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View Full Version : Just upgraded to 11 from 9, new with VPR, Is this possible?



sami
02-22-2012, 08:49 PM
Haven't used VPR much before since I've been using 9.6.1 and now that I have 11 and am trying it in complex scenes I'm having a bit of trouble.

I'm been trying VPR with a Quadro FX 4800 so it's not a crappy graphics card.

My problem is (the nature of VPR) that it gets so pixelated (but moves smoothly) when I rotate and navigate the viewport that I lose track of where I am in the scene until the render catches up and by then I've overshot where I want to be viewing. Ideally I'd like to stay in VPR mode and not just use it for lighting changes, but also to "navigate" a render to get a good idea without actual rendering.

My question is, I think this would be solved if when moving, or rotating or zooming, if the super coarse VPR pixelation could be dimmed during the actual move with a full wireframes overlay (like in Hidden Line Wireframe mode) displayed on top of the dimmed, pixelated preview render. Then once you let go of the mouse/navigation, it goes back to chunky preview rendering, undimming the pixels and the wireframes could then disappear - kind of like how bounding boxes appear when you rotate when your vertices setting is too low for your model.

Does LW do this? And if not, I think this is a good candidate for the wishlist. Seems easy to combine render mode views in the viewports and would make things easier regardless of video card.

thoughts anyone?

Philbert
02-22-2012, 09:17 PM
I just don't rotate my viewport quite as fast when using VPR. You can turn on Open GL Overlay which will show the grid, lights, gizmo, etc on top of the VPR if that helps you. That's in the little drop down next to the "VPR" dropdown.

Edit: Oh right, you can also turn on Open GL Wireframe in the same spot which will show the wireframe of your selected object in VPR

http://content.screencast.com/users/philnolan3d/folders/Jing/media/d43bc9b3-f132-49b3-b331-a30885039585/2012-02-22_2324.png

sami
02-22-2012, 09:20 PM
That's awesome, thanks. Plus (dont know if this is new) it seems near "Open GL Overlay" there is an "Open GL Wireframes" which does exactly what I ask (mostly). It was there all along. Appreciate the tip as I get used to 11... :)

Philbert
02-22-2012, 09:26 PM
No it was there in LW 10 as well, I just forgot about it since I don't use it.

dwburman
02-22-2012, 11:54 PM
Also, VPR is a version of the standard LightWave renderer, so it doesn't use the GPU at all.

biliousfrog
02-23-2012, 05:34 AM
Also the Quadro 4800 is more-or-less a Geforce GTX 260 with a different driver so it's not exactly a GPU powerhouse anyway even if VPR was GPU aware.

sami
02-23-2012, 08:58 AM
Also the Quadro 4800 is more-or-less a Geforce GTX 260 with a different driver so it's not exactly a GPU powerhouse anyway even if VPR was GPU aware.

Since you seem to know, I'll ask... That was for a corp pc, but I'm thinking of upgrading my Mac Pro desktop with a new graphics card, but as far as I can tell there haven't been any new super powerful Mac nvidia cards in awhile. I use win7 bootcamp for LW, but would ideally like the card to work on Mac as well. I'm assuming the card has to be made for Mac with EFI to work?

Any suggestions on super powerful hopefully CUDA cards for a Mac Pro?

biliousfrog
02-23-2012, 09:51 AM
No idea for a Mac I'm afraid, they are quite limited afaik. For a Windows machine I'd always suggest a geforce because you get a much better card for your cash but it might not be that simple with a Mac because of the smaller choice.

Andy Meyer
02-23-2012, 03:52 PM
sami, the only difference between pc and mac gpu cards are modified bios... and price ;-)
imho there are ways to change the bios of a gpu card to make it osx compatible. i dont know how to do, maybe you can google.

sami
02-23-2012, 04:00 PM
hi andy,

I knew it was the EFI differences, but I always assumed there was extra/different chip for that vs Bios and all other hardware on the card the same. It didn't even occur to me that a windows card might be hackable into making it EFI compatible for Mac... I'll google and see if that's feasible - if so that opens up the choices... :)

Sensei
02-23-2012, 04:23 PM
thoughts anyone?

Invest in at least Core i7 2700K, if you have slower machine..
Find your current cpu on http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
and divide result of 2700K by your cpu result, and you will know how faster render you will get from it (350 usd investment + mobo, so it's even less than LW upgrade price).

JeffrySG
02-23-2012, 05:02 PM
Many times I'll have one window with VPR on and another window with the same camera view set to wireframe.

Andy Meyer
02-23-2012, 05:25 PM
hi andy,

I knew it was the EFI differences, but I always assumed there was extra/different chip for that vs Bios and all other hardware on the card the same. It didn't even occur to me that a windows card might be hackable into making it EFI compatible for Mac... I'll google and see if that's feasible - if so that opens up the choices... :)

i think you have to flash the firmware.
maybe OSX Lion can use some pc gpu without flashing an osx efi...

jasonwestmas
02-23-2012, 06:07 PM
9 to 11. . .should give you a good jolt. I've been warming up so not such a shock;)

sami
02-23-2012, 06:47 PM
Invest in at least Core i7 2700K, if you have slower machine..
Find your current cpu on http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
and divide result of 2700K by your cpu result, and you will know how faster render you will get from it (350 usd investment + mobo, so it's even less than LW upgrade price).

