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View Full Version : Octane render bought by Otoy...AD cloud computing



geo_n
03-13-2012, 05:43 AM
Might be old news.
http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/02/otoy-buys-refractive-software-and-announces-cloud-based-digital-animation-technology-exclusive/
http://www.refractivesoftware.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15367
Octane on cloud computing rendering for AD. Giant getting bigger. A vray killer :D

erikals
03-13-2012, 06:49 AM
Wow, so i now own an AutoDesk product... didn't see that one coming (though i should have...)

"if you can't beat them, they'll beat you"

rcallicotte
03-13-2012, 07:18 AM
Read further down, though - "They [AutoDesk] cannot interfere with it either as they do not have any control whatsoever."

It's also interesting to see what he mentions about the Cycles engine. What a crock of crap, if that is what happened.

Tartiflette
03-13-2012, 04:23 PM
It's also interesting to see what he mentions about the Cycles engine. What a crock of crap, if that is what happened.
I have no internal clue of what really happened with Brecht and Cycles, but given the past of Radiance i wouldn't allow too much credit to this thing, especially since Refractive Software hasn't brought Brecht before any court. (at least none that i'm aware of...)
So take that with a (big) pinch of salt...


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette :)

rcallicotte
03-13-2012, 04:24 PM
Laurent, thanks. Good advice.

geo_n
03-13-2012, 11:48 PM
"Selling RS has secured my personal future, I never need to worry about money again, and while you may be very envious of that, think of all the free time i will have to develop new projects in the future, and I have a lot of good ideas."

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=7268585&postcount=17

Can't help think what this means for anyone willing to buy into these kinds of alpha beta software. Every new idea developed super long then sold. :D
No more for me. Bitten many times with beta software. Only want proven and tested, with roadmap, good cs now.
Glad I bought it at a cheap price and never really relied on it for projects. No time wasted, no past projects to worry about.

zarti
03-14-2012, 06:43 AM
that ' s called : The Circle Of Life .


;)

Nicolas Jordan
03-14-2012, 06:45 AM
So they thought Octane was actually good enough to buy did they? :stumped: At least the name makes the program sound cool and powerful. Octane...makes you think of a fast race car or something doesn't it? :jester:

Surrealist.
03-14-2012, 04:33 PM
Regarding the Cycles thing. Was there some confusion on that? It was something that BF was working on not this company. Brecht was working on Octane for a while but he came back to BF to develop Cycles.

That's my memory of it. There are some articles around also at the times these things where happening.

http://www.blendernation.com/2010/08/06/brecht-joins-octane-team/


Hereís a few more details on the changes. My contract at the Blender Institute was until the end of this month, and Iíve been contemplating a bit what I should do in the future. Itís been great working here, and Iím very grateful to Ton, he gave me a lot of freedom to work on what I wanted to work on, and Iíve learned a lot from him in the past years. I feel like after 3 years I need a different challenge, just doing something a bit different, so I started looking around and found a job at Refractive Software, with the advantage that itís closer to where I live.

What is meant by "Cycles now in Blender" just means that when they "finish" a tool that is developed on a separate branch they merge it with the release branch often referred to as Trunk"

Was that the source of confusion?

geo_n
03-14-2012, 08:51 PM
The issue is that radiance said brecht worked for two weeks with them then completely disappeared. A few months later cycles was announced for blender. Basically he said the source code was stolen. The timing of events is suspect.
Why there are no lawsuits from each other seems weird. They could sue each other for damages and the other for theft.

Surrealist.
03-14-2012, 09:41 PM
Ah OK I see. I did not read that in the link. Was this someplace else?

Blender is chalk full of borrowings from other things. I don't really think there is too much original in it except for the modeling shortcuts which I still find to be the best and fastest around. Well at least if that was not lifted from something I am not aware of.

I don't know how true that story is about Brecht. But I do know that it is clear that Blender needs a render solution for the live action film they are now making. I was a little confused however when he turned up with the Easter Egg Surprise. I thought his departure from BF was final.

It is a little strange sounding I have to admit. Now that I look at the timeline. But where is the actual evidence? I mean is he reported as having said this online? Or in an interview or something about Brecht?

geo_n
03-14-2012, 10:31 PM
Read bullet 8 of cgtalk thread above.
"since brecht joined our company, only to vanish 2 weeks later with a copy of our engine code and 4 months later announce 'cycles', which is now integrated into blender"

Dexter2999
03-14-2012, 11:28 PM
Read bullet 8 of cgtalk thread above.
"since brecht joined our company, only to vanish 2 weeks later with a copy of our engine code and 4 months later announce 'cycles', which is now integrated into blender"

Well, at this point that is supposition.

The finished code for Cycles will be OpenSource so I am sure the Octane developers can comb through it and if they find sufficient material that points at something lifted from their work they can (and most certainly will) pursue legal action.

geo_n
03-15-2012, 01:28 AM
Could the same math that made octane renderer be reversed engineered with different code. Anyway the two renderers are far from being finished and who knows how long octane will be dragged out only to be like lightscape.

