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Elmar Moelzer
03-07-2012, 01:38 PM
VoluMedic OG Releases low cost VoluMedic™ Creative Edition

Graz, Austria – March 7th 2012 – VoluMedic OG, a leading developer of custom LightWave plugins and 3D graphics software, today released VoluMedic “Creative Edition”, a lower cost version of the award winning VoluMedic 3.5 that is aimed at the creative-, visual effects- and visualization- markets. “The Creative Edition of VoluMedic will give users the most outstanding features of VoluMedic, at an unprecedented price of 299 USD”, said Wolfgang Rauter, CEO of VoluMedic OG.

In contrast to many lower cost versions, VoluMedic Creative Edition, or “VoluMedic CE” for short, does not limit the artist's creativity in any way. In fact it offers more power and flexibility to the artist than any previous version of VoluMedic until version 3.5.
Like the upcoming VoluMedic 3.5, VoluMedic CE features a new, more powerful volume object type with a new user interface. This “Complex Object” type is available in addition to the “Standard Object” already familiar to users of VoluMedic 3.x.
The new object type was specifically created with the needs of the visual artist and creative user in mind and provides a lot more texturing and animation options than the Standard Object.
Another new feature, the new VoluMedic Procedural texture, allows the mapping of volume data to any texture channel in LightWave3D, like surfaces, displacement maps, textured motion channels and more.
The new features open a wide range of new applications for one of the industry's most revered volume rendering tools. In addition to rendering and editing scanned volume data, artists can use procedural textures to create appealing cloud and smoke effects and create perfectly beveled logos from image maps without ever having to enter LightWave's modeling application.

Comparison Table for Standard Object Type to Complex Object Type:
http://www.volumedic.com/objects/Compare%20Complex%20and%20Standard%20Object.pdf

Compared to VoluMedic 3.5, the Creative Edition has restrictions in the viewport display and render styles of the Standard Object. It also lacks tools for measurement and analysis.
There are no restrictions on the Complex Object and all important dataset editing tools are present as well, including volume painting/sculpting.

Table showing the Restrictions of VoluMedic CE compared to VoluMedic 3.5:
http://www.volumedic.com/objects/Restrictions%20of%20VoluMedic%20CE.pdf

About VoluMedic™
VoluMedic is a suite of tools for LightWave3DŪ, the award winning 3D animation software by NewTek Inc..
VoluMedic and LightWave3D together form a software package capable of loading, manipulating, measuring and rendering volumetric data from sources such as computed tomography, magnetic resonance tomography, 3D ultrasound, PET, SPECT, digital microscopy and more.
The vast tool set provided by VoluMedic and LightWave3D is unsurpassed by competing volume visualization software.
VoluMedic is flexible enough to be used not only for medical visualization, but also for material science, non destructive testing, forensic animation, biology, geology and even astronomy.
The combination of VoluMedic's excellent software volume renderer and LightWave's industry standard animation tools, allow VoluMedic to act as a leading tool in award winning TV and film productions, such as the Emmy award winning documentary "Inside the Living Body" (2008 Emmy for best visual effects in a documentary) by National Geographic Channel and "CSI:Crime Scene Investigation".

Pricing and Availability:
VoluMedic Creative Edition is now available for a suggested retail price of USD 299 (Euro 229), excluding VAT.

For more information or to purchase, visit: www.volumedic.com.

About VoluMedic OG
Funded in 2000, the company quickly evolved from an animation and media production company to a provider of specialized computer graphics solutions with a focus on the development of volume rendering software.
The flagship product VoluMedic™, an add- on for the Emmy award winning visual effects software LightWave3D by NewTek, is a leading software for the import, manipulation, analysis and rendering of three dimensional volume data.
The VoluMedic render- technology can be licensed separately and has been successfully used in FDA approved medical imaging software.
The VoluMedic OG also offers custom software development services in other fields related to computer graphics.
Clients include AVL- List GmbH, Pioneer Productions, Xvivo, Zizala Lichtsysteme GmbH and Zoic Studios.
Website: http://www.volumedic.com

Elmar Moelzer
03-07-2012, 01:54 PM
How to create a perfectly smooth, beveled logo from a B&W image with VoluMedic CE in just two minutes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghoW68OkfZE

Example animation showing the finished result:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHAe4DItmrU

Volume Painting Sculpting with VoluMedic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmVosO6_srw

How to use the new complex object type:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkxhht8QkaU

Example animation of text created from an image map blended with a procedural texture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOhg79lw07U

Example animation of a logo and a volumetric dataset blended with procedural textures:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJrvwWKm0Bg

ejo3rd
03-07-2012, 01:55 PM
That's awesome for the hobbyist/casual user! Thank you!