I'm pretty happy with my dual 8-core Xeon mac - works excellent as 2 machines (3 if you count my shared VM - win7, snow leop etc) for hd editing, motion tracking, kills as DAW and seems great for 3D. Though if LW performance was significantly improved I might consider that. This is one machine that hasn't felt like I've grown out of its power after a year.

So assuming I have a dual Xeon then I just take their benchmark # and x 2 then divide by the i7 and it seems I'd only get a 10% rendering improvement?

sami
02-23-2012, 06:49 PM
Many times I'll have one window with VPR on and another window with the same camera view set to wireframe.

Thanks, this is another good workflow idea that didn't initially seem obvious to me-- but it kills playback to have another VPR window open (at least on the flocking examples ;) )

sami
02-23-2012, 06:51 PM
9 to 11. . .should give you a good jolt. I've been warming up so not such a shock;)

Actually so far (a week) it doesn't seem too painful of a jolt. Some things seem nicer and more mature/usable like the asking to change content directories - etc. Seems more polished than 9.6.1 and I'm fairly certain that ain't just the darker UI :p

dwburman
02-23-2012, 11:20 PM
I flashed a PC Radeon 5770 that was the same specs as the Apple version but half the price.

It was a bit of a pain, though. It would've been easier if I had a PC with a PCI express slot when I did it. The thing that took me the longest time to figure out was just how to boot into dos and have some device mounted that I could save the original bios to. I couldn't get a USB drive to mount and the MacPro has no floppy drive (remember those?) connectors. I ended up putting an old IDE drive in the optical drive bay just so I could save the card's original bios.

It's definitely something you want to research thoroughly beforehand. I don't think I could have done it if other people hadn't figured it out and posted instructions and utilities for making a custom bios.

biliousfrog
02-24-2012, 02:34 AM
RE: dual Xeon vs i7

I've got a dual Xeon BOXX workstation and a homebuilt i7 one which is now my primary work machine. When rendering the i7 is only slightly faster but in all single threaded applications it is much faster, it is quieter, it was much cheaper and it is more than twice as efficient.

prometheus
02-25-2012, 08:14 AM
Moving objects,lights and cameras in a second window and have the vpr window open for preview rendering only, is probably the best way to work with vpr, faster without lagging from using the vpr viewport directly and more reliable.

Michael

sami
02-27-2012, 03:02 AM
I flashed a PC Radeon 5770 that was the same specs as the Apple version but half the price.

It was a bit of a pain, though. It would've been easier if I had a PC with a PCI express slot when I did it. The thing that took me the longest time to figure out was just how to boot into dos and have some device mounted that I could save the original bios to. I couldn't get a USB drive to mount and the MacPro has no floppy drive (remember those?) connectors. I ended up putting an old IDE drive in the optical drive bay just so I could save the card's original bios.

It's definitely something you want to research thoroughly beforehand. I don't think I could have done it if other people hadn't figured it out and posted instructions and utilities for making a custom bios.

thanks, I'll have a google on it - but I'm kinda keen on Nvidia - I only use ATI for my home theater pc not for anything I make money on ;-) I haven't had good luck with ATI drivers in the past - but I'm sure things are different now. Are there any good *new* NVidia cards that can be flashed for Mac Pros?

sami
02-27-2012, 03:05 AM
RE: dual Xeon vs i7

I've got a dual Xeon BOXX workstation and a homebuilt i7 one which is now my primary work machine. When rendering the i7 is only slightly faster but in all single threaded applications it is much faster, it is quieter, it was much cheaper and it is more than twice as efficient.

thanks for the comparison info. :) what do you mean by efficient? I'm not that concerned about cheaper (I've already got the machine awhile ago and it paid for itself in a week so don't really care about that.)

sami
02-27-2012, 03:05 AM
Moving objects,lights and cameras in a second window and have the vpr window open for preview rendering only, is probably the best way to work with vpr, faster without lagging from using the vpr viewport directly and more reliable.

Michael

Dumb question, but what do you mean by 2nd window? Can you undock viewports in LW11?

wrench
02-27-2012, 05:57 AM
No, but you can show more than one viewport in Layout - F3 and F4 are your friends...

B

prometheus
02-27-2012, 09:32 AM
No, but you can show more than one viewport in Layout - F3 and F4 are your friends...

B

exactly or check preferences and select different viewports.

You can actually undock a preview window in display settings and use camera settings when creating VPR animations to match exactly your camera instead of the viewport size wich you cant control with exact proportions, but this is for preview vpr saving, not interactive.

Im all for a complementary VPR float panel thou in the future, like fprime or viper, as a complement that is, I think Modo has that workflow too, so You could choose whatever you like to work with, in viewports or
with a floating panel to view preview render and have all other viewports intact for working with placement, movement etc.

Michael

biliousfrog
02-27-2012, 09:57 AM
Efficient - less power, less running costs, less heat.