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RTSchramm
03-16-2012, 11:37 PM
I could have posted this question on the Maxon forum, but from my experience, LW users seem to be the most honest; I also prefer the opinions of who have used both LW and Cinema 4d.

I already have Lightwave 11 and Modo 601 and they compliment each other really well. Unfortunately both programs do not cover all the things that I'd like to do yet and I haven't the time to wait for future upgrades to resolve these issues.

So I received an email that Maxon has a sidegrade purchase of 30% off which is very competive. The Cinema 4d demo imports LW objects flawlessly and supports more animation features than both LW 11 and Modo 601.

My question is if I have the money, is Cinema 4d worth $2,586.50? This includes both the Studio and Bodypaint packages. Maya and 3dMax are out of my price range.

Thanks,

Rich

Surrealist.
03-17-2012, 12:10 AM
It kind of depends what you are looking for.

The side grade comparison for AutoDesk is comparative. Softimage after a competitive upgrade from LightWave would put you in around 2 gs USD.

I have not used Cinema 4D. So I can not comment on that. But if you are looking to spend the money in my opinion you can not go wrong with SI. With the exception of sculpting and painting - which you have covered in Modo - it would give you basically everything you'll likely need - ever. You could specialize more on smoke and fire I suppose.

But look at the line up for Softimage:

1) Long standing track record as one of the most comprehensive animation packages around.

2) ICE particles, dynamics and cloth. Including Lagoa Physics, Syflex.

3) An overall very robust dynamics solution with lots of options that all integrate well into the animation tools.

4) Non-linear animation editing as well as tools to handle and re-target mocap. (maybe not as nice as Motion Builder, but it is there and you can do it.)

5) Face Robot. Not just a lip sync tool, but probably the best facial animation tool around weather you do it with key framing or mocap. And weather or not yo use the auto sync feature. It just simply has facial animation totally taped.

6) Rigging tools that will not likely ever leave you needing anything else for any type of rig you will need.

7) ICE modeling tools. Probably the most underrated feature. This opens up the possibilities to do almost unlimited effects with geometry.

8) A host for alternate render packages such as Vray, 3Delight, etc.

9) Includes Point Oven to import/export animated mesh data to/from Lightwave.

I don't think there is any package on the market that can touch Softimage feature for feature in my humble little opinion.

So staying on track with your topic. I did download the trial of cinema 4D and I really was not that impressed. I know it is a powerful package for those who know how to use it, but I found it less than attractive in the basics after poking around a bit. Just an opinion.

geo_n
03-17-2012, 12:31 AM
The real question is, are you willing to spend hundreds of hours relearning another software to be at the same level you are with lw/modo.
If you're not hitting the wall yet with lw/modo it might not make a difference what software you move on to.
$2,586.50 is not bad if you're earning from 3d, motiongraphics that's probably two minor animation jobs to get investment back and with c4d being standard for mograph its easy to recoup for experienced c4d users.
However the time learning software is always long.

archijam
03-17-2012, 01:24 AM
In the past C4D always hit you hard for upgrade costs .. this is one reason I realized it wasn't an option for me. Any news on this front ?

raw-m
03-17-2012, 03:03 AM
Hi Rich, I'm in a similar boat to yourself. I've always been a LW user and have invested a lot of time over the years learning it. I'm a freelancing mographer and seeing most jobs asking for C4D experience. It's not the price that is putting me off it's the time getting up to speed with it I'm most concerned about. LW is really missing is the simple deformer stuff that C4D does so well so I should just take the plunge and get on with it. I've been hoping something similar would be introduced to LW the past couple of upgrades (CORE looked promising at one point!) but I'm going to have to take action soon!

RTSchramm
03-17-2012, 03:09 AM
"The side grade comparison for AutoDesk is comparative. Softimage after a competitive upgrade from LightWave would put you in around 2 gs USD."

Can you tell me where the link to the competitive upgrade is for Softimage? I saw the 0% financing for Autodesk products but no competitive upgrade.

