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View Full Version : Give ideas for a new modeler LScript



jagoca
10-20-2003, 12:28 PM
Hi!

Since seems not to be any free tool which allows transformations (move, rotate, scale) along a used defined reference system, I've started writing mine (this has begun to become a bad habit)

What I have in mind is a tool in which the transform axis will be defined by three points (in a background layer). The line from the first to the second will be the x axis. The y axis is defined by a line which crosses the third point and is normal to the x axis. Finally, z axis will be defined from the cross product of the previous axis.

In Autocad there was something like this for defining local axis, I think.

Within the tool, you'll be able to choose what kind of transformation you want (translation, rotation, scaling) along with its center (selection, world origin or Local Axis origin), so there's only a single script doing all the tasks. It will be fake-interactive and bla, bla, bla...

However, before continuing writing, I want to know if anyone has any particular idea / suggestion about this, such as alternative ways of defining the transfrom axis (poly normals or so...). Perhaps the LScript could switch beetwen different modes for that.

Please, add all your suggestions. We could add this post to a new
section, such as:
Idiots who make free LScripts at user request!
(Just kidding :D, since I'm sure my paypal will burn when releasing it :eek: )

The good news are that it would be released as .ls, since there's not going to be any three-weeks-days+nights-to-simply-imagine-it routines like JettoBevel has ;)

Bye!

Castius
10-20-2003, 01:44 PM
I started work on something along this these lines jagoca, but for layout. I wanted to make something that could use a reference object to scatter or move along there surface. I knew it would be difficult and I wasn't sure I could do it realtime so I was going to start with the scatter part. Say you select three different types of blades of grass and have it scatter them all over the surface or based on a weight map if possible. Something like that. This is all way over my head but I wanted to try anyway.

Scott

Ps you should jump on one of the irc channels.

Chingis
10-20-2003, 03:57 PM
Oooooo.... I like Idiots that make free Lscripts. How 'bout just remaking the Rove tool (which is practically useless). Make it so when you activate the tool there are handles centered around the selected points/polygons. Handles like Layout's or Maya's. Most importantly you can grab the handles in the perspective view. You can't rotate in perspective view with the Rove tool. Plus the handles are really hard to grab and they're annoying.
Even better (I don't know if Lscript can do this) but have it so there is a Move, rotate, and scale mode and you can just hold down, for example, 1- for x-axis only movement, 2- for Y only, & 3 for Z axis. and then 4 to move along the point normal (Constraint Shortcuts). This is how Hash Animation Master works and it rules. You can practically model entirely in the perspective view. If you made this I will gladly lick the bottom of your feet. :)
Ovbiously you can't use 1,2 ,&3 - Modeler won't let you, but you could use z,x,c, or something. Don't make something where you have to make BG geometry. THat's too much work - I guess you could make some other plugin that did that, but it wouldn't get used near as much as the thing I just mentioned.

Good luck

omeone
10-20-2003, 04:14 PM
Hi jacoga,

I'd suggest having a look at how Solidworks achieves this, it's by far the best I've seen so far, unfortunately I dont work for the company I used it at anymore, but I'll try to give a description - and maybe one of the guys here who have access can post a quick screenie...

1. Select any face (poly).
2. Hit the "magic" button.

Here's how I guess LW might interpret it...
The program automatically uses the face's normal as its new Y-axis, if any 3 of the poly's points form a right-angle it uses them to define the X and Z axii - if a right angle cannot be found, then selects any two connected points from the poly to define the X axis.

3. work as normal
4. Hit reset button the get back to world coordinates.

The advantage of this workflow is that ACS's dont have to be saved and recalled, as it's very quick and simple to define them on the fly from any poly.

Does LW allow to to mess with the UCS? or do you have to rotate the whole object temporarily, I think this is how c-plane works.?

Anyway, there's me tuppence and thanks for all the great sharing so far :)

Castius
10-20-2003, 05:02 PM
Chingis your absolutely right if it's a simple axis change creating geometry in the background is annoying. If at all possible it would be nice if in the numeric panel it had a gizmo that you could just rotate with inputs for HPB so you can quickly set values if you want. If you could save presets that would be excellent. An added bonus would be an option to create a large polygon in the next available layer with that orientation. No idea what that could be used for but Iím sure someone would find one.

hehehe I really do have a problem thinking in small ideas.

Scott

evilemil
10-21-2003, 10:10 AM
The idea is very cool, because it gives a little bit of the functionality of Grid planes like in Max (which are quite good in max).
I missed an easy way to move a point on a plane, in perspective view especially. perhaps i missed sth. :confused:

the "Polygon in the background"-method works fine, as you only have to copy and paste the polygon, that you want to use as your new grid plane into another layer and switch it to background (x and y axis might be inconsitent, but that would not suck too much).

I work with max a lot and find the handles useful, but i do not think they a necessary in Lightwave, as the average LW USer is used to model with CTRL keys.
I would rather keep it simple. The LW way.

My co-worker was talking about a method in Softimage (the old one), to define a Rotation center by selecting two vertices and then pressing a button. He said this worked very well (I think it is like RotateAA). perhaps you could integrate this select three points-put them in BG layer-make a polygon-switch back to original layer part of you script. would make the setup more easy

Librarian
10-21-2003, 12:01 PM
I would like to have a shape/path extrude method as Max offers. Select a splinepath, select the morphshape and the position of it, then select a second shape and the position and so on. You should be able to alter the position afterwards.

jagoca
10-21-2003, 12:25 PM
hey!

