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View Full Version : Shadow Catcher Node is Damn Sexy



OnlineRender
02-20-2012, 02:48 AM
whom ever coded that feature , well done! i urge you to stop blowing stuff up and have a look ,its so simple and so slick its unreal ...

Lewis
02-20-2012, 03:04 AM
Yep Antti did very nice job on it, just few more features fixes to remove limitation of shadows in alpha and it's golden and dead easy to use :).

Traveler
02-20-2012, 04:31 AM
Surely such statements cant exist without some kind of proof ;)

(in other words I dont have 11 and want to see whats cool about it)

prometheus
02-20-2012, 05:23 AM
Just started to work with the shadow caster yesterday..perhaps not one of those huge features such as bullet or instancing, but indeed makes life much much easier in the 3d world now, and I love it.

For those not knowing how to.

You add the shadow caster as a material node to the groundplane or geometry you want to cast shadow on..


just plugit in and your set to go...fast and easy.:thumbsup:

Michael

raw-m
02-20-2012, 06:37 AM
I tried it briefly once but didn't have much success (I was in a rush so will revisit). Looking throughout he manual, the example goes through steps to use the Real Lens Camera. Does it work with the others?

prometheus
02-20-2012, 06:44 AM
I tried it briefly once but didn't have much success (I was in a rush so will revisit). Looking throughout he manual, the example goes through steps to use the Real Lens Camera. Does it work with the others?

Dead easy when you know how to, well have only tested with perspective camera since thatīs my default.

you of course need to setup up your background image, add it with textured environment, and use front projection mode.

1.Go to the surface editor, select your groundplaneīs surface or whatever you want i to cast shadow on.
2. activate node, wich you might have missed(the little checkbox next to the node)
3. enter the node
4. add Material/shadowcaster
5. plug the shadowcaster material in to the surface material input...thats it!!
use vpr to see it cast shadow, put a decent ufo or something in there.
you might wanīt to have a large groundplane to cover it decently too.

But really, download the trial content from newtek under lw 11 trial.
There you have a shadowcaster scene, open it and study it...Itīs the dinosaur scene.

Michael

raw-m
02-20-2012, 06:49 AM
Cheers Michael. Haven't yet downloaded the additional content stuff, was a little too eager to play...!

OnlineRender
02-20-2012, 07:35 AM
take into consideration , ok bullet is great , some workflow issues " i think " but I am idiot so what do I know however you can combine this with the shadow node , for example last night I took a picture of dinning room table and combined a glass shatter with the shadow node switched on , looked awesome .

prometheus
02-20-2012, 10:27 AM
I need to correct som info...

I was earlier stating ..use projection front, wich actually donīt work it seems, I used planar mode when using textured environment.

You could as easy just select the image in compositing/backdrop image.


But indeed how great these interactive tools are enhancing the workflow, you can see how the shadow caster applies the dome light instantly in VPR and correct lighting and shadows with less iterations, and also Newly introduced lensflares makes it easier to work with space engines, thou there seem to bee a missing glow behind object for vpr lensflares.

I hope/wish for Newtek to enhance with motion blur and glow to in some updates of the VPR.

mov sample...Bad case of compositing:) no motion blur, the guys are static, no sound but it can fly:) vpr render straight to avi and exported to h264 mov codec...

Michael

raw-m
02-20-2012, 10:35 AM
Haha :thumbsup:

caesar
02-20-2012, 10:47 AM
mov sample...Bad case of compositing:) no motion blur, the guys are static, no sound but it can fly:) vpr render straight to avi and exported to h264 mov codec...

Michael

Great example. And it's a shadow And reflection catcher node, a really good tool.

Matt
02-20-2012, 11:46 AM
One I did quickly using Lewis "Automobile Modelling God" Blazencic's Camaro model.

Matt
02-20-2012, 11:50 AM
I tried it briefly once but didn't have much success (I was in a rush so will revisit). Looking throughout he manual, the example goes through steps to use the Real Lens Camera. Does it work with the others?

It works with the others (not sure about Classic, I never use it).

I just used Real Lens in that tutorial.

raw-m
02-20-2012, 02:35 PM
Thanks for that clearing that up, Matt.

