012, 04:20 AM
Yes..I was about to post on e-on forums what Ivé been posting here , but I ran into trouble acessing the forums, and registring and all that, it was so much Hazzle and I couldnīt get any respons from their contacts on how to get registration and login fixed, so I just dropped it.

Im just using learning editions and I am not that active in the e-on forums, therefore I tend to forget password, and the system of retreiving new ones doesnīt seem to work, or take very very long time before anything is sent out agai.

Ozone6 isnīt really what you think or what you think it should be, but I have mentioned that before here in this thread.

Michael

gerry_g
08-23-2012, 04:36 AM
I think they got hacked some time back and warned every one to update their account details (new password etc), when I bought Ozone 6 I could not get a download request response for trying then I updated my account and changed my password and everything worked fine. Yes this version seems dog slow and on another note I thought you said the prevue window was resizable, on the Mac version it's just the same as before unless I've missed something

prometheus
08-23-2012, 04:41 AM
I think I would rather go for Ogo taiki than ozone, it works in full vpr with tweaking of the settings, and you have acess to all lightwave procedurals for full cloud control, and you can use particle emitters for gas or billowing clouds, you can have heated air refraction, you can also have full earth planet view which you cant in ozone.
Also think hypervoxels together with ogo taiki works faster than hypvervoxels and ozone., or simply use the ogo taiki volumetrics for particle smoke trails, ozone requires activation of ray marcher which is snail slow.

Unfortunatly I can not acess e-on forums, tried to get resent passwords but do not get anything, maybe Im not allowed in or something?
So they wonīt have me complaining or giving suggestions:D

Michael

prometheus
08-23-2012, 06:51 AM
Our other alternative for cool looking volumetric atmosphere and clouds..pros and cons.


Hereīs some pros of using ogo taiki..
Ogo taiki allows..

+
1. full vpr interactivity
2. planetary view
3. air heat refraction
4. volumetrics on Lightwaves particle/point cluster system
5. compatible with Lightwaves procedural textures for cloud density and land procedurals.

6. procedural infinite land surface mode.
7. Pricing...much cheaper than Ozone.

None of the above is available in Ozone.

Heres som cons of choosing ogo taiki..

-
1. only 32 bit

2. no further updates in years has been made and current status is unknown, it might be that it is discontinued.

3. To many quality settings to keep track on.

4. UI is to messy, and you can get lost not knowing which layer you are working on.

5. Slow to render ..needs a huge boost in speed, especially with fog layers and godrays.

6. Doesnīt have the same ease to set up sky and not the same accurate realism in sky properties as ozone have, you can get close, but not quite the same.

Note...the images showcased on ashais site, they arenīt produced with the best quality settings, and thus they can look better..but at render time cost.
Many of the images shown doesnīt have a very good quality and a little poor selected ligth & sky settings.

If ogo were developed more with better algorithms for sky properties and better quality settings and speed..things would look great I believe.

Planetary view
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~pq1a-ogs/taiki4.jpg
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~pq1a-ogs/taiki2.mpg

Air heat refraction shimmer..
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~pq1a-ogs/air0.jpg
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~pq1a-ogs/air.mpg

Full index with more images...
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~pq1a-ogs/taiki_e.html

3dworks
08-23-2012, 07:54 AM
and don't forget: ogo taiki is windows only, no choice for me.

so for mac users at least, vue remains the only option i know of, if you need pretty animated skies and flythroughs.

but if working with stills, dp sunsky is a very nice combo (environment + sun light) to play with. add a layer of clouds (use PS screen blending on a gradient mask) in the environment maps and you have many options open. what is definitely missing is a native volumetric sky and a revamped, faster and more precise fog option. the current volumetric fog is very hard to handle and the VPR preview is wrong as well. it would be good to see some improvements on skytracer as well imo - basically it's a nice thing on which NT could build up something.

but back to ozone: at least i got a reply from the forum moderator. the issues have been reported to the developer... so let's knock on wood.

prometheus
08-23-2012, 08:27 AM
and don't forget: ogo taiki is windows only, no choice for me.

so for mac users at least, vue remains the only option i know of, if you need pretty animated skies and flythroughs.

but if working with stills, dp sunsky is a very nice combo (environment + sun light) to play with. add a layer of clouds (use PS screen blending on a gradient mask) in the environment maps and you have many options open. what is definitely missing is a native volumetric sky and a revamped, faster and more precise fog option. the current volumetric fog is very hard to handle and the VPR preview is wrong as well. it would be good to see some improvements on skytracer as well imo - basically it's a nice thing on which NT could build up something.

but back to ozone: at least i got a reply from the forum moderator. the issues have been reported to the developer... so let's knock on wood.

Ahh..I absolutly agree with you, on all that, I wouldnīt go and by me a mac with the purpose to do 3d works though, even though I like the mac UI and all, but the very fact that so little 3d stuff and plugs is supported, That has kept me away from buying any Mac.

yes dpont could be nice, but you donīt have any clouds and it will be a compositing effort to get light to match skies etc and will only be an aproximation, not the accurate lighting conditions from a true volumetric environment.

skytracer...well if it were truly volumetric..it ainīt, and if one could use textured shadows without the extremly long render hit that takes, cause textured shadows is really needed if you want any good looking clouds with depth.

Why o why can we not have a complete solution that works as it should, a mix of ozone and ogo taiki, working on all platforms and 64 bit ..something like that.

I got an email from webmaster at e-on...got a new password from him since the auto resend password didnīt work, but I couldnīt log in anyway..got some errors of password and account not matching, the webmaster mentioned that they have issues with hotmail accounts...still.

I would like to give my suggestions on improvement of Ozone to them if I could, but right now I cant acess their forums unfortunatly.

Michael

zapper1998
08-23-2012, 08:59 AM
Yep Ozone does work Like, [quoted] "everything acts like molasses."

yep yep...

its to bad..

I was thinking of upgrading, I have Ozone 3, and they said no upgrade from Ozone 3..

So I said F I N E.... whatever ... Don't Need Anyways, was a W A S T E of money in the first place..


:)

prometheus
08-23-2012, 10:17 AM
Reading the issues from 3dworks on the e-on forum, regarding lightwave UI becoming unacessable, the same occoured for me too, and later on I couldnīt even start Lightwave at all, had to reinstall lightwave, canīt tell that it was e-on ozone 6 causing this,but very suspicious since it was happening after testing ozone 6, and I havenīt encountered any thing like that since then.

Same goes for extreme slowness when rotating camera while using vpr and ozone activated, I donīt think that was the case with ozone 5 though.

All this on windows 64 bit.

Michael

HenrikSkoglund
08-24-2012, 12:20 AM
Maybe it's just the PLE that is beeing slow and buggy, I guess they must update the software once in a while and they might just not care so much about the PLE.

Wishful thinking maybe?...

prometheus
08-24-2012, 01:05 AM
Maybe it's just the PLE that is beeing slow and buggy, I guess they must update the software once in a while and they might just not care so much about the PLE.

Wishful thinking maybe?...

:D probably, I dont care so much about the ozone 6 PLE either:D,
I think I will await for the next version, maybe I can get some acess to the forums someday, but currently I cant since they screwed up hotmail adresses, only then can I bring forward my point of views and issues.
Maybe some whining in the cornucopia forums, but that will be more unsure if e-on reads up on.

But for now I guess Iīm better of to leave it alone and work on something else.

They should have a fix for both ozone versions ready at the same time, and publish fix notes next to PLE and original downloads so people know, otherwise they are killing their own product.

Michael