OnlineRender
03-07-2012, 02:25 PM
Brilliant !

Lightwolf
03-07-2012, 03:24 PM
It looks amazing. Congratulations on the release and the best of luck with it.

Cheers,
Mike

prometheus
03-08-2012, 04:06 AM
Now this is interesting, I missed that the Creative edition was released, and at an affordable price, need to check comparative charts, also how useful it can be in other tasks than checking medical data wich by the way can be hard to find it seems.

A question..could 3d coat and sculpted voxel meshes be used in conjuction with volumedic CE( rendering of that 3d coat data, and perhaps also paint modification?)

Great that you started to provide mov clips too, and that you also mention if it works under CE edition.
:thumbsup:

Michael

prometheus
03-08-2012, 04:17 AM
By the way, donīt see any volumedic CE version on the site, this really needs to be a demo download too, doesnīt matter if it has watermark and no saving.
just want to check functions properly, so I know what works compared to full volumedic.

Michael

mav3rick
03-08-2012, 05:13 AM
very good elmar.... will keep my eye on this if i get project that will need it

dwburman
03-08-2012, 10:23 AM
Cool! I might have to look for a project to use this on :)

I did notice that the price listed on the site is different from the price listed here (299 Euro on the site).

Elmar Moelzer
03-08-2012, 11:34 AM
That is a mistake then. I will personally tar and feather the one responsible.
It is 299 USD, not Euro!

nickdigital
03-08-2012, 11:49 AM
Congrats on the release! :thumbsup:

antsj
03-08-2012, 12:36 PM
Great to see this release offered.

Has the CE been updated to be compatible with LW 11 current release? I may have overlooked the info when I looked at the Volumedic web site.

Thanks

aj

prospector
03-08-2012, 01:31 PM
I don't even have a project for this and I am positive I will get this.

And why aren't we using this stuff instead of polys in LW......the titles look better than a poly letter without all the work getting it to look that good, and the face on one of the vids seemed just as smooth as reg polys.

Elmar Moelzer
03-08-2012, 01:37 PM
All versions of VoluMedic are compatible with LightWave 11.
Older versions will issue an error message that can be ignored, when the user creates a new Standard Volume Object.
The error message is the result of VM issuing a command that got removed for LW11. It is not going to have any side effets on the functionality though.
Anyway, the issue is fixed in VoluMedic CE and in the upcoming VoluMedic 3.5.

Elmar Moelzer
03-08-2012, 01:45 PM
And why aren't we using this stuff instead of polys in LW
If we can get the budget together for this, then I would really love to invest some extra time and get some sparse voxel octrees into LW. Use them for sculpting as well. Then you could do some really interesting stuff with tons of detail. But first lets focus on the current release :)

prospector
03-08-2012, 03:10 PM
Focus shmokus

Get'er done !!!
:hey::D

Bitboy
03-08-2012, 05:45 PM
That looks really great Elmar. I might jump on the VoluMedic bandwagon soon :) Congrats on the release!

FredyN
03-08-2012, 05:51 PM
could it be used somehow for fire or cloud simulation?

Cageman
03-08-2012, 06:18 PM
Very impressive!

Don't have a project where this can be used, currently, but at the end of the month, you will have another CE lic sold!

:thumbsup:

Elmar Moelzer
03-09-2012, 07:41 AM
could it be used somehow for fire or cloud simulation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7oyHuX4A38&feature=youtu.be

I know it is not paricularily great, but I only had a few minutes to spare on this. It is really just the puffy clouds procedural combined with a gradient texture to fade them off towards the top ( to avoid a sharp terminator at the borders of the container).
I am sure that people could achieve much better results with more time and effort.
Rendertime 150 sec per frame on average (Core i7 820 QM with 1.73 Ghz), no rendertime increase when penetrating the clouds.

