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View Full Version : Houdini 12 goes gold...



Netvudu
03-01-2012, 01:56 PM
As usual, itīs on its own FX-related league (http://bit.ly/xyuLzD)


Iīve been heavily into the beta testing program, so I already know this version rocks :D

Netvudu
03-02-2012, 07:37 AM
the apprentice is already there! It was from the very first time it went gold, actually

manholoz
03-02-2012, 08:50 AM
Nope, just downloaded the free Apprentice, and it's version 12.

Surrealist.
03-02-2012, 12:05 PM
Amazing releases in the last few weeks with LW, Modo and now this.

Those cloth tests look very impressive.

http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2126&Itemid=360

speismonqui
03-02-2012, 05:57 PM
not that amazing but Blender also upgraded from 2.61 to 2.62 :)
http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-262/

great times for us all.

erikals
03-03-2012, 11:04 AM
the price is impressive too...

feel a bit sorry for them, the marketing video is quite bad, they should hire Rob.

but yeap, some of the features kicks...

 

bazsa73
03-03-2012, 11:29 AM
the price is impressive too...

feel a bit sorry for them, the marketing video is quite bad, they should hire Rob.

but yeap, some of the features kicks...

 

That video is weird with those talking people, why did they do that?

Netvudu
03-03-2012, 01:15 PM
If you mean Side Effectīs video- Well itīs a different style always. You know, the thing there is they have a great sense of community because itīs also a small company. Most people that have been using Houdini for years, know on a first person basis people from the development team.

So, I do understand your crits on the video, and to a point I even share them, but just so that you understand me, it made me very happy to see some of those guys Iīve met personally, on my screen telling me about what is a really impressive version of Houdini (according to most user base, the best Houdini release for the last 4 or 5 versions).
IMHO they are so proud of it, that they want to appear and shout to the world how impressive it is what they just released.

It is indeed debateable if itīs a good marketing decision, but I donīt think it is going to hurt at all Houdiniīs market share. At the beta forums, Iīve seen the reaction of many people from the different studios to this version, and they are simply ecstasic about it...
Itīs a shame you have to know a bit of Houdini to realize some of the changes that are less flashy, but are indeed as important (if not more)as those featured there.

jasonwestmas
03-03-2012, 01:24 PM
I've been wanting to do some ragdoll stuff but have the rig break apart dynamically for limbs that can be removed and tumble around. Has anyone seen that done with Houdini or anywhere for that matter?

cagey5
03-03-2012, 01:36 PM
And on Linux too, so worth a play even if only as a starving artist.

Phil
03-03-2012, 04:17 PM
It's mildly irritating that the Apprentice HD version is now an annual license, rather than a permanent license. The pricing for that remains attractive, though. I just don't like expiring licenses. Yes, I still want the moon on a stick for the price of a Mars bar. :D

jasonwestmas
03-03-2012, 04:29 PM
It's mildly irritating that the Apprentice HD version is now an annual license, rather than a permanent license. The pricing for that remains attractive, though. I just don't like expiring licenses. Yes, I still want the moon on a stick for the price of a Mars bar. :D

Jeeezes yeah, I mean super duper amazing dynamics and rendering for a fraction of the cost, for any personal project that doesn't make money. That's awesome!

zarti
03-03-2012, 04:35 PM
..

.. , the marketing video is quite bad, ..

..


they arent RockStars , and even so .. They won an Oscar few weeks ago . ;)

Congratulations to Them for that and the 12th reincarnation !

caesar
03-03-2012, 05:28 PM
Just downloaded the free version, it's fun to see how fur rendering is still too slow, and the volumetrics (smoke, fire, explosion) are even faster.
Houdini don't have modeling, like messiah. Anyway the node nature of the app is interesting.
I like the composition capabilities too. Really impressed by the cloth and fluid.

rcallicotte
03-03-2012, 05:52 PM
I'm sorry, did you mean doesn't have modeling like Lightwave? Messiah has no modeling; it's all animation.

Anyway, what do you think of Houdini as a modeling / character animation package?



