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tcoursey
02-16-2012, 07:47 AM
Ok LW 11 is out, and BAM they put the Trial out at the same time.

For those that have been playing with the new features what can you point us newbies (w 11) to, to help jump start us.

In particular the Bullet stuff. I added some Hard FX to objects but is that where "bullet" is now, or is it a new system somewhere?

Thanks.

OnlineRender
02-16-2012, 07:57 AM
Dyn tab ...enable simple ad pie ,I don't get the difficulty with dyn its pretty obv and if all else fails button bash,I don't think lw default work with bullet

tcoursey
02-16-2012, 08:07 AM
Dyn tab ...enable simple ad pie ,I don't get the difficulty with dyn its pretty obv and if all else fails button bash,I don't think lw default work with bullet

Online render, are you using 11 yet? No dynamics are not difficult, yes you enable and calculate! That was not my question. My question was is the Bullet Dynamics (yes LW works with it, it's all over the 11 marketing) the new underlying system to Dynamics, therefore I just use dynamics as I always have and the underlying calculations are based on the new Bullet system. Or does one need to go to a new area to enable bullet with 11.

wrench
02-16-2012, 08:22 AM
Add a cube to your scene, add a sphere (using the Modeler Tools tab).
Make sure the sphere is some way above the cube.
Make the cube static in the FX Tools tab, make the Sphere Rigid.
Hit Play.

B

50one
02-16-2012, 08:25 AM
...add second sphere if you really wanna take it to the next level...:D



Sorry, couldn't resist:) happy to see it released, playing with the trial atm.:thumbsup:

wrench
02-16-2012, 08:31 AM
I was thinking of the swiftest demonstration possible :D Of course, even faster would be to load any of the Bullet test scenes in the content and see how they work...

B

tcoursey
02-16-2012, 09:02 AM
ah yes, and the bullet dynamics are working! I didn't think by what I was seeing under the typical Dynamics that Bullet was the underlying system.

Thanks for helping me find the obvious! :D

OnlineRender
02-16-2012, 11:02 AM
Newbie ...:) I think people over complicate lw bullet dynimacs thinking its extremely difficult when in fact its a breeze to use maybe because I use blender I find the new dyn a complete dream and its super easy to use ,now enable instances on the obj and go sick

tcoursey
02-16-2012, 11:08 AM
Newbie ...:) I think people over complicate lw bullet dynimacs thinking its extremely difficult when in fact its a breeze to use maybe because I use blender I find the new dyn a complete dream and its super easy to use ,now enable instances on the obj and go sick

Newbie to 11 maybe, but 10+ years with LW. Just didn't see the new tab, went straight for the dynamics engine as it was before.

Just a new animal.

OnlineRender
02-16-2012, 11:40 AM
remember you have vorroni shatter in modeler also ,this will break up the object and then import it back into layout then run dyn and instancing :) and you can shatter away , its good for small detail , if your like me and like using lw old enternal dynimacs you can save out the motion file and then re-import it and combine it with bullet to give you that extra control over the final image ,let your imagination go wild .

HenrikSkoglund
02-16-2012, 11:48 AM
Does the bullet dynamics system handle rigid bodies only or is it cloth as well?

Chuck
02-16-2012, 12:24 PM
Folks,

We are indeed doing a soft-launch test of our public systems in order to prepare for the public launch of LightWave 11. There are things to be worked on so not everything is fully smooth at the moment. We would appreciate if any discussion of this would be kept to the NewTek forums, and let's keep it low key and in the family. I will be monitoring discussions and passing along the feedback as needed to various departments.

Let's save the excitement for the full release and formal announcement.

And for those who have purchased LightWave 11 from the online shop or who have downloaded the LightWave 11 Trial Edition, thank you! :)

OnlineRender
02-16-2012, 02:44 PM
ma bad mate the discovery / new build its under fx tab .... not that obv :)

tcoursey
02-16-2012, 02:51 PM
no worries, it's easy to get "use" to things and forget your first time! I downloaded the trial content and activated the Trial (rather than discovery) edition. I'm rockin' now. Just need boss to fork over the cash to get me hopin'. lol.

