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prometheus
03-11-2012, 09:04 AM
Think this thread might be helpful if these solutions are discussed here.
I will try and gather links from previous threads not directly aimed for this, but has been transformed in to this very topic of creating clouds.

Hereīs some main solutions for Volumetric clouds..if You know any more "volumetric" solutions..feel free to post that.

1. Hypervoxels...
2. TurbulenceFD fluid cloud models
3. Volumedic
4. Ogo Taiki
5. Ozone

I will try and fill in some pro and cons and techniques I know of with Hypervoxels, turbulenceFD,Ogo Taiki and Ozone, but I will start with following up this with links and descriptions on what the solutions does.
Where I canīt I will give reference to Elmer Moezer,erikals etc
and some linking to showcased samples from them.

hereīs TurbulenceFD fluid cloud samples from me..
http://vimeo.com/38295925
http://vimeo.com/38310716

Ozone 5 tests from me...
http://vimeo.com/21242230
http://vimeo.com/21359403
http://vimeo.com/20991865

Hypervoxels cloud stills from me check whole thread...
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=124411

Oliverīs fluid cloudīs tests with turbulenceFD...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlnAVpcEXQ4

Erikalīs OgoTaiki samples...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asiypf9eIp4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg8w8AVzsO8

OgoTaiki samples from the OgoTaiki site..
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~pq1a-ogs/taiki1.mpg
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~pq1a-ogs/taiki2.mpg

Dave Jerrardīs Hv clouds for the History channel-Dogfights..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NIOIPzukq4&feature=g-all-u&context=G2b83dafFAAAAAAAAAAA

Volumedic samples of clouds..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7oyHuX4A38&feature=channel

If someone could wake that OgoTaiki guy up, I would really see that one as the primer volumetric render engine if it was boosted up in speed and UI performance, a bonus if it could work seamlessly with Turbulence and Volumedic.
Speed,UI, and Introduce a more realistic Air model would be needed thou in Ogo taiki.

Hope this is somewhat useful information, I will link to all solutions and try and give some techniqueīs hint in further posts.
I wonder if I missed something??

Michael

Tartiflette
03-11-2012, 09:26 AM
If it was only for clouds, i would say, without a doubt Ozone, as it's the most realistic render of all presented here, which is no real surprise as E-on software is specialized in 3D nature rendering.

As a more "general" solution it's really hard to tell, as i think it really comes down to what you are looking for the most.

Anyway, cool tests there and very interesting informations in one place.


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette :)

prometheus
03-11-2012, 10:47 AM
If it was only for clouds, i would say, without a doubt Ozone, as it's the most realistic render of all presented here, which is no real surprise as E-on software is specialized in 3D nature rendering.

As a more "general" solution it's really hard to tell, as i think it really comes down to what you are looking for the most.

Anyway, cool tests there and very interesting informations in one place.


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette :)

Well..ozone, realistic results when you find the best atmosphere and cloud layers,If you have vue you could start saving atmospheres and cloud layers there first, but I have some dislikes about it, mainly you can not tweak it at the same time and have vpr open, wich you can do with all other solutions.
ozone provides an extremly small previewer wich canīt be scaled, as in vue.

And there are missing tweak paremeters for cloud detail tab and you can not acess cloud density functions, those are available in vue only and not
in ozone.

Besides that you have an extremly high render time for spectral 2/3 cloud layers ..the normal spectral cloud layers are decent thou in render times.

If you would like to use hypervoxels particle trails you need to activate ray marcher and that would increase rendertimes Hugely..

I would prefer Ogo taiki since itīs tweakable with VPR and you can control cloud layers just as you want with density and different procedurals.
And you could also use particles or point cluster to add ogotaiki volumetrics on, you are missing something like that with ozone.

As I know of You can not create an aerial earth in ozone as you can in vue, ogo taiki does that well thou if you look at the rocket sample on the links.
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~pq1a-ogs/taiki2.mpg

Just a matter of getting someone to continue that OgoTaiki development or extract the core from it and improve.

Michael

Greenlaw
03-11-2012, 11:49 AM
Good list. :thumbsup:

Technically you could throw in Vue xStream for LW too. Ozone mostly covers a lot of the atmospheric fx from Vue but I'm not sure that includes Vue's independent cloud objects.

(I haven't used Ozone so if this info is off, please correct.)

G.

