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silviotoledo
03-03-2012, 10:24 AM
Why is it so difficult to develop?


Imagine you have two bones posed as a V and connecting both we have a rubber strip wich is pin to both in both extremities.

So, if you rotate the bones the tips of the rubber will keep attached to both and will stretch.

Why the hell muscle bone does not have these both extremities with the option to pin to something? Simple like this.

silviotoledo
03-03-2012, 10:42 AM
Like this:

Just DRAW. Right Click on tip A and choose FIX related to ítem X and Right Click on tip B and choose FIX related to ítem Y. So it's done!

lertola2
03-03-2012, 09:48 PM
I am not a developer so I don't know how hard it would be to add an automatic muscle feature. I guess it is not that simple. I have been working on a project recently where I need to add muscles to an existing rig. The attached scene shows the process I have been using.

The muscle has four bones (shown in red in the example gif). The object has weight maps for each bone. This object is parented to one of the bones in the existing rig (the upper yellow bone). The short fat yellow bone marks the position that the end of the muscle needs to attach to. The lower red bone matches this items position and rotation using the 'same as item' feature on the motion options panel. The two middle bones target each other and the upper middle bone also has a pole item that keeps it from flipping around when the elbow is extended. Its a bit tedious to set up but it has been working well for me.

-Joe

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102330&stc=1&d=1330834590

RebelHill
03-04-2012, 04:37 AM
again... seriously?!?!

This takes a few seconds to setup using IK scale... you're asking (again) for something youve already got in LW.

probiner
03-04-2012, 05:04 AM
Nice Joe
Does skin slide over it? :p

silviotoledo
03-04-2012, 03:53 PM
Thanks for sharing Joe!

Hey RebelHil

I know it's possible, but I'd like to see an automated solution in one click. It would be less painfull for body character. Is there a way to record a macro or script to redo it where the mouse button is?

valu
03-04-2012, 04:12 PM
Hi Silvio,
It´s not that hard. I did that in 10 clics. All of it !

And if you want, you can make a Lscript for make it automatic !

silviotoledo
03-04-2012, 04:47 PM
Hi Valu

Thanks!

It works, but it uses 2 Bones an IK chain and a null. And it's also painfull to pose each of these elements. Too much for me.

Imagine I need to rig a character with 80 face muscles and a lot more on the body.

A one click muscle bone would help a lot.

RebelHill
03-04-2012, 05:12 PM
it uses 2 Bones an IK chain and a null... Too much for me.

No offence, silvio... reli.

But if that's too much for you, you may as well just forget trying to rig anything... ever, cos its going to be too much work.

m.d.
03-04-2012, 06:32 PM
to be fair....
rigging up a ton of muscle bones using that system would be a pain....compared to what messiah ect have in place.

it is a simple feature to request.....

valu
03-04-2012, 06:44 PM
Hi Valu

Thanks!

It works, but it uses 2 Bones an IK chain and a null. And it's also painfull to pose each of these elements. Too much for me.

Imagine I need to rig a character with 80 face muscles and a lot more on the body.

A one click muscle bone would help a lot.

The Nulls can be replaced by bonnes as well, and for animate, everything have to be hidden.
The animator don´t even know they are there. Just the main controls are visible.
I know it would be great to have a magic button, but it doesn´t .

valu
03-04-2012, 06:46 PM
By the way,
you can make this type of defformation with joints as well!

evenflcw
03-04-2012, 07:05 PM
Silvio (and any one else), would selecting two bones, then running a command, which generates a "musclebone rig" and connects the respective ends to the two selected bones centers, be quick enough?. Or do you require the "draw muscle bone automagically in the right size and shape and correct place without ever needing to tweak" tool (sorry for the sarcasm just want to emphasize the point in the next statement)? For sure a drawing tool would be neat, but you'll likely always be in need of tweaking, so the command wouldn't be much less effective. That could certainly be written! And a coder with enough time could probably figure out a way to accomodate multiple musclerigs so you wouldn't be limited to only that coders musclebonerig.

PS. Just out of curiosity and perhaps some incentive - would you pay >€30 for something like that (and perhaps abit extra to make the tweaking a smooth process)?

evenflcw
03-04-2012, 07:26 PM
Oh and btw this is a typical situation were being able to select items of different types at the same time would have helped coders and users alot. Nulls are the prefered locator! An optional workflow would have been to select a null at either end of a muscle rig, and a bone, and then run a command to attach on to the other. But this very simple and obvious workflow (which could often save us from picking items in long item lists) is not possible in LW for we can only select on type at a time (very likely for no good reason or limit on the architecture; but what do I know, alot of other things were a mess to). I'd urge you all to feature request or bump an existing request (I got one or two on here) to be able to select items of different types at the same time. It is a small change that opens up alot of doors and better workflows.

silviotoledo
03-05-2012, 05:30 AM
I did a quick simulation. See video attached.

30 Euros is nothing, but I would spend a lot of effort for international transfer. Actually I do not use paypal or international credicards.

Anyway I will be able to pay the price for a solution around June, but actually I'm also learning another packages that already have the solution done. So, not sure I will use lightwave in the near future it seems Lightwave will not advance in this area.

Blend shapes alone will not get the effect I desire for characters.


The process is:

1) Draw a bone ( or joint, or muscle bone )
2) Automatic creation of 2 locators in each tip
3) Right Click will open a dialog box where you can choose a list of itens to attach or just click on the iten ( in case of different ítens selection is possible )
4) Both bone tips will stretch if you move the attached object. You just need a VALUE for setup the amount of stretch.

Done :).No more headaches :)

silviotoledo
04-11-2012, 06:51 PM
I think this will clarify more why do I ask this dedicated tools:

http://youtu.be/O9xHICI2itQ


3D Max already have the same tool I asked for.
Here it's attached to a script to automate the face rig.

valu
04-11-2012, 08:56 PM
Fantastic !!!!!!!
And super Possible!
The corrective morphs can give you a little more work, but it´s possible ! ;)

oobievision
04-11-2012, 10:31 PM
damn that is sweet! Newtek Pls! 3rd party pls.