Has anyone tried getting this out of LW with an alpha, ready for comping?

Lewis
02-20-2012, 04:07 PM
One I did quickly using Lewis "Automobile Modelling God" Blazencic's Camaro model.

Hehe you put wrong car in picture or Camaro is now with horse logo ;) :D

netstile123
02-20-2012, 09:50 PM
and the shadow of the man has the sun on the other side. car has the dark side of the shadow on the wrong end. But looks great

Matt
02-20-2012, 10:15 PM
Hehe you put wrong car in picture or Camaro is now with horse logo ;) :D

What an idiot I am! I didn't even notice, I created one with yours and a different one for the content so we could give the scene away!

Okay, THIS is Lewis' model!

Matt
02-20-2012, 10:18 PM
and the shadow of the man has the sun on the other side. car has the dark side of the shadow on the wrong end. But looks great

That's his reflection! ;)

jasonwestmas
03-15-2012, 08:04 PM
So I have a head that has been rendered already and put into the background plate. I've been trying to catch the shadows for FiberFX from a dome light but I keep getting these strange black, hard shapes under the neck in Raytraced, Interpolated and even point shadows. Are volumetric shadows not supported or is there a way to smooth that out?

Edit: okay this has nothing to do with volumetric shadows, it's just that this node does not work on a head. =P Lame-o

jasonwestmas
03-16-2012, 10:40 AM
Yeah the shadow catcher is just using transparency to make the non-shadow invisible to the camera I guess. So yeah the alpha won't change with shadow catcher. I guess it's only to be used for comping shadows to the background image.

But my problem is deeper than this, it seems there is this inherent problem with catching the shadows in the first place because the shadow catcher result looks awfully similar to the shadow pass buffer. Looks wrong and quite ugly.

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=126694

exr trader to the rescue. . .hopefully

jasonwestmas
03-16-2012, 11:40 AM
Well the Adaptive Sampling was the culprit in the case of the Shadow pass buffer. Didn't resolve my shadow catcher issue though.

Richard Hebert
07-22-2012, 01:10 PM
I'm not getting shadow catcher to work with radiosity, only with CG lights. Is this the norm?

Richard

prometheus
07-22-2012, 01:17 PM
what scene are you working with, try the shadowcaster trex in garden in the lightwave 11 content.

should work in all radiosity modes.

At least in build 2238, havent tested the service pack releases.
Michael

Sensei
07-22-2012, 01:56 PM
Hand made Shadow Catcher in couple seconds..

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105706&stc=1&d=1342986290

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105709&stc=1&d=1342986909

Sensei
07-22-2012, 02:02 PM
Different way - same result.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105710&stc=1&d=1342987325

Richard Hebert
07-22-2012, 04:35 PM
CG lights work fine with the shadow catcher node in the T_Rex scene but I'm not getting anything from radiosity when I use an HDRI instead of the cg light.

jwiede
07-25-2012, 03:53 AM
One I did quickly using Lewis "Automobile Modelling God" Blazencic's Camaro model.
I wish that car was the price of a stock Camaro... :devil:

raw-m
07-25-2012, 04:46 AM
Quick question, Sensei - what's happening when you connect the colour output of the Lambert node into the Gradient input?

Sensei
07-25-2012, 04:50 AM
Gradient is remapping one range of values to second range.

In above case, I was simply converting shadow to 0% Transparency, and not shadow to 100% Transparency (so color from behind was used).

Richard Hebert
07-25-2012, 06:49 AM
Hi sensei,

Does the shadow catcher node work with only radiosity illumination? Or does that fall under the heading of 'radiosity pass'. Sorry if this is an elemental question.

Richard

Tobian
07-25-2012, 10:36 AM
Sensei that method doesn't really work for a number of reasons.. It only really works if you have a very strong, bright, key light that isn't too soft, and doesn't go low on the horizon. It messes with the profile of soft shaodws. It also means all you get is black shadows, and you don't get any colour information from light bounce from the object etc. Show those setups with an area light or a dome light....

Shadow catcher is not perfect, but it's better than this method! I would like to see is the shadow having reflected colour from radiosity: For example a red ball would have some red in it's shadow, as well as colour from the environment. That stuff is damn tricky to do, I know, I've tried :)

Sensei
07-25-2012, 11:36 AM
I didn't say it's perfect in the all circumstances.. But it has potential, because you can tweak nodes and gradients.. :)

Where did you see "shadow reflected from radiosity" in built-in Shadow Catcher material?
Make screen-shot..

Shadow Catcher is implemented the same way as Lambert - it's using IlluminateSample() or IlluminateSampleNormal() function, which is calling call-back for every light sample. It's just differently interpreting result got from Light plugin class..

Radiosity is just solid RGB color value for plugins. It's not so detailed as regular lights.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105759&stc=1&d=1343237563

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105760&stc=1&d=1343237640

Tobian
07-25-2012, 11:45 AM
Oh that's a nice and easy setup Sensei... Or I could use the shadow catcher node :p

Still, having to tweak the gradient is the downfall, it would break in animations, when the light moves, and not everyone is going to be able to do a setup like that I barely understand what you did!

I didn't say shadow catcher could do that. I said I would like to see that... It's just also a flaw of doing that method to fake shadow-catching.

corsa
07-27-2012, 06:26 PM
Hi sensei,

Does the shadow catcher node work with only radiosity illumination? Or does that fall under the heading of 'radiosity pass'. Sorry if this is an elemental question.

Richard

I was trying shadow catcher for the first time tonight, and I can't seem to get it to work with radiosity-only illumination, so I'm guessing the answer is "no".... maybe LW 11.5 will change that?

Richard Hebert
07-27-2012, 07:09 PM
The more I think about it... that may be considered to be a radiosity pass function more than a shadow capture scenario. It would be nice if it could be used for ground shadows in the future though. BTW, thanks for the confirmation.

Richard

Mr Rid
07-28-2012, 07:06 PM
Is yet another disappointing feature since it does not do radiosity SC. I need to separate GI shadows regularly for FX work. Otherwise I cant see using the SC node since compositing is more controllable in a compositing app (not Layout), and where it is better to have shadows in a separate pass.

I think I read that the sIBL thing may allow GI SC(?), but I cant find LW docs for it. http://www.hdrlabs.com/sibl/software.html

But this ought to be a simple, LW feature.

erikals
07-28-2012, 08:14 PM
maybe,
http://forums.newtek.com/showpost.php?p=1252375&postcount=3

yep,
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=99979

Tobian
07-29-2012, 04:41 AM
no - SIBL just does the same tricks that sensei showed above - contrast enhanced diffuse plugged into transparency - clever but suffers from the limitations I mentioned above - and in that regard the SC node is superior.

Mr Rid
07-29-2012, 03:56 PM
I also need to be able to separate cast, receive and self radiosity shadows, for the same reason you need this with trace shadows and compositing.

Also need transparency to work with the surface that is catching, like if using say a transparency map.

Then we have a 'sexy' shadow catching tool.

ncr100
08-12-2012, 02:39 PM
One issue: Volumetric Fog is being caught too.

Effects > Volumetrics > Fog. I get the ground plane showing up. I just wanted to obscure my object to kind of match the bg image.

Is there a way to hide the ground plane, disregarding Fog?

COBRASoft
08-12-2012, 05:25 PM
I still haven't figured out how I can have the SC node to do shadow and reflection at the same time :(. I really must be something wrong here...

prometheus
08-13-2012, 01:17 AM
One issue: Volumetric Fog is being caught too.

Effects > Volumetrics > Fog. I get the ground plane showing up. I just wanted to obscure my object to kind of match the bg image.

Is there a way to hide the ground plane, disregarding Fog?

Perhaps in the ground plane object properties/render panel..use unaffected by fog.

Michael

dee
08-13-2012, 02:47 AM
I still haven't figured out how I can have the SC node to do shadow and reflection at the same time :(. I really must be something wrong here...

Works fine here.

ncr100
08-15-2012, 12:47 AM
Perhaps in the ground plane object properties/render panel..use unaffected by fog.

Michael

Holy Moley Batman!

That does the trick! Thank you Michael,
Nick