Greenlaw
03-11-2012, 11:50 AM
Shouldn't the LW native Skytracer go on the list?

silviotoledo
03-11-2012, 11:51 AM
http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/f/tg2/file_1403189.jpg.html


http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/f/tg2/cumulonimbus_frank_basinski.jpg.html



Terragen 2 does the most realistic clouds I've seem, but rendering times is too looooooog.

As second alternative Ozone is the best one.

Now Modo 601 also does, but it's also too slow.

prometheus
03-11-2012, 12:01 PM
Good list. :thumbsup:

Technically you could throw in Vue xStream for LW too. Ozone mostly covers a lot of the atmospheric fx from Vue but I'm not sure that includes Vue's independent cloud objects.

(I haven't used Ozone so if this info is off, please correct.)

G.

yes vue xstream might fit in there, thou I havenīt tested that only ozone, do not know how xstream within lightwave would work to fly through with and have lightwave objects fly through and get clouds to obscure objects, thatīs for vue xstream, but ozone really misses some things like the cloud detail tab and editing the cloud density functions.

realistic speaking, the vue ozone atmosphere and cloud shading is absolutly fantastic thou, and I would go wow if Turbulence fluids got in to vue, since clouds are actually condensed water smoke rising up, the generated cloud pillars would be much more realistic if it were true similated fluid smoke toghether with the lighting,shading and spectral atmosphere.

heres another still image sample, Im very new to testing this with turbulence so give me a couple of weeks of late nights and testing then within a few months I think it will be pretty darn good, but it also needs the atmopshere ligthing with fog, haze etc wich vue does so good.

Michael

prometheus
03-11-2012, 12:05 PM
http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/f/tg2/file_1403189.jpg.html


http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/f/tg2/cumulonimbus_frank_basinski.jpg.html



Terragen 2 does the most realistic clouds I've seem, but rendering times is too looooooog.

As second alternative Ozone is the best one.

Now Modo 601 also does, but it's also too slow.

yes terragen and basinsky has the bost beautiful cloud renders around, but as you mentioned and what i discovered trying it out...puh..goodnight how slow it is...vue is way faster.

Modo samples ..well I do not fancy those cloud samples that much, thou I started a thread about the main technique has improved over hv, that you can apply to geometry directly not only vertices.

Turbulence fluids renders faster than what I can spit out with HVīs

Michael

prometheus
03-11-2012, 12:07 PM
Shouldn't the LW native Skytracer go on the list?

Not really truly volumetric, and quite slow when you add the thicker cloud layers, would even say ogo taiki is faster.

Dump skytracer, use ogo taiki or ozone.

Michael

Greenlaw
03-11-2012, 12:13 PM
We use Vue xStream at work; basically, it places a Vue scene right inside Lightwave and uses its own renderer for the 'Vue native' elements but allows Lightwave native elements to interact with it. (You can even use LW AA for everything, if you choose.) Technically, the Lightwave native objects don't directly interact with Vue elements (except where light and shadow is concerned,) but you can import Lightwave objects with .mdd applied into Vue and get the physical interaction that way. But even without this, I believe you can do a Vue cloud fly-through directly in LW.

FYI, if you composite, you can do all the above using Vue Infinite too (it's what I use at home.) It does take more work though and it's obviously not all happening directly inside Lightwave, so this probably doesn't qualify for the list.

prometheus
03-11-2012, 12:17 PM
We use Vue xStream at work; basically, it places a Vue scene right inside Lightwave and uses its own renderer for the 'Vue native' elements but allows Lightwave native elements to interact with it. (You can even use LW AA for everything, if you choose.) Technically, the Lightwave native objects don't directly interact with Vue elements (except where light and shadow is concerned,) but you can import Lightwave objects with .mdd applied into view and get the physical interaction that way. But even without this, I believe you can do a cloud fly-through directly in LW.

FYI, if you composite, you can do all the above using Vue Infinite too (it's what I use at home.) It does take more work though and it's obviously not all happening directly inside Lightwave, so this probably doesn't qualify for the list.

Getting it to work inside Lightwave is what we all should want and aim for, it is just to much hazzle using these two software that doesnīt blend seamlessly,once each software is updated..you can rest asure something will be broken, that and the fact you have to buy vue xstream.
I was hoping for ozone and the many update releases, but they have failed to impress me, and the updates been minor...a fix of the missing cloud detail tab and make it possible to edit cloud functions, and make a scalable previewer or get it to work with vpr when tweaking..then almost there.

