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netstile123
02-05-2012, 10:54 AM
I currently have 10.1 and am in the debate to purchase 11 at more core cost or take that added money and purchase z brush.

I pritty much no what I get with 11 so that is not the question. Question is purchasing z brush what are some of the positive bennifits I will have?

I looked over the new fetures with z brush and the new fiber and hair. How will this be compatible in 10.1. For animation?

One thing I did see was this go z thing. It has to do with working software together and they had a list but I did not see lightwave on this list. Why is that"?

Can U animate in z brush?
I really had a hard time with character animation with lightwave. Not much on the creation of a character but the animation in lightwave and bones.

Should I focus more on another program other than zbrush.

I have my tax returns and it is burning a big hole in my pocket, What should I invest in?

I can spend about 700.00 max

Poor your input on me everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! help me spend it

steve0077
02-05-2012, 12:52 PM
Get Z-brush then you will want LW11 for go Z function. It's a vicious circle.

Carm3D
02-05-2012, 01:14 PM
Don't buy ZBrush for animation. Just... Don't.

The answer to your question is: What do you want to do?

LW11 gives you better dynamics, crowd control and more input devices. ZBrush gives you an impressive array of sculpting tools (which work best with a Wacom Tablet, by the way).

If you are struggling with LW character animation, the grass is not much greener on the other side.. At least not on the side under $700. I suggest perseverance. And maybe a few of my YouTube tutorials (http://www.youtube.com/user/carm3d). The fundamentals of character animation are essentially the same on all platforms.. Some platforms enjoy additional conveniences of better user interfaces, but the fundamentals are basically the same. So I suggest sticking with what you have if your budget is tight.

You can get away with using ZBrush and a mouse.. But it's like painting with a brick. ZBrush does add a new level of detail to Lightwave with a tool that can create displacement and normal (and painfully made colour) maps. The quality of your renders can be brought up a notch when you have ZBrush in your toolbox.

Silo can be used to make displacements and normal maps too for only $160.. But compared to ZBrush's tools it's sorely lacking.

Ultimately Steve is right.. Both are very good to have. Get the one that gives you the features you want more dearly.

RebelHill
02-05-2012, 02:10 PM
Yeah... ZB (though its got rendering, and various other tidbits) is, as an aside to another main package, reli just a sculpting app, for paint and displace. No good for animation.

And LWbones n rigs aint reli that hard... certainly no harder than what ull find elsewhere. Did u try the free autorigger?

Sarford
02-05-2012, 02:51 PM
I would go for Zbrush and a retopo tool like Topogun, gives a whole new perspective on modeling. Besides, up until now Zbrush got NO update fees. You might loose your Core-buyIn-price, but it is up to you to decide if it is worth it.

jasonwestmas
02-05-2012, 03:16 PM
I would argue that Zbrush is awesome for illustration stills if that's all you need and maybe Photoshop or another painting program. Animation? Well, you need a dedicated animation program, not just Zbrush for that. Also a program this is designed to render animation well. Lightwave does this and has many of the output tools needed for high quality animation composite. Not to mention the Zbrush navigation is not designed at all for an animator or complex scene setup.

Carm3D
02-05-2012, 03:19 PM
Never heard of Topogun. ZBrush does retopo but I've never used it. Silo has that feature too.. And I can't say enough good things about Silo.

erikals
02-05-2012, 03:20 PM
 
check 3d-coat.com (http://3d-coat.com/) (...or you might actually check out the free 3Dapp Blender)


 

Carm3D
02-05-2012, 03:21 PM
I would argue that Zbrush is awesome for illustration stills if that's all you need and maybe Photoshop or another painting program. Animation? Well, you need a dedicated animation program, not just Zbrush for that. Also a program this is designed to render animation well. Lightwave does this and has many of the output tools needed for high quality animation composite. Not to mention the Zbrush navigation is not designed at all for an animator or complex scene setup.

True, but Lightwave + ZBrush = awesome animation.

jasonwestmas
02-05-2012, 03:21 PM

3d-coat.com (http://3d-coat.com/)




Rocks an rolls in many areas especially for retopo and pixel painting.

jasonwestmas
02-05-2012, 03:23 PM
True, but Lightwave + ZBrush = awesome animation.