Back to work now....

50one
02-16-2012, 02:54 PM
Playing with the dynamics and used the scene supplied with trial content, now when changed the settings a 'little bit' and the initial velocity of the ball, see attached pics, The ball is ignoring the wall, even tho it's static?How come?

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/9884/boxug.jpg
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8529/ballz.jpg

OnlineRender
02-16-2012, 02:57 PM
damn you even stretched my screen rez , small images mate ,that and I am mobile teethering give a thought for poor people like me on crap bandwidth :) change the wall to rigid/parts :P

jasonwestmas
02-16-2012, 03:01 PM
ma bad mate the discovery / new build its under fx tab .... not that obv :)

Just to elaborate, it's called FX Tools and it's out in broad daylight in the main tabs on the top of the screen, not to be confused with the FX tab in properties.

OnlineRender
02-16-2012, 03:09 PM
Just to elaborate, it's called FX Tools and it's out in broad daylight in the main tabs on the top of the screen, not to be confused with the FX tab in properties.

true that ...

littlewaves
02-16-2012, 04:31 PM
is there bullet softbody?

I'm sure I saw a demo of this

jasonwestmas
02-16-2012, 05:06 PM
is there bullet softbody?

I'm sure I saw a demo of this

no, that was a taste of things to come but bullet cloth and softbody is not included in LW11.

XswampyX
02-16-2012, 05:30 PM
.... but you can fake it with a shattered object and a high glue/angle/distance setting. :) The ring on the right is a clone of the ring on the left, but with different glue settings.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/SoftBodyProxy.jpg

http://youtu.be/3o0oG4uYQ5w

jasonwestmas
02-16-2012, 06:07 PM
OHHHH! Pretty cool I had not thought of that. I wonder if that could be used with meta link or some junk.

Edit: well of course it can, via mdd with metalink. BTW the collisions look super good, I'm actually looking forward to this bullet stuff all of a sudden. We've been without decent collisions for so long, so jiggly.

littlewaves
02-17-2012, 03:18 AM
hardbody and softbody Bullet Dynamics

from page 3 of Lightwave 11 Read Me.pdf

hopefully that means it's forthcoming before LW12 but I won't count on it!

erikals
02-17-2012, 06:04 AM
me neither, i would expect Bullet Cloth in LW12 though...

Matt
02-17-2012, 10:32 AM
from page 3 of Lightwave 11 Read Me.pdf

hopefully that means it's forthcoming before LW12 but I won't count on it!

;)

-FP-
02-17-2012, 10:41 AM
Soft bodies were working in the beta last year.
Why not in the final?

XswampyX
02-17-2012, 12:31 PM
They were removed because they weren't ready. Fair play I say.

Seems the proxy soft-bodies don't have any self collision. :-(

http://youtu.be/hSlmM5-X4Lg

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/LWSB.jpg

jasonwestmas
02-17-2012, 01:06 PM
hehehehehe, is that all, the self collisions? HeII of a start, I love that.

OnlineRender
02-17-2012, 01:06 PM
im getting strange results , like clipping threw the obj and for some reason Layout vanishes and comes back randomly hangs then goes again ! it could be the mac issue but im not felling it,


i found if you fracture inside layout and have modeler open it kills calculation down..

OnlineRender
02-17-2012, 01:24 PM
Tip hit the play don't scrub the timeline when simulating ...is there away to cache the dyn

jasonwestmas
02-17-2012, 01:30 PM
Tip hit the play don't scrub the timeline when simulating ...is there away to cache the dyn

mdd scan doesn't work?

OnlineRender
02-17-2012, 01:39 PM
I've just started messing around what i will say is render engine is rapid and instances is superb ,just teething problems but that's more me than the software

XswampyX
02-17-2012, 06:00 PM
hehehehehe, is that all, the self collisions? HeII of a start, I love that.