Celshader
03-09-2012, 09:11 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7oyHuX4A38&feature=youtu.be

I know it is not paricularily great, but I only had a few minutes to spare on this. It is really just the puffy clouds procedural combined with a gradient texture to fade them off towards the top ( to avoid a sharp terminator at the borders of the container).
I am sure that people could achieve much better results with more time and effort.
Rendertime 150 sec per frame on average (Core i7 820 QM with 1.73 Ghz), no rendertime increase when penetrating the clouds.

Elmar, that video just got you a sale. I placed my order for a copy of Volumedic CE on Safe Harbor, and Dave will be linking that copy to his dongle as soon as it arrives. :)

prometheus
03-09-2012, 10:37 AM
Elmar, that video just got you a sale. I placed my order for a copy of Volumedic CE on Safe Harbor, and Dave will be linking that copy to his dongle as soon as it arrives. :)

Good marketing..Imagine if he gives that even a little more time, or let someone with great cloud skills do an even better mov clip.

Michael

probiner
03-09-2012, 11:03 AM
Good Luck Elmar, you're really putting forward a powerful tool that expands LW capabilities.

I guess March is the month of volumetrics with this and Turbulence. Good times!

Elmar Moelzer
03-09-2012, 11:04 AM
Elmar, that video just got you a sale. I placed my order for a copy of Volumedic CE on Safe Harbor, and Dave will be linking that copy to his dongle as soon as it arrives.
:)

wesleycorgi
03-09-2012, 12:45 PM
I'm curious, does this work with LW11's instancing?

Elmar Moelzer
03-09-2012, 01:01 PM
Wesley, I honestly have not tried it yet, but it really does not need instancing in the sense that it does not require any memory for geometry (unless you wish to limit the volume by geometry of course). So it should not make to much of a difference whether you have one or 1000 VoluMedic objects in the scene.

I am doing some more testing while waiting for compiles and it does seem like Dponts weather procedural gives really interesting results.

prometheus
03-09-2012, 02:42 PM
I am doing some more testing while waiting for compiles and it does seem like Dponts weather procedural gives really interesting results.

One of my favourite procedurals for clouds, quite tweakable in different sizes with a large range from cloud size, lacunarity, cloud wind size etc.

Takes some time of using to be able to figure out best combinations thou.

Michael

robpowers3d
03-10-2012, 11:14 AM
Yes, Congrats Elmar on your new version of VoluMedic! We appreciate the hard work that you do and are very pleased to have you as part of our LightWave Third Party Development Family!

Elmar Moelzer
03-10-2012, 01:57 PM
Thanks for the kind words, Rob!
I could not have done it without my team though.

Dodgy
03-11-2012, 05:03 PM
I'm using it currently for a job I'm working on. Here's some example renders I've produced. Each renders in about 1.5 mins on a 2GHz i5 laptop, so it's pretty quick, and very easy to use.

RenderBlur
03-12-2012, 02:22 PM
Hi

The example video showing the logo creation is very cool and the new CE version and price put it on my radar as a hobbiest.

If I use HDRI and image based lighting, will the Volumedic objects receive that lighting as well? Also, could a Volumedic object take part in a Bullet physics simulation? I assume something like fracture wouldn't work since it's not polygons, but I'm curious about other physics interactions.

Thanks!

erikals
03-12-2012, 03:04 PM
you might be able to mdd scan the dynamic objects' motion and apply the voxels
or maybe you don't even need to scan it...

good question

Elmar Moelzer
03-12-2012, 03:19 PM
I'm using it currently for a job I'm working on. Here's some example renders I've produced. Each renders in about 1.5 mins on a 2GHz i5 laptop, so it's pretty quick, and very easy to use.
Very cool work, Mike! I am always happy to see what our users can do!


If I use HDRI and image based lighting, will the Volumedic objects receive that lighting as well? Also, could a Volumedic object take part in a Bullet physics simulation? I assume something like fracture wouldn't work since it's not polygons, but I'm curious about other physics interactions.
HDRI lighting works. I will post a rendering in a minute.