Yes, indeedy. LW animation works really really well with Zbrush displacement maps. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhX54lliHWE&context=C3b36b90ADOEgsToPDskKmKdp6almbnSUj2XkgxLtj

geo_n
02-05-2012, 11:32 PM
Zbrush is not for animation but its the industry standard for sculpting appz and content creation. Whether you're in it for hobby or work, zbrush will give you more opportunities to practice your skills. If you already have lw 10.1, 11 doesn't really give you much in the animation department. Its more focused on instancing, flocking particles, bullet.

Sarford
02-06-2012, 03:11 AM
Zbrush is not for animation but its the industry standard for sculpting appz and content creation. Whether you're in it for hobby or work, zbrush will give you more opportunities to practice your skills. If you already have lw 10.1, 11 doesn't really give you much in the animation department. Its more focused on instancing, flocking particles, bullet.

Exactly what I mean. I would go for Zbrush as for the amount of money you'd get a vastly expanded toolset. I would only go for the LW update if you definitely want to stay in the Core update pricing. And between you and me, I would have left LW already if I had to pay the full upgrade price cause I think it is way, way too expensive for what you get.

Carm3D
02-06-2012, 05:03 AM
I concur.. Unless he has a powerful need for the bullet dynamics, he should get ZBrush. Once he gets past the kooky interface, it will bring his output quality up a notch or two.. Think of it this way, he can do free instancing with the DP tool.. So a LW11 upgrade would only get him dynamics, flocking and 3DConnexion devices (if memory serves). The GoZ button is just a convenience.. Saving you 3-7 minutes. No big deal.

ZBrush gets him sculpting, colour, normal and displacement map creation, retopography (though I've never used that part) and a rather nifty UV-Unwrapping tool. And ZBrush's HD Geometry mode.. Very slick.

But you've got a great deal of learning to do, friend.. The bizarre and perplexing interface learning curve that comes with ZBrush.

As far as oher character animation options.. Stick with Lightwave. If you don't "get it" with Lightwave, you won't get it with other packages.. After you are up to speed with Lightwave's character tools, and want to explore other options, you still can. But for now.. Time to study up! :)

[EDIT] I am guessing ZBrush's new fiber tools will only work within ZBrush, but time will tell on that.

-FP-
02-06-2012, 07:57 AM
The power of ZBrush compels me. However, the interface has pushed me away with both feet for years. If only it had a normal interface that made sense, if only it could be switched from dark grey with microscopic light grey text to my Windows system colors with huge text, if only there were labeled buttons instead of baffling, indecipherable icons, if only this, if only that

rcallicotte
02-06-2012, 08:43 AM
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?165601-ZBrush-4R2b-ZClassroom-Movies&p=925502&viewfull=1#post925502





[EDIT] I am guessing ZBrush's new fiber tools will only work within ZBrush, but time will tell on that.

gerry_g
02-06-2012, 08:55 AM
I would wait for next Modo release (end of Feb should get a prevue) and see if they finally add any CA tools this time around and if true buy that, no disrespect to Lightwave as 11 is the best ever but Modo is the best fit for Lightwave by a long shot.

rcallicotte
02-06-2012, 11:31 AM
Did you mean "best fit for zBrush"? Newtek might not think Modo is such a good replacement. :D



I would wait for next Modo release (end of Feb should get a prevue) and see if they finally add any CA tools this time around and if true buy that, no disrespect to Lightwave as 11 is the best ever but Modo is the best fit for Lightwave by a long shot.

cresshead
02-06-2012, 12:21 PM
I currently have 10.1 and am in the debate to purchase 11 at more core cost or take that added money and purchase z brush.

I pritty much no what I get with 11 so that is not the question. Question is purchasing z brush what are some of the positive bennifits I will have?

I looked over the new fetures with z brush and the new fiber and hair. How will this be compatible in 10.1. For animation?

One thing I did see was this go z thing. It has to do with working software together and they had a list but I did not see lightwave on this list. Why is that"?