Just downloaded the free version, it's fun to see how fur rendering is still too slow, and the volumetrics (smoke, fire, explosion) are even faster.
Houdini don't have modeling, like messiah. Anyway the node nature of the app is interesting.
I like the composition capabilities too. Really impressed by the cloth and fluid.

wesleycorgi
03-03-2012, 05:58 PM
Amazing releases in the last few weeks with LW, Modo and now this.

I think my head is going to explode! Exciting times for a non-AD world.

geo_n
03-04-2012, 09:11 AM
Video is wierd. Like an infommercial selling exercise equipment. Even worse they are reading a whiteboard script.
But the software is really impressive. I wonder if we can import lw animations thru fbx,etc and use the fx capabilites in houdini. For apprentice version 99USD hd renders its very interesting to see if its possible to match cameras, animation and render out passes to combine with lw renders.

caesar
03-04-2012, 09:51 AM
Houdini don't have modeling
.

My bad, houdini HAS modeling...but not very intuitive at first :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mkjlb6QzV4o

geo_n
03-04-2012, 09:59 AM
http://www.sidefx.com/exchange/display.php?type=General
Lw, 3dmax, AE data exchange. Looking good to me, and 99usd.

probiner
03-04-2012, 10:02 AM
Video is weird for me mostly because the speakers don't look to you; but to the side and up. The style it is what it is. The goodies are there, maybe not presented too much in depth, but one easily gets the strengths of the package, so I think it's on target.


Hope to see non-AD growing and making breakthroughs (and not be bought :D)

caesar
03-04-2012, 10:28 AM
I'm sorry, did you mean doesn't have modeling like Lightwave? Messiah has no modeling; it's all animation.

Anyway, what do you think of Houdini as a modeling / character animation package?

Sorry, Houdini has modeling. In fact, it has polys, subd and nurbs.
I never worked with it ($price$) but I was reading some posts at cgtalk(http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=1013499):
that people likes it a lot for fx.
In Houdini you see muscles, auto riggers (biped, quadruped) and a lot of cool stuff. But it looks more a TD thing that a "one man show" like LW.
And talking about price, I prefer to learn fx and fluids in blender and composite with LW.

Surrealist.
03-06-2012, 10:40 PM
One thing though, did you catch the simulation times on those cloth examples? That is some serious resources (simulation times) you'll have to spend to get that quality.

Just follows my conclusions about cloth sims in general. Nothing good comes cheap. Just like rendering.

But if you need that kind of stuff and have the resources, looks like Houdini will step up to the challenge.

prometheus
03-07-2012, 02:21 AM
Video is wierd. Like an infommercial selling exercise equipment. Even worse they are reading a whiteboard script.
But the software is really impressive. I wonder if we can import lw animations thru fbx,etc and use the fx capabilites in houdini. For apprentice version 99USD hd renders its very interesting to see if its possible to match cameras, animation and render out passes to combine with lw renders.

I got my free apprentice version closed? donīt know if they changed policy and now the apprentice version costs some money? have to check.

Anyway before I could make a fluid sim (liquids) and export obj and mdd, and imported to Lightwave, that worked, unfortunatly I didnīt do it so often so I forgot the workflow, and since my apprentice version stopped working I wasnīt up to install a new one, I have the new Lightwave 11 to work on so..

I couldnīt find any fbx export thou in the apprentice version, that seem to have been left out.

Houdini is cool for a lot of stuff, but Lightwave is cooler for other stuff, and for the price range, Lightwave is for you personally and a studio, so get that and learn houdini but let the
studio worry about licenses for Houdini.

Michael

geo_n
03-07-2012, 04:19 AM
Anyway before I could make a fluid sim (liquids) and export obj and mdd, and imported to Lightwave, that worked,

That's good to hear. But its very hard to find tutorials for houdini. I wanted to use the fluids in houdini instead of blender because the basic work methology in blender is just vastly different. Hard to remember how to do it again every few months when another commercial needing fluids is needed. I wish lw had some basic fluids so that I wouldn't have to go out of lw for projects that are usually just beer commercials with small liquid effects.

prometheus
03-07-2012, 07:15 AM
That's good to hear. But its very hard to find tutorials for houdini. I wanted to use the fluids in houdini instead of blender because the basic work methology in blender is just vastly different. Hard to remember how to do it again every few months when another commercial needing fluids is needed. I wish lw had some basic fluids so that I wouldn't have to go out of lw for projects that are usually just beer commercials with small liquid effects.