If we continue growing the wish list, it's going to be easier programming a new 3D app!

What about LayWay, the first app which includes more than 25 options for making point transformations!

And we could start again with all these nice LayWay vs. Maya or LayWay vs. XSI, which I really enjoy :D and why not, LayWay vs. Lightwave

Bye, thanks for all the suggestions!

Yog
10-21-2003, 03:45 PM
Oops, came to this thread late.

Sounds like what you are after is a sort of construction plane simplar to the User Co-ordinate System (UCS) in Autocad where you define your own temporary grid.

There's actually a free plug-in for LW called C-Plane (http://www.ats-3d.com/cplane/cplane.htm)
Pick any flat polygon on your model and run the plug-in, it'll make the polygon the X-Y plane and rotate everythin on that layer to match the new grid. Not only that but it will also move everything so that the original lies on the 0.00 Y co-ordinate, very useful if you want to build off that poly as you can use the Rest-On-Ground feature. When finished just run the plug-in again and it will rotate/move everything back to it's original position.

As always if you like the plug-in please thank the author.

BTW - Thanks Jagoca, been making use of your plug-ins already :D

j3st3r
10-22-2003, 01:56 AM
Hey, that local axis script would be most welcome. I miss it. C-plane is quiet useful, but many times I need to rescale object along their original axis, but in modeller it is impossible...Only with plenty of angle measuring, rotation, scale back rotation, etc.

The second one would be a Maya-like (and Max like) SewUV, where the separate UV parts would Sewed and Moved along the selected pointpairs...I tried to make it, but I run into deadend

takkun
10-22-2003, 04:15 AM
Here's an idea: a drag tool that moves a point by it's normal, the normal is calculated by the polygons that are connected to the point. And to make the workflow quick, it needs to work without selecting points or polygon ahead of time like the other normal move plugins out there. I'd be willing to give someone 50 bucks and a beer if they made it for me. :)

j3st3r
10-22-2003, 04:41 AM
Check out Ikeda`s Powertools. I`m pretty sure it does this, I use it daily basis. di2Translate with right click moves the current selection along it`s normal

riki
10-22-2003, 07:13 AM
How about a selection tool that does it all. Meaning the ability to select by any of the following user defined criteria. ie by surface, by normals, by direction, random, by surface names with wildcard, select same kind, radial, band etc etc etc.

Librarian
10-22-2003, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by j3st3r
Check out Ikeda`s Powertools. I`m pretty sure it does this, I use it daily basis. di2Translate with right click moves the current selection along it`s normal
Are you sure ? It doesn`t work for me. Right click moves in normal direction and scales the current selection. But I don`t want to scale.

SLAYER
10-22-2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by omeone
Hi jacoga,

I'd suggest having a look at how Solidworks achieves this, it's by far the best I've seen so far, unfortunately I dont work for the company I used it at anymore, but I'll try to give a description - and maybe one of the guys here who have access can post a quick screenie...

1. Select any face (poly).
2. Hit the "magic" button.

Here's how I guess LW might interpret it...
The program automatically uses the face's normal as its new Y-axis, if any 3 of the poly's points form a right-angle it uses them to define the X and Z axii - if a right angle cannot be found, then selects any two connected points from the poly to define the X axis.

3. work as normal
4. Hit reset button the get back to world coordinates.

The advantage of this workflow is that ACS's dont have to be saved and recalled, as it's very quick and simple to define them on the fly from any poly.

Does LW allow to to mess with the UCS? or do you have to rotate the whole object temporarily, I think this is how c-plane works.?

Anyway, there's me tuppence and thanks for all the great sharing so far :)


Couldn't agree more.
Check my thread from awhile back asking for something along these lines:

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?threadid=8490

jagoca
10-22-2003, 04:10 PM
I have been thinking about all these approaches, and I find a great limitation: the fact is that you need to rewrite all the transform functions, which means you won't be able to use the gradient capabilities, the drag or magnet tools and lots, lots more...

I had starting sketching a LScript in which you could save different references (defined different ways...) in a preset library, with options to move, rotate and scale along them. But only this: pure move, rotate and scaling

When thinking about the new tool, I forgot how much I use all those features (gradients and so...), so any solution won't be powerful enough to justify the effort.

So, perhaps the best is C-Plane, since Lightwave tools can't be tweaked to work from a different reference, and rewriting the whole bunch is nearly impossible...

Not sure if "JettoTransform" will become reality :(

mix
10-23-2003, 03:35 AM
I think (FI's_MRSonBGP) does what your trying to do, do a seach at flay.com, or heres a link to the authors site http://www2.ocn.ne.jp/~fis_junk/

BTW, Your jetto tools rock!! fillet is great.:D

jagoca
10-23-2003, 04:34 AM
Yes, there's much people for whom JettoFillet is a great tool.

What I can't understant is how there was not any previous tool doing this. In fact, when releasing it I was pretty sure that a similar tool should exist, but seems doesn't :eek: When modeling "industrial stuff" I use it continuously, can't imagine doing this cutting and pasting arcs and circles

But I personally prefer JettoBevel!

Valter
10-23-2003, 12:07 PM
maybe slide edgeloop(s) (points selected) along edge