Michael

Greenlaw
03-11-2012, 12:19 PM
Not really truly volumetric, and quite slow when you add the thicker cloud layers, would even say ogo taiki is faster.l
Yes, I know. Just completing the list. Believe it or not, there was a period when SkyTracer (now SkyTracer 2) was exciting stuff and the only game in town. but that was a long, long time ago. :)

Greenlaw
03-11-2012, 12:31 PM
Getting it to work inside Lightwave is what we all should want and aim for, it is just to much hazzle using these two software that doesnīt blend seamlessly,once each software is updated..you can rest asure something will be broken, that and the fact you have to buy vue xstream.
Actually, we haven't had anything of note break between LW and Vue after Vue xStream 8 was released (or in my personal situation Vue Infinite 8), and we're up to version 10 now.

To be honest, there really isn't a big difference between xStream and Infinite, other than you may need to composite to get the same results. The 'hassle' of compositing is the price of using the cheaper version of Vue (Infinite), but the final renders between the two packages still blend seamlessly. This might sound odd but there are many instances where we basically use xStream this way at work too, mostly because we composite everything anyway.

G.

silviotoledo
03-15-2012, 10:23 AM
Turbulence Clouds looks cool and quick but it seems there's a little problem with the alpha channels

prometheus
03-15-2012, 11:52 AM
Turbulence Clouds looks cool and quick but it seems there's a little problem with the alpha channels

whatīs the issue you have with alpha? unfortunatly I havenīt really checked the alpha channels properly, I am dog tired today so that have to wait until weekend.

Michael

tcoursey
03-15-2012, 12:09 PM
Just a matter of getting someone to continue that OgoTaiki development or extract the core from it and improve.
Michael

That would be great! I just downloaded Ozone 6 PLE and began playing with it once again. We had bought I think version 2.5 a while back. Played with 5 recently, now 6 is out.

It's good, but when you try and actually use it in a scene (meaning more than just clouds by themselves) the look is always hard to get, the render times are quite slow in general, but the volumetric clouds are second to none really.

I can fake everything else, fog, haze, sunspot etc with skytracer/sunsky and LW native stuff, but clouds are always the one thing that I have not perfected!

Nice thread, I'll keep in touch with it....

prometheus
03-15-2012, 01:14 PM
That would be great! I just downloaded Ozone 6 PLE and began playing with it once again. We had bought I think version 2.5 a while back. Played with 5 recently, now 6 is out.

It's good, but when you try and actually use it in a scene (meaning more than just clouds by themselves) the look is always hard to get, the render times are quite slow in general, but the volumetric clouds are second to none really.

I can fake everything else, fog, haze, sunspot etc with skytracer/sunsky and LW native stuff, but clouds are always the one thing that I have not perfected!

Nice thread, I'll keep in touch with it....

faking fog,haze,etc isnīt the way to do it, it almost always look..fake.
thatīs where ozoneīs nice spectral atmosphere would be fine, if it were tweakable inside of VPR, now since I complained:) or someone else, they now have introduced a previewer that you appearently can scale a bit, so yay..a small step in improvement there at least, still waiting for it to work with vpr thou while tweaking atmopshere and clouds.

I bet it still misses the cloud detail tab, that would be next to fix, after that, introduce acess to cloud functions.

I think you also should be able to move cloud layers as object too now, as in vue.

If you use the first standard cloud layer, it will render much faster than the other more advanced cloud layers.

Michael

Greenlaw
03-15-2012, 03:08 PM
...there's a little problem with the alpha channels

whatīs the issue you have with alpha?

I was wondering too. FWIW, we never ran into an issue with the Turbulence alpha channels in the past, but I haven't checked recently with 1.0.

FYI, we always comp additively if that makes any difference.

prometheus
03-18-2012, 10:18 AM
hereīs my first impressions on ozone 6

not much of improvements..a single feature of it now being able to scale the preview window thou, thread is here...

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=126741

Michael

short223
03-22-2012, 07:24 AM
Has it been mentioned that Taiki doesn't work on x64 bit systems? If it does, I am unable to get the plug to work for me :(

prometheus
03-22-2012, 07:53 AM
Has it been mentioned that Taiki doesn't work on x64 bit systems? If it does, I am unable to get the plug to work for me :(

Unfortunatly I think thatīs the case, we would probably all like to have a new ogo taiki working in 64 bit and with a continued development, but I donīt see any hintīs of that happening..ever.

