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spigolo
03-04-2012, 09:39 AM
I was a bit frustrated to see modo 601 providing animated booleans untill I have discovered that DP Kit provide the same function for free and it works!

All LW community should be grateful to Dennis for his great work!

HenrikSkoglund
03-04-2012, 10:17 AM
I was a bit frustrated to see modo 601 providing animated booleans untill I have discovered that DP Kit provide the same function for free and it works!

All LW community should be grateful to Dennis for his great work!

WOW! Didn't know that... thanks for the tip. And thanks Denis :)

Cageman
03-04-2012, 01:04 PM
I am astonished every time I see that LW-users aren't aware of Denis DPKit and, among the goodies in there, the Boolean-node, which has been around for quite some time, inside his little neat tool called DPKit.

:)

HenrikSkoglund
03-04-2012, 01:35 PM
I am astonished every time I see that LW-users aren't aware of Denis DPKit and, among the goodies in there, the Boolean-node, which has been around for quite some time, inside his little neat tool called DPKit.

:)

I'm really sorry for that :)

Well, of course I know of Denis and his stuff, but apparently not good enough :)

Cageman
03-04-2012, 01:41 PM
Haha... :)

No worries... didn't mean anything bad at all... good that people are brought up to speed with the tools LW has access to...

But... this also brings concerns to me; I'm starting to understand why LW is percieved as an uncapable application; if people inside the LW-community doesn't know about all tools out there that makes LW very capable, how would anyone outside the LW-community even have a slightest idea about it?

I think that NewTek needs to rethink their marketing and make sure to include some of the key third party developers... especially thouse that have a lot of tools for free on their websites.

:)

HenrikSkoglund
03-04-2012, 01:57 PM
Haha... :)

No worries... didn't mean anything bad at all... good that people are brought up to speed with the tools LW has access to...

But... this also brings concerns to me; I'm starting to understand why LW is percieved as an uncapable application; if people inside the LW-community doesn't know about all tools out there that makes LW very capable, how would anyone outside the LW-community even have a slightest idea about it?

I think that NewTek needs to rethink their marketing and make sure to include some of the key third party developers... especially thouse that have a lot of tools for free on their websites.

:)

No hard feelings at all :)

I see what you mean, and I guess there really only is one way to solve that, and that is to talk to outside developers like Denis and get permission to include the tools directly with Lightwave. But I'm not sure that would be the best thing for the future development though?

For artists like me, well... what can I say, I barely have the time to use the features that is already there since I only work half-time with 3d, but I can't stand when people downtalk a software that is as good as Lightwave is now. I have, for example, been working a lot with Modo before (which is also why I need to get back on track with some stuff :)), and I've went back to Lightwave again since it works a lot better for me when I work. Skipped LW10 and jumped straight on LW11 since it seems to go in the right direction now.

jasonwestmas
03-04-2012, 02:19 PM
Haha... :)

No worries... didn't mean anything bad at all... good that people are brought up to speed with the tools LW has access to...

But... this also brings concerns to me; I'm starting to understand why LW is percieved as an uncapable application; if people inside the LW-community doesn't know about all tools out there that makes LW very capable, how would anyone outside the LW-community even have a slightest idea about it?

I think that NewTek needs to rethink their marketing and make sure to include some of the key third party developers... especially thouse that have a lot of tools for free on their websites.

:)

Somebody definitely needs to vocally support the hard core supporters (no pun intended)of LW and NT, no matter how underground they may seem to be. I know DPKit nodes aren't an exciting thing to talk about but obviously there is some power to them.

probiner
03-04-2012, 02:25 PM
Well that and stop with the feature mimic of 3rd Party and focusing on delivering a sound application. It's like wasted effort with solutions that already exist, while stepping on partners' toes while many other issues are not dealt with at all.
Sure that for integration sake there are stuff that is better to be developed in-house, but 3rd parties won't change the Core (pun intended) of the app; just pick the goodies the house gives them, expand it and cover any holes.