We have a tool for the conversion of a volumetric object into a polygon- object. That might be helpful for making things work with Bullet, which only can work with polygons.
I have to apollogize, but I have not had any time to play with Bullet yet, so I cant give you a more definitive answer. I think that if you can split up the object into separate objects and use bullet on those, then you could parent the volumetric pieces to the polygon pieces, though you might just as well render the polygon parts directly then.
Oh and you can convert geometry into a volumetric object too, with VoluMedic CE. So you can go back and forth. Might be interesting to some.

sami
03-12-2012, 07:23 PM
Elmar,

Just curious, does Volumedic load standard MRI data one gets from a typical radiographer? I have no idea about the medical formats, but if I could grab the data files from the disks they provide and view/tweak the data in LW with Volumedic in 3D that would be very cool.

thanks

Elmar Moelzer
03-12-2012, 07:48 PM
Hello Sami!
VoluMedic loads medical imaging data in a variety of formats. The most commonly used format is DICOM. For neuro science NIFTI and Analyze are also pretty popular. VoluMedic supports all of them.
Please also note that there is a lot of free DICOM data on the web. We can also help you out with datasets from our private library, if you have a specific request.

erikals
03-13-2012, 02:22 AM
is it possible to get a full-body MRI scan anywhere?
and does the resolution quality of this data vary?

(not the "Joseph Paul Jernigan" though, due ethical reasons)

akademus
03-13-2012, 02:34 AM
is it possible to get a full-body MRI scan anywhere?
and does the resolution quality of this data vary?

(not the "Joseph Paul Jernigan" though, due ethical reasons)

I was able to obtain some MRI of torso and legs, it shouldn't hard to find it and hospitals usually remove personal information from downloadable data.

Elmar Moelzer
03-13-2012, 06:44 AM
is it possible to get a full-body MRI scan anywhere?
and does the resolution quality of this data vary?
I have a full body (without head) CT- Angiogram (with contrast agent injected) of a male here.
Resolution does indeed vary from scan to scan and from modality to modality. MRI is usually lower resolution than CT and has higher contrast in soft tissue and organs, but does not show bones well. CT has a higher resolution, is better with bones but has less contrast in the soft tissue.
Generally I would use MRIs mostly for showing things like the brain and certain specific organs. Lungs, kidneys and colon can be done pretty well with contrast agents and CT scans. CTs are cheaper too.
When checking for the resolution make sure that you look at the number of slices in the series above all. This is usually where the resolution is lacking the most.

prometheus
03-13-2012, 07:49 AM
I was able to obtain some MRI of torso and legs, it shouldn't hard to find it and hospitals usually remove personal information from downloadable data.

How can they remove personal information? Itīs all there in the body:D

I wonder ..my mother who passed away last year in May at the age of 80, she got a brain tumour when she was something around 64, but was "cured", not sure if they did a crt scan, I wonder about my own feelings in such case ..If I would like to have it and look at it..weird.

Michael

akademus
03-13-2012, 08:12 AM
Well, I think header of data (or something else) says about name, age, disease, unit, hospital and so on, they just clear that data.

My mum did an MR of her spine due to some problems with her back and I asked for MR data and they were kind enough to burn it onto CD for me in hospital. I visualized the data and managed to get a 3D model of spine to show her what might be wrong. It was fun yet creepy in a way, knowing its part of someone you know. I wouldn't have any problems if it was some of mine body parts, I guess. I wanted to watch gastroscopy when they did it to me, but doctor wasn't fond of idea. I just thought it would be cool to see myself on the inside :)

prometheus
03-13-2012, 08:19 AM
Well, I think header of data (or something else) says about name, age, disease, unit, hospital and so on, they just clear that data.

My mum did an MR of her spine due to some problems with her back and I asked for MR data and they were kind enough to burn it onto CD for me in hospital. I visualized the data and managed to get a 3D model of spine to show her what might be wrong. It was fun yet creepy in a way, knowing its part of someone you know. I wouldn't have any problems if it was some of mine body parts, I guess. I wanted to watch gastroscopy when they did it to me, but doctor wasn't fond of idea. I just thought it would be cool to see myself on the inside :)

Might be enough to take a look at the outside in the mirror at morning:D
I wonder when the day is here when you can go in to a crt scan in the morning and get daily live feedback on how the body is doing with an AI medical computer telling you somethings wrong, to expensive for that to happen and I guess the body shouldnīt be exposed to such scans each day thou.