Michael

Hieron
03-22-2012, 10:22 AM
No one mentioned this technique?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBovH7_um_s

It's volumetric in a sense, works wel, renders fast and allows quick previews.
Sure it was used there in a NPR kind of way, but I'm quite sure it can be pushed and be used PR too..

Looked alot cooler than most dedicated tools imho.

(can be done in LW too, Max used there)

AbstractTech3D
03-22-2012, 10:25 AM
No one mentioned this technique?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBovH7_um_s

It's volumetric in a sense, works wel, renders fast and allows quick previews.
Sure it was used there in a NPR kind of way, but I'm quite sure it can be pushed and be used PR too..

Looked alot cooler than most dedicated tools imho.

(can be done in LW too, Max used there)

Yes, I really like this.
Unfortunately I haven't completely understood the technique, and am really hoping for a translation into LW terms and processes…
Anyone?

Elmar Moelzer
03-22-2012, 10:59 AM
Here is the technique from this tutorial here:
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/content.php?154-3D-Volumetric-Planetart-Clouds

applied to VoluMedic:
I just did these two renderings as a quick test with slightly different settings. Yes I am aware that it could look a bit better, but I dont have the time to work this out perfecty.
I think one could combine it with a procedural texture and it would look much better even.

Thomas Leitner
03-22-2012, 12:28 PM
Yes, I really like this.
Unfortunately I haven't completely understood the technique, and am really hoping for a translation into LW terms and processes…
Anyone?

Hi,
look here:
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=124026&highlight=vertex+map+texture&page=4

ciao
Thomas

prometheus
03-22-2012, 12:30 PM
Yes, I really like this.
Unfortunately I haven't completely understood the technique, and am really hoping for a translation into LW terms and processes…
Anyone?

Yeah that looks good..

Go ahead..take a stab at it.
I think there was another thread here in the forums where someone tried this out.

1. bake lights in to vertex maps?
2.convert and apply to hvīs sprites.
What else should be done?

Michael

prometheus
03-22-2012, 12:35 PM
Hi,
look here:
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=124026&highlight=vertex+map+texture&page=4

ciao
Thomas

Ahh..yes that was oliver doing that.

AbstractTech3D
03-22-2012, 04:16 PM
cheers guys!

prometheus
03-25-2012, 08:09 AM
crossposting a little here, same info as in the ozone thread, but I want it to be here to so you guys donīt miss it since itīs related..

hereīs the best improvement for ozone6, the preview window..
as you can see on the left preview, that is what we had as a preview window to tweak in, pretty lousy right?

The right preview is how much we now can scale up the preview window, wich is much better in order to see cloud detail.

Still waiting for the advanced cloud material editor, as it is now, you can not rotate, stretch, move the clouds in to position, and you can not acess density curves,density productionfunctions, and cloud layer detail tab where you set scaling,roughness,variations,uniformity..this is a big minus.

Also in the lack of advanced cloud material editor, You do not have access to change light model either and you can not therefore correct atmosphere wich doesnīt have cast shadows activated.

The effects tab with lensflares and starfilter doesnīt seem to work in Lightwave 11, so to get a sun with proper star filter is not possible it seems, not quite sure thou.

Otherwise, I love the atmopherics and the results from the sky,fog,haze anisotrophy etc and godrays, just missing better cloud functions handling.

the preview improvements helps a lot now, even thou I would also see it work directly in VPR ..something for Newtek team to call up the Eonsoftware team and take a look in to is my suggestion.

Metaclouds on sphereīs arenīt possible and getting high cumulus individual
pillars arenīt really possible within ozone.

Would be amazing if such thing could be applied on geometry or point,particle clusters, at least you could use particles for The universal atmospheric plugin OgoTaiki, something like that with ozone would be great.

They should implement preview animation too within ozone, so when you set your cloud velocity you can play that back pretty fast.

Im putting up some test of ozone on my vimeo page, more to come I think.

3dworks
03-25-2012, 10:07 AM
is ozone 6 any faster at rendering, did you check it?

is VPR deactivated when using the ozone interface and changing settings? it is that way with xstream: as soon as you open the vue interface, VPR stops. when you close the dialog, VPR renders the result of the new settings. i wonder if this could be fixed, as this is not really the 'interactive' kind of preview...

prometheus
03-25-2012, 10:24 AM
is ozone 6 any faster at rendering, did you check it?

is VPR deactivated when using the ozone interface and changing settings? it is that way with xstream: as soon as you open the vue interface, VPR stops. when you close the dialog, VPR renders the result of the new settings. i wonder if this could be fixed, as this is not really the 'interactive' kind of preview...