I think they have some tutes covering a lot..
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1875&Itemid=262

what they do not have is export to lightwave pipeline tutorial.

Michael

jasonwestmas
03-07-2012, 07:57 AM
If you can cache out an object sequence, you can use that in Lightwave. Motion blur is a different story though.

prometheus
03-07-2012, 08:03 AM
If you can cache out an object sequence, you can use that in Lightwave. Motion blur is a different story though.

Depends on scene, but for exporting liquid fluids, mdd baking and export to lightwave should work, at least it did.. and motion blur should work on that too.
Theres an mdd export node in there somewhere, just tab and type mdd, then Itīs a matter of putting it in right in the network, I think someone made a very fast little movie clip of that somewhere, have to check at home if I can find it.

Michael

prometheus
03-07-2012, 08:10 AM
uhhmm..found a video here...just a basic mdd export of a simple animation thou...
http://www.screencast.com/users/elam/folders/Default/media/f7a14368-be98-4c01-868d-58225acd91fc

I tested it on some break up stuff a long time ago in this thread.
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=91711

Might look a little different in newer Houdini versions thou.

Michael

jasonwestmas
03-07-2012, 08:12 AM
Yeah I think MDD would work for some effects like Rigid and soft dynamics. Plus motion blur could be applied to that easily enough.

But for real fluids (that may splash) I really don't know how you can use point cache for that if it's a point cloud based sim. I've been studying up a little on the subject lately. =)

Thanks for the vid links btw.

Celshader
03-07-2012, 07:40 PM
But for real fluids (that may splash) I really don't know how you can use point cache for that if it's a point cloud based sim. I've been studying up a little on the subject lately. =)

I have not yet tried this, but a colleague suggested that I try using Next Limit's plug-ins to export particles in the RealFlow *.bin particle format in order to load them into another package. He meant that I should use this technique to export Maya particles to LightWave, but it could work for Houdini as well.

prometheus
03-08-2012, 07:34 AM
Neither Houdini apprentice free or Houdini apprentice HD for 99$ per year allows for fbx export, only import..keep that in mind.

Michael

Netvudu
03-08-2012, 01:26 PM
Mdd is definitely a no-go because it canīt store a cache when the number of points changes from frame to frame (99% of fluid simulations). Itīs a good format for exporting rigid body dynamics though...

Jen, I tried myself the Realflow trick a few months ago and it does work. I had a number of headaches related to Realflowīs plugin for Lightwave, with different plugin versions causing different problems.

The .bin format should work flawlessly, though.
I went a bit further and exported the fluid mesh from Houdini as an obj geometry sequence, and that had its own set of problems as I mentioned above. I donīt understand why Lightwave hates geometry sequences so much. That should be adressed very soon if any serious effects work is going to be done in Lightwave.
If you follow my path and want to import a Houdini fluid mesh using Realflowīs plugin, remember to rename the mesh surface to what the plugin always uses as a surface name (I donīt remember the exact surface name right now).

Of course, bin format retains velocity, but a fluid mesh does not, and that will bite you when going for motion blur. Inside Houdini you can do whatever you want with velocity. The problem is the .obj format doesnīt retain that information.

On the plus side, if you know what you are doing, Houdini "meshing" tools are vastly superior to Realflow mesher.

I donīt know if Alembic will accept a variable number of points...that would rock.

jasonwestmas
03-08-2012, 01:45 PM
I had quite a bit ofsuccess with object sequences in LW. No motion vectors, but it works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ5Q2tDAV1Q&context=C4e4a3afADvjVQa1PpcFN_wL7dgl7izhd9Eno4ZvNo XMhjdqNiXgo=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv8pllZxRvM&context=C4d809d8ADvjVQa1PpcFN_wL7dgl7izoxCTiidP2_a ljowNoEtZZ4=

Or maybe you are talking about something else Netvudu?