Can U animate in z brush?
I really had a hard time with character animation with lightwave. Not much on the creation of a character but the animation in lightwave and bones.

Should I focus more on another program other than zbrush.

I have my tax returns and it is burning a big hole in my pocket, What should I invest in?

I can spend about 700.00 max

Poor your input on me everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! help me spend it

animation in zbrush///forget it...at best you can use it to store poses and blend from one to another...it's not for character animation as you know it.

one thing to bear in mind...i've not paid a single penny in fees/subs or upgrades since version 2.0 which was my initial investment..this company just keeps giving free updates..

for sculpting and free form modelling it's superb..i've had it since version2, it an amazing app with brilliant tools for sculpting and painting.

UnCommonGrafx
02-06-2012, 12:32 PM
A no-brainer: get ZB.

Then, when the vicious cycle kicks in, and you feel left out of the GoZ club, update to 11.

gerry_g
02-06-2012, 01:25 PM
hello the guy says CA not sculpting, you tell him no way ZBrush then try and flog it to him, I say wait to see if Modo has CA next release and I get trashed, I use LW 10 & 11 and what keeps me using these is that modo is such a good fit for filling in the gaps

jasonwestmas
02-06-2012, 01:40 PM
hello the guy says CA not sculpting, you tell him no way ZBrush then try and flog it to him, I say wait to see if Modo has CA next release and I get trashed, I use LW 10 & 11 and what keeps me using these is that modo is such a good fit for filling in the gaps

Well I agree on the filling gaps part. Nothing wrong with that. I do it all the time with LW but with other applications. It doesn't have to be an either/ or kind of 3D world.

bobakabob
02-06-2012, 04:09 PM
ZB is a superb creative tool and the perfect complement to LW as a 3d painting app allowing you to take your models to the next level. If you hate making UVs for your models ZB makes it ridiculously easy. The hard part is using your artistic skill to create normal maps and optional displacement maps for detail in Polypaint mode. You can even sculpt characters from scratch in ZB, bring the res down using retopology tools and import into LW for rigging.The bizarro ZB interface really does begin to make sense especially after working through tutorials and there are zillions on YouTube.

Just one thing, after importing your obj LW export into ZB, just make sure to hit EDIT as soon as you've drawn the obj on the canvas. After several years this still gets me, where if you don't your obj turns into semi flat 2.5d pixels for illustration only. Then subdivide your obj a few times click into Polypaint, check whether you want Material, RGB colour and / or sculpting, select brush and alpha and you're away.

netstile123
02-06-2012, 09:53 PM
thanks everyone for you input on zbrush.

I desided to go ahead with the lightwave 11 upgrade and see how my finacial sich goes from there.

Boy the bullit thing is great and was so easy to get something going without nowing nothing about bullit. After playing for only an 1/2 hour I was breaking balls and dropping stuff everywhere. I was not sure about it at first but I am very happy I did it now. Pritty cool stuff

djwaterman
02-07-2012, 08:05 AM
I recently had to make the same choice and I chose ZBrush cos I can still use LW 10.1 and I get to learn another skill-set. Sure version 11 is awesome but it will still be around when you can afford it later. But just realize Zbrush is not an animation app, and GoZ is only applicable in LW 11, but you don't need it to work with ZB and LW. We need more people in the forums to share their working knowledge of Zbrush and LW workflow, go to the website, examine all the free videos and if it looks like it's something you would use then go for it. Steep learning curve but very fun.

EDIT

Oh, I just saw you got LW, well as long as you are happy you made the right choice.

netstile123
02-07-2012, 07:50 PM
I think it has tons to do with the price upgrade at the moment. It was still a very hard choice. I have many hours under my belt but not enough for lightwave to be considered anything other than a beginner yet. What I got with 11 should I still believe been in 10. And Still not happy I had to pay money for the options I recieved in 11. I now have a more complete 3d aplication I can focus on.
I still am going to consider zbrush but that goes with cost. Boy- If z brush threw a special right now the same time as 11 upgrade I think the choice my have swayed.......