Anyway a cheer to monsieur Pontonnier.

HenrikSkoglund
03-04-2012, 02:34 PM
Well that and stop with the feature mimic of 3rd Party and focusing on delivering a sound application. It's like wasted effort with solutions that already exist, while stepping on partners' toes while many other issues are not dealt with at all.
Sure that for integration sake there are stuff that is better to be developed in-house, but 3rd parties won't change the Core (pun intended) of the app; just pick the goodies the house gives them, expand it and cover any holes.

I agree, better use resources to build on the software elsewhere. But maybe Newtek could make a section on their website devoted to developers? I remember when recoil came of for Modo, it was all over the place at Lux's website. This way, people interested in Lightwave could easily see what's really possible to create with it.

Dexter2999
03-04-2012, 02:47 PM
Okay, a couple of things...

One, sorry but NO to Newtek distributing DPKit. Denis withdrew all of his toys not so very long ago because someone was redistributing his stuff. Also, if Newtek is distributing it then there is nothing that points the users to the "DONATE" button on his site...and let's be clear, these are amazing tools and he deserves something for his work.

Two, "stop with the feature mimic of 3rd Party and focusing on delivering a sound application", while I share this sentiment (I thought FPrime and JANUS were sufficient answers to user needs), many users keep insisting on integrated features rather than partner products. (How many times have you seen fluids mentioned? Or complaints about FiberFX instead of people buying Sasquatch?) This is a "no win" proposition for Newtek. Some people want everything and the kitchen sink when they buy the program. Others like having a low purchase price and an "a la carte" option as what plug ins you add based on your needs.

Basically, "you can please some of the people all of the time, or you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."

jasonwestmas
03-04-2012, 02:47 PM
Well that and stop with the feature mimic of 3rd Party and focusing on delivering a sound application. It's like wasted effort with solutions that already exist, while stepping on partners' toes while many other issues are not dealt with at all.
Sure that for integration sake there are stuff that is better to be developed in-house, but 3rd parties won't change the Core (pun intended) of the app; just pick the goodies the house gives them, expand it and cover any holes.

Anyway a cheer to monsieur Pontonnier.

That is definitely the case. Somethings can only be improved from inhouse.

Waves of light
03-04-2012, 03:01 PM
Haha... :)
But... this also brings concerns to me; I'm starting to understand why LW is percieved as an uncapable application; if people inside the LW-community doesn't know about all tools out there that makes LW very capable, how would anyone outside the LW-community even have a slightest idea about it?

I think that NewTek needs to rethink their marketing and make sure to include some of the key third party developers... especially thouse that have a lot of tools for free on their websites.

:)

I agree. IMO the LW learning curve isn't too steep. But that's just the base install. I think a lot of new users (even some older ones) don't realise it can do so much more, and a lot of the time for free.

But again, there is so much out there, how is anyone suppose to know all of them. I know there are available databases http://www.lwplugindb.com/ and http://lightwiki.net but what would be most useful, would be to have a NT definitive list... this one does this, this one does it for free, this one is the best. And have that as part of their marketing.

Ricky.

UnCommonGrafx
03-04-2012, 03:08 PM
But again, there is so much out there, how is anyone suppose to know all of them. I know there are available databases http://www.lwplugindb.com/ and http://lightwiki.net but what would be most useful, would be to have a NT definitive list... this one does this, this one does it for free, this one is the best. And have that as part of their marketing.

Ricky.

Even simpler: advertise that the free sites exist. That is to say, advertise the above address, for example.

Cageman
03-04-2012, 03:27 PM
Just to clarify here...

I wasn't suggesting that NewTek includes third party developer code into the application, but that they should start to show them off and get some attention that there are some very clever third party developers supporting LW.

As an example; do anyone here seriously believe that we would use 3DS Max for all our effectswork if it wasn't for third party plugins such as Rayfire and Thinking particles?

Food for thought...