Glad you liked it. :)

I don't think people realise what a major step up this is for lightwave, we have become so blazay in such a short time..... could we do anything like this in LW 3 months ago?

jasonwestmas
02-17-2012, 06:01 PM
Glad you liked it. :)

I don't think people realise what a major step up this is for lightwave, we have become so blazay in such a short time..... could we do anything like this in LW 3 months ago?

Hey I'm glad you are looking at it like that. I think it's awesome how smooth the simulation looks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is something special after all these years to have this in Lightwave.

wrench
02-17-2012, 06:03 PM
A better tip, don't hit play, shift the timeline to the end of the scene and LightWave will calculate the entire cache in one go rather than playing and then pausing while it calculates the next bit, then playing again, and pausing, etc. (it's in the manual, it must be true, it was me wot wrote it)

B

littlewaves
02-18-2012, 04:37 AM
;)

that's pretty much the response I was trying to extract with my wilfully pessimistic post.

I still won't count on it but I might now dare to hope!

cagey5
02-18-2012, 12:37 PM
Jenga tower with a little twist. This wasn't possible in the pre-release version.

http://youtu.be/vAdU69t6Y9E

jasonwestmas
02-18-2012, 12:55 PM
Very cool Cagey5. What would happen in previous versions of LW11?

cagey5
02-18-2012, 01:08 PM
You couldn't have the ball follow a path and still fracture on impact.

[EDIT] Just to emphasise the path

http://youtu.be/9AHF_dIHCPE

Hieron
02-18-2012, 05:12 PM
that's pretty much the response I was trying to extract with my wilfully pessimistic post.

I still won't count on it but I might now dare to hope!

I'll hope with ya :)
Very interested in the softbody dynamics...

Do appreciate though that they kept it out of the release for now, if it is clearly not quite ready, better to save us all the time and headache.

Looking forward to it.

cagey5
02-19-2012, 03:58 PM
One more quick one showing targeted fracture point, useful for bullet holes etc, and bullet bullet time or bullet time bullet whichever you prefer..

http://youtu.be/PD77BV4o1E8

wrench
02-19-2012, 05:28 PM
Hey cagey5,

Why are you rendering in fields? Haven't seen that for a loooong time :D

B

lwanmtr
02-19-2012, 05:32 PM
I love the Bullet Dynamics....Only thing I havent yet figured out is how to get to cars to crash into each other and go boom......

jasonwestmas
02-19-2012, 06:10 PM
I love the Bullet Dynamics....Only thing I havent yet figured out is how to get to cars to crash into each other and go boom......

I think we need a native edge opener/unwelder for more control over where they fractures are happening. Or maybe I've overlooked other possibilities.

lwanmtr
02-19-2012, 07:16 PM
if you fracture in Modeler, you have more control. I though though weight maps could be used? Or am I missing something?

cagey5
02-19-2012, 07:18 PM
Yes, fracture in Modeler. But use background points to determine fracture points.

lwanmtr
02-19-2012, 07:23 PM
cant wait for the manual and some neat tutorials...hehe

jasonwestmas
02-20-2012, 08:32 AM
Yes, fracture in Modeler. But use background points to determine fracture points.

Hey that's not too bad then, gotta give that a try. Though I'm not really a fan of the background foreground methodology.

cagey5
02-20-2012, 08:40 AM
Yes. Works pretty well. It's what I used for the last example I posted. I generated the fracture points in the correct area for the ball impact using background points.

The bullet time is really easy to set up, whether in a field or not ..

wrench
02-20-2012, 10:39 AM
cant wait for the manual and some neat tutorials...hehe

You should have been able to download the LightWave 11 manual addendum at the same time (and place) as you got the software.

