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MUCUS
02-14-2012, 04:04 AM
Hi there,

I'm currently modeling a sofa with massive quilting, and well, at the end of
modeling, when I have to clone and bend quilting (around 500.000 polys), working become really frustrating: a simple translation take like 10 secondes to update.

I'm working on XP64, modeler10.1 64b with 8gig of ram: is there a way to improve modeler performance with hardware?

Thank you! :)

Andrewstopheles
02-15-2012, 08:39 AM
It has been shown to be the case that turning smoothing on for all of your surfaces (even at 1 degrees) can greatly increase the interaction speed in Modeler.
I hope that helps!

MarcusM
02-15-2012, 09:22 AM
About performance - check polygon selection with Shift+] (}) on object close even to 30k polygons. Modeler in 10.1 is so fast but Modeler in 11 pre release is extremely slow...

MarcusM
02-16-2012, 08:14 AM
Please explain me why it is so slow... i love this polygon selection method. Now i check in LW 11 full ver. it's the same "speed" :|

Sensei
02-16-2012, 08:45 AM
Shift-] ? You mean expand selection?
First of all it's analyzing what geometry is connected to already selected geometry.
Second- selecting routine is buggy since ever and refresh after every single operation, so expanding selection of 1000 polygons will cause 1000+ refreshing routines.. It's quite clearly visible in viewports how they're refreshed one by one polygons.

I don't see any speed difference between Modeler v10.1 and v11.0 while using Shift-] command. Same object (160k polys). Same Display Options settings. Same speed.

Andrewstopheles
02-16-2012, 09:28 AM
Hmm I subdivided a box in Modeler to 98000 polys, ran fraps. With 4 viewports open in woreframe mode I tumbled the geomety in perspective view and it was quite responsive, FRAPS reported frame rates around 20fps.
When I translate the geometry there was a slight lag, perhaps half a second.
Smoothing my surfaces had no effect, probably because I was in wireframe mode.
I switched to textured wire and got the same responsiveness.
There are apparently better performing modelers out there in terms of tumbling or translating polys, but I am quite content with the performance I am getting.

biliousfrog
02-16-2012, 09:53 AM
I've been having really poor performance in 10.1 using Win7, i7 920, 12gb RAM, GTX460.

The model which has caused the most issues is quite heavy (approx. 100k polys) but split over several layers. I've worked with similar size models in 9.6 for a long time with no problems, in fact this model was started in 9.6.

I can select a tool, such as move, and have to wait for 10 seconds before the tool responds, same thing when dropping the tool, switching between polys and points...

Sensei
02-16-2012, 09:56 AM
[...]

I can select a tool, such as move, and have to wait for 10 seconds before the tool responds, same thing when dropping the tool, switching between polys and points...

Are you using Textured/Textured Wired in perspective viewport?

MarcusM
02-16-2012, 10:55 AM
Thanks for reply.

This must be some settings problem. I check few Modeler versions 9.3, 9.6, 10.1, 11 pre, 11 full, 32bit and 64bit and what is for sure - slow modeler when selecting Crtl+] (for example) using only one core, fast modeler using all cores and i can hear sound from pc that counting. GL display options was the same.

If somebody find reason please share info.

Sensei
02-16-2012, 11:00 AM
Modeler is not using more than 1 core.

MarcusM
02-16-2012, 11:19 AM
Sensei, You are also programmer and for sure You know what writing. But I see CPU usage diagrams and it's true what I wrote. Im just looking for explanation and have hope im not alone with this strange problem :)

JonW
02-16-2012, 01:42 PM
Modeler is not using more than 1 core.

Because it uses 1 core you have to throw everything at it so there are no other bottlenecks. Fast CPU, SSD, Fast graphics card. Turn off Hyper Threading. (my box with 2 W5580 CPUs & with HT on has 16 cores but sadly Modeler uses only 1 of them)

Also overclock CPU if you can. Turn off a viewport or 2 when they are not really necessary. Divide object into sections, eg have a simpler shape for cushions & then use that shape in a separate object to make the real cushion.

Danner
02-16-2012, 03:57 PM
Shading method and all the other open GL settings have a big impact too. Turn off reflections, transparency, lower the texture resolution, turn off mip mapping. Also see how many polygons are subpatched, that can send the real polycount through the roof.

biliousfrog
02-20-2012, 10:16 AM
Are you using Textured/Textured Wired in perspective viewport?