But indeed it would be cool to have your own body scanned inside-out at different stages in life perhaps.

Michael

erikals
03-13-2012, 08:22 AM
as a kid i asked the doctor if i could have the cecum after the operation... never happened.
stupid doctor. he promised.

Elmar Moelzer
03-13-2012, 08:40 AM
well, you would be suprised, but unless they keep the face somehow, it is really hard to recognize someone just by their body ;)
All the personal information is removed from the DICOM data.

Elmar Moelzer
03-13-2012, 08:44 AM
Sorry to everyone who downloaded the demo. Thanks to a mistake by someone the Complex Object Panel is not working correctly in the demo...
Note to self: Never test a demo version with your dongle still attached ;)
Need some sleep...

Elmar Moelzer
03-13-2012, 05:27 PM
So, a revised and corrected demo has been uploaded to our website. Please update to this new version. You should (theoretically) now be able to use the Complex Object. Thank you for your patience with us!

I have also attached a rendering that uses HDRI- Lighting for Renderblur. For some reason it renders faster if I use uninterpolated MC radiosity than interpolated radiosity, at least with this scene. It may be due to a LW- bug of sorts. Rendertimes were- IIRC- 20 minutes on my mobile Corei7 820 QM (1.73 Ghz).
That is not very fast, but the object is also reflecting, which combined with the radiosity costs quite a bit of performance.

Cageman
03-13-2012, 07:07 PM
So, a revised and corrected demo has been uploaded to our website. Please update to this new version. You should (theoretically) now be able to use the Complex Object. Thank you for your patience with us!

I have also attached a rendering that uses HDRI- Lighting for Renderblur. For some reason it renders faster if I use uninterpolated MC radiosity than interpolated radiosity, at least with this scene. It may be due to a LW- bug of sorts. Rendertimes were- IIRC- 20 minutes on my mobile Corei7 820 QM (1.73 Ghz).
That is not very fast, but the object is also reflecting, which combined with the radiosity costs quite a bit of performance.

Neat!

Could you share this asset? Would be fun to see how fast it renders on other machines. :)

RenderBlur
03-14-2012, 09:32 AM
That's a beautiful render, thanks Elmar! This method of creating a 3D logo with those super smooth beveled edges is so easy, this alone puts it on my purchase list. I'm also looking forward to your example video of how to use procedural textures on these objects, should be very interesting.

thanks!

Elmar Moelzer
03-14-2012, 12:27 PM
RenderBlur, hehehe I guess I forgot to post the How to for the video with the procedural texture.
Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSG_JKSLjmA
and here is the resulting video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHAe4DItmrU&feature=related
I rendered that one without radiosity. I need the machine to much to afford letting it render for that long (at 20 minutes a frame a video does take a while ;)

RenderBlur
03-15-2012, 11:36 AM
Thanks Elmar, that's very cool!

erikals
06-11-2012, 04:54 PM
 
minibump,

is it possible for Volumedic CE to use particles?
(was thinking maybe Volumedic could be used instead of Hypervoxels)

 

erikals
06-12-2012, 04:36 PM
 
alright, found the answer...
http://forums.newtek.com/showpost.php?p=1227002&postcount=44

 

Elmar Moelzer
06-13-2012, 09:16 PM
Currently VoluMedic does not render particles, but we have some plans for that, actually several different options and prototypes.

Elmar Moelzer
06-13-2012, 09:18 PM
It would be really cool if people would support this low cost version of VoluMedic with a purchase. So far this version has not really sold as much as we would have liked to see.

jwiede
06-13-2012, 11:19 PM
It would be really cool if people would support this low cost version of VoluMedic with a purchase. So far this version has not really sold as much as we would have liked to see.
Are there any plans for a Mac version in the near future? As interesting as it is, I don't generally purchase plugins which are Windows-only.

prometheus
06-14-2012, 03:36 AM
It would be really cool if people would support this low cost version of VoluMedic with a purchase. So far this version has not really sold as much as we would have liked to see.