Hard to tell if Itīs faster, since I uninstalled the ozone 5 version and installed ozone 6 and I havenīt done any specific comparison render tests.

Yes..unfortunatly you can not tweak atmosphere and change settings in the atmosphere editor and have VPR at the same time, you can however close the editor and move camera or sun manually and view the ozone render, but thatīs not the only thing we want do right?

Do not talk about xstream with me since I am not using that, this is ozone 6 tests.

As mentioned, the new scalable preview window makes it easier finally, I cant beleive how long time they had this tiny small useless previewer in all other versions.
But for it to kick *** it should be able to tweak fully with VPR if possible, but first they need to fix the missing advanced cloud layer tab, and star filter lensflare effects.

Im having a render going now at low res of 640x 480 (larger than that in the demo and you get watermarks all over the place)
takes quite some time to render with godrays activated, and that is with the faster spectral 1 layers, I do not fancy the spectral 2 layers since they are so much slower to render and also quite difficult to have soft edges on them compared to spectral 1 layers.

got me over 7 hr and 45 minutes left and has been rendering for over 1hr
and 32 minutes, for a 300 frame cloud movement at 640x480 render.
Think if I de activate godrays I might be able to cut that to half that time.

I could spit out cloud fly throughs at a fraction of that time with turbulenceFD fluids, but that is without any decent air spectral model and without specific shading within clouds that makes ozone so great.



Michael

prometheus
04-05-2012, 10:51 AM
This turns up as crosspost, (also on realistic clouds thread)but are valid for both threads...

have mentioned using TurbulenceFD for creating cloud simulations and have a sample on my vimeo page, that is however full bouyance simulated over a couple of frames and thatīs one way to do it.

You can also just sculpt geometry as you want your cloud pillars to be in modeler, and turn of bouyance in the simulation and you would simply get a volumetric fill of that object, after that we can add turbulence and noise by using the subgrid detail, you only have to sim the first frame really so no big simulation times here, it will just adapt to the geometry shape you make.

Rendertimes are really fast to ..way faster than Hypervoxels, you will not get any blobbing here with this technique.
It could be improved within TurbulenceFD updates if jascha adds some better improved shading models for internal scattering of smoke etc, hypervoxels
has the upperhand on good looking illumination, but then again way slower.

Im doing some test tomorrow to show some images of different stages and perhaps a mov clip.

Based on the former post, using Turbulence to create fluid cloud models
After they are shaped and sculpted in modeler.

I Think that this method can create great clouds once you learn how to set it up, but we of course lack a physical sky with all the air properties, so I tested to blend ozone6 and turbulence..initial test seem to be okay, the fluid cloud model picks up the sun and air properties it seems..have to test some more before posting any images.

This looks very promising because you are not limited to the cloud models in ozone wich also renders way slower than TurbulenceFD, instead of using the ozone clouds you would just fluid cloud models in conjunction with ozones air properties with sun,fog,haze etc and all that render soo much faster.

Clouds can be sculpted or shaped with polyshapes in modeler and just similuated within the first frame to save time, to add noise and turbulence we just use the subgrid detail noise.

Backside of it all is that you would have to invest in both plugins thou.

I need to test if I can get any godrays passing trough a fluid cloud model, but I doubt that can be done.

sadkkf
04-17-2012, 09:09 AM
I don't know if it's just me, but TFD doesn't seem all that realistic to me. Not only the clouds, but fire as well. It all just looks too smooth to me.

Perhaps there are methods to roughen it up a little, but overall, I'm not impressed. Then again, beside FumeFX, nothing seems real. Too bad it's not available for LW.

Of all the options mentioned here, I like Ozone since once license works with LW and Maya. :D

prometheus
04-17-2012, 11:02 AM
I don't know if it's just me, but TFD doesn't seem all that realistic to me. Not only the clouds, but fire as well. It all just looks too smooth to me.

Perhaps there are methods to roughen it up a little, but overall, I'm not impressed. Then again, beside FumeFX, nothing seems real. Too bad it's not available for LW.