Surrealist.
03-15-2012, 02:05 AM
Oh... wow... I missed that entirely.

Very interesting. Thanks for the quote.

That does sound a tad suspicious. I remember the threads sending him off with such good wishes and so on.

But I have a gut feeling that it was not at all planned. It could simply be that Ton decided to make him an offer he could not refuse, once Ton had solidified his plans for the next film. And I am likely to believe that is more the case than anything nefarious.

As far as claiming he left with the code. I mean, well he had it on his computer and that does not mean anything if there is no evidence it was lifted. I just kind of get from that statement that the guy was bitter that Brecht simply left after such a short time. Sounds more like a he said she said, peoples court kind of thing....

I think Brecht was working on the rendering engine for Sintel if I remember correctly. He is a talented guy and I really don't buy the idea that he was sent on a mission to steal the code, like some mission impossible plot. Or even took the opportunity once there and prodded by Ton.

I think it is more likely just the way things worked out. I just think he was faithful to the Blender Foundation and he got an offer to do basically what he would have been doing and took it, so he could help Ton realize the vision for his next film. That is the way I see it.

The other side of it would have to be backed up by some fairly strong evidence which is readily available in the code you can download and look at, if it is there, it would be easy to make a case. But that said even. Coding for Blender is not that same as other apps.

Tartiflette
03-15-2012, 07:29 AM
Well, to put it shortly, Cycles and Octane are so different by nature (except perhaps the fact they are doing GPU rendering, but even on that Cycles does it with both OpenCL -incomplete for now but still- and CUDA when Octane runs only with CUDA...) that it's just plain ridiculous to state the code was stolen or something like this.
Add to that the fact that Radiance's first physical render engine was based on the open-source PBRT book and that -probably- Octane benefits from this experience, it's more than likely you'll find some identical principles in Cycles. But as said before it's based on white papers and open-source research.

Anyway, Radiance has a long history with this kind of false statement, so that's not a big news in itself, and i'm sure he won't sue anyone as there's nothing he could use to sue Brecht and the blender Foundation.
On the same idea, i don't think Brecht has any kind of wish to talk about this, he probably has more important things to do. :)


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette :)

Surrealist.
03-16-2012, 09:03 PM
It would be rather silly for the Blender Foundation to make such a move. That would be out of character. As I understand it, the main problem in finding people to code for Blender is not money, but rather finding talented coders who also understand how Blender's coding architecture works. Not that it can't be learned. But it takes time. So I look at it like. We'll we need a new render engine, who do we call who knows how to code, is familiar with the workflow and who is talented enough to give it a go? It is a no brainier at that point. It was likely either dissatisfaction with is new job or a better offer from BF or both.

silviotoledo
03-17-2012, 06:18 PM
Autodesk wants to domain the 3D world :).

If they're financing the company of course they want the renderer too.

No Lightwave Plugin :( Just Maya, Max and Xsi so sad.

Octane seems to be the best of the kind.

ken_g9
03-18-2012, 10:56 AM
"Selling RS has secured my personal future, I never need to worry about money again, and while you may be very envious of that, think of all the free time i will have to develop new projects in the future, and I have a lot of good ideas."

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=7268585&postcount=17

Can't help think what this means for anyone willing to buy into these kinds of alpha beta software. Every new idea developed super long then sold. :D
No more for me. Bitten many times with beta software. Only want proven and tested, with roadmap, good cs now.
Glad I bought it at a cheap price and never really relied on it for projects. No time wasted, no past projects to worry about.

This is currently the trend especially with tech startups. Some startup companies have very good ideas but their ultimate goal is to be bought/absorbed by bigger companies.

Rayek
03-19-2012, 10:37 PM
I bought a license of Octane at the very beginning. When an online connection was required to run Octane, I stopped using it. At first I liked supporting a small startup, but the way business was conducted at some point I decided Octane was yet another dead in the water product.

As far as accusations go, Radiance (or Terrence Vergauwen) has had his fair share of falling outs with several people. Check Indigo and Luxrender. Seems to me, after reading up on his history, he may be a very skilled developer with a lack of interpersonal skills - or at least towards people/groups he feels have done him wrong in some way.

Then again, I do not know the people involved, so I could be completely misinterpreting the situation. One thing is clear to me though: with Cycles he probably lost a sizable chunk of his potential market (Blender having an old render engine before, and now getting a modern one), and started to focus on other apps like Max. However, the competition for external render software is quite fierce, and I sort of read into his words that he expected Octane to fail in a year or so.

And looking at his past actions it is no surprise he 'bailed out' while he could. I wish him luck with his future endeavors.

erikals
03-20-2012, 12:51 AM
Lightscape all over again...