B

cagey5
02-20-2012, 12:12 PM
Apparently I've been rendering out with [email protected]&p codecs so hopefully this will be better all round. Bullet slo-mo this time.. and thanks to wrench for the heads-up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84QMmQu1-h0&feature=youtu.be

lwanmtr
02-20-2012, 02:19 PM
Yeah, got the addendum...but more is always better

OnlineRender
02-20-2012, 04:44 PM
glass smash http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKHgzC_ACgE I slowed it down at point of crack I should mask it but I am just testing

Andrewstopheles
02-21-2012, 08:19 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SefX74cn2xg&feature=youtu.be

lwanmtr
02-21-2012, 02:13 PM
My first vid to youtube with a quick lil bullet thing


http://youtu.be/3F7SQP7UK7w

cagey5
02-22-2012, 10:07 AM
I can't recall seeing it mentioned elsewhere, though it probably has been, anyhow you can always pause a bullet sim and save out the transformed object at that point.

OnlineRender
02-22-2012, 10:10 AM
thats what I was earlier on , if you swap and re-fracture the save trans object you can make large objects break down to a fine dust ,im doing that atm , 40 frames , slow need a plugin , away to search

bobakabob
02-22-2012, 12:35 PM
glass smash http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKHgzC_ACgE I slowed it down at point of crack I should mask it but I am just testing

OnlineRender, great work. As someone waiting to upgrade and as yet rtfm - but very much looking forward to it - can you explain how you set this scene up? From reading this thread there seem to be two kinds of fracture - one that is pre planned in Modeler by using background points and another that is automatic. Is this correct? Also how do you determine the trajectory of the projectile - is it simply just a couple of keyframes intersecting the target?

Cagey, Andrestopheles and lwanmetr, how do you set up the original objects that get blasted into rectangles? If they're made up of cloned arrays in Modeler, how does Bullet "know" they are separate parts?

cagey5
02-22-2012, 12:48 PM
snip .. how does Bullet "know" they are separate parts?

You just assign the object as being made up of 'parts' from the drop down menu. Then each group of connected polys will be treated as an individual part. So in my vid. the sphere had been pre-fractured into parts and the tower is made up of individual blocks. Key the sphere path and press play.. simples.

OnlineRender
02-22-2012, 12:55 PM
OnlineRender, great work. As someone waiting to upgrade and as yet rtfm - but very much looking forward to it - can you explain how you set this scene up? From reading this thread there seem to be two kinds of fracture - one that is pre planned in Modeler by using background points and another that is automatic. Is this correct? Also how do you determine the trajectory of the projectile - is it simply just a couple of keyframes intersecting the target?

Cagey, Andrestopheles and lwanmetr, how do you set up the original objects that get blasted into rectangles? If they're made up of cloned arrays in Modeler, how does Bullet "know" they are separate parts?

modeler has several options background foreground basicially uses them like the drill tool except it fractures the object "worse technical explination ever" :) or you have option (C) just fracture and select the cell "pieces " I spanked the glass upto 2000 I am doing another render atm , ill post later , several ways to calculate the trajectory Kinetic ie "energy/force" or just smash its with a static object ... you can also go inside Layout and fracture from there

honestly dynamics are so simple I can see a lot of people worried about there job!

silviotoledo
02-22-2012, 12:57 PM
If everything fractures at once the effect is unrealistic.

Why not fracture per contact and force transfer?

OnlineRender
02-22-2012, 01:00 PM
if your talking about the glass , the calculations are spot on regarding the dynamics its only on tv things smash slowly :) look at high fps of glass shatter the impact reverbs and just about instantly cracks the whole thing ....

but atm I have saved out the save transform of 30 frames , I intend to morph these in after effect creating a bullet time effect


EDIT

note you can save out the endomorph of the shatter this is excellent feature which goes un-noticed you can do a lot of smart tricks with it

bobakabob
02-22-2012, 01:49 PM
Cagey, OnlineRender, many thanks for the info. Say you wanted to break a sphere into cubes, you dice it up in Modeler... So does Fracture automatically create more outward facing polys for the internal sides of the cubes? Looking forward to more bullet demos, there's so much potential.

cagey5
02-22-2012, 01:53 PM
Yes. Fracture will create all the internal geometry to give discrete broken pieces.

