PDA

View Full Version : shape on surface



bracki7
02-14-2012, 02:38 AM
Hi all!
I asked about similar thing a few month ago. But I must ask again.
Is any way to make shape (here leafs) on surface of bottle not by bump but by modeling?

http://bracki7.fm.interia.pl/thumbnails/bottle.jpg

I have to do this model and without bump I have no idea how to start.
Any help?

cagey5
02-14-2012, 03:14 AM
Hi all!
I asked about similar thing a few month ago. But I must ask again.
Is any way to make shape (here leafs) on surface of bottle not by bump but by modeling?


I have to do this model and without bump I have no idea how to start.
Any help?


would it be easier to start with a flat rectangle, model the leaves and then wrap into the bottle shape.

cagey5
02-14-2012, 03:15 AM
Duplicate post.

bracki7
02-14-2012, 04:44 AM
all right, I thought about this. But I'm not sure how placed modeled leafs on a model of bottle? By Lathe?

Silkrooster
02-14-2012, 11:09 PM
If the bottle it subpatched, you could freeze the bottle, then take the flat leave shape and stencil it to the bottle, then move the shape outward to give it depth.

Zbrush, Mudbox, or 3Dcoat should also work.

bracki7
02-15-2012, 01:34 AM
Thank you very much but I'm beginer in LW. Could you explain? Or show on some example?

Waves of light
02-15-2012, 02:30 AM
Silkrooster's method is spot on if you want a detailed, sharp mesh.

You can use the pencil tool and draw the outline of the bottle, from top to bottom. Then Lathe to create the bottle mesh.

You could also start with an eight sided poly (octagon) and bevel (or multishift) upwards to produce the bottle mesh.

To freeze the mesh, when you're happy with the contours and look of the bottle, press TAB to sub-patch the model (save a version), then press CTRL+D to freeze the mesh (and save another version). Then, in a separate layer, create the leaf mesh and use that to stencil onto your frozen bottle mesh.

Is you were allowed to use normal maps, you could also import the bash mesh into 3DCoat (or ZBrush) and build the detail onto the bottle.

Ricky.

bracki7
02-15-2012, 02:57 AM
Great Ricky,
thanks for explaining. Till Ctrl+D all is clear. I usually draw a outline of half bottle in Illustrator, then save as eps, then import to modeler and using Lathe (with 40 poly). The result was always good. But for me the main difficult things is bend a flat structure of leafs to rounded bottle. Then I probably I will use bevel to make thickness and merge with bottle. I mean I hope i can:)

I don't know how prepare a leafs mesh too. I tried do the same with leafs, I mean drew the leafs in Illustrator, imported to Modeler and.. I tried make a poly from the imported points but.. it wasnt so good.

Mayby is some way to, on ready bottle .. let say stamp the bending leafs and push the poly, which have been created, to outside? I hope I don't make so big mental shortcut:)

Waves of light
02-15-2012, 03:11 AM
Give me 30 mins and I'll try and do a quick test...

bracki7
02-15-2012, 03:22 AM
If you want make a test, do it on the right leaves. :)

zardoz
02-15-2012, 03:27 AM
well if you are new at this this is a pretty hard one to model...
I have one or two examples here
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=121779

1.I would create a polygon shaped like the leaf and do a bevel to get a nice loop.
2. subdivide the rest of the leaf so that it looks like a grid with this loop from the bevel around it.
3. Use movePointOnBG (from here
http://www.ribsngibs.com/pages/CG/plugins/plugins.html )
select a few points from the leaf and carefully push them against a freezed version of the bottle in the background. Then do this to all points, a few at a time.

well, the main technique would be this, but it's not an easy task. You can get a lot of pinching and smoothing errors in your geometry.

good luck

Waves of light
02-15-2012, 03:53 AM
@Zardoz: totally forgot about movePointOnBG... so many plugins you forget they are there!

@bracki7: here 5 very quick an dirty screenshots so that you get the idea of stencil, but as Zardoz pointed out (and is clearly visible in these quick shots) is you can get horrendous smoothing errors, so you'd have to clean them up too.

1. Bottle create using 8 sided poly and bevel multishift
2. CRTL+D freeze
3. Simple leaf shape create and stencil through Z axis (bottle layer in foreground, leaf layer in background). Quarter of bottle selected, cut and pasted into new layer. Radial Array x 4 merge points for bottle again.
4. See smoothing errors.
5. quick and dirty render.

Ricky.

zardoz
02-15-2012, 04:14 AM
waves you totally beat me!

in the attachment I have a picture of what I said before.

you can alway try pointfit, but I never used it.
http://www.lwplugindb.com/Plugin.aspx?id=b2f081fb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVMsQ4DV6WA

bracki7
02-15-2012, 04:20 AM
ok, there is a few way. Let me try and then I will show you what I maked :)

Waves of light
02-15-2012, 04:41 AM
waves you totally beat me!

in the attachment I have a picture of what I said before.

you can alway try pointfit, but I never used it.
http://www.lwplugindb.com/Plugin.aspx?id=b2f081fb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVMsQ4DV6WA

Lol, but your's looks nice being sub-d :)

@bracki7: Looking forward to yours.