Of all the options mentioned here, I like Ozone since once license works with LW and Maya. :D

I would say I disagree with you sort of, I think Itīs just a matter of time perhaps for some guys to learn and tweak Turbulence to such extend that the cloud formation will be very realistic, but you have to keep in mind that internal scattering might be trickier to get a natural look, besides clouds is half the part of the skies, the rest is haze,fog,mist and other air scattering phenomen wich currently isnīt available in Lightwave apart from ozone itself.

Ozone is great for air and the shading of clouds, but you are limited to those cloud layers shipped with it unless you have vue, since you can not change cloud density functions nor cloud detail tab wich are present in vue.

Besides that you can most certainly get very very close to fume fx if someone spends some time with turbulence, keep in mind that fume fx been around for so long that many people have learned it well.

What you see from me is only first initial test working this way.

Apart from all that...ozone is way way slower, and you can not get direct animatic scenes in real time with fly throughs in open gl, wich you can with TurbulenceFD once the simulation is done.

The natural fluid flow,expansion and bouyance forces is actually very close to what happens in cloud formations and not Faked by procedural textures as in vue, in Turbulence you can give wind forces to cloud pillars wich gives them a skewing that are appearent in many clouds, that isnīt possible with vue clouds.

The smoothness you are talking about is only a matter of tweaking it right and have the right resolutions, there are several options to that by either using higher resolution, doing upresing, using subgrid detail, using vortices strengh etc, or velocity displacement.



I would love to see turbulenceFD as a plugin for vue ..really that would boost up enormous possibilities for vue regarding both fire and smoke works and rain and clouds billowing up.

The biggest issue to get it more real would in my opinion be the atmospheric skies itself and sunlight etc.a

sadkkf
04-17-2012, 11:17 AM
And that's really what I was wondering. TFD probably has some tools to make the renders more realistic, but from what I've seen the clouds, fire and smoke look fake.

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm criticizing yours or anyone's work because I'm really not. I'm just wondering if there are settings to make the billowing plumes more puffy and less globular.

When my life is a little less frantic I'm planning to d/l the trial and see what I can do, but honestly, I'm a bit wary of purchasing ANOTHER fire plugin for LW. Been through a few already and those companies never last. And sinking too much more of my money into LW -- for now, at least -- seems like folly.

prometheus
04-17-2012, 11:29 AM
And that's really what I was wondering. TFD probably has some tools to make the renders more realistic, but from what I've seen the clouds, fire and smoke look fake.

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm criticizing yours or anyone's work because I'm really not. I'm just wondering if there are settings to make the billowing plumes more puffy and less globular.

When my life is a little less frantic I'm planning to d/l the trial and see what I can do, but honestly, I'm a bit wary of purchasing ANOTHER fire plugin for LW. Been through a few already and those companies never last. And sinking too much more of my money into LW -- for now, at least -- seems like folly.

No worries..I donīt care about your critics:) no really crits are good, but I also understand you probably ment an overall opinion of how it looks.

I think I know what you mean about puffs, wich for instance are pronounced in vues latest spectral layers or as you see them in frank basinskis wonderful terragen images, agreed those are a little harder to acheive, and I think there would be a need for a density fluid mapping procedural of some kind, or add lightwave own fractals to apply as subgrid detail, but you could probably acheive that with a high enough resolution in the fluid grid for starter.

forget all other fire plugins for lightwave, this is it and I do not think jascha would drop away from it as the cantarcan guy did, and that was the only other fluid solution available for lightwave.

Turbulence seem to have made some sucess with recent movies and tv-series so I believe it will carry on for sometime, Turbulence has been on my list for some time now, and always great improvements for updates, turbulence now also works with bullet without having to mdd bake the bullet sim.

Hereīs some more sample images of just changing sub grid detail after simulation is done, some images changed lighting too.

I have suggested some more shading options specificly designed for cloud appearance, I might add a request for a way to get that perlin billowing volume look too.

sadkkf
04-17-2012, 11:44 AM
Dynamic Realities had some decent plugs too, but they just disappeared. Those were in lots of movies, too.

Still, my apprehension isn't just over a fire/fluid sim plugin, it's over third-party support in general. I don't want to hijack this thread with my opinions because there have been many other threads on this subject, but without decent third-party support, I'm not sure LW can survive.

I know there are a lot of very talented people contributing lscripts and their own plugins to LW and I own and use a few myself. The community is fantastic, but without commercial plugs to do some heavy lifting, I don't know how much longer I'll continue using it.

LW can't be expected to do so much right out of the box. I'd love some better tools for rigging, UV, cloth, fur, etc. I mean, how is it the beta versions work better on some features than gold releases?