Itīs on my list, but unfortunatly TurbulenceFD is priority number one before volumedic, unfortunatly when I was trying to test the demo, something got screwed up, probably me not handling it correct thou, then something else screws up like my workstation getting screwed up harddrive etc...so always something that comes between evaluating the product so to speak.

My vacation start after next week, and as soon as I get my workstation up and running again, I plan to evaluate it.

Michael

prometheus
06-14-2012, 03:43 AM
By the way, I think the website might be better of with a clearer direction to the download, or a constant banner of Volumedic CE and distinctive description of it as the lite version, Itīs kind of a little hidden in the dark when you look around as it is now, just a suggestion.

I will post a heads up on the release of volumedic CE on a swedish graphics forum later on, but it would be wise to give it a more distinctive page I think, with comparative note and pricing.

Edit...I was looking at the download area ..andnot the solution area, but nevertheless, the pricing could be stated directly in the CE page apart from the purchase page.


Michael

prometheus
06-14-2012, 03:48 AM
By the way, why isnīt Newtek promoting a bundle with volumedic? as you bundle it with lightwave on your page Elmar? maybe that is not for you to answer thou?
This could and should be bundled directly on newteks page with volumedic CE.

I hope they try that marketing bundle type and also with such wonderful tools as TurbulenceFD and LWcad.

Edit...one thing that annoys me, is still the lack of data samples to test on, you should have more directly on the page, I think I was browsing around those link, many broken links, and data sets not suitable or not working.
Michael

Dodgy
06-14-2012, 07:10 AM
Currently VoluMedic does not render particles, but we have some plans for that, actually several different options and prototypes.

I've used nodes with it to render particles. I'll upload some examples when I get the chance.

erikals
06-14-2012, 09:25 AM
 
cool-cool http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/035.gif

this is faster than hypervoxels right?... :]

 

Elmar Moelzer
06-15-2012, 06:41 AM
I have to apollogize for the problems with sample data. These are all not provided by us and thus any issues with them are out of our control :(
There used to be a page with really good datasets (Osirix database), but they have recently done something to their database that made the files unreadable by anything other than their own software. It is not only us having problems with them, but any other software package that I know.

Dodgy
06-15-2012, 07:23 AM
Here's a fountain of particles with a turbulance node mixing onto them. I have to say, it's a bit sensitive (crash prone) using it in this manner though.

Dodgy
06-15-2012, 07:30 AM
And here's the particles in VM's volume mode. The animation above was in solid mode. The harsh line is where they meet the edge of the bounding box.

prometheus
06-15-2012, 08:16 AM
And here's the particles in VM's volume mode. The animation above was in solid mode. The harsh line is where they meet the edge of the bounding box.


Maybe volumedic could be developed with a tension blending mode, wich has been absent from lightwave for ages, and Newtek doesnīt seem to pay attention to that unfortunatly wich makes me kind of sad, some crappy blending mode that doesnīt give any good results were introduced in 11, but halfe ar..:hey:
The old Dynamite plugin had it correctly done thou.

Can you put a noise or fractal on to that to se how it looks Dodgy?

Michael

Elmar Moelzer
06-15-2012, 08:59 AM
We actually were working on directly supporting particles in VoluMedic CE in a new and interesting fashion too, but with sales as they are, we had to put it on hold.

prometheus
06-15-2012, 10:29 AM
We actually were working on directly supporting particles in VoluMedic CE in a new and interesting fashion too, but with sales as they are, we had to put it on hold.

Ah..thatīs a petty, But can understand that, unfortunatly putting it on hold wont gain any increasement in sales, support for it might, but as mentioned..I can understand that decision.

Michael

Rayek
06-15-2012, 09:37 PM
Never mind.

geo_n
06-15-2012, 10:43 PM
I found this open source alternative - pity it's cuda only. The results look quite similar.

http://graphics.tudelft.nl/ExposureRender

You just killed possible sales of volumedic ce and possibly volumedic full with this free alternative.8~

Rayek
06-16-2012, 12:50 AM
Never mind.

geo_n
06-16-2012, 01:03 AM
...what on earth? I was just looking for volumetric rendering of medical data sets on the net, and this came up. I thought it was interesting as an application. Please do not kill the messenger here. :-)


Not killing the messenger. :D
Just that another developer is also saying free is killing development in hc forums. By pointing to an open source alternative in a commercial products thread, users who potentially would have bought volumedics ce for hobby,work,etc will probably think twice. I know I have.