Yes but no textures applied, I only add textures after the modelling is done. I did try other shading methods too and it made zero difference.

biliousfrog
02-20-2012, 10:19 AM
Marcus, out of curiosity, are you using multiple displays? I bought LW10.1 at the same time as buying a 2nd monitor and wondered whether the two were linked...although I have disabled the secondary with no difference in speed.

MarcusM
02-20-2012, 11:18 AM
Yes I using three displays but this have no matter in my opinion. Shading method don't make any difference. Setting... but I check everything. Tomorrow I prepare some simply test to show how serious it is and everybody can check yourself. I will write specification and test few modelers. For now I still using Modeler 10.1 because 11 is so slow in my case that I can't work on it. (slow i mean basic operations on objects like for example selecting and deleting polygons)

And just for information - before install full LW 11 I delete config and other stuff from LW 11 prerelease.

MarcusM
02-21-2012, 04:19 AM
1. Screenshot: just ball with 100 sides and 100 segments, in test I use Shift+] to select polygons from top to bottom. I measure time with stopper.

2. Screenshot:
LightWave 11.0 64 bit
Time - 2min 42 sec !?

3. Screenshot:
Lightwave 10.1 64 bit
Time - 0 min 6 sec

PC specification:

Windows 7 Proffesional
Intel Core i7 950 - 3.07 GHz
ASUS SABERTOOTH X58
16 GB RAM Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600MHz
Ati Radeon HD 5870 2GB GDDR5

I invite to test and find reason this "speed" :thumbsup:

UnCommonGrafx
02-21-2012, 04:27 AM
It's like someone forgot to "close the gate to the screen", showing each point being selected/"passed through the gate".
Painful.

JonW
02-21-2012, 05:24 AM
LW11 Graphics card on right GTX280 & 9500 GT on left, & Modeler was only using 1 core (I wish this could be improved)

Sphere 199 x 1000 segments, 198803 points selected approx. 3 seconds. Polys was 3 seconds as well (you can see the 2 selection blips on core 6)

100 x 100 segments was instant.

Sensei
02-21-2012, 05:33 AM
Jon, Shift-] is Expand Selection, not Select Connected..

On mine desktop selecting entire sphere took in LW v11.0, 20 seconds..
Select Connected - immediate.

After switching to single perspective viewport mode, and wireframe, it's 16 seconds.

JonW
02-21-2012, 05:46 AM
Sphere 100 x 100, If I hold down "Shift-]" it takes 12 seconds in total to keep selecting the next row of polys until it reaches the other end of the sphere. Points about 8 seconds.

Sensei
02-21-2012, 05:47 AM
Legacy OpenGL v11.0 build 2214, also 20 seconds..

MarcusM
02-21-2012, 05:47 AM
Can you test older LW to compare?

JonW
02-21-2012, 05:54 AM
LW 10.1

Polys 7 seconds
Points 5 seconds

Sensei
02-21-2012, 06:03 AM
Unlike you Marcus, I don't use any GUI expanding skin software, so it's basic WinXP theme..
While I am holding Shift-] there is visible blinking of menus, whole window with buttons is refreshed. So, if there is something intercepting drawing, and drawing skin on top of GUI, it might have impact. So, try disabling it, quit if possible, leave just basic Windows drawing.

JonW
02-21-2012, 06:06 AM
I have always run XP with the basic desktop, I'm just not interested in eye candy!

MarcusM
02-21-2012, 06:21 AM
Thanks for interest.

I change to classic Windows theme, restart, felt like back in future to Windows 98 :p but it don't help.

Just for info: LW 11.0 Build 2238 (Win64) 31-Jan-2012 - it's should be only one version for now.

D-Lab
02-21-2012, 11:33 AM
Hi guys,

Here, LightWave 11 Trial, Win XP 32 : between 5 and 6 seconds to select all the polys in quad views (3 in wireframe and persp in texture).

I've got an ATI HD6850 and at first try, opengl in modeler 11 was very jerky, then I downloaded the lastest drivers and set them to performance mode, what a change !!

Tchao

ncr100
02-21-2012, 10:34 PM
Maybe you need "SGI RAM". ;)

Lewis
02-22-2012, 12:50 AM
LWmodeler sadly always (in last 10 years) was (and still is) slow with Editing hi-poly meshes (not tumbling, but editing). Through years NT changed some openGL defaults so some users think it got speed up because they used old 9.x series with "wrong" openGL settings while now they are set to fastest ones for openGL (MTS shaders + VBO....).

In11 they speedup multiple layers usage, some background layer refresh and similar tweaks but actual geometry editing is still dog slow when poly-count rises.