By the way, I'm a hobbyist, but I am currently working on creating my own animation short. I have the script and story boards done and several of the characters are modeled, but I find LW and Modo's CA more difficult to use then Cinema 4D (Demo) that is why I was interested in this package.

Rich

realgray
03-17-2012, 03:13 AM
What Softimage sidegrade? I have looked all over and seen nothing. Would really like to know, thanks.

realgray
03-17-2012, 03:15 AM
"The side grade comparison for AutoDesk is comparative. Softimage after a competitive upgrade from LightWave would put you in around 2 gs USD."

Can you tell me where the link to the competitive upgrade is for Softimage? I saw the 0% financing for Autodesk products but no competitive upgrade.

By the way, I'm a hobbyist, but I am currently working on creating my own animation short. I have the script and story boards done and several of the characters are modeled, but I find LW and Modo's CA more difficult to use then Cinema 4D (Demo) that is why I was interested in this package.

Rich

I don't think you can go wrong with XSI-(sorry I prefer to say that)

Sarford
03-17-2012, 03:27 AM
I don't think it's gonna take you long to learn SI. It is a very structured program with a logical workflow.
One feature which I think is indispensable is the explorer, there you can find anything of your scene back, dynamics, deformers, constrains, materials, kinematics etc etc, really helpful to see what is going on in your scene, unlike LW where you have to hunt down numerous panels to get that same information.
Don't forget the powerful pass system, the different render engines available which includes Octane for which they are building a native plugin now.
You already know a 3D package, learning a new one shouldn't be hard, Digital Tutors has some really nice tutorials to get you on the way.


By the way, here are more than 1000 free XSI video's all at one place.

http://www.youtube.com/user/AceMastermind1?feature=watch

realgray
03-17-2012, 03:44 AM
Any word on Vray for Softimage? They've been developing that for awhile.

Sarford
03-17-2012, 03:47 AM
It is still in Beta, we have a beta license at work but I've never used it cause we mainly use Arnold.

Surrealist.
03-17-2012, 03:48 AM
Well I heard about this side grade program from a local reseller who was referred to me by Autodesk. I have never seen it advertised per se, but clearly they have it. One thing you can do is either contact them directly regarding the upgrade - and they'll likely just refer you to a local dealer. Normally I just buy stuff online but this guy was real helpful. They are also having a sale on the upgrade to the Entertainment Suites. If you are planning to do that it is better to first by SI and then upgrade to the Suite. It is much cheaper.

If anyone is having trouble with finding this, contact me directly and I will hook you up with my rep. Sure he won't mind the business. :)

@RTSchramm:

I fully understand your situation. What has me is the price for C4D. For less money you get a truly world class animation and special effects system. It is really kind of a no-brainer when you really have a look at what SI can do.

If only animation is what you are looking for and a slightly less learning curve there is always Messiah if you don't already have it, or you can buy it for 200 bucks now. It is a bit of a pain to learn, but once you there is quite a pay off. I have been through it and so has Jason Westmas. Two guys here with a fairly strong knowledge of it. Others far more I am sure. But at least we come from the perspective of having had to slog through it newly and learn.

Now for me... I like keeping everything in one package. I know some people like to specialize. But I really kinda don't like that. So I am not sure if I'll be animating in Messiah after all, we'll see. But it is powerful and very fast in the view port.

The thing that is getting me is the price for C4D. Just can justify it. Well... I guess you wanted a honest response. You got it. :D

Surrealist.
03-17-2012, 03:49 AM
It is still in Beta, we have a beta license at work but I've never used it cause we mainly use Arnold.

It has been released just recently. :)

http://chaosgroup.com/en/2/vray_softimage.html

Surrealist.
03-17-2012, 03:57 AM
A note on the competitive upgrade. It may be one of those things they don't really advertise but is in the system and dealers know about. Not sure. I did not ask. So don't be discouraged if you don't find it. Worse case you can just contact my rep and he'll handle it for you.