Rayek
06-16-2012, 01:07 AM
I was wondering: can Volumedic convert the object to true geometry, with applied materials automatically?

*edit* Ah, yes, you can. Just checked the site.

Sekhar
06-16-2012, 08:17 AM
Not killing the messenger. :D
Just that another developer is also saying free is killing development in hc forums. By pointing to an open source alternative in a commercial products thread, users who potentially would have bought volumedics ce for hobby,work,etc will probably think twice. I know I have.

Are you serious? This is a NewTek, not VoluMedic, forum. The reason I visit forums is precisely to be educated by stuff like this. If there's a RealFlow announcement, are you saying nobody should mention Blender?

If people buy commercial software over free stuff, it should be because commercial is better, not because they didn't know the free versions existed. In this case, I'm sure VoluMedic has benefits worth the price, and Elmar will probably point them out soon for a discussion. For one, it runs in LW.

SBowie
06-16-2012, 09:24 AM
This is a NewTek, not VoluMedic, forum.True, and I don't want to overstate what follows, as I think those involved have taken this into consideration now (and I'm quite sure no-one meant to offer even the slightest offense, even inadvertently), but keeping your point in mind, please consider the following excerpt from the forum moderation policy:



Treat third party announcement posts as respected guests here.

Most, I think, would feel that posting to draw attention to a competitor (free or not) in a thread that constitutes a public announcement by a third party developer to be at least mildly in contravention of the spirit of that item. Someone may well wish to remark on the strengths or attributes on one versus the other package, but it would be better to honor the original poster of this announcement, starting another thread for that discussion. That would leave this one free to discuss matters having to do with the promotion.

Phil
06-16-2012, 09:43 AM
We actually were working on directly supporting particles in VoluMedic CE in a new and interesting fashion too, but with sales as they are, we had to put it on hold.

Hmm. Well if I my opinion counts :

- there's no Mac version (I know why, but it still limits any opportunity to support you)
- the long introduction video is fine, but the CE page is a block of text and leaves me scratching my head. Some use cases wouldn't be bad (illustrate how and why the user might want to use the mapping feature), and some clear figures would help - you rely on text and lists at the moment.

For example, I read about the complex object type and the text declares that it provides more texture and animation than the standard object. However, from the list comparison, it seems to be limited in render performance and there's an awful lot of red in the comparison. It's therefore unclear to me what real advantages there are.

- The CE version is being aimed at artists, but you're using the same marketing approach that you use for your primary clientele - medical folk. The consequence is a rather dry presentation that leaves the potential customer pretty cold. I wonder if you might generate more interest by having a more focussed set of material to show artists how they can save time / accomplish more. Clearly showing what is lost between the versions, rather than listing 'Some limitations' in the comparison would also be good.

- I'm still not clear what the different render modes actually mean. There is no example to show the differences.

- The Volumedic page has some (tiny!) thumbnails. These are missing from the CE page. Perhaps you need some links to allow the user to jump to relevant areas of the site, or perhaps simply consider a different approach to showing which version has which features.

Elmar Moelzer
06-17-2012, 03:13 AM
double post

Elmar Moelzer
06-17-2012, 06:36 AM
You just killed possible sales of volumedic ce and possibly volumedic full with this free alternative.
I have seen this one before. I was not all to scared by it.
This thing is a viewer for some custom converted imaging data. VoluMedic is a volume rendering application that does A LOT more than just viewing some DICOM files. We have a whole bunch of importers (not just for medical imaging data), we have ways to modify data, we can convert volume data to geometry and vice versa. With the complex object type we can combine datasets
But I will happily invite anyone to try getting any of these free viewers to work (there are several out there) and getting good results from them. Not easy...
IIRC, I could not even get the app to run on any of my machines.


- there's no Mac version (I know why, but it still limits any opportunity to support you)
Mac versions cost a lot of money to develop. Macs are expensive and porting a complex application like VoluMedic is also expensive. We would love to make one, but we currently dont have the means to do it.