Matt
02-22-2012, 01:20 AM
1. Screenshot: just ball with 100 sides and 100 segments, in test I use Shift+] to select polygons from top to bottom. I measure time with stopper.

2. Screenshot:
LightWave 11.0 64 bit
Time - 2min 42 sec !?

3. Screenshot:
Lightwave 10.1 64 bit
Time - 0 min 6 sec

PC specification:

Windows 7 Proffesional
Intel Core i7 950 - 3.07 GHz
ASUS SABERTOOTH X58
16 GB RAM Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600MHz
Ati Radeon HD 5870 2GB GDDR5

I invite to test and find reason this "speed" :thumbsup:

nVidia GTX 470:

I couldn't measure the time because it was *instant* for me.

Wondering whether this is an ATI issue? Anyone with nVidia cards experiencing this? Because I'm not seeing it here.

MarcusM
02-22-2012, 02:43 AM
I did test now with Radeon SAPPHIRE HD 7970 3GB DDR5 384 bit (drivers from box) and also any changes, Modeler 11.0 is still slow.

But when I reinstaling drivers and check with default windows dispaly drivers, Modeler LW 11.0 was fast like LW 10.1 (6 seconds) :) Soon i check with GeForce GTX 590.

:thumbsup:

Sensei
02-22-2012, 04:37 AM
I couldn't measure the time because it was *instant* for me.


Shift-] (press and hold Expand Selection)

NOT ]
(Don't use Select Connected)

LightWave since EVER, in procedure to select point/edge/polygon is refreshing display.

EDError (*pntSelect) (EDStateRef, LWPntID, int);
EDError (*edgeSelect) (EDStateRef, LWEdgeID, int);
EDError (*polSelect) (EDStateRef, LWPolID, int);

So when plugin has to select 1 million polygons, there will be called 1 million refreshing requests.
It's visibile how window and GUI is blinking.
Functions should just set dirty flag/append polygon to dirty list, and refresh should be delayed to the End() procedure, not done directly inside of above LWMeshDataEdit functions.

Write example code where you have polyScan() then in LWMeshDataEdit you're using polSelect(), and use with object with 1 million+ polygons..
or write to me on Skype, and I will give you SelectionPresetManager plugin.

Lewis
02-22-2012, 05:41 AM
Shift-] (press and hold Expand Selection)

NOT ]
(Don't use Select Connected)


heheh but "]" IS select connected, selection expand is "}", at leas ton my keyboard. So that might be where confusion lies. Also different keyboard layouts have different placement for } and ] so maybe is best to use tool name (sel connected vs sell expand/grow) instead shortcuts ;).

erikals
02-22-2012, 07:06 AM
maybe you need "sgi ram". ;)
LoL :]
 

MarcusM
02-22-2012, 07:44 AM
I need PC with turbo button like long time ago :)

JonW
02-24-2012, 01:41 PM
No, this is what you need!

A whole stack of E5 CPUs, unfortunately they are not available yet to us mere mortals!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/17/appro_tsukuba_supercomputer/

lwanmtr
02-24-2012, 08:03 PM
Well, lets hope that 11.1 or something they will address Modeler's use of only one cpu....we seriously need to see some major love given to modeler

JonW
02-26-2012, 06:19 AM
The next round of CPUs we will have 32 HT cores in a dual CPU box (2687W), & each core is getting slower & Modeler only uses one of them!

Cloak&Dagger
02-26-2012, 11:06 AM
The selection is ok for me here (Quadro 2000) but other things are not.

Moving a single poly on a model of around 400,000 (only a single layer visible with 41,000) is causing me real problems in 11 (build 2238), yet the exact same model and process in 10.1 (2138) is fine....

I don't really fancy the idea of going back a version to get my work done!

akademus
02-26-2012, 10:23 PM
I also turn off Color Correct OpenGL in Options Color Space. I found it slows down modeler quite a bit especially if you are working in one viewport.

quakebox
02-26-2012, 10:32 PM
Check [Vertical Sync] if it's on, turn it off, I faced a slow modeler with My Radeon card and now it's blazing fast, turn Vertical Sync off completly don't let the application to decide.

biliousfrog
02-28-2012, 03:30 AM
Just an update - LW11 works flawlessly for me, not sure what the difference between 10.1 and 11 is but I haven't got any performance problems in 11 (so far).

ekho
04-25-2012, 11:45 AM
Hey guys!

I had the same problem, so the solution for me is a custom 3d app profile in CCC (hd 7850): turn AA-mode to performance; and turn on ogl triple buffering. And voilá, thats it. As fast as before :)