:)

djwaterman
03-05-2012, 01:52 AM
You are totally right about this. Newtek's website (once it has been overhauled, re-designed and made cool) should have a section that actively points to and promotes the other key 3rd party plugins, Kray, DPkit, AElink, Extrader, shaderMiester and others. These are resources L'Waver's need, these are "Solutions", like you know, the solutions section on the current website that takes us to nothing solution-like at all.

Even the old site was better with all the little videos showing how different tools worked, providing a good look at the software for anyone curious.

coremi
03-05-2012, 02:37 AM
Somebody definitely needs to vocally support the hard core supporters (no pun intended)of LW and NT, no matter how underground they may seem to be. I know DPKit nodes aren't an exciting thing to talk about but obviously there is some power to them.

DPKIT is amazing, things almost imposible to do in lightwave:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRt1cccsfDg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dukYqzdihmo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2A2eR19abM&feature=related

MentalFish
03-05-2012, 06:47 AM
I would really like to see the DP tools be bought by NT, so we will be able to have these tools out of the box and not depend on the well being of one individual. What if, heaven forbid, Denis gets hit by a truck tomorrow? I feel it is too risky to be dependent on proprietary tools that are backed only by one person.

jasonwestmas
03-05-2012, 07:43 AM
DPKIT is amazing, things almost imposible to do in lightwave:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRt1cccsfDg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dukYqzdihmo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2A2eR19abM&feature=related

Dennis definitely knows his technical stuff but it's hard apparently to stabilize some of these nodes and some don't work with vpr (but that's getting greedy I know). Luckily other nodes are very stable and don't crash at all. I use the bump=>normal node all the time. Love that thing, should be native or not needed at all.

BTW, much of this instancing animation stuff should be possible in LW11 now but yeah, it's always nice to have options.

now.http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=bu9cf3BhsEk

Lightwolf
03-05-2012, 07:51 AM
What if, heaven forbid, Denis gets hit by a truck tomorrow?
Then there's at least two people that have copies of the source code... :)

Cheers,
Mike

MentalFish
03-06-2012, 02:12 AM
Then there's at least two people that have copies of the source code... :)

Cheers,
Mike

:) but are you allowed to do anything with it though? To my knowledge, when the plugins went "off the grid" a while, you were not at liberty of handing them out. Is there a clause that enables you to do so, in case of truck involvement?

Lightwolf
03-06-2012, 02:26 AM
Is there a clause that enables you to do so, in case of truck involvement?
Hehe, no. But if NT would distribute them then they'd not necessarily have one either.
And I think in a (very hypothetical) case like that, all bets would be off.

Cheers,
Mike

K-Dawg
03-06-2012, 03:34 AM
I can't speak for Denis, but I'm sure he trusts Mike and Marvin to not do anything with his code behind his back.

In a worst case scenario I'm sure Denis has everything settled with the two and trusts them enough what to do in that case.

I really appreciate all the work you 3 guys do.

Greetz

Lightwolf
03-06-2012, 03:42 AM
I can't speak for Denis, but I'm sure he trusts Mike and Marvin to not do anything with his code behind his back.
Otherwise we wouldn't have it. And yes, it's entirely trust based.

Heck, I even make sure to not look at the code unless it throws an error when compiling. Seriously, I do. :)

Cheers,
Mike

khan973
03-06-2012, 02:36 PM
You are totally right about this. Newtek's website (once it has been overhauled, re-designed and made cool) should have a section that actively points to and promotes the other key 3rd party plugins, Kray, DPkit, AElink, Extrader, shaderMiester and others. These are resources L'Waver's need, these are "Solutions", like you know, the solutions section on the current website that takes us to nothing solution-like at all.


I don't see why it's not the case...
3rd party put a software in the light.
Many people would then say hey I didn't know LW could do that, let's take a look at it.

Dexter2999
03-06-2012, 03:12 PM
Yes, back when they were doing newletter updates more regularly, I always thought the "Spotlight" could have been a rotation of user stories and 3rd party developments.