For example, I read about the complex object type and the text declares that it provides more texture and animation than the standard object. However, from the list comparison, it seems to be limited in render performance and there's an awful lot of red in the comparison. It's therefore unclear to me what real advantages there are.
It gives artists more options, in return for more complexity and somewhat slower rendering. It is a tradeoff.

The website is not ideal, I know. The maker of the website has been hard to convince to make improvements. I will take care of that as soon as I have some time.

In the meantime, have you had a look at our youtube channel? There are several tutorial videos that hopefully illustrate the difference in usability between the two object types pretty well.
I think the confusion comes from the fact that both versions offer both object types. The standard object is however limited to some essential functions in the CE version. It was necessary to include the standard object type in order to keep the volume painting in it (which for technical reasons cant work in the complex object type).

inkpen3d
07-31-2012, 07:00 AM
Hi Elmar,

I am evaluating the latest demo version of VoluMedic 3.5 CE (using LW 11.0.1 Win 32 running on a 3GHz 64-bit PC with 6GB memory) as I might need to use it in an upcoming project for a potential client.

Following the VoluMedic's new "Complex" object type YouTube video tutorial (at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkxhht8QkaU) everything is fine up to the point where I open up the ComplexObject's Opacity in the Texture Editor and attempt to add the VoluMedic Texture - unfortunately, all the drop-down control menus below the Texture Value entry field are disabled, so I can't proceed any further!

I am pretty sure that I 'm using a valid DICOM data set (it loaded and the slices show up in the VoluMedic Editor okay).

Any help would be much appreciated.

Regarding datasets:


You mentioned that you have a set of full-body scan data (minus head) - would it be possible for you to provide a download link to this dataset (and any others that might be useful :D)?


You also mention that the Osirix datasets can no longer be used by VoluMedic due to a change to the format of these datasets. However, other applications for visualising medical image data that I have tried out (I won't mention their names here out of respect to you) don't seem to have any problems reading and displaying these Osirix datasets - I humbly suggest that maybe you need to revisit your DICOM data importation code.


Another point to note about the Osirx datasets - the terms and conditions of use (at the bottom of the web page) stipulates "These datasets are exclusively available for research and teaching. You are not authorized to redistribute or sell them, or use them for commercial purposes." Do you know of any sources of datasets that do not fall foul of this limitation?


Regards,
Peter

Elmar Moelzer
08-02-2012, 05:55 PM
Hello inkpen!
Sorry for the late reply. I havent had time to check the forums recently.
- The VoluMedic Texture is not working because this is a Demo version. People would be able to use it elsewhere in the application since it is not tied to VoluMedic (e.g. it could be used to texture a polygon object).

- I can not provide a download link for the dataset. I am also currently not in Austria and cant access my dataset database :(
You could try the NBIA database. There are many useful datasets in that one and it is free.
https://imaging.nci.nih.gov/ncia/login.jsf

- Interesting. I tried DICOMWORKS, ImageJ and Irfanvew and none of them was able to read it (but were able to read older versions of the same files just fine).
There are other people and packages that have the same problem. I have just recently talked to people working on a different package about the issue. They analyzed the files and there is some weird going on there.
If the other package you named reads them fine and has a DICOM exporter, you can always try to export the files from there and see whether VoluMedic can load them then.

- The usage terms seem to be new though, I think.

inkpen3d
08-03-2012, 04:38 AM
Hi Elmar,

Thanks for the response.

It's a shame that I will not be able to evaluate using the VoluMedic Texture, but at least I now understand why that's not available.

I can wait until you get back to Austria for any links to datasets you might have available. Thanks for the link to the NBIA database.

I'll PM you the identities of the applications that I used that had no problems reading the Osirix datasets.

The potential issue that you have with VoluMedic not being able to read the Osirix datasets is that they come near the top of any Google searches for DICOM data. So you run the risk of potential customers attempting to evaluate VoluMedic using these Osirix datasets and it failing to work!

And to be honest, it's a real uphill struggle trying to find other medical datasets that are as accessible and wide-ranging as those on the Osirix web site - I've spent ages hunting down good alternatives!

Regards,
Peter

dsol
08-03-2012, 07:37 AM
This looks really amazing, but sadly I'm mac-based (LW is only a part of what I do for a living). If there is ever an OSX version released I will seriously consider adding it to my toolset. I just lurrrrve voxels :)