Thanks for the suggestions. =)

Netvudu
03-08-2012, 02:31 PM
I havenīt checked that video yet Jason. Itīs pretty cool. I have followed that same route myself in the past. (only instead of using the Il_Save transformed Sequence from Layout, I used Il_Batch Edit from Modeler which allows to convert a folder of objects to lwo but itīs pretty much the same method.

The problem with this method (and please, correct me if Iīm wrong) is that you are applying the surface in Modeler to everything. Thatīs the "trick" you are using for being able to texture all objects from the sequence at the same time.
This means, the moment you change your surface in Layout, if you scrub without saving your objects again from Modeler you will loose your new surface settings. This makes shading quite sluggish and cumbersome.

The advantage of using Realflowīs Mesh sequence reader is that it updates automagically the surface to all the other objects (as long as you respect the surface name, as I pointed above) because what you are shading is a reference surface that gets copied to the current mesh surface every frame, so you donīt loose anything.

This feature shoud be on Lightwaveīs object sequencer by default, otherwise its almost useless.

jasonwestmas
03-08-2012, 02:42 PM
Thanks for responding. =)Right, if you don't do a "save all objects" in modeler you will loose those surfaces in layout. What is sluggish about it exactly? The rendering time? The process is quite direct I think. In part 2 of the video I go through how you simply load 100 LWO files at once and then edit by scene in the surface editor. Then load the water surface onto all hundred objects in that "scene group." They are grouped together because all their surface names are the same.

So I don't find it useless at all, just that the Real flow surfacing is even better of course.

Netvudu
03-08-2012, 02:45 PM
well, ...do you know the polygon count for hi resolution fluids? try loading 200 objects with about 2 million polys each into Modeler and...you get the idea...

jasonwestmas
03-08-2012, 02:51 PM
haha, well that's waaaay out of my league anyway. :D I just wanted some good collisions for something simple.

jasonwestmas
03-10-2012, 08:28 AM
well, ...do you know the polygon count for hi resolution fluids? try loading 200 objects with about 2 million polys each into Modeler and...you get the idea...

I suppose you mean something this complex, but using Houdini. =)

http://www.mootzoid.com/wb/pages/softimagexsi/empolygonizer3.php

Celshader
03-10-2012, 09:16 AM
well, ...do you know the polygon count for hi resolution fluids? try loading 200 objects with about 2 million polys each into Modeler and...you get the idea...

Been there. :D The RealFlow/LW9.0beta whitewater splash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5bpyaF2tvY) going over the cargo ship in The Guardian used RealFlow-generated *.lwo meshes that weighed in at 500MB+ each on the network drive. These meshes took 3GB of RAM to load and an additional 2GB of RAM to render. I haven't looked at those meshes since 2006, but I think they were 3 million polys each.

I wrote a Python script to edit Speed-endomorph errors so that I wouldn't have to edit those wayward points by hand in Modeler.

jasonwestmas
03-10-2012, 09:35 AM
Been there. :D The RealFlow/LW9.0beta whitewater splash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5bpyaF2tvY) going over the cargo ship in The Guardian used RealFlow-generated *.lwo meshes that weighed in at 500MB+ each on the network drive. These meshes took 3GB of RAM to load and an additional 2GB of RAM to render. I haven't looked at those meshes since 2006, but I think they were 3 million polys each.

I wrote a Python script to edit Speed-endomorph errors so that I wouldn't have to edit those wayward points by hand in Modeler.

Yeah wow, like I said, waaay out of my league. I'd love to do that with large masses/creatures emerging out of a mound of sand, but I guess that's more about using millions and millions of particle points.

Netvudu
03-12-2012, 08:41 PM
The thing, Jason, is that as soon as you need any close-up of a realistic liquid, you are going to be moving around that kind of detail, unfortunately. It sounds like a lot of polys, but itīs actually not that hard to end up with such meshes.

Myself, Iīm having a lot of fun with H12 :D

H12 Pyro (http://vimeo.com/38406595)