Sorry, just my rant. I love LightWave. It's the only 3D app I've seriously used, but unless 11 attracts better support I'll go with Maya now that it's actually affordable.

prometheus
04-17-2012, 11:54 AM
Dynamic Realities had some decent plugs too, but they just disappeared. Those were in lots of movies, too.

.


Yeah Dynamic realities had Nature fx I think, apart from ocean, they had some air and cloud tools, I think I tried that out, but didnīt get any far with it for clouds, Not sure..I think castaway used that for oceans, even the cool waves crushing in at land (not sure) and I think a saw something about the clouds also made in nature fx for some shots, wich program that was hosting naturefx I do not know.

As long as ozone doesnīt improve interactivity with lightwave itself and put missing density functions and cloud tabs in there, I would rather see ogoTaiki taken over by newtek and improved, but then again..that doesnt seem to happen..ogo taiki outperforms ozone in some areas of what it is capable of.

And yeah, keep your rantings of other stuff like cloth fx etc out of the cloud topics, we only have clouds to worry about here;)
Just start another thread about those issues if you want.

And go ahead..use maya if you get the fluids with it, they are quite advanced and have the best fluid clouds Ivé seen.

sadkkf
04-17-2012, 12:00 PM
And yeah, keep your rantings of other stuff like cloth fx etc out of the cloud topics, we only have clouds to worry about here;)
Just start another thread about those issues if you want.


NP. :)

BTW...how is TFD for wispy clouds? Like high atmosphere cirrus? I can see using that on a couple of projects where I'm looking down on islands or even models of planets.

prometheus
04-17-2012, 12:07 PM
NP. :)

BTW...how is TFD for wispy clouds? Like high atmosphere cirrus? I can see using that on a couple of projects where I'm looking down on islands or even models of planets.

I think it can be very good for that, I recall testing some ship fly through similar to the star treak voyager infamous scene with the ship flying throug hv gases.

You would only need to disable the bouyancy I think, use a huge plane, and use surface texuring for fluids, you can then choose any type of lightwave fractals,photos or painted images..but make sure to select a good one, check dpontīs rman collection and weather, gardner clouds etc.

then You can also simulate it a little to get distortions or whisps..

thereīs a couple of other ways like just using skytracer, or use a subpatched grid with hv sprites on it.

cheers.

prometheus
04-17-2012, 05:02 PM
Regarding fire and smoke, well I tried out maya fluids some time ago, but that was quite a while, that was troublesome to texture fluids, maybe it has improved now.

And I have tried houdini apprentice when it got itīs pyrofx...but frankly I enjoy turbulenceFD much more, because I seem to get faster results with it and tweaking it.

the new version with cuda support for simulations speeds things up, and also the opengl fireshader, the open gl smoke shader needs enhancement to match that of render, and I would also like to see a combination option of open gl both fire and smoke shader.

maybe we will get cuda rendering too, wich I believe would render faster too.
VPR is pretty nice thou to handle this.

Im starting to get a feel for the shading now for that rayleigh scattering look where red fire crosses over to thicker smoke ..when tweaking density and fire white point and damping, and thatīs without the firelight and multiple scattering.

prometheus
04-19-2012, 12:54 PM
NP. :)

BTW...how is TFD for wispy clouds? Like high atmosphere cirrus? I can see using that on a couple of projects where I'm looking down on islands or even models of planets.

Back to that and testing some whisps, based on TurbulenceFD fluids and dponīts windy wave procedural applied as surface texture from where the fluid is emitted.

first test, there are loads of options to enhance this , both within the procedurals themself, adding layers to subtract,add or even displace..then all the other options in TurbulenceFD with vortices scaling of turbulence setting right subgrid noise, add velocity displacement etc.

sample images, a 100 meter simple flat polyplane, voxel size 300 mm...wind setting of of a couple meters in speed and direction within the simulation in turbulenceFD

The first image shows no wind simulation, that is set to 0
The second image shows added wind settings.
The third image shows added subgrid detail with noise intensity of 100mm
the fourth image shows added subgrid detail with noise intensity of 500
the only size control was largest size and that was set to 10 meter.

I hope this shows that you can probably cook up many possible cloud whisps and formations, cirrus like to water wave like, spine feather like ones etc.

The third image could be used to render out image sequences for sea foam, that might look good.

prometheus
04-19-2012, 02:09 PM
just one more a little more feather cirrus style..