Lewis
02-15-2012, 05:02 AM
Whatever method you use in LWM it's going to be very long and hard thing to do it since your leaves on bottle are very specific shapes when stenciled to bottle i.e. they aren't flat on bottle and they overlap in some areas.

I think you might be better doing this in some Sculpting programs like Zbrush, mudbox or 3Dcoat, especially if you are Lw beginner and you will need some 3rd party plugins (and lot of patience) to solve this in LW.

akademus
02-15-2012, 05:03 AM
I generally Zbrush stuff like these. Draw a mask, pull it out and polish the surface. Export and render high res model instead of maps.

bracki7
02-15-2012, 05:56 AM
Plugin "movePointOnBG" does not work on my computer. It is probably in the 32 bit version. :(

cagey5
02-15-2012, 06:13 AM
It's always worth having the 32 bit version of LW installed just to cover this eventuality. So many plugs are still 32 bit only.

In fact unless you are using huge poly counts it's generally better to run 32 bit version anyhow.

Waves of light
02-15-2012, 06:16 AM
And so begins the story of 64bit LW v 32bit LW. I have both version install so that you can use some of the none 64bit plugins.

bracki7
02-15-2012, 06:31 AM
Good idea:)

bracki7
02-15-2012, 08:26 AM
All right, I'm in this moment:

http://bracki7.fm.interia.pl/LW/step1.jpg

Any idea what next?
I can bend this leaves around bottle. And then..

bracki7
02-16-2012, 03:25 AM
OK, I maked step forward.
Look, first I bend the beveled shape around the bottle, little adjust by strech with linear falloff:
http://bracki7.fm.interia.pl/thumbnails/step2.jpg

then solid drill with Pencil option and I'm here:
http://bracki7.fm.interia.pl/thumbnails/step3.jpg

What next?
And what give me option Ctrl+D - freeze?

Waves of light
02-16-2012, 06:44 AM
I'm not at home at the moment, but I will check this out when I get back.

-sent via nokia phone-

bracki7
02-20-2012, 06:57 AM
Hello! Back to the topic :)

And what give me option Ctrl+D - freeze?

Waves of light
02-20-2012, 07:03 AM
Hi,

Sorry.. CTRL+D is when you model was originally sub-d (TAB) First picture in the quick tut above. It freezes the mesh and turns your subpatched polys into a more detailed mesh.

Ricky.

wtdedula
02-22-2012, 03:57 AM
Hello;
This is an interesting discussion because I have to do something similar. See attachments. I'm designing a couple of lunar bases to use in an upcoming simulation my company is developing.

I posted a similar question here and someone also suggested usng stencil or one of the drill or solid drill commands in Modeler. I havn't yet tried this though I need to soon. However, I am convinced that it will take some cleanup after I'm finished.

I am going to take a look at Z-brush as it sounds like it may help me do what I'm attempting perhaps easier. There is a fully functional 30 day demo which I'm going to try. It sounds like it may suppliment my Lightwave workflow. If I recall the specs. for LW11, interoperability to go between the two LW and Z-Brush is being provided. While I just started looking at it yesterday, you may want to see if Z-Brush will help you do this particular task easier with their 30 day demo.

Tim

bracki7
02-22-2012, 04:02 AM
thanks :)
I've been thinking, that maybe this is the way; I copied only leaves on next layer and now I try make some modulate thickenes maybe by bevel? But how DON'T make it from this

http://bracki7.fm.interia.pl/thumbnails/step4.jpg

this

http://bracki7.fm.interia.pl/thumbnails/step5.jpg

akademus
02-22-2012, 04:28 AM
Bevel wont work here. I would select "leaf" polygons hit e to extend and point normal move to move them outwards...

Lewis
02-22-2012, 04:36 AM
or multishift ;).

zardoz
02-22-2012, 05:41 AM
after getting what you have on the first picture I would probably clean the geometry a bit and use multishift to get a nice loop around the main shapes.

Waves of light
02-22-2012, 05:44 AM
Yep, clean up the geometry and multishift it. Watch the sharp corners for for bevel issues.

sami
02-23-2012, 09:53 AM
Bevel wont work here. I would select "leaf" polygons hit e to extend and point normal move to move them outwards...

I would try Blochi's Thickener LScript at this stage, and perhaps Boolean the result... Something to quickly try at least.

bracki7
03-14-2012, 04:33 AM
Well guys, with a great help zardoz (thank you again:)), I was able to get close to finish this job. I will be grateful for all advice and comments, what can be improved. Because in my opinion is still not finished.

http://[email protected]/thumbnails/TY2AS-PL-BU500ML-XXXXXX-V03.jpg

Generally, It was preparing by displacement map with nodes and little post-production in Photoshop (blick and color).

mikeshan
03-14-2012, 09:55 PM
If you already have the shape you want using a bump map, you could take it into layout and under the object properties and deform tab check the enable bump option. make sure your object has plenty of polygons in it for a smooth result, set the amount you want the bump to deform the object, then use the "save transformed" option for the object - it should save the object with the deformation intact.