So in the last vid. I posted, all the blue surface for the broken sphere was generated at the time of fracturing it in Modeler.

OnlineRender
02-22-2012, 05:41 PM
http://youtu.be/RIHHje1sNLM

jasonwestmas
02-22-2012, 05:43 PM
http://youtu.be/RIHHje1sNLM

hehe, missed a few frames.

OnlineRender
02-22-2012, 05:46 PM
dont think i did mate looking at comp atm , just choppy I think . that and I tweaked the gravity on and off during the smash so it kinda throws it

OnlineRender
02-22-2012, 05:51 PM
I think I know what point your a talking about , is the beginning of the glass entry , that's not missed frames its the refractive index causing the ball to look like its shifted a frame or 2 " if that is it ?"

Skonk
02-24-2012, 04:09 AM
Has anyone been able to adjust the settings to successfully stop the parts from moving around (jittering) when they should be settling down and stopping?

From a few tests I've done at the point when I would like the al the bits to be stationary they just continue to slowly slide about and move.

I've tweaked the deactivation time and speed thresholds but no matter what I change them to (tried from very small to very large numbers) they appear to have no effect at all.

Ricky Bobby
03-17-2012, 01:42 AM
Hi everyone, I'm pretty sure someone in this thread will be able to help me with this. I am currently trying to fracture a glass table, however, the fracture in the glass is visible from the start. How do you make the glass look seamless until it is impacted? Thanks a lot. :help:

lwanmtr
03-17-2012, 02:46 AM
Do you have the table starting active? if so, set the table to start asleep

Andy Meyer
03-17-2012, 03:51 AM
Hi everyone, I'm pretty sure someone in this thread will be able to help me with this. I am currently trying to fracture a glass table, however, the fracture in the glass is visible from the start. How do you make the glass look seamless until it is impacted? Thanks a lot. :help:

make two glass table objects in your scense. one none fractured, one fractured.
with object dissolve you can make these objects visible/invisible (object properties, render tab, object dissolve, make [E] envelope, use stepped key frames.
e.g. your fracture starts at frame 50:
none fractured object, object dissolve:
key frame 0 value 0 stepped, key frame 50 value 100 stepped.
fractured object, object dissolve:
key frame 0 value 100 stepped, key frame 50 value 0 stepped.

Ricky Bobby
03-17-2012, 10:43 AM
make two glass table objects in your scense. one none fractured, one fractured.
with object dissolve you can make these objects visible/invisible (object properties, render tab, object dissolve, make [E] envelope, use stepped key frames.
e.g. your fracture starts at frame 50:
none fractured object, object dissolve:
key frame 0 value 0 stepped, key frame 50 value 100 stepped.
fractured object, object dissolve:
key frame 0 value 100 stepped, key frame 50 value 0 stepped.

THANK. YOU. You're awesome.

XswampyX
03-17-2012, 11:00 AM
But how do you animate both with bullet?

Won't one table move the other table when you run the simulation?

http://youtu.be/R0djd2yrnSg

Use object sequence to swap the objects.

dwburman
03-17-2012, 01:04 PM
Use object sequence to swap the objects.

That gives me some ideas :devil: :D

Ricky Bobby
03-17-2012, 01:33 PM
But how do you animate both with bullet?

Won't one table move the other table when you run the simulation?

http://youtu.be/R0djd2yrnSg

Use object sequence to swap the objects.

This sounds awesome too, how exactly do I go about doing this? I see under Obejct Properties/Geometry that there is an "object replacement" section where I can choose Object Sequence. I don't understand how to use it though? Thanks again everyone!

XswampyX
03-17-2012, 02:12 PM
Like so....

Ricky Bobby
03-17-2012, 02:39 PM
Like so....

Really, really, appreciate your help. I'm about to leave for the weekend and will be back Sunday evening to learn from the object sequence you have given me. Thanks again, I'll post the results on Sunday! :thumbsup:

dwburman
03-17-2012, 11:24 PM
Well, it didn't work the way I had hoped, but I can see it being useful for swapping objects when the first break happens.

The quick way:
1) Save fractured and unfractured versions of your object. Name the unfractured version my_object_000.lwo and the fractured version with the same root name (in this case "my_object_"), but instead of 000, use the frame number for when the object needs to break. If the break happens at frame 38 then the file name would be my_object_038.lwo.

2) Load either one of the objects into Layout (not both of them) and go to the object properties panel. In the Object Replacement section, select Object Sequence from the dropdown menu.

That's all there is to it. When you play/render/calculate the timeline, my_object_000.lwo will be in the scene until frame 38 at which time it is replaced by my_object_038.lwo. If you need to change the time the object shatters, simply change the number in the file name to the new time.

jasonwestmas
03-18-2012, 09:31 AM
Well, it didn't work the way I had hoped, but I can see it being useful for swapping objects when the first break happens.

The quick way:
1) Save fractured and unfractured versions of your object. Name the unfractured version my_object_000.lwo and the fractured version with the same root name (in this case "my_object_"), but instead of 000, use the frame number for when the object needs to break. If the break happens at frame 38 then the file name would be my_object_038.lwo.

2) Load either one of the objects into Layout (not both of them) and go to the object properties panel. In the Object Replacement section, select Object Sequence from the dropdown menu.

That's all there is to it. When you play/render/calculate the timeline, my_object_000.lwo will be in the scene until frame 38 at which time it is replaced by my_object_038.lwo. If you need to change the time the object shatters, simply change the number in the file name to the new time.

Yeah I have to try this with a character that looses a limb now. The only difference is that after the breakage frame, I then need to bring in another character (without the limb) to replace the original one on the CA-rig and continue animating. :D

Ricky Bobby
03-19-2012, 08:17 PM
Well, it didn't work the way I had hoped, but I can see it being useful for swapping objects when the first break happens.

The quick way:
1) Save fractured and unfractured versions of your object. Name the unfractured version my_object_000.lwo and the fractured version with the same root name (in this case "my_object_"), but instead of 000, use the frame number for when the object needs to break. If the break happens at frame 38 then the file name would be my_object_038.lwo.

2) Load either one of the objects into Layout (not both of them) and go to the object properties panel. In the Object Replacement section, select Object Sequence from the dropdown menu.

That's all there is to it. When you play/render/calculate the timeline, my_object_000.lwo will be in the scene until frame 38 at which time it is replaced by my_object_038.lwo. If you need to change the time the object shatters, simply change the number in the file name to the new time.

Wow, you just explained it perfectly. After opening the object sequence example the kind gentleman posted for me to look at, I still didn't understand how he picked the object to be replaced in the object sequence options. The file naming makes complete sense now and this is tremendously helpful. Thanks very much to the both of you!

dwburman
03-19-2012, 11:06 PM
You're welcome! That naming trick works for images as well. :)

Ricky Bobby
03-20-2012, 01:20 AM
Ok so the object sequence is working great! I have run into another problem now with fracturing though :(. If you look at the video I have attached, you can notice after the glass breaks, there are obvious misplaced points that happened when I fractured it in modeler I presume. These just kind of stay visible and don't break. So is this happening because of a bad/wrong fracture? If so, how can I fix/avoid this problem in the future? Thanks again guys.

Ricky Bobby
03-20-2012, 01:23 AM
Also, I know the glue for the glass needs to be turned up, I was just making sure that the glue wasn't a factor in the messed up points that won't go away.

Ricky Bobby
03-20-2012, 01:41 AM
And to make it easier so you don't have to download the clip if you don't want to... :angel:

jasonwestmas
03-20-2012, 09:07 AM